DVD player removable subtitle problems with SVCD: could we focus? (long)

[DCK21]

Hi to all,

I propose a sistematic attack to solve the subtitle´s blues as I call them: DVD players not presenting selectable subtitles (SVCD, CVD) in SVCDs.
If you search the forums, them are plenty of theese questions and cries. (see also DVD2SVCD forum ...)

Perhaps there is no solution to the actual situation, but it could be solved. Otherwise, we could be sure that it could not be solved.

The post is lenghly. Could not be otherway. Sorry for my english, my spanish is best :D

-The hypothesis:
a) either the manufacturers are really scrappy, and the firmware is not correct. Surprisely, even Philips DVDs have problems
(http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=24843)
or
(http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=24906)
There is clear that there are faulty implementations, but ... almost all with problems????

b) either ... there are differences in the standard / coding implementation between the tools and the manufacturers and the standards and ...

-The proposal:
Let´s work on the side that hypothesis b) is right. Make what we can do to solve the problem or prove b) is false. See proposed measures (in capital letters for the less patient ...)

-Some reasoning and background:
I have been only working in getting backed my DVDs since January this year, so, I am almost a newbie in this area.
I had been learning about all areas -end to end- and using DVD2SVCD (thanks for it, DVD2SVCD the fiddler ...) as swiss knife to produce my backups. I started with submux (anonymous sw with GPL license! plus, what a horribly dirty written sw!) and continued with WinSubMux as is was launched (Thanks New_Age!). Only recent success with new DVD player and CVD subs. Do not know yet SVCDs ...

- Subtitle blues:
I purchased a Saivod 15 DVD player (supossedly, a Rowa 800 K clone), as I was interested in subtitles (I speak spanish, wish my daughters see the english subtitles). vcdhelp.com users feedback listed this player as able to play removable subtitles. Player manual said SVCD standard compliant!. Oppps! Nope. No subtitles. The player answered as forbidden to try to select subtitles. But ... was I doing them right ... was the player ...

Samples from vcdhelp.com (or vcdimager ... thanks Herbert Valerio Riedel!): PAL one is for CVD (aka China), no PAL sample for SVCD (aka Philips). There are NTSC samples for SVCD and CVD. I was not able to see subtitles, as the player continued forbidding the use of the subtitle selection key ... By the way, there have been some threats saying that the subtitle position was not good. Furthermore, can this NTSC samples be seen on PAL TVs (i.e., would the subtitles lay so down that could be out of the safe area?)

I produced some samples myself, using DVD2SVCD 1.0.7Build4 with submux, for PAL, SVCD one CVD other. Did not worked in my player (the player? DVD2SVCD? submux? the burning?)

Went to MediaMarkt (big electronic stores). Tested on: Yukai 6xx, another brand don´t recall, Philips 622. Results: Yukai hanged (needed unplug!) Other brand, no subtitles, SVCD or CVD. Philips: hanged with CVD; presented well SVCD ones (shop assintant believed me then ...)

- Subtitles blues, 2:
Changed DVD player, to a Saivod 17T (still not knowing a clone of what is) as someone (my posting pal dubbed Eto Demerzel ...) told me he had one and was able to select and see subtitles in a piece of Matrix downloaded with the donkey from somewhere.
Done tests: Player allowed to select subtitles but none appeared. Finally, PAL CVD version from vcdhelp appeared (thank God, burning was not the problem!). Another test with DVD2SVCD with CVD and WinSubMux 0.2.0.1 with Harry P. DVD: success! (later edit: changed a typo, it stated 0.2.0.2 when should say 0.2.0.1 ; sorry. DCK21 @2002-05-27)
By the way, the SVCD sample (DVD2SVCD 1.0.7B4+submux) that worked with the Philips 622 ... does not show subs in the 17T !! (but this is not conclusive ...)
By the way2, the vcdhelp NTSC samples do not show subs either. Again out of the safe area?

