RealPlayer9 : Results of test on HQ Anime Content

[bill_baroud]

hello,
i have realized some tests with real player 9, because the different comment on this intrigued me...
RM is very popular for the very bad quality of the video,
so i was doubtful when someone say the latest version was great ...


so it's here the test :

the original file is the opening of a brand new japanese Anime, Chobits, captured from HDTV.

mpeg4v2 M4C (how ?) , 848x480, mp3 VBR (170.8 +- 22.3Kbits) for 33.4Mb / 1:30.

you could DL this Op here (http://www.irradiance.net/Animation/GroupsMPEG4/wind/Chobits%20OP%20(BSI.D2V).avi)

My Resolution : 640x360

-------------------------------------
First Test : Real Player
-------------------------------------

after a great test with the 1Mbits preset VBR (10.8Mb, very clean)
i have tweak an audience :

---------------
video
average bitrate at 800, max 4000
max keyframe = 6

audio
codec stereo atrc 2 (105Kbps)
---------------

you can find the result file here (http://breizhbill.baroud.free.fr/Test_RP9/Chobit_Op_800K+105K.rmvb)

size : 8.55mb, and quality so great !
there not really nothing to say.


---------------------------
Second Test : XVID
---------------------------

because i was impressed, i have done a test with Xvid because of his great predictability of file size.

you could find my vcf here (http://breizhbill.baroud.free.fr/Test_RP9/2emepass.Xvid.vcf)

---------------------------
MPEG, search at 6-UltraHigh, I max 200,I min 1
quant at 2-7 for I and P
alt curve: Medium, 40Lo, 200Hi, auto-lrq : 30, auto-bonus bias.
---------------------------

size wanted : 7900Kb (8.55Mb - 105Kaudio~ = 7.9mb)

the file is here (http://breizhbill.baroud.free.fr/Test_RP9/Chobit_Op_Xvid.avi)

it's a little bigger, because i have leave the original mp3 VBR

---------------------------
Results
---------------------------

Comparaison : ouch, as you can see, Xvid so worse !!!
with anime contents, the more frequent annoying noise is the noise around the outline of character. IT's Not present in RP9 !!
and the colors are really uniform...the only things bad it's a little lack of sharpness ... but it's nothing in front of the other arguments.

i don't believe it, and don't want believe it ;_;
but this time, RP9 is great :/

PS:
i have do some test with SBC but for match a 11Mb-size.
the vcf is here (http://breizhbill.baroud.free.fr/Test_RP9/2emepass.sbc.vcf)
the result was not so good than RP9 but a little bit than Xvid.
and bigger (11.9mb - Xvid, 11.1mb - RP9 - 10,8Mb)


that was just my test for this evening...hope it could help the people who don't have time to play with codec but who want have an opinion ;)

just try to not hammer my web account, Free.fr is very fast to delete :/

Real One player is here (http://get.real.com/RJP1/210.172.58.21/2060082fb073fc826d21/windows/RealOnePlayerGold.exe) for the lazzy guys ;)

oups, forget my Avisynth script

---------------------------------------------
LoadPlugin("F:\DVDTOD~1\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec.dll")

# SOURCE
video=Avisource("H:\OPED_RAW\Nouveau Dossier\Chobits.avi")
audio=wavsource("H:\OPED_RAW\Nouveau Dossier\testsbc.wav")
audiodub(video,audio)

# RESIZE
BicubicResize(640,360)
----------------------------------------------

here :)

[Bulletproof]

"with anime contents, the more frequent annoying noise is the noise around the outline of character. IT's Not present in RP9 !!
and the colors are really uniform...the only things bad it's a little lack of sharpness ... but it's nothing in front of the other arguments. "

Becuase Realplayer depends heavily on post processing that's why. If you ever use some content with real detail such as wrinkle lines in skin or even some animated content that is like a high budget movie, you will notice all the details dissapear. I am against post processing.

Also RM has zero editing ability.

And requires heavy CPU time. I'm on an Athlon XP 2100 with Geforce 4 and I notice my puter chugs when realplayer is playing RM9 content, it plays the video fine but the background activites chug.

