X-Box DivX Player

[unplugged]

Aaaaargh! :D

http://kustom.demented.org/~xbplayer/index.php

[Neo Neko]

Why argh? It is not going anywhere. The average joe can't use it. Only those with modded systems. But then why get an Xbox when a regular PC will do just as well if not better. Plus you can do more with the PC. :)

[unplugged]

"Console is console", plus it's harder to have entire the computer in living room + the TV...
...to watch DivX while you're relaxed in your sofa :rolleyes:

Though the real news will be to have something for the PS2 (good hardware, but especially more compact than X-Box :rolleyes: ).

[Belgabor]

PS2 is no problem. Get the linux kit and run mplayer, although it seems to have some issues, its reported to work. Playback is said to be choppy, so its not that good until someone comes up with a clever way to use the mpeg2 hardware of the ps2 for speed improvements.

Regards
Belgabor

[Neo Neko]

That and optimization of the code for PS2. That should help immensly. But my PC does just fine in the famly room hooked up to the TV. So no Xbox fer me.

[evilhomer]

let's think about this. what's an x-box?

pIII 700
GeForce 2.5
DVD-ROM
Windows CE

Something like that right? I keep thinking any day someone will make an emulator, that's even better than an emulator. That is the games will run natively on your Windows XP system. We'll see... I don't have either, but I think I'll be getting a PS2 as soon as they can play divx well (might have to wait for the PS3)

pc works fine for me too

[Latexxx]

No it is something like:
2x (read: two pieces of) Geforce 3 chip
"Lite" edition of windows 2000 or xp (I can't remember which)

[evilhomer]

that's why i called it a GeForce 2.5 (i made it up), it's something between a 2 and a 3. I'm quite certain about the Windows CE part, that is a "lite" version of windows based on the 2000 kernal, as is xp.

[mwillberg]

Well, I bought a computer that I just use for watching DVD & rips and listening to mp3s with a nice interface. Believe me, if an Xbox could do all that (even if modding is required) I would have bought one of those instead. No matter how you keep pointing out that it's just a PC, you don't get a PC as cheap as an Xbox. At least not where I live.

[evilhomer]

well there's a reason for that. if you were to buy a cell phone without service, it would cost you several hundred dollars. cell phone makers get the product subsidized by the cellular service providers. the service providers know they'll make money on a 1-year contract, so that covers the amount the phone would cost.

the x-box is the same way, microsoft takes a loss every time they sell an x-box, knowing they can make up the difference in game royalties (as does sony with the ps2)

[mwillberg]

Yes, of course, I am fully aware of that. However, that doesn't change the fact that it would have been a cheaper solution for me than to buy the complete PC. Not right now of course, it's not like the player is as versatile a ZoomPlayer+Winamp right now, but I assume people will keep making it better.

[TheXung]

If anything the graphics card in the xbox is like a geforce 3.5. You've got your specs mixed up. The xbox is beyond a gf3

[evilhomer]

I'm not so sure. If I recall I think the specs for the x-box gfx were worked on before the geforce3. I *think* the nvidia was already working on the successor the the geforce2, couldn't get everyone done on time and at cost so they made the geforce 2.5 that i referred to, took what they learned from that and made the geforce3. I think it also led to the development of the titanium series, because they learned a lot from the x-box. Of course I work for neither of these companies, so I wouldn't know for certain, I'm just recalling various articles I read over that time period.

[K-Muflage]

The xbox video card is a plain geforce 3, except that it uses shared memory and has 2 vertex shaders instead of 1.

[Emp3r0r]

tis correct, not 2.5 but 3+ or even 4-

I hope you all have seen Dead or Alive, simply beautiful

[evilhomer]

none have of us have referenced any documentation. anyone else have VERIFIABLE information we can look at? a review somewhere perhaps.

[TheXung]

er, evilhomer, this is one of those times when you should probably back down. There are many people arguing against you and no one arguing with you. There is verifiable info out there, but it's late and I will not do the research for you since I trust my memory more than anything when it comes to hardware. Notice you have not provided any documents to back up your claim.

The xbox came out for the past christmas season and so did the gf3 titanium line. Notice I said the titanium line. Original gf3 was out on shelves long before the xbox.

