Avisynth wrapper released (now you can open avs in CCE, Premiere , Ulead....) [Archive]

edwinvaneggelen

8th May 2002, 20:03

> btw3: I guess you are in violation of forum rule number 5: Do not spam. No blatant advertising.
May I ask were this agression comes from. If you can see in my first post, I also released a new version of avisynth and annouched it. Is this what I get for all my work ? Many people asked for a tool like this. You can think what you want, but I invested a lot of time and money (yes, the donations do NOT cover the hosting costs) in this tool, so I do not think a reaction like this is fair......

>>4) it has a bug which asks for registration in the same day of the installation, otherwise it will not work anymore...
I just checked it on both my systems and could not find any problem. Above all, I checked the code with a debugger and could not find any problems.. If I do I will fix it...

>btw2: IMHO, once you have implemented your software as a shareware, this 5 fps limit is a bad thing. How could someone realize if worth to pay for it, since this someone cannot test if it really works like it claim?

As mentioned when you start the program, this limitation of 5fps is for files longer than 30sec. So if you want to test it, use streams shorter than 30sec.

tmpy222

8th May 2002, 20:30

Hi,
Just tested the wrapper. It's much like VFAPI reader which converts vfapi files like tmpg's tpr files to avi files. Couldn't test the speed of wrapper since the obvious shareware limits. But if it only lets users test at 5fps, it's probably better and faster to load avs file into tmpg and export to tpr then to avi file...
Also found a couple of bugs. Wrapper doesn't seem to work with cce 2.64 sp. 2.62 works fine. When using raw audio mode, it doesn't seem to attach audio to the avi file. Media player shows that avi doesn't contain any audio...

Anyway, the program seems to be a good idea. But people have to see how fast it is.

Thanks.

tmpy222

8th May 2002, 20:57

Actually, you can directly convert avs to avi using VFAPI reader... No need to use tpr file. So basically, wrapper is exactly like vfapi reader except vfapi also reads d2v, aup, tpr and other vfapi files.
I just did some speed test with avs and avi converted using vfapi. It seems that vfapi is around 30%-35% slower than straight avs. If wrapper can do better, then it's worth another look...

Thanks.

edwinvaneggelen

8th May 2002, 21:48

>If wrapper can do better, then it's worth another look...
I could not notice any difference in speed between a normal avs and wrapped avs. I designed the program in such away that is has almost no overhead. But as some people thing that I am commercial I suggest that you check it your self with streams shorten that 30sec.

>Wrapper doesn't seem to work with cce 2.64 sp.
Are you sure that you have the right "bug fix". It is an common problem with 2.64 that it hangs while it starts encoding. But this also happens with "normal" AVI streams.. Did you check if the program works O.K.

P.s. If you enable RAW audio, the decoded data is written into AVI file. As I never had any problems with this, could you please verify your problem and let me know what you exactly did.. If I can reproduce the problem I can fix it..

tmpy222

9th May 2002, 00:55

ok. Raw mode has problem with this avs file.

loadplugin("mpeg2dec.dll")
video=mpeg2source("movie.avi")
audio=wavsource("yougotmail.wav")
audiodub(video,audio)
crop(0,58,720,360)
...

Playing this avs in media player, it gives sound. and avi converted using vfapi also works.

About 30 sec clip, I think it's really too short to do any speed testing. Actually, I did a short test. It wasn't much faster than vfapi reader...

Thanks.
PS, you're right. 2.64 is messed up. :)

BBWoof

9th May 2002, 03:19

I've been waiting for Edwin to release link2 for quite a wile. I've used it already to create SVCD from my capped video with cce 2.62 without raw audio selected and it worked great, and was slightly faster than opening a straight avs file in cce 2.50 on xp using the win2k compatibility tools.

For me it works great Edwin, and I really appreciate your work. Please keep it up.

BBWoof

Blight

9th May 2002, 08:34

edwinvaneggelen:
Just a side-note. If you have a popular program out there, and want to offset hosting costs, Ask for Help.

In my own case, when developing Zoom Player and DVD Genie, I can not afford to host the actual files on my server as they would cause massive traffic.

However, people out there will help with bandwidth if your project is high-profile. I don't think hosting cost for the release files should be a major issue for you. If this costs you money now, take some action to reduce this cost.