FIRST PROPOSAL: create a ´testing process´ for DVD owners.
I) Test samples
This would necessarily imply the production of reliable test samples; subtitles in the middle of the screen (no doubt about out of safe area); several color/backgrounds; etc.
a) One NTSC with SVCD subs
b) One NTSC with CVD subs
c) One PAL with SVCD subs
d) Onw PAL with CVD subs
perhaps also
e) One NTSC with SVCD and CVD subs
f) One PAL with SVCD and CVD subs
Now, how can we be sure about the reliability of the samples? We cannot say that a perhaps submux (or WinSubMux) is not implementing something in a different way manufacturers are doing ... or that something is working marginally. I have been unable to find the Philips specs. Perhaps if New_Age has them ... otherwise we could purchase them for New_Age, as probably WinSubMux is somehow based on submux and inherits its failures. (I have not been able to find out an author for it! any help appreciated!)
PLEASE: WinSubMux as per my experience goes rather well and we have a working and maintained sw, I am not pointing to New_Age as the culprit, NO, by any means!
Perhaps vob2sub has some culpability also, as is seems we only can test that output of vob2sub is accepted by submux and output of submux is accepted by vob2sub. The producction of the famous .dll that shows SVCD subtitles with WinDVD or PowerDVD or *DVD in PCs could be an additional help for the test procedure.

Well, we could count how many players show subs of a given agreed sample within the registered users of doom9 (this could imply some knowledge of what a removable sub is ... at last it should imply it in this forum ;-)

Perhaps this is more easy with the CVD sample. I have checked the debug file and was produced by Herbert himself. Perhaps we could ask him to produce those test samples.

I could produce the PAL CVD sample, but probably I am not the most reliable source.

How would the user test it? Well, the test sample should be in image format directly burn-able. Perhaps .nrg and .bin/cue versions? I thing that, for example, a Nero image burned with Nero is not twisted at all by Nero, but ... is it so? If yes, we could tell the users: burn this, try it. If not, your DVD is not ok. If says SVCD standard (and you tested SVCD subs), change it, doesn´t work according to standard.

SECOND PROPOSAL:
Could somebody obtain a manufactured SVCD with SVCD subs from somewhere? (e.g., Korea, Singapur, ...) We could use perhaps a sample for testing and/or sw debugging. Have not found any internet shop for SVCDs.

THIRD PROPOSAL:
Could somebody obtain some "advice" and/or info from Philips (specs, etc.). Perhaps we should build a money pot to purchase a Philips test disk or the sw to produce SVCDs or the specs. What an advantage to the consumer: try the official test sample and reject a player as non-standar conformant!!

Well, just to end, the intended message is: perhaps do have missed something, as there cannot be so many bad SVCD Player implementations ... something marginal but that makes that some readers do well other not?

Thank to all, specially those arriving further, and in any case to those allowing us to go through this roads:
Doom9, DVD2SVCD, HVR, New_Age, and so many more.

PS: I can help producing the samples. I am not able to help with code but know some that would voluntary should it be possible to gather enough information.

[jj59]

Some info on the specs - as Mozart once pointed out - are here
http://www.licensing.philips.com/ordering/soft/documents199.html

regards
jj

[Willem_1010]

Those samples really would be a good idea. I had problems with the samples of vcdhelp myself.

Finally I was able to see the CVD subs from the samples.

I noticed these are not submux or winsubmux subtitles. I loaded those mpegs in New_age's great program winsubmux, and analyzed the file. The program doesn't recognize any subs inside.

Nice topic you started here :)

Willem

[jp80]

here is the link of a very good french site about s/vcd making, and from where you can download a small svcd image with 2 selectable subtitles, this page also shows an image of what the subs should like on the screen.

[jp80]

err, i just forgot to put the link...
http://www.planete-numerique.com/Pages/Svcd/Svcdtest.htm

[DCK21]

Hi, thanks to all.

@jj59,
thanks for the pointing to the Philips page. I had in fact already seen those and forgoten ... Is the given info the only and enough thing? (I am not able to answer that).

@jp80
thanks also for pointing to Planete Numerique. I had in fact also tested the second sample (CVD subs) in my old player, but not in the new one. Anyhow, by now, it seems that my player is able to play CVD subs, perhaps other can check if they can play vcdhelp sample and/or planete sample. But, I am afraid the major current issue might be with SVCD subs.

@Willem_1010
thanks for your support also. I got surprised to know that you analised the sample with submux / winsubmux and found them not recognizable subs. I will try also and report. Could be nice if somebody else could also independently confirm ...

@the rest ...
I would really also hear something from the more experienced people.