And dates of spec releases mean nothing. How long do you think they went into planning the gf3? It's not 6 months after the gf2 ultra. It is standard procedure to have multiple project developments in flight at any one time. Of course partnering up with Microsoft and trying to build support for a game console will mean having to release it's specs sooner than they would have to for a computer card.

[evilhomer]

i'm not attacking anyone xung. i'm going on my memory also, which I trust more than you. the x-box had to be finalized well before its release due to its rigorious release schedule. MS wanted to try to avoid a shortage like sony faced with the ps2. i will look for documentation for my side and you can look for your side. also although the gf3 was out before the x-box was, that is insignificant, as I said, the x-box was finalized sometime before that. no one arguing for OR against has provided any verifiable information. i'd like to see some, because i will soon be deciding whether or to purchase an x-box or a ps2.

[flloyd]

I've always trusted Anandtech and this is what they had to say.

Whereas the nForce IGP on the PC features a GeForce2 MX (NV11) core, the Xbox IGP features a custom designed core internally known as the NV2A. You can take the codename to mean that the integrated graphics offers performance and features somewhere in-between the currently available NV20 (GeForce3) core and the upcoming NV25 core. (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1561&p=3)

[evilhomer]

thanx Cloyd. that seems to support the gf 3.5 theory, i'll see what I can find.

[compunerd632]

Here's some more info from Tom's Hardware:
Unlike the IGP by nFORCE, which uses a graphics processor derived from the GeForce 2 MX, the Xbox's XGPU uses a derivative of the graphics processor GeForce 3. The architecture of the NV2A is situated between the NV20 (GeForce 3) and the NV25 (GeForce 4). It actually has a four-pixel pipeline and two vertex shaders. By comparison, the NV20 offers four pixel pipelines and one vertex shader, and the NV25 also has two vertex shaders. The graphics chip probably consists of about sixty million transistors (NV 20:57 / NV 25:63). This 233 MHz Northbridge chip is connected to 64 MB of 200 MHz DDR memory. Be careful, the 64 MB has to be shared with the rest of the system, as we have already explained.

[evilhomer]

great source. so that settles it, gf3+, although with less 64mb of mem... wonder if a Radeon 8500 or gf3 (or titanium) can keep up?

[Piranha]

The XBOX uses a 700mhz Celeron chip, not PIII. Wouldn't that mean you could upgrade it to a faster celeron chip, and possibly overclock it with custom bios'?

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by Emp3r0r
tis correct, not 2.5 but 3+ or even 4-

I hope you all have seen Dead or Alive, simply beautiful

I have the original Dead or Alive and unless the Xbox version has breast bounce control it is not for me. With the original you can turn the bouncing jigglys on and off. The breast bounce on the original is so huge it is scarry! The nipples alone travel a foot up and down vertically!








_________________________________________________________
"My nipples explode with the light!" - Monty Python

[grug2k]

The CPU in the XBox is more of a PIII/Celeron hybrid. And regardless, NO, you can't just shove whatever CPU you like in there, it may use some PC components, but its not a PC. ;)

The XBox Divx player will probably output a much better picture than the TVout on my PC too. But I'll probably just stuck with my PC-in-the-living-room for just a bit longer.

[Neo Neko]

I will do my PC in the living room bit indefinatly untill a good hardware player is manufactured. I have serious doubts about the Xbox's quality output. From what I have seen and been told Nvidia based cards have some of the worst video out setups. Also to do this you will have to void the warrante on what I have come to know as a shoddy heap. For every 5 Xboxs I have sold at work we get on average 3 of em back within a day or two with massive hardware failure or the inability to work from the get go. Out of the box into the trash it seems. We have even gotten whole shipments in that had no good units. I don't thihnk I am gonna crack the case and do some soldering in a house of cards. Then there is the fact that there are no games I want to play on the Xbox. Well there is one, Halo, but that is not enough to buy the system for. I waited several long years for halo to come to the PC. I followed with rabbid anticiption gleaning all material on it I could. And how it would be the first game to make full use of the Radeon card I bought a while back. Enter Microsoft. Swoop in take over the software, shatter my hopes and lock it to their monopoly box. Halo will come to the PC eventually. Hell it was almost ready for release before Microsoft reworked it. The game written for the Radeon resigned to a bastard Nvidia chipset. Ironic no? But it will never be what it was or what it could have been. And for that I will be a bit bitter. Microsoft always seems to shatter my dreams and everyone elses. And then there is the thurouoghly ambiguous fact that it is Microsoft.