As for hosting your actual site. I'm not sure what sort of traffic you're getting, but there are some decent hosting sites out there that are not that expensive.

avih

9th May 2002, 10:16

@blight: check your PM.

avi

Eyes`Only

9th May 2002, 21:13

Hosting costs are nowhere near $35 a head, so it seems this is blatant exploitation while offering excuses. Games are about that much, and they have a lot more coding/programmers involved.

If you want, I'll 'host' your domain for $30 a head, how's that? You'll save money, right? Didn't think so.

A cost of $5 might be appropriate, maybe even $10, but I doubt it. If as many people use this program as there are using vfapi now, you'll still get rich, and you'll be a decent guy to boot.

Reply to this all you want, I've said my piece and I won't be coming back to view this thread anymore.

Eyes`Only

-sick of the greedy, fan of the needy.

edwinvaneggelen

9th May 2002, 23:04

>Games are about that much, and they have a lot more coding/programmers involved.
Most shareware programs costs around 20-25$. I only ask 15$ for ALL my programs. Even Avery thinks that his virtualdub is worth 30$...

P.s. I do NOT know what kind of games you buy, but all games that I bought costs more than 15$... (I also hope that they will sell more that 100 of their games)

Hosting costs are nowhere near $35 a head, so it seems this is blatant exploitation while offering excuses.

Yes, I had 4 hosts like that. They all claim the same. But as soon if you use 1GB or more a day, they become very nasty and close the site with all kind of excuses. It is as simple as this.

Above all, I am tired of defending my self. What do they expect, that I search every day for a cheap host. Make my own backups, run after these guys when somethings is wrong. These times are over. Now I just take a good but not cheap host.

If you think that you only have hosting cost your are wrong. Did you ever try to receive money by the internet. I think it is a bit more complicated than you think. You also forget taxes and a lot more other issues...

Last time I released a new version of avisynth and got all kind of shit. This only because I linked some obj file (that were public) static. But because I made those objs and not Microsoft, I got a lot of nasty mails. (The original avisynth does the same thing with obj of M$) This was my main motivation to stop working on avisynth for a long period. I was really fed up with it.... Now I just put all code in a plugin. It is not user frendly, but he, it is GPL compliant...

edwinvaneggelen

9th May 2002, 23:22

However, people out there will help with bandwidth if your project is high-profile. I don't think hosting cost for the release files should be a major issue for you. If this costs you money now, take some action to reduce this cost.

This would be an option. But then I am very dependant of those people. I tried many options is the past, but the all needed a lot of attention. Till now I found one very nice guy who is willing provide us a server. Currently we use his "private" server to host our sample streams.

int 21h

10th May 2002, 01:41

I will have a link to a crack posted for this soon to remove the lame limits.

dividee

10th May 2002, 02:53

@int 21h:
Please refrain from posting that URL here. You don't want to break the forum rules, do you ?

int 21h

10th May 2002, 03:15

Oh.. I can post byte offsets and data to patch them with though.

Blight

10th May 2002, 04:21

edwinvaneggelen:
I've been using 3rd party hosting for downloadable files for 3 years now. It works, and my content exceeds 1gb/day.

The idea is to have 2-3 FTP accessible HTTP servers which you can upload directly, then have doom9 host it 1-2 days later and other sites will follow.

I'm currently using 4webspace.com, it's run by Terabyte, very reliable, my own Raq3i server, 100gb/month bandwidth, 10gb disc space running Cobalt Linux. Not too expensive, I'm not sure how much money you get by donations, but it may cover it.

But once again, since you host your forum at delphi and can post the downloadable files elsewhere, you can seriously cut costs.

I'm not sure how many people register at $35, but I can tell you from years in this field that this amount is unreasonable. You can get a lot more people aboard by adjusting it to a more reasonable rate.

philippas

10th May 2002, 09:44

I think the 30sec limit is very unreasonable.
All commercial software give at least a couple of minutes of recording time. I understand that you want to cover your costs and make some money also but in this way you are forcing people to crack your program.
If you pay for the licence 15$ for how long the program works?

oddball

10th May 2002, 15:53

Make it opensource *GRIN*

edwinvaneggelen

10th May 2002, 18:29

Humm, strange forum rules. It seems to be a cracker forum..

