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fisix
18th July 2002, 01:27
i searched the thread titles for a couple months, but didn't find an answer to this that was up to date, so i hope this isn't a strikable post.

i use avisynth to serve to both cce and tmpg,

is the newest version of tmpg much slower to encode vcd/svcds (i do all resizing and filtering in avisynth) than cce 2.5 or 2.64?

i've seen people opine about the use of one over the other, but mostly it refers to quality rather than speed. i am of the opinion that both encoders can generate the same quality after enough twiddling, but now i'm a little more concerned with speed.

thanks, and if no-one has tested this maybe i can obtain the latest versions and run a compare.

please post what cpu type/memory speed/hard drive speed you use if you have speed input.

thanks

-fisix (p31GHz,133MHz,WD800BB)

tiki4
23rd July 2002, 10:03
Hi there,

sorry, I don't have any benchmarks for you (maybe I should do so) but I just read your post and thought it's interesting to answer.

First, CCE 2.5 can read avs while CCE 2.6x can't. For 2.64 you have to go through VFAPIConv (or maybe LINK2) and such you lose much speed (dunno for LINK2, I don't have that program).

Then, on my system I can encode something like 1.2x real time with CCE, that means, 2h movie takes in 4-pass mode about 7-8 hours to encode to MPEG2.

On the other hand, the latest TMPGEnc (I've got 2.56 PLUS) comes with a cache function to speed up the second pass (maybe only in PLUS version). This seems to be somehow similar to the 'motion vector hints' in DivX 5 and XviD. TMPGEnc is still much slower than CCE but you only can have 2-pass at the max. 2-pass encoding with TMPGEnc takes about 5-6 hours for the same movie.

I guess, TMPGEnc can be much faster than that if it can use its SSE2 optimizations on P4 hardware. My platform is AthlonXP 1600+ (1400 MHz), 2x Maxtor 60 GB UDMA100 drives, 256 MB DDRRAM, Windows 2000 SP2.

tiki4

vortex72
23rd July 2002, 23:53
my rig:

amd2000+ at 1.73ghz(138fsb)
512mb DDR
soyo dragon lite kt333chipset
gf4ti4200

i can get up to 1.9 speed with CCE using 3pass vbr and 25 image quality(simple resize, no noise filter or sharpening etc) Of course, CCE since its doing multiple passes takes quite awhile even though its running at "1.9x" speed. I have encoded a full 2disc svcd from a dvd from vob ripping to bin/cue building in just over 5hours with these settings.

Sorry, I havent tried the 2pass VBR in tmpeg yet since I find the "constant quality" variable method to look fine. Generally speaking i think CCE gives a SLIGHTLY cleaner picture, but on a TV this is almost negligible. I typically use CCE with 4pass, 24 image quality and 2-4 noise filter with bicubic resize if i'm looking for top quality(doing these settings with saving private ryan now and getting about 1.4x speed)

Now, if you want acceptable quality with MAX speed(variable bitrate of course, since CBR is the fastest), I've found Tmpeg to be VERY fast if you use Constant Quality on the NORMAL setting. I've encoded with this setting on high action movies, and honestly, it seems to allocate the bitrate almost as good as CCE. I've encoded as fast as under 4 hours start to finish with dvd2svcd using this setting(just at 2 1/2 hours for the tmpeg part for a 2 hour movie). There are also even faster settings under constant quality like motion estimate search but i've not tried these so I dont know the quality impact.

Hope my rambling helped:D

mb1
24th July 2002, 00:27
Tmpeg is faster on Athlon XP than on P4 (even with its P4 optimization). An excessive benchmark on german dvdboard showed that very clearly.

On my system (Athlon XP 1800+) I have no problem getting realtime if I donīt have to resize which I havenīt for my DV source material ...

Depends all on a perfect system and perfect Tmpeg settings :)

Arky
24th July 2002, 02:14
Care to post mb1's "perfect" DV TMPGEnc template..? :D

We all KNOW you're the man for this...

I for one would appreciate it


Arky ;o)

mb1
24th July 2002, 02:55
I donīt work with templates. I always manually do my settings (also no wizard).

Some examples for good general "environmental settings":

- enable "prefetch video" and set to 32 MB in the multithread settings (no matter if you have one or two processors installed). Especially speeds up frameserved files.

- of course use the cache function for multipass vbr (I have set it to 6.144 MB).