Furthermore, should we open a poll to gauge the potential interest on the subs targeted samples? Perhaps on other forums not only in this one?

Thanks again,
(this was shorter)
DCK<-HAL

[RoopeT]

Originally posted by DCK21
Philips: hanged with CVD; presented well SVCD ones (shop assintant believed me then ...)

Yep, Philips displays SVCD subs for some minutes before they are switched off / playback problems start / player hangs ... Now do you call this subtitle support?

The problem is, it is not enough trying a 1 minute test image to see if subs are supported. The test image has to be a full SVCD disc with a playtime over 40 minutes. If the player has no problems playing the whole disc with subtitles, only then on can say it supports subtitles.

[DCK21]

@RoopeT

well ... your experience seems like more stuff for the subtitles blues ...
Perhaps the testing should be two phased:
a) shows yes/no removable subs
b) if a) is yes, then ... does it ok over all the movie?

@jp80

Just to add some info regarding Planete Numerique test sample:
- vob2sub(from submux)identifies that it includes 2 CVD subtitle streams (0 and 1), with 4 subs each stream.
- WinSubMux 0.2.0.1 reports *NO* sub streams!

@Willem_1010 and everybody:

YES, I confirm that WinSubMux 0.2.0.1 (analyse function) and vob2sub are not congruent!

Tried with both the vcdhelp samples. Results follow:

NTSC+SVCD_subs: coincidence; both report SVCD subs in stream 0, 5 subs.

NTSC+CVD_subs and PAL+CVD_subs: WinSubMux reports there are no sub streams!
For the NTSC one, vob2sub reports 2 CVD streams, 18 subs each.
For the PAL one, vob2sub reports 4 CVD streams, 4 subs each. I can confirm that, as I am able to see the subs of this sample in my player.

Surprisingly, my player plays CVD subs generated with WinSubMux, and also the test sample.

Any idea?
(will report this to New_Age)

Thanks,
DCK21<-HAL

[new_age]

Hello!

I guess these analyse things are WinSubMux bugs, I'will check vcdhelp and planete-numerique samples. As you can see I can find PRIVATE_1 streams that hold the subtitles but somehow I can't recognize the subtitles.

About my program. As you pointed out it works similar to submux. It is true and it is not true. :D
For writing my program to current stage I did a lot of things: read a lot of docs about mpeg2 FILE format to understand how to multiplex subtitles and get some info about SVCD files. (however it has now some bugs :D) I checked out almost all of the available source codes and perhaps I've debugged a lot of subtitles and subbed mpeg files to understand the causes of submux bugs (as you remember "underline problem" that is a huge bug of submux or "corrupted audio/video frames" and there are a lot of other corrected bugs). Perhaps I'm doing my job not the way manufacturers do because I didn't purchased the spec. of CVD/SVCD subs (however I think I only need CVD because SVCD is a very simple format) and my encoding/muxing is based on some 2nd hand docs, source codes, debugs etc. I've totally rewritten the program twice (0.1.x.x in Delphi and 0.2.x.x in CBuilder [as you experienced that 0.2.x.x is really fast]) and that's why my program is not just an another version of submux however for compatibility [lot of programs use submux] my program has similar command line and debug messages.

So I'll be very grateful if somebody can provide the exact CVD/SVCD specifications or provide some SVCDs subbed by manufacturers.

-----------------------

And there is an other thing that I don't understand why pc mpeg2 player softwares don't support SVCD/CVD subtitles. It is so easy to extract subs.

-----------------------
"The producction of the famous .dll that shows SVCD subtitles with WinDVD or PowerDVD or *DVD in PCs could be an additional help for the test procedure."


That's new for me. What kind of dll is that?

best regards,

New Age

[new_age]

Hello!

I've fixed the "not recognized subtitles" bug and sent the new version (0.2.0.2) to Doom9.

best regards,

New Age

[DCK21]

@New_Age

Thanks for your really fast response!

Regarding your work, perhaps I did not emphasize enough in my previous posts ...:

<public declaration>

"I imagine you have worked a lot, and most of the WinSubMux code is new. With submux I was *NOT* able to see any subs, now I am (could also be the change in player). Anyhow, I am very grateful to you and your work."