Good value PC? I don't see it as that. I see it as a cheap excuse in a flashy case. This is not an attack on anyone with different opinions. This is just my opinion. An opinion that was reinforced by constant ordeals with Microsoft. I just can't play ignorant and fall into the larger scheme that Microsoft has in place behind the sceens.(aaaaaaaa conspiracy theory! Truth is stranger than fiction.) And I sugest that no one else does either.

-----DISCLAIMER-----
This is not a consensus opinion of the board. It is mine entirely. It is not to be taken as directed towards anyone other than Microsoft. We are all free beings with opinions and wills of our own. Except when it comes to Microsoft. :( They always find ways to upset me.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by grug2k
The CPU in the XBox is more of a PIII/Celeron hybrid. And regardless, NO, you can't just shove whatever CPU you like in there, it may use some PC components, but its not a PC. ;)

The XBox Divx player will probably output a much better picture than the TVout on my PC too. But I'll probably just stuck with my PC-in-the-living-room for just a bit longer.

Wasn't the celeron a stripped down PIII to begin with?

[evilhomer]

yes neo, that's correct. smaller cache amoung other things...

[Dr_Colossus]

The TV-Out of the Xbox is excellent and the divx player in its current form has very nice quality and this is without post-processing. Make a HTPC that is nearly silent supports, HDTV up to 1080i , 5.1 sound and remote control for under 250 dollars and I'll give the benefit of the doubt . The media player should support all divx versions if they port ffdshow and currently supports 3.11 and 4.12. There was also a recent addition that lets you stream divx files over a network allowing you to use your existing divx and mpeg1 collection. MP3 streaming is also planned. Now there are tons of emulators being released because of the familiar programming environment (MAME,SNES,GB,and N64). It really is good value even if you purchase a premodded box or do it yourself by using a premade PCB(~60$) or homebrew(10$). In addition, innovations have cut the previous 29 wires to solder to a paltry 9, mods that use only 9 wires also enable simple upgrading using your computers LPT port.

[Neo Neko]

That might be fine for you. But there are still major problems. Xbox hardware is very prone to failure. Solder yourself or buy pre-soldered you still have no warante. Something goes wrong with the Xbox which has happened alot then you are stuck with a $250 dollar doorstop. Other systems have done it in the past and Microsoft will do it and be in their rights to do it. I am talking about having games that detect the mod and refuse to work. Another possibility since the Xbox is a PC is the possibility of a system firmware update that could render the system useless via a system update as well. Then there is the problem that you see this as some sort of a good deal and that you are taking advantage of Microsoft. But in reality you are playing right into their plans. Plans that are aimed to put a stop to the very thing you are doing and give them control over that aspect of your life as well. Don't play with Microsoft. You will get burned.

What we need is a good hardware setup or a propper PC setup. The Xbox is just not a good solution. Anyone could make a PC just as quiet and compact. And it could be made just for digital media. No hacks and fully upgradable. Cheaper parts with more optimised software. It could be done and should be done. And I am sure it will be done.

If you want to hack and mod the Xbox that is fine and this might be for you. But it is not a solution for the rest of us that just want to watch our videos on TV. Consoles for games. PCs or hardware solutions for movies. That is the way it should be. I run BSD and watch movies on my Dreamcast. But I doubt many other people do or should. It is not for the majority of people. And an actuall PC can run BSD and play movies better.

[flloyd]

Hey Neo,

Are you using the DCDivX Palyer to watch movies? If so what kind of settings are you using? I was thinking of making some movies for my Dreamcast but wanted to get some kind of feedback on what are good settings for it. Any info is appreciated. Thanks

[Neo Neko]

320x240 is a good all round rez. I recomend you encode with Xvid for the best quality at that rez. The audio works best as mono. 22khz or 32Khz if you real darring. The latest version adds VP3 support as well. Have not tried that yet though.