Why was software expensive.. Oh yes, because only a few people buy it... And not to forget, why did ben stop programming on Avisynth. Uhh, what was it oh, yes. He had no limitations... But still no one gave him some money for his
work..

Start writing your complaints for the next release of my tools.
You can bed that have more limitatoins. If you release a crack, it is just
a sign that I need to invest more work in protections..

Anyway, I just released a version that contains several bug fixes.
One should solve the trial period bug. If you install the new version
the program should work for an other 30 days..

philippas

10th May 2002, 19:19

@edwinvaneggelen
First of all i don't intend to crack you program i can leave without it. Also i don't encode to (s)vcd my only interest in your program is for streaming, maybe feed the avs script into windows media encoder.
I understand that you want to gain some money but give the chance to people to try your program first, the limitation of the 30sec is very unreasonable.

j77

10th May 2002, 19:40

:mad: All I wanted to say that it is UNFAIR to treat people who do work for the Divx community like that.

Fine, are you that bothered by the software limitations of the programmer, you want to crack it for yourself, do it if you are ok with your conscience. But why do you have to make it public? to take credit for your work - wait what work would that be? cracking someone elses software. IF we were talking about a multi-millionaire who had sucked $$$ of all of us then maybe -maybe- I would understand your actions. But here we are talking about some guy who was doing this b/c he actually LIKED it and wanted to share it... and just b/c he can't handle the cost of all of you and us to download his free programs, he thought he had to do something to cover the costs.

I mean fine he does it for free... b/c he likes it... but WHY should >HE< pay so that we get it for free?

What Angered me MOST :angry: was the AUDACITY and RUDENESS with which some of you treated edwinvaneggelen. I mean come on ppl. if it wasn't for Avisynth most of us would still be encoding at 4 fps.

Is this the Thanks and SUPPORT we give him? :confused:

Jesus, the least you could all do was to SHUT UP and say nothing and do whatever you like. but to flat out spit him in the face?

J

PS sorry but i had to say all this.

dividee

10th May 2002, 20:23

Of course I would have preferred if Edwin released that Open Source. But it's his right to go the commercial way. I also feel the limitations of the unregistred version too restrictive, but he is only hurting himself this way.
If someone wants to duplicate the functionnality of his tool Open Source, he is free to do so.

So, please don't post any crack; I'll edit it out and give a strike to the poster.

int 21h

10th May 2002, 22:46

Avisynth was free. Avisynth is still free. Edwin has taken concepts he has seen demonstrated in other open source applications and encapsulated those same principles and techniques into a closed source application with an outrageous price.

So you know what Edwin? I see your bet and raise it 50. I'll release a crack for your program AND work on my own implementation of this same thing, (Psuedo avi files in YUV via Avisynth) and then, I'll GPL the whole works.

Edwin isn't having you register his programs to cover his hosting costs, Edwin is having you register his programs so that he can get paid for his time, you know, the same time Avery, nando, Gabest, avih, etc all charge us $35 an application for.

This is exactly the same self righteous attitude you presented us when you violated the GPL with your previous Avisynth releases.

Eyes`Only

11th May 2002, 00:12

[QUOTE]Originally posted by int 21h
Edwin isn't having you register his programs to cover his hosting costs, Edwin is having you register his programs so that he can get paid for his time....

Exactly. This isn't a price to cover costs of hosting, this is a blatant attempt to make a big profit with inflated prices. You want to tell me he's 'doing this out of the goodness of his heart'? Not likely. Since he even said he found a buddy to do it, you know he's not being charged much. It's just an excuse to charge a higher price.

Anyone that knows the system knows that he could easily give this out FREE to many people, they would distribute it among others, some websites would make it available for download on their own, and he wouldn't have to spend a dime. And he would get major props/recognition for his contribution and possibly picked up by a good corporation for demonstrated skills.

The creator of the Flash project "Fight.swf" didnt charge people to see his full flash video. He put it out and it just got sent around everywhere because it was THAT GOOD. Now he makes big $$$ because another company saw it and decided he was worth an investment. And to top that off, he still makes new fight videos in his spare time.