</public declaration>

In any case, I was just trying to find a different way to tackle the issue. Perhaps really so many manufacturers are not doing their work properly. In that line, I was trying to find out if any reader of the forum would have the specs and could perhaps show them to you. Or someone live´s in a country where svcd´s are sold with subs within. I am living in Spain (no SVCDs are sold in the shops), and have no access to the specs. I could only offer to participate in a fund to purchase a copy of them. Perhaps could know somebody that could help in the programming effort, but I suppose you are not interested on that as the code is not available.

Regarding the .dll ... it goes in your post already. You say

----
And there is an other thing that I don't understand why pc mpeg2 player softwares don't support SVCD/CVD subtitles. It is so easy to extract subs.
----

I have read some times in the DVD2SVCD forum that PC DVD players don´t support subtitles due to the lack of a .dll that does it ... An example:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=23515

But the best is "Mozart"´s one in:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=17579

======================================

Anything we (I) could further do for the cause?

Thanks,
DCK21<-HAL

[rchiang]

I read this thread with great interest as I am just learning to use Dvd2svcd to back up my DVDs. I checked out the Vcdhelp samples before I started on the full DVDs, and here is how my player behaved:

NTSC + SVCD sub = nothing
NTSC + CVD sub = Shows sub correctly.

In either case, the controls work fine. The sub either shows up or not, but never any hanging or lockup.

After the tests, I backed up Austin Powers 2 with SVCD sub. At first I couldn't see the sub, a disappoing but not unexpected result. However, as I was testing which function would work with my new SVCD movie by pressing buttons on the remote control, all of a sudden, the sub showed up and stay on. I tried it again with Austin Power 1, and same thing. At first, no sub. Then, as I was pressing different buttons on the remote, the sub came on. Unfortunately, it does not seem to be a fixed sequence to turn on the sub, at least not apparently to me. But, I was able see the sub after lots of fumbling with the remote.

Today, I backed up Rush Hour 2 with CVD sub, and the sub works as expected in my Apex 500W DVD player.

I don't know enough to draw any conclusion. I am just reporting my experience. I am using DVD2SVCD v.1.0.9 build 2. When I rip, I use all the default values. The encoder I use is TMPGnc 2.50.32.120, and I burn the produced CD images with Nero 5.5.7. The DVD player is the U.S. model Apex 500W. No hack has been applied yet. It still contains the DVD-ROM bug that causes random DVD skip. In my experience, this player (in fact, all Apex players I have used) handled every home-made CDs and CD-RWs without a hitch.

Hope my experience can help someone.

[DCK21]

@rchiang

Thanks for sharing your experience. From what I have read, Apex units are amongst the ones that use to be able to show both CVD and SVCD.

@all

A)

I tested WinSubMux 0.2.0.2 and *confirm* that for the test samples (including Planete Numerique one) shows correctly the subs within. (I have small doubt concerning the number of units -bmps- found; will tell New_Age anyhow)

B)

Produced a short test sample with DVD2SVCD 1.0.9B1 (I still have not gone to B2) and WinSubMux 0.2.0.1 (I still had not gone to 0.2.0.2), 1 language (192kbps), default video bitrates, 1 subtitles stream SVCD, PAL, 4:3, position 250 (almost in the middle of the TV ...)

Now ... my clonic unknown player ... *SHOWS* the subtitles without a hitch! This goes in the direction of my hypothesis.

Perhaps subs do not show correctly either if the bitrate is to high?, either is in an "incorrect" vertical position?, either what? Further testing time.

C)

I would like some help to test that sample that worked for me. Anybody can supply support for the file download, and for somekind of "polling" / gauging pages?

Anyhow, would try to contact with Doom9 and/or VCDHELP.

DCK21<-HAL

[new_age]

Hello!

About WinSubMux 0.2.0.2 vs. vobsub:

I'Ve tested the samples mentioned above:

1) NERO_SVCD.mpg
2) SVCD_DEMO.mpg
3) test_svcd_ntsc.mpg
4) test_svcd_pal.mpg

1) no subtitles
2) Stream #0, CVD style, 5 subtitle(s); Stream #1, CVD style, 5 subtitle(s)
3) Stream #0, CVD style, 19 subtitle(s); Stream #1, CVD style, 15 subtitle(s)
4) Stream #0, CVD style, 5 subtitle(s); Stream #1, CVD style, 9 subtitle(s); Stream #2, CVD style, 9 subtitle(s); Stream #3, CVD style, 5 subtitle(s)

vob2sub always detects less subtitles (never extracts the last subtitle)

I've checked the subs with my DVD player (Grundig GDV-130 [some kind of daewoo clone]) and I discovered that in the third sample (test_svcd_ntsc.mpg) my player didn't show any subtitles.