The newer versions also suppor larger rez. But 320x240 is good and friendly especially for NTSC users.

[flloyd]

Thanks Neo,

By NTSC do you mean 29.97? Is NTSC more difficult than PAL even if it is 23.97? Please clarify. Thank You.

Oh and one more think what does the picture look like? Is it better than VCD or SVCD?

[Neo Neko]

NTSC and PAL differ more than in frame rate. 320x240 is propper resizing for an NTSC video to look natural. No egg heads. PAL is 352x288 I think? Little to no PAL experience here. Anyway if done right VCD quality results are very achievable in my opinion.

[69link]

@Neo Neko,

You always get political when it comes to products from Microsoft. Also you seem to always know what everybody else wants from a product.

I think you should leave your political views for a moment and look at it from a perspective "everyone else" has. In my eyes Microsoft would loose about $150 when selling an Xbox to me because I would never buy an Xbox game.

Personally I'd see a hacked Xbox with Linux as a great DNS/FTP/DHCP/Whatever-server stacked on top of eachother. Also I'd like one for a mediaplayer in my livingroom (small and cheap).

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by 69link
@Neo Neko,
You always get political when it comes to products from Microsoft. Also you seem to always know what everybody else wants from a product.


You can't escape politics. You can't ignore politics. I understand where you are coming from. We all have companies that have wronged us in the past that we will never trust again. For me quite evidently Microsoft is that company. I never said this was not my oppinion like so many people pro x-box have. I don't claim to know what everyone wants from a produt. But If you do not know what Microsoft want's you are blind to them.

Originally posted by 69link
I think you should leave your political views for a moment and look at it from a perspective "everyone else" has. In my eyes Microsoft would loose about $150 when selling an Xbox to me because I would never buy an Xbox game.


I am looking at it from the perspective of an every man. There are only minor politics involved here. Where is the politics in stating that all the returned broken Xbox imply shoddy hardware or poor construction? Where is the politics in the fact that you void the warante by modding the sys and run the very real risk of a 250 dollar door stop? And that is if you mod it sucessfully. If not it is a 100% 250 dollar door stop. Where is the politics in stating that people would be better served by a hardware system manufactured for the express purpose or an upgradable standard PC system? Even for you since you express ne desire for the games in my eyes a hardware or upgradable PC sys would be much better suited.

Originally posted by 69link
Personally I'd see a hacked Xbox with Linux as a great DNS/FTP/DHCP/Whatever-server stacked on top of eachother. Also I'd like one for a mediaplayer in my livingroom (small and cheap).

Xbox as a DNS/FTP/DHCP/Whatever server? I picked up a $25 P166 system and have it set up to do DHCP/DNS/SMTP/SNMP/POP3/FTP/HTTP/ICECAST/SMB/NAT/FIREWALL/SQL/IMAP and more. 200+ for an Xbox to do that? Why? And as for a cheap media player for the livingroom a hardware solution is still going to be better. I have plans for a small quiet P200 sys with the sigma designs X card and SB live for my living room. That way I can use the small quiet more powerfull computer in there for more important tasks.

<politics>
Buying an Xbox even if you never intend to use it for games still conceeds victory to Microsoft. The games are only a small part of what Microsoft has planned for the Xbox anyway. Companies do not look a the figures and say that little jimmy bought an Xbox to mod and watch pirated movies. They see Xbox units total sales + 1. That implies to them that even though it is not that the Xbox is the more popular system. Which means that companies will leave the more popular better consoles seeing the Xbox as being better for them. Giving Microsoft yet another market monopoly and destroying several better alternatives.

The only people I see as hell bent for this anyways are either those who refuse to encode in anything better than MSMPEG4 or those who simply pirate movies. I don't think there are many if any of us here who simply pirate. And your codec of choice is influenced by politics as well. Everyone that uses MPEG4 compliant codecs will get good support. People using Divx4+, Xvid, Sigma, and even the Quicktime MPEG4 encoder can expect to see good hardware players and support for their encoded content. It also means that people using MSMPEG4 are left out in the cold again.
</politics>

If you will read back in the thread you will read that I said this might be fine for an isolated few people. But to the public at large this modded Xbox solution is just not viable. Nowhere in that did the fact it was Microsoft enter in. If it were PS2 or GC people were talking about dooing this with I would have similar complaints.