Cut the bullshit, quit the exploitation. One word to sum it up: *KARMA*

avih

11th May 2002, 04:10

i think everyone can charge as much as s/he likes for software that s/he plan and code and/or set up any suitible license. i also think that it's too much money, and 30 sec is really not enough to evaluate it (although some may think otherwise), but starting flamming him for charging too much.... not my cup of tea. if you're not interested in paying so much, just don't download it.... or write something similar yourself. no need to get angry. even ppl that write completely open and free software need some money to live ... he's decided it's the right time to start charging money.... that's his decision. and he may change it in the future (refunds?? ;) )

cheers
avi

BBWoof

11th May 2002, 08:14

And I used to like doom9's forum.

j77

11th May 2002, 09:56

In order to be on the right side, I too agree that the cost is big, and that the 30 secs is too little. Personally i won't even try it.

And why buy something that I haven't tried and seen that it does the job for me? IMHO he has put a very near expiry date on the product. But it's his right to publish it as he wants.

Now, if most of the code and ideas are not his and all he does is just know hot to put the pieces together (as some iplied) then , he still has the right to charge for knowing how to make all those little pieces work together.

I will agree with the "KARMA" and I will add that time will prove one side wrong.

J

int 21h

12th May 2002, 00:19

Part one of my bet is done. A blackhat associate has finished the dirty deed.

edwinvaneggelen

13th May 2002, 13:48

>Now, if most of the code and ideas are not his and all he does is
>just know hot to put the pieces together (as some iplied) then ....
Can anyone tell me where I took the code from ? This is bullshit, I wrote every line of code.

Is the idea new ? You can argue about it, but adding extra input formats to existing programs is not an new idea. It is known that this can be done on several ways.. IMHO I did NOT copy an application..

About the 30sec limit.
You try the program with any length of streams. But if you use streams longer than 30 sec, the speed is limited of 5 fps. I did not design this program for ripping DVDs. The program is designed to import additional formats to e.g. Premiere/Ulead. This could NOT be done in the past. You can test the program and see if there are annoying bugs, and if it can do what you want.

The program is not about speed. I can imagine that some people want to use it to speed up their DVD rippings. But it is designed to import small pieces of captured data.

It seems that many people want to express the frustrations about the fact that I asking money for my programs. But till now I only saw complaints. No one says thanks for fixing bugs in Avisynth. No one notices that I am spending time and money on Avisynth project that I urn with my other tools.

So my real point is: Why should I continue to put effort in the Avisynth project while I only get these kind of insults... You can image that this is not very motivating to release more free software.. Why should I write applications for people who only complain.

Oh, I almost forget. The fee that I ask is not for a single program. The fee is for ALL programs that I created till now.. So 15$ for both the video server and the link2 tools for far below the average of shareware programs.

int 21h

13th May 2002, 13:59

Originally posted by edwinvaneggelen
So my real point is: Why should I continue to put effort in the Avisynth project while I only get these kind of insults... You can image that this is not very motivating to release more free software.. Why should I write applications for people who only complain.

Why does gabest put in his effort into VobSub? Why does Derrow spend so much time working on IfoEdit? Avery has spent many many hours working on VirtualDub and its new engine... why? Why do -h and koepi and nic all work on XviD? Why does avih work on XCD?

Why is it that no other author in the entire scene is trying to make money with his/her 'contribution'? Are you trying to tell us that they are all doing something wrong? You are the only right one? Or you do think perhaps its the other way around?

Ookami

19th May 2002, 14:50

Whoa... What a thread...

I know, most of you waited that I comment with my perfect english :D .

1.) IMO, the first post was about shareware, so it should be closed right after that. No one is allowed to advertise Shareware, no member should be a exception.

2.) I totally disagree with the very old "I need the money for webhosting" fairy tale. Why are so much programmers saying this? Wouldn't it be more appropriate so say the right reasons? Like "I think I have deserved some money for my hard work and research?"?! BTW, why don't you make a download page on , for instance, IWEBLAND for your files? It's free...

3.) Bach, you are right the tone is wrong. I wish we could go back to the time when Mozart was a moderator :devil: .

4.) Mr. van Eggelen has the right to ask for his work as much as he wants! 1$ or 1000000000000$, it's HIS choice, HE did the work, not anyone here. And this whole "scene" thing is romantisized. Ask all those programmers who is helping them most (beta testing, recommendations etc.), you will hear almost always the same names (or nicknames) repeating...