- source file and end file always should locate on different hard disks (not partitions).

- set "do not use cache function by operating system to access file" in order of your operating system and in order of direct accessing the file or frameserving to tmpeg.

For computers hardware be sure that

- RAM works without errors in CL 222

- System/SDRAM frequency ratio: 133:133 or 1:1

- Bank interleave: 4 banks (only possible with one RAM module; I have one 512 MB DDR module Infineon which works perfect)

- DDR 1T/2T item: if bank interleave is set to 4 banks use 1T (which means another 5 % speed)

and so on and on ...

Also optimized OS settings (but depending on OS) I donīt want to count up now (of course use W2k or XP for more speed).

vortex72
24th July 2002, 04:30
- Bank interleave: 4 banks (only possible with one RAM module; I have one 512 MB DDR module Infineon which works perfect)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

wrong:

Bank interleaving only works if the addresses requested consecutively are not in the same bank. If they are, then the data transactions behave as if the banks were not interleaved. The CPU will have to wait till the first data transaction clears and that SDRAM bank refreshes before it can send another address to that bank.

Each SDRAM DIMM consists of either 2 banks or 4 banks. 2-bank SDRAM DIMMs use 16Mbit SDRAM chips and are usually 32MB or less in size. 4-bank SDRAM DIMMs, on the other hand, usually use 64Mbit SDRAM chips though the SDRAM density may be up to 256Mbit per chip. All SDRAM DIMMs of at least 64MB in size or greater are 4-banked in nature.

If you are using a single 2-bank SDRAM DIMM, set this feature to 2-Bank. But if you are using two 2-bank SDRAM DIMMs, you can use the 4-Bank option as well. With 4-bank SDRAM DIMMs, you can use either interleave options.

Naturally, 4-bank interleave is better than 2-bank interleave so if possible, set it to 4-Bank. Use 2-Bank only if you are using a single 2-bank SDRAM DIMM. Note, however, that Award (now part of Phoenix Technologies) recommends that SDRAM bank interleaving be disabled if 16Mbit SDRAM DIMMs are used. This is because early 16Mbit SDRAM DIMMs used to have stability problems with bank interleaving. All SDRAM modules can now use bank interleaving without stability problems.

tiki4
24th July 2002, 07:50
This thread sat idle for five days, then I posted a little bit of my unexperienced first tries and now all the cracks have jumped into the boat (over night). I'm still new to that SVCD thing and I'm still testing settings. Now it has become also a little bit of a benchmark thread (with everybody showing off :D ).

@vortex72:

When you use 'constant quality' in TMPGEnc what percentage setting do you use? Also, how about 'block noise', 'GOP structure' and which 'matrix'?

tiki4

mb1
24th July 2002, 11:04
@ vortex
You are right. I expressed myself a little bad.

What I really meant is that the combination of these 4 bios options the way I described is only possible with one good ram module.
It doesnīt work with two modules - you will get stability problems.

So please see the "only possible with one RAM module" as a remark not for bank interleave but for all 4 options.
Well, look at the posting time for a little excuse :)


Motion search precision largely affects the quality. But the best setting always depends on your source material.

- interlaced dv: highest for best quality
- progressive dvd: high
- animes: motion search fast or high
and some more

For a good graphical benchmark overview look at the graphics of this thread:
http://www.dvdboard.de/forum/showthread.php?threadid=26216
look at graphic nr. 2 which clearly shows the speed advantage of athlon xp over p4 and old athlons.

vortex72
26th July 2002, 05:06
i dont set any of those settings in tmpeg.

I just use constant quality at either "normal" or "high" and generally get very good results (no blockiness, little or no noise etc) Of course I encode my movies to look good on a TV, not a monitor. I routinely fit up to 150min movies on 2svcd's and they look very close to dvd quality on a TV. You can see the artifacts on a monitor, but the encodes still look good. I encoded "Ali" which is around 140-150minutes onto 2 svcds using tmpeg and the "very low bitrate" matrix on constant quality "high" settings and it came out very good. Still, I do think overall CCE is slightly better but on a TV, its minimal.

@mb1, thanks for agreeing with me. All to often if anyone disagrees on a forum it turns into a flame war. BTW, i'm not that smart, i just happened to have read a bios tweaking guide the day before about the bank interleaving subject and my post was pasted from that guide. :-)