[kilg0r3]

I would really like to know if one could achive a similar quality with xvid by using a really low resolution and a soft bicubic resizer. opinions? tests? sorry, but i don't own any anime content. so can't test it myself.

[atracus]

as for myself, RV9 is really OK with movies - I didn't try it on cartoons, but after having about 9 or 10 full-length movies, I feel like I have nothing to complain on the high CPU power when it is there to provide me with visible better quality than mp4 derivates like xvid or divx5.

also, I have nothing to complain with the lack of editing possibilities: I simply don't need them, when a movie is ok I just watch it and eventually share it with friends, but never-ever re-edit it..!

that might be different with others reading here, I know, maybe having to put together different clips from their DC.... but why then not to use .ram files to build up playlists, or .smil files for *dynamic* playlists called out of a web-like index page?, that may just be cool -even quite complicated, but surely less than learning GKnot in depth ;) -

well, my 2 cents.

take care

[atx]

[kilg0r3]

i think i'd like to test it. could someone just point me to the right place for the necessary software and a simple how-to guide if there is one. thx. :)

[Bulletproof]

kilgor3 it has to be during the playback, softening the picture before encoding wont achieve the effect (Although it will get rid of noise, it wont get rid of compression artifacts which result after the encode).

I'm not totally against RM9 yet, I guess I just like WYEYG (What you encode is what you get). If someone could do a high resolution test with the Matrix with some of the frames doom9 has already in his previous roundup that would help alot to determine the capability.

I was just thinking that if it can chug my background activites (And even make keyboard output slower than I can type) with my Athlon 2100xp that it might not play back with the average users system very well.

There's also the fact that the audio codec is propriatary and you don't get the advantage of using OGG or MP3 like the avi container can.

One thing I can say for sure, in my opinion RM is the top format for streaming content.

[buba king]

Ppl the worst thing about rm is that you need their player.. it sucks soo bad that i puke everytime i see it..

1. it installes tons of spyware.
2. how can you handle all those ads?
3. it sucks
4. nuff said

i will never use rm for anything until they shape up and make it a codec and not a seperate Decoder/Encoder sheme.

[buba king]

bah.. i swallowd my pride and installed realone.. (urg) and i cant really say that the quality is that great.. it is way to blurred.. and its wide screen and the chobits raws i have are all FS. and your raw link does not work :P

[atracus]

@buba

hehehe.... sorry for your pride.... I like your posts here, and your straight opinion carefully reflects my first suspiciouness on the architecture (pre- andpost- processing) and spywareness of the Player.

well - I can tell you that if you want to make 1CD rips of full length movies with a decent audio and video quality, here is a solution.

Also, does it really installspyware,if you only useit forlocally browsing downloaded files? I can be wrong, but it doesn't seem to me....

finally, the perception of blurriness and overall quality is, luckily, very subjective. As I posted in other threads, *My Perception* is definitely in favour of RV9; this doesn't necessarily mean that this is an absolute truth, always valid for any kind of encoding. In any case, my suggestion foryou is to try to encode an XviD + OGG at a total bitrate of 730Kbits (that makes an average of 1CD) and compare the results with the same sample at RV9, don't just take samples off the sites and use themto express judgements, that may be misleading --- do it yourself on your own piece!



@Bulletproof

"my way" is to soften the .avs with Neutral Bicubic (0.5) and sharp it with the video-sharpen filter included in the RV9 encoder. results are acceptable, and often better than 0.75 in .avs & videoshapen in RV9.

Also, the only advantage I see in AVI - MP3 - OGG is the possibility to re-edit the encoded pieces; for those who need it, RV9 is NOT an option. For building a movie library, imho it is, particularly iffor some cleaniness reasons you want to have max. 1CD span.



have fun!