5.) If you think that this prize is above average, then take a look at thos Audio CD database programs prizes :eek: .

6.) Avih, are you sure that open source programmers need money? After all, money is not released under the GPL ;) .

Last but not least:

@int12h:

What is BlackHat? A group? Are you working on some new programs lately (I don't count cracks ;) )?

Ich habe fertig.

Cheers,

Mijo "Aaaaargh! He's back!And those dots!And smileys!" Rebic

int 21h

19th May 2002, 17:51

Originally posted by Ookami
[B]Whoa... What a thread...
@int12h:

What is BlackHat? A group? Are you working on some new programs lately (I don't count cracks ;) )?

A Blackhat is someone that works in the darker part of things. Usually I acquire things and I give them back to the community (but I also function in other communities). As soon as real life slows down, I'll go active with Save-OE again (I did establish the CVS for it and contribute a lot of SSE2 code to it from an un-named source) When I get time, instead of just relying on the crack to Link2, I will start work on a similar project to be GPL'd.

Tsui

19th May 2002, 18:26

I had some problems using the link2 v0.942 tool, after some testing I found the reason :

If 'ResampleAudio(44100)' is included in the Avisynth-Script, then link2 will give an error message :

Unable to open file
Are you forcing your AVI to unsupported format

@ Edwin :
Can you fix this bug ?
Maybe you can just ignore that line if it is included in the script.

Truman

19th May 2002, 23:11

Simply it isn't necessary to write that ResampleAudio line any longer. Even if you load a wrapped .avs into cce sp 250 you don't need it. Actually Edwin's Link2 tools is what I was waiting for. Frameserving with Avisynth to cce sp 2.6x (without converting with VFAPIconv1.04b as a workaround). Also you don't need to fiddle around with a bunch of utils to use custom matrices. I really appreciate your work on the Patcher, but Link2 makes life easier, doesn't it?
btw, I searched for the 2.66 beta, but could not find it. Can you help me?

Nic

20th May 2002, 10:38

I love it when Ookami posts :)

The GPL is very open to interpretation in my view...I wish they would update certain sections. Seeing that Link2 relies completely on a GPL piece of software (i.e. there is no point in Link2 exisiting if AviSynth didn't exist). (even though it was obvious the Edwin had worked hard on it)

The act of running a program using the Library is not restricted, and output from such a program is covered only if its contents constitute a work based on the Library (independent of the use of the Library in a tool for writing it).

The output of Link2 is completely reliant on AviSynth. Of course, im not saying Link2 breaks GPL, but some could consider making money from a GPL project, even in-directly, could be considered "wrong"

But theres nothing little old me can do about it........

-Nic

Ookami

20th May 2002, 19:30

> Save-OE

Excuse my ignorance, int21h, but what is Save-OE?

@Nic

:) Thanks. I love it too when I post ;) .

Cheers,

Ookie

"It's not me, it's the voices they compel me!"

Ookami

22nd May 2002, 17:25

Thanks, altough you should stop to hide your real feelings behind sarcasm ;) .

I did a search (only google) and I didn't read the DVD2AVI thread since page 4 or so, so forgive me...

Grin. Here's Ookie again, to drag this dead thread from the, whatever.

Cheers,

Ookie.

Originally posted by Bach
<sarcasm>You bastard! Rule #1 broken: search before post. Strike 1 and 2 for you!:devil:</sarcasm>

have a look at here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11442&perpage=20&highlight=saveoe&pagenumber=17)

Darksoul71

23rd May 2002, 11:12

Although I also think that it´s questionable to make money with a project that relies on
GPL software, IMHO EVE has the right to charge money for his hard work.
Although I don´t need a wrapper like this and I think a 5 FPS limit for longer than
30 sec video material is crapp, I would pay for LINK2 if I need it.

There is another point disturbing me. 1st EVE starts complaining about hosting costs.
After this more and more his "real" motivation starts to reveal:
It´s not only hosting costs (he neglects all suggestions from other peoples like free hosting).
No, EVE wants money for his work. It´s absolutely ok, but I find it MORE THAN QUESTIONABLE
to make money on GPL software PERIOD

Aaah, when it comes to spending money (like donations, paying shareware) I want to point out
one thing to all developers, etc out there:
Not all people have credit cards.
Fine, no problem you say ! People can still transfer money by using their bank account you say !