This is not an attack on you. And I don't take what you said as a real attack agains me. Just clashing oppinions.

[69link]

Originally posted by Neo Neko


I never said this was not my oppinion like so many people pro x-box have. I don't claim to know what everyone wants from a produt. But If you do not know what Microsoft want's you are blind to them.


I know what Microsoft wants, they want what every other company wants. Money! Now Microsoft has been very successfull and have products that people buy's.

Now both you and I knows that Microsoft also wants control and does stupid things like: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/06/29/1254230&mode=thread&tid=109 , but I dont see how buying a hacked Xbox would do any harm even to Microsoft-bashers?


Xbox as a DNS/FTP/DHCP/Whatever server? I picked up a $25 P166 system and have it set up to do DHCP/DNS/SMTP/SNMP/POP3/FTP/HTTP/ICECAST/SMB/NAT/FIREWALL/SQL/IMAP and more. 200+ for an Xbox to do that? Why? And as for a cheap media player for the livingroom a hardware solution is still going to be better. I have plans for a small quiet P200 sys with the sigma designs X card and SB live for my living room. That way I can use the small quiet more powerfull computer in there for more important tasks.


Im really impressed with how you manage to spend your time in all the Forums and still have the time to setup systems like above ;-)

Seriously, I was looking at a small computer with TV-out called "Family Net c566" the other day. It was quite inexpensive and complete for about $300. But still with an XboX i'd get GFX equal a GeForce 3,5, a faster CPU and a better soundsystem. The Sigma designs X card looks promising, but still its not flexible enough. I'm thinking about GMC+Q-Pels and/or other future codec-specifics. Also the design of the box should apply to the standards of a living room, not a serverroom.


<politics>
Buying an Xbox even if you never intend to use it for games still conceeds victory to Microsoft. The games are only a small part of what Microsoft has planned for the Xbox anyway. Companies do not look a the figures and say that little jimmy bought an Xbox to mod and watch pirated movies. They see Xbox units total sales + 1. That implies to them that even though it is not that the Xbox is the more popular system. Which means that companies will leave the more popular better consoles seeing the Xbox as being better for them. Giving Microsoft yet another market monopoly and destroying several better alternatives.

... snip ...
</politics>


I see your point, but I think the market is big enough for everyone. And in the end its all about figures anyway. If microsoft wont be making any money they will either drop the product or change it like they did with MSN.

[Neo Neko]

My time does get stretched moderating on several forums and posting on more. But it hardly takes much time to set up a server. Specially with Linux. Set it up and forget it. :) That and learning computers and such with an emphasis on networking does not hurt either.

Microsoft has done what most companies have only dreamed of dooing. And we could be so shallow as to say that it is because they are a sucessful company. Just like Worldcom was sucessful till they were found out. The problem lies in the fact that most companies can be kept honest simply by the public eye. They are dependant on the public. Microsoft and a few others like them are not deterred by the public eye. They do not depend on the public. They have twisted the system so that in a sick way the public depends on them. And what is worse is that MS is not some sort of guardian angel. They are one of the biggest baddest bullies on the playground. Everything is their turf and no one may touch it. On the surface you might see no rammifications. But not only do you have to think inside the box. You have to think outside, around, through, and sideways and slant ways.

In the end it boils down to this. For the public en masse this is a bad or non viable solution. A few like yourself will do it. And that is fine. I just can stand behind this or let it be touted as a solution for everyone. I did not get my dreamcast to play movies. I did not even have to mod it to do so. But in dooing that there are still not many people who do. :) Consols for games and that is it. These guys busy hacking the Xbox while possibly a fun pointless hobbie could become ritch if they would put some of that time and effort into constructing and selling a true compact upgradable multimedia system. I would even buy then. But what they have is a hobbie craft for a super small segment of a super small segment of users. Infantessimal really. Not something that anyone should rush out and buy an Xbox in my eyes for, for sure. But then again they are my eyes.