getting to svcd

[fisix]

so i have a really big capture.avi on my hard drive.

i'm considering trying to make an svcd out of it, but
most of the guides (i've skimmed) are geared towards
dvd->svcd.

what do i get to skip since i'm starting with an avi?
should i try to find a way to get cce or just use tmpg
and find the mpeg codec that isn't 30day limited? i've
done plenty of capture to divx, so i'm somewhat well
versed in using avisynth/virdub/nandub/lame, but svcd
seems just that extra step more picky.

sigh. so i guess i'm looking for some encouragement
in a least resistance direction. i'm wishing i could
just use virdub...

thanks

-fisix

[orbit-r]

hi fisik,
i can`t give you an answer about which encoder to use (to get;) ,
but i can tell you a very easy and high quality way to do a xsvcd out
of an dv-.avi which i always use...

first me uses tmpeg.
when you got the .avi (maybe cuttet by videoediting applications) on the HD, which you want to press on a(x)svcd do the following:
-open it in tmpeg
-in the video settings tab :size480*576
:encode mode -interlaced
:video format-pal or interlaced(depending
on your location)
:DC component precision=10
:motion search precision=highest quality
:..surley mpeg2 as steam type
:cbr bitrate to what i will explain later..


-in the advanced settings tab:video source typ=interlaced
:field order=bottom field first
:now doubleclick on clip frame..
when done so a window will open which shows you your .avi now in clip frame cutt the black borgers away..when done so click on arrenge setting here you have to choose "center custom size"
now enter 432*512(for pal) 432*448(for ntsc).. now click OK..
now you can start your encoding...(surley make the audio settings before as you like it)
maybe get fitcd(a calculator for bitrate and resolution)cause here you can definite your bitrate..and my resolution suggestions are out of it....but the thing for m(and others) forinterlaced dv-source you need high bitrates to get a acceptabel quality , so the min.bitrate for me is 3000kbs,this means up to 30 mins on 1disc....

and another thing is can player handle this high bitrates?

sounds maybe complex but its very easy and good quality this way...

hope you get what i mean
orbit-r



:p

[fisix]

i think i do, though i'm a little confused about the sizes you've mentioned. i'm starting out with an image that is straight 640x480 either progressive (i've already processed it) or interlaced NTSC.

all your numbers are a little wierd, like maybe they are backwards?

your first one is 480x576.

the next two are really out there for me, i thought vcd was 480x480 and svcd was 640x480.

well, i'll read the later parts of doom9's guide, but reply if you have the time.

thanks
-fisix

[orbit-r]

me again,
the final movie sizes are:
svcd 480x480(ntsc)
vcd 352x240

the "confusing numbers" are the resizing settings,this means you resize to this numbers and later the movie will be strechted to his original size...maybe get fitcd and trie a bit in tmpeg

gruss
orbit-r

[fisix]

thanks for the reply, i finally got it reasonably right.

as of now, i use tmpg and i successfully made a couple vcd's and svcd's.

i did the final one (the best quality so far) by frameserving an avisynth script through virtualdub into tmpg. i did this because the crop/noise/trim/deinterlace/decimate processing seemed to go alot faster than the internal versions available in tmpg.

and i finally realized that i was off on the rez of both vcd and svcd.

one question, i can also do resizing in avisynth, and i bet it's faster than if i do it in tmpg. was resolution would i have to frameserve to tmpg to keep it from using its own resizing algorithm? this might be impossible as tmpg might just run everything through a generic resizer when generating an svcd mpg file.

hmm.

thanks for the help, i think the version of tmpg i have limits the bitrate, and so the max quality, so the next step for me is to try to get unlocked tools or to start trying to use cce. my fist svcd try looked horrible on my 36" tv because i didn't deinterlace the image (lots of combing). after i deinterlaced and decimated (to make a pseudo progressive film encode), everything looked alot better.


any other suggestions on getting better visual quality or faster encode times?

-fisix

[orbit-r]

So when doing frameserving i wouldn`t resize with tmpeg cause this is
slower...when you want to frameserve why do you use 2frameservers?..
this slows down...maybe you try only usin avisynth (has néar to all filters like VD) ... but what i ment before is to open the .avi direct in tmpeg and do the disered options there(i do this only for dv=>svcd conversions but get the same quality like frameserving)..
a frameserver ever will slow you down a bit..

faster speed:opening direct in tmpeg..or get cce(kind of expensive to pay for;) )

better quality:here im able to wright a lot,but i think its going to be tomuch so i give some shorts:
-never deinterlace your DV`s, when deinterlacing you will loose much quality...
-so encode in tmpeg always interlaced and bottom field first
-when frameserving via avisynth make sure you have an interlaced reasizing script..
-when resizing with VD always check interlaced...


but as i said the easiest way is open direct in tmpeg and resize,cause there you don`t need complicated scripts and stuff

gruss
orbit-r

:)

ps:i don`t know about a version which limits the bitrate??

[WarpEnterprises]

limits the bitrate Maybe you used a template? Then some fields are locked - open the unlock-template.
The official SVCD standard limits bitrate to ~2500, which is much to low for Interlaced material (esp. self-shot).
You could also try a resolution width of 352 instead of 480 (saves some bitrate if your player plays it - many do)

[fisix]

to answer, i need to use virdub to frameserve to tmpg if i want to use an avisynth script (tmpg wouldn't open an avs).

i tried using the internal processing in tmpg, and it seems too slow.

at least with the new free version of tmpg, frameserving to tmpg was much faster than only using tmpg (especially the noise filtering).

when you say DV, do you mean digital video as in the DV format? i'm almost always starting from capture (640x480ntsc) which is a different format, so possibly interlacing is less an issue with DV.

when i enabled deinterlacing i actually ended up with quite a good end product, though i will play with the field settings just to make sure i wasn't doing something stupid and getting shit frames as a result.

i will try to resize to 480x480 (maybe 352width) in avisynth to see if there is a time difference. if there isn't, i'll just resize in tmpg and keep all the other processing in avisynth.

i just obtained tmpg plus and cce sp 2.5, so i will begin to test with them to see differences. i'll try the unlock template thing (dammit i must have missed the check mark).


thanks, both of you. i think this should really start to come together pretty quick. i'll post back shortly when i have some results. i like the simplicity of just using tmpg, and i know that the quality can be tweaked to be spectacular, but i'm pretty comfortable using avisynth and tmpg has always been a bit slow.

one quick question, have either of you (or anyone else) successfully used a cdrw disk (not just a cdr) to repeatedly burn svcds onto? i've tried but i seem to only be able to get them to burn once and then the disk is screwed. might be my cdrw. might be vcdeasy. shrug.

-fisix

[orbit-r]

me again
yes i do all my tests on a verbatim highspeed cdrw...

[WarpEnterprises]

I too do my testing on rw's. Maybe try with a different erase method (no quick erase)?

[fisix]

grrr, maybe i need a new cdrw.

i finally found out why you were confused as to why i was using virdub to frameserve to tmpg. i had the following line in my avs:

BicubicResize(352,576,0.33,0.33,8,4,620,460)

and for some reason tmpg would barf on it.
when i changed it to the following:

BicubicResize(480,576)


tmpg opened it fine.

now that thats done, on to xsvcd at 480x576!! still no real testing done yet, i'll have tmpg (newest) vs. ccesp5.0 soon.

-fisix