[atx]

[kilg0r3]

if the quality is due to post processing, i think we are about to get a far more customizable substitute from the developers of ffdshow. i know this is not quiet the same, but hey, add same blur, some light noise and full post processing to the xvid source and you will be fine too.

beside the other thing already mentioned, i don't like rm for the fact that you can customize just about none of the features of the decoder. And for some reason :rolleyes:, i don't see any free software on the horizon that might provide a work around.

yet again, there is no perfect solution, and rm may have its advantages; particularly when it comes to streaming av content. Still, let's wait for what the devlopers of the streaming ogg and xvid are going to create. :)

[atracus]

@kilg0r3

I agree. ;)

[Peters]

Originally posted by Bulletproof

There's also the fact that the audio codec is propriatary and you don't get the advantage of using OGG or MP3 like the avi container can.

One thing I can say for sure, in my opinion RM is the top format for streaming content. [/B]


It works with an external mp3 (but only CBR). No Sync pb at all

[kilg0r3]

does anybody know of a nice guide for this?

[atracus]

Originally posted by kilg0r3
does anybody know of a nice guide for this?

I have 2 tips:

1. if you speak French, http://www.media-video.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=115 is definitely an option;

2. there is another thread where I posted "my way", which is not pretty much changed since the first encodes anyway; you may want to try http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=24007&perpage=20&pagenumber=2
the point is that I don't add subtitles with VobSub any more since .smil editing is more flexible (see my following posts in that same discussion), and I "smear" the video a little bit by resizing it with "Neutral Bicubic"in AviSynth, that means 0.5 instead of 0.75 as a parameter, followed by the same "sharp video mode" whenpassed to RV9 encoder

Please ASK if you have doubts, I'll be happy to try find an anser for you!

[atx]

[Kyo]

I have downloaded the Real File and seem good from the point of view of image blockiness some blurry but ok.

I use(and really like) XviD and test this clip(the RAW) with a softenresize(0.2,0.55) and noise filters(2D+Warp), the quality is near but not the same, but, if i use ffdshow with the postprocessing i get the same or/and better image!
Also the XviD encode is more sharpen.

I like that you can test the REALLY HQ(the clip of chobits is blurry yet) clip of Soul Taker in the same server and you can see all the details removed and washed just try and share your results!

-Kyo

[buba king]

yay.. finally the link is working! time for some serious testing ;)

Got that soultaker op too. gonna test both :)


btw Anime OwnZ ;)

[buba king]

results results! ;)

Video: Chobits OP (BSI.D2V).avi
Codec: XviD 2 Pass

Filters:
Precise Bicubic
Optimized 2d Clener (t:10 x:2 y:2)
Warpsharp: 20
Filesize: 7.76mb (without audio)

If i turn on all the post processing options i cant really see any difference, Real9 seems to be alittle better in the darker part in the very beginning. XviD is sharper. I dont know.

bill_baroud, can you make a real9 ver of that soultaker op? so we can compare that one? Filsize: 10mb (+/-500kb) ty ;)

edit:
forgot to mention that i'm using the awsome ffdshow decoder!

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by buba king

1. it installes tons of spyware.List them!!! I just re-installed RealOne and I re-ran the latest version of Ad-aware and it found NOTHING.

So if yours did or someone has "documented" realone installing some, list them.

2. how can you handle all those ads?Please tell me when do *you* get these ads? If you browse RealNetwork's "free" content, yes you get ads.

The ads, though, just do not pop up because you are playing a file off your harddrive or steaming a file from a website. And, i'm sorry, they don't email spam you either. Unless you tell them to.

Just to be sure, i'm talking about RealOne here, not RealPlayer8. No, RealPlayer 8 did not spam you either, unless you told it to (i.e. not unchecking the boxes at install).

----

I'm defending Real here because just can not corroborate what you say. If you don't like Real, then it is duely noted, but don't go flinging shit that isn't true, ok? :)

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by buba king
bah.. i swallowd my pride and installed realone.. (urg) and i cant really say that the quality is that great.. it is way to blurred.. and its wide screen and the chobits raws i have are all FS. and your raw link does not work :P Hehe, I'm back!

Take a look at your FS chobits and compair it to his clip. Your "raw" FS copy is Pan and Scan of *his*!!!!! :p Not the other way around as you seem state :p :p

(yes, I have a divx copy of Chobits (used it to compair!). A friend gave it to me, who got it off of irc.)