I've extracted the subs and remuxed the file with TMPGEnc and then loaded the extracted subtitles files into WinSubMux and than I realized what is the problem. The subtitles are out of the 720x480 movie window!!

Great! How many people had tested this sample and figured out "hmm my player don't show CVD subtitles..."

Do anyone know how to contact vcdhelp.com that their "test_svcd_ntsc.mpg" sample is bad?

best regards,

New Age

[Willem_1010]

Nice founding New_Age. Noticed myself the samples on vcdhelp.com were not that good. I could see the subs, but lucky me, my television lets me scroll the picture up and down. They are much to low and the font quality isn't good either.

Contact info of vcdhelp.com you find here:

http://www.vcdhelp.com/contact.htm

Willem

[jj59]

@ NewAge
did you also check the teststreams on HVR'page
http://www.vcdimager.org/pub/vcdimager/examples/test_svcd/
these are cvd subs
HVR made also a teststream with svcd subs available here
http://www.vcdimager.org/pub/vcdimager/.testing/

jj

[DCK21]

Hi all
seems that I was not misled from the very beginning ;-)

Anyhow, attention!
vcdhelp test samples are not different from vcdimager org ones: vcdhelp links point to vcdimager organization.
vcdimager.org has already been contacted.

Lets see the evolution.

Thanks all, specially New Age!

@New Age

In Planete Numerique there are *two* test samples. I think only the second one has subtitles ... Are those 1) and 2) in your post?

DCK21<-HAL
(probably a Kohai looking for is sempai)
http://www.aibudo.com/Sem_Koh/Sem_Koh.html

Thanks again

[new_age]

Originally posted by DCK21

Anyhow, test samples are not hosted in vcdhelp but in vcdimager organization that has already been contacted.


You mean you wrote them a letter?


@New Age

In Planete Numerique there are *two* test samples. I think only the second one has subtitles ... Did you tested the first one?


1) NERO_SVCD.mpg
2) SVCD_DEMO.mpg

These are from Planete Numerique.

[DCK21]

@New Age

a)
sent a mail to somebody there, got a request for further info.

b)
vcdhelp also hosts a NTSC sample with SVCD subs. Did you test it also?

c)
is the answer to seeing my zip in this thread?

Thks,
DCK<-HAL

[new_age]

Hello!

Also checked out "svcd_ogt_test_ntsc.mpg" from vcdimager.

vobsub and WinSubMux give you the same result:

Stream #0, SVCD style, 5 subtitle(s)

So it seems that vobsub has problems extracting only CVD style subtitles.

NA

[new_age]

Hello!

About your zip: I've only tested the vobsub vs WinSubMux subtitles info. And vobsub and WinSubMux gives the same result about subtitle count.

I'll check the bin/cue about mpeg errors you've mentioned.

However I can't check the subtitles because my player supports only CVD style.

NA

[new_age]

Hello!

I've discovered something again! It is possible a good news for others too.

Till today I believed that my player (grundig gdv130) can play only CVD style subtitles but I watched DCK21's svcd sample with svcd subs and suddenly they appeared on my tv screen. I examined DVDSVCD log and discovered something.

If I create SVCD with VCDIMAGER than my player shows SVCD and CVD subtitles. If I use VCDXBUILD my player can only show CVD style subtitles.

Do anyone know what is the difference between these two methods?

best regards,

New Age

[new_age]

Disabling PBC doesn't help me. :(

NA

[x-ieje]

Ok

At first i was only able to see CVD subtitles on my Hiteker 600
but thanks to New Age i have created an SVCD with VCDIMAGER
and now my player show SVCD and CVD subtitles.

Now i would like to have both subtitle-types in one movie
so that you'r able to select SVCD or CVD (if that is possible?)

So how do i do that since DVD2SVCD only alows you to select one
type ?

If it is possible then a lot of problems would be solved for
a lot of DVD players since both type are present..