Let me tell you what:
I´m a student (so no credit card). If I want to donate 15 € (about 15 U$) to Avery Lee, EVE, doom9, etc
I have to spent another 10-15 € (10-15 U$) for transfer costs.
Doh ! :(

OK ? Most "pay companies" (how would you call them in english ?) like pay pal only offer either credit card or bank transfers and they don´t have a bank connection in Germany (where I live). So this means: Transfer costs.

Keep this in mind. So for me paying 15€/U$ for Link2 would easily become 25-30 €/U$ missing in my wallet. That´s the point here.

You can also send money to EVE by postal mail. Hey, great, I would say but he want´s a minimum of 15€ for donations for "overhead". Super, Minimum donation of 15 euro via postal is a bit high IMHO. Where´s the overhead for EVE ? Ripping off an post envelope and putting some bucks in his wallet ?

Ts,Ts, Ts,

D$

Doom9

23rd May 2002, 19:03

darksoul: a credit card is about the most handy banking tool ever to see the light of the world.. besides internetbanking obviously. If you don't have one.. your bad.. I have two (and I'm a student, too... I don't pay a dime for them.. as a student you can get free EC and credit cards when you're with the right bank).

kagi also allows money orders and checks.. I really don't think you can wish for more.. you can't tell me that it would cost less to wire-transfer money from your bank account to another.. I've done that a couple of times and I know what it costs.. As for paypal.. open an account (that's free) and have somebody who has a credit card put some money into your account.. I'm sure you know someobody who has a credit card and could give you a hand... your dad maybe?

and the program costs 15 bucks when you register online.. so what's wrong with sending 15 euros?

Darksoul71

24th May 2002, 08:46

@doom9:
It´s fine, if you have two credit cards. I have only a EC card and don´t care about credit cards. From my travel experiences in europe I´ve been healed from getting a credit card. A friend of mine had
a eurocard and once wanted to pay at a gas station in Austria. Tell you what ? The guy at the counter refused his credit card while my EC card was accepted without problems.

To make a long thing short: I hate credit cards !

kagi also allows money orders and checks.. I really don't think you can wish for more.. you can't tell me that it would cost less to wire-transfer money from your bank account to another..
That is what I was talkin about. I haven´t seen Kagi or Paypal providing a german bank account. Or have I missed it ?
So, of course I would not cost less than transfering money to Kagi/Paypal instead of transferig it directly to person ABC.

But I can wish more :)
Support Paycompanies that have a lot of bank connections in other countries. Otherwise think of my equation:
15 € Donation equals 30 € because of transfer costs if you have to transfer the money first to Paypal/Kagi/etc and this company has no account where you live.

I'm sure you know someobody who has a credit card and could give you a hand... your dad maybe?

LOL, of course you don´t know: My dad would be the last one having a credit card. He even hasn´t a EC card and doesn´t like to pay with "plastic money". Of course I know people with credit cards but that was not the point here amd I´m not willing to use a credit card. If some moron gets your card number and the expire date you know what can happen, do you ?

I wanted to show a few things:
1) Not everyone in the world has joined the "great" credit card community. There are people (even in europe) that plainly can´t afford a credit card (or don´t want one like me :D).
2) Bank transfer costs (be it to a pay service or another bank account) can easily double the ammount of money someone has to spent if the account is somewhere else in Europe (or the rest of the world).
Or would you disaggree that it sounds different to pay 30€ for a shareware proggie instead of 15 € ? Or spending 25 € when you want to donate 10€ ?

and the program costs 15 bucks when you register online.. so what's wrong with sending 15 euros?
Well, for LINK2 you´re right but I was critizing the minimum limit for postal donatotians in general.

But hey, I don´t need LINK2 anyway and I LOVE all those great freeware outside.

@EVE: Please remove that 5 FPS limit for aove 30 sec clips. Give people to check what they get if they pay for.

And: Yes, people will also use LINK2 for DVD Ripping. What´s wrong about this ? Do you think we all use AVISynth combined with GKnot to archive our old VHS tapes ? (I do so but that´s a different story :D)

-D$