-flavas

[buba king]

"I'm defending Real here because just can not corroborate what you say. If you don't like Real, then it is duely noted, but don't go flinging shit that isn't true, ok? "

dude.. sorry its a loong time since i last used anything from real the "realone" player is free of spyware and ads (sorry!)

But i still think everyting form real is crap. Their software is soo "closed up" that I cant use it for anything good... Their loss :devil:



"Take a look at your FS chobits and compair it to his clip. Your "raw" FS copy is Pan and Scan of *his*!!!!! :p Not the other way around as you seem state :p :p"

err.. yeah probaly.. i know.. but wher did i say that i had the orginal?

[Neo Neko]

Real's software including real one are a pain. Though real one is an improvement. One thing that has always worked for animated content and Xvid for me is to squash the quantizers and control the file size with 2-pass. For my 320x240 encodes for my dreamcast and such I have my I frames set at 1 and 6 and my P frames set at 2 and 12. If I keep the file size low I don't get any ants. There is some smoothing but it looks good on the content I do. I digitized and compressed my VHS of Space Adventure Cobra the other day and the Xvid version is stunning. Much better than the VHS! It was not a full 2 hours so I was able to keep the bitrate up for the CD I put it on. But I did another more compressed version and even it looked excelent. Especially considdering the 8 year old VHS I did it from.

I have to have editability and compatability. And while real does have comptability(Linux support! Yay!) there is no editability. :( RM9 is impressive. But I still have to go with Xvid.

BTW Anyone remember or have Space Adventure Cobra? :) Not the worlds best anime. But a good early example. Now of to do Galaxy Express 999.

[bill_baroud]

@all : thanks for your response...

this test was not a maner to say : RV9 IS DA BEST CODEC EVER !
but was just a test to see what it can do ;)
>> it's for that i haven't tweak with filter my test with Xvid...just take the file & encode ...

i have never plan to use this codec cause his closed format :/

but if a vfw codec which acts like RV9 exist, i want to test this seriously !! ;)

@buba : for the SoulTaker Op, i'm gonna to run a test, but it's strange, a friend of mine who have the R2 japanese DVD have the best result with RV9 (he have tested a lot with Xvid/divx5, but don't have satisfaction). It's him who have pushed me to run a RV9 test ;)

@kyo : the clip is blurried O_O ??? ark...i don't know what you need !

[Latexxx]

Just one thing: You can play real 9 files with Real Player 8. It just downloads some updates and after that everything is fine. No RealOneh needed.

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by Latexxx
Just one thing: You can play real 9 files with Real Player 8. It just downloads some updates and after that everything is fine. No RealOneh needed. For those people that have a phobia of even installing RP8, in an early RP9 thread, someone linked to a program that could play all "real" files as well as almost very file i think.

Think winamp, with video display capabilities.

-flavas

[RadicalEd]

Ultra Player, I dunno who posted this but I dled it. Its alright I guess but it wont play stuff with .rmvb as an extension and I dunno why everyone complains about RealOne, I'm quite fond of it, its compact and it plays smil 2.0 which is essential for 2 audio streams and subtitles.

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by RadicalEd
Ultra Player, I dunno who posted this but I dled it. Its alright I guess but it wont play stuff with .rmvb as an extension Renaming the files to just .rm doesn't hurt them at all, afaik

and I dunno why everyone complains about RealOne Me either. But, RealOne's UI is radically different from RP8. Think WinMedia player 6.4 -> 7. But mostly, I think people just want to use their own favorite program to view the files (like you can with divx).

Of course, there is the "fear, uncertainty, and doubt" of spyware, snoopware, adware, whatever you want to call it... fear of being spammed, since you have to give them an e-mail address, stuff like that... All of which are false, as far as I could confirm with "ad-aware" but you know how supersticous some people can be.....

-flavas

[Latexxx]

Originally posted by RadicalEd
Ultra Player, I dunno who posted this but I dled it. Its alright I guess but it wont play stuff with .rmvb as an extension and I dunno why everyone complains about RealOne, I'm quite fond of it, its compact and it plays smil 2.0 which is essential for 2 audio streams and subtitles.

I posted the link.