X-ieje

[DCK21]

@x-ieje

I)
You can do it manually.

I am not such an expert to give a perfectly tested thing,
(I am always saying I have to do it ... also to test multichannel pmeg sound .... etc.)
but:
a) it is posible for sure
b) aprox steps are:
- get your .mpg file (take care of not being too big so when it fats with subs still gets into the cd
- get your desired subs and sub file
- mux with .mpg with WinSubMux (allows you to mux SVCD streams and CVD streams!)
- generate an image (vcdxbuild ? vcd what?), I never remember (do not skip this step, otherwise if subd do not appear or the svcd does´n´t work you would never know if it was your burner , if you use the burner to generate a svcd from an .mpg ;-)
- burn the image

II) Join my requests to DVD2SVCD ;-)

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=26183

[new_age]

Additional info:

1) my player doesn't play CVD subtitles if the first subtitle stream is SVCD (I've not tried what happens if the first stream is CVD and the second is SVCD)

2) the image should be created with vcdimager (NOT with vcdxbuild) because as you wrote svcd subs appear when you use vcdimager

regards,

New Age

[DCK21]

As I just reread again, as Bach says, some points are old news, as can be read in the thread from 11 till 16 March this year in

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=19985

Thanks,
DCK21<-HAL

[borndevil]

:o

Hey, I can't have subs just in one style (cvd OR svcd), and you're talking about have both... you're lucky.
Well, in fact I have a Philips 722, as Philips owners know, with new firmware I was able to solve many issues but subs.
I'm sure there's nobody know a way to have subs working for Philips player, and do you know why?
It's a firmware bug.
So, if you have a player that doesn't display subs using...
- I-Author (cvd)
- DVD2SVCD
- Submux or WinSubMux
...you're not lucky. You must wait an upgrade.
I start to think these programs are the only way to have subs AND they work well.
Problems are in our players!

[DCK21]

@borndevil
well, I agree we are luck cause our players are able to play both SVCD and CVD. But it is not only luck, it is also some work. I changed my first DVD as this was not standard compliant. If it says SVCD, it must show selectable subtitles ...
@all
So, there *are* crappy players out there. But the starting point in the subs "world" seamed to be ´players able to play selectable subs are rare ...´. Now it might be not the case. This was/is the motivation of this thread. Fight that meme!

Now, we need:
-Open people eyes. How many badly reported units are in vcdhelp? (we already know all test samples there are not correct)
-Have available good test samples and removed bad ones. Problem is that we have none "official" one available or a commercially sold subbed SVCD ...
-A well tested standards compliant subs muxer. I think WinSubMux goes in the good direction; but compliance is tested agains players, not against "official" test samples; From what I have heard to HVR *the solution* is to mux all together video, audio and subs. Muxing the subs at the end generates some bad frames (if you analise the muxed stream you can see that). Perhaps we have a timing problem (the subs packages are arriving to late in the stream, and the player is not able to show them as PST has already gone ...)
Packaging is suboptimal, bitrate perhaps is not compensated taking into account the subs ...

@borndevil
... by the way, I seem several posters of you with different trials, did you tried to lower max. bitrate? This has already unsucessfully been tried by RoopeT and Zoltan (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=20709) but this was with submux. Perhaps WinSubMux helps? Do not forget that the image should be created with vcdimager (NOT with vcdxbuild)!

So, Philips owners, an small but important change:

"Problems are in our players!" should be "Perhaps problems are in our players!", I still see a chance.

@all
Just to end, for those who migth be in an apropriate timeframe: if your dvd player is not able to show selectable subs and the manual says it is able to do SVCD, return it and recover your money as it is non standards conformant!

Best wishes, HTH,
DCK21<-HAL

[borndevil]

Thanks to reply, Dck21, but I worked so much in the past.

I tried with RoopeT everything, including bitrate, timeframe, other tricks, swapped bad bmp with another, different programs for create (Maestro SBT, Subrip, Philips SVCD Toolkit (!!!!!)).
No luck.
I can assure that subs when displayed are very nice, but after some minutes they turn off, or plyr show garbage.
I though it was someting in bmp... no.
I though was timecode... I tried to shift the bmp... no.
I tried to use hh:mm:ss:ff instead hh:mm:ss:ss/100.
In this case, player shows garbage but freeze for a while and re-sync, no turn off. But it's bad.
I tried another .mpg with same sub: in same spot... garbage.
I tried SBT Maestro. The wrong spot is shifted...

So:
We know isn't the mpg file.
Isn't the time bmp is displayed but timecode format creates different result.
Isn't a bad bmp.
Different result with different programs that create bmps.
Vcdimager or vcdxbuild is the same on my plyr.

My impression:
- buggy muxer: it can be, but what about Philips SVCD Toolkit??
- player can handle just a fixed rate of consecutive substream... if we use a different program, bmps are different and player locks subs in a different spot.
- firmware is buggy 'cause SVCD subs aren't required for most users of a standalone DVD (many people ignore what's a SVCD) and there ins't research in that way.

Now, I can return my DVD to service, but... guess...
I can't return my DVD to store, 'cause I can't do it after 10 months.

However, in all the world there's just a program for muxing subs, and is submux and another based on.

How can we be sure on where's the problem?
We can't.

I just hope, just I can't try other solutions.

[DCK21]

@borndevil
I have seem several posts of RoopeT and some yours, I knew you had worked hard. As said, for sure there are crappy players out there. Perhaps yours is one.

Should be so frequently the players fault, how is that one clone of unknown brand as mine is able to play both? Probably there are two or three "DVD chipsets" (a´la Zoran Vaddis) used by most manufacturers. Some play subs, some not. And Philips (specifier of the SVCD subs) fails here? Don´t they have the specs? Don´t they have the test samples?

but
-------------------------------------------------
quote:
My impression:
- buggy muxer: it can be, but what about Philips SVCD Toolkit??
....
-------------------------------------------------

From things I read in vcdimager.org I understand that the muxing is a real problem here. It is not my knowledge nor something I can probe, but is from good source. Directly, not a friend of a friend ... It should be muxed video, audio and subs together.

Philips SVCD Toolkit? Anybody obtained results with this?
I downloaded it but I was unable to use it as without registration you cannot do real things. (well I tried with a certain Philips SVCD toolkit as I was trying to put stills in svcds, I think it is the same (?). Hopefully I am wrong, as ...

if somebody has it, and works, she/he could make test samples!! ;-)

So we could get rid of the Hamletian question, to sub or not to sub, that´s the question! (i.e., the player or the sw, How can we be sure on where's the problem? )

Anyhow, have you tried with WinSubMux?

Thanks again,
DCK21<-HAL

P.S.: we in Spain have a law that defends consumers that we could translate as "defective manufactured goods consumer defence act", if a product is defective you have *five* years to ask the manufacturer / importer / seller a solution. Tipically difficult to exercise at courts but manufacturers are sensitive to this kind of claims if you *really* press them :devil:.

[borndevil]

Thank you.
Philips Toolkit, as RoopeT reported me, doesn't create working subs on a Philips player!!!!
Toolkit I think respects SVCD subs specs, so....?????
I couldn't believe it...!

However, I tried WinSubMux (great) but problem is still there.

[x-ieje]

He guys

Does anyone know were i can download
I-author ??

Thanks:D

[DCK21]

You can try to find [this so said buggy crappy program that, as it is
not sold outside the manufacturers country can only be used illegally out of that country (not my words, just cite wise people)] in google, perhaps you get a hit if you try the following query
"i-author"+enreach+download+SVCD+menus+kELU

otherwise try
Sony+Matsushita+JVC+purpleman+divx

or just in case
"I-Author"+Deluxe+SVCD+"1.0"+Limit+Remover+Bearson+Bitrate+Calculator

You know, thee who look (in google) find ...

You know, only paying Enreach and living in their country allows you to use it. Perhaps you can de-compile it for "compatibility reasons", that depends on your living country ;-)

DCK21<-HAL

[hafan228]

Here is my experience:

1. NTSC + SVCD subtitles + PBC Use Selections(under CD image) = subtitle does not work.

2. NTSC + SVCD subtitles + No PBC(under CD image) = subtitle works but DVD chapter does not work since NO PBC is selected.

So the subtitle does work with Apex model, if someone can figure out
why it does not work with "PBC Use Selections" this will solve problem
that many people have. Maybe there is some bug in the DVD2SVCD program
, can some expert look into this problem?