artifacts in 1 cd encode

[vorbis]

recently I tried to encode 12 monkeys with the Nics latest version of xvid. I used 2 pass with alt curve compression, luma masking and modulated quantizers. I didn't use MV hints as people said that conflicts with luma masking.
HOwever, the video I got was kinda blurry. The main problem is the artifacts surrounding any text. At the start the companys' names are streaked and artifacts appear everywhere. I used luma masking for both passes as I thought this had been implemented in the newer builds. Any help would be appreciated.

[-h]

Could you post a screenshot? Nic's latest build should have this issue fixed..

-h

[vorbis]

seems to have fixed itself. I didn't change anything. Not the text displays fine. Maybe too much stuff was running on my PC. At the time, I tested it in both bsplayer and media player and both displayed the same artifacts. But it works fine now. :confused:

[Teegedeck]

BTW, mv-hints and lumi-masking in both passes works fine if you use Nic's DirectShowFilter.

[rui]

Originally posted by Teegedeck
BTW, mv-hints and lumi-masking in both passes works fine if you use Nic's DirectShowFilter.

It's a pitty that we can´t say the same about modulated quantization and mv-hints :(

I don't want to be a pain in the ass (it isn't the first time i bring this up), but i really would want to see this bug taken care, and i seem to remember -h posting something about it would be easy to do.

[-h]

It's a pitty that we can´t say the same about modulated quantization and mv-hints :(

Last I heard.. it was fixed! Can't say I tried it since that report however.

Give it a whirl :)

-h

[rui]

Great! O.k, boss, i will try it right away :)

[rui]

ALLRIGHT!!

I just made a small test using both lumi, modulated quantization and mv-hints, and the resulting avi is just fine. :) :)

[rui]

I just want to report a small thing. I can't consider it a bug because it concerns using divx to play a xvid encode. Hope vorbis doesn't mind that i take advantage of his thread.

I was encoding to xvid a pal rock concert dvd, which was interlaced.
So i choose to enable the interlace in the xvid codec.
It resulted perfectly, the resulting avi played perfectly, without any interlaced artifacts. :)

But, then i changed the fourCC to divx, so a friend of mine who only has divx could see it, and the image gets all messed up. One can't see any picture anymore, only strange collors.
So, divx can't play a xvid clip that has been made using the interlace option.

Nothing big, after all xvid has it's own ds filter, just wanted to report this.

[ookzDVD]

@rui,

Do you find any improvements if you are
using both pass with modulated + luma + mv-hints ?

Is that the "tweak" setting for XviD for
1 CD project ?

Thank you.

[rui]

Well, regarding modulated, i like it a lot, because it will adjuts automatically, depending on the quantizer used at the moment to encode, the right method of quantization (between H.263 and MPEG)

Mv-hints, you already know that it speeds up the second pass.

Regarding lumi, i can't speak much of it because i never been a great fan of it. In the prior builds i never liked very much of how the darker scenes of movies would look if i used lumi.

But -h said that in the latest builds lumi should be enabled in both passes, and that it's effect should be much improved. So i maybe start to give it a shoot.

In this test i made, the resulting video looked very good, but beware that one can't compare static frames when using lumi, because the avi with lumi enabled will probably look worse (if you choose a frame from a much darker scene or brighter scene).
But, when the movie is in motion, the bits saved in the most darker and most brighter scenes (where you probably won't notice the lack of those bits) could prove benefic to the other scenes (which normally will constitute the most part of the movie).

Make any sense? :)

[ookzDVD]

@rui,

thank you for the explaination,
I just re-encode with enable luma,
and the result is better than without
luma. ;)

[unplugged]

Originally posted by rui
I was encoding to xvid a pal rock concert dvd, which was interlaced.
So i choose to enable the interlace in the xvid codec.
It resulted perfectly, the resulting avi played perfectly, without any interlaced artifacts. :)

Was it really interlaced?
We must consider two things, source videos (MPEG2) may be originally made with interlaced structure format or/and may be *itself* interlaced.
If it's *only* interlaced the structure you can treat it as normal progressive content, (MPEG2 decode tool may hint you that is interlaced but you don't see any zig-zag motion frame...) thus you don't have to deinterlace.
If the *source* video is itself really interlaced then you see the zig-zag in moving frames (zig-zag between even and odd horizontal lines).

Originally posted by rui

But, then i changed the fourCC to divx, so a friend of mine who only has divx could see it, and the image gets all messed up. One can't see any picture anymore, only strange collors.

When you choose interlaced content in XviD options, the encoder will not deinterlace the source! :D It simply saves the XviD data with *interlaced structure*.
This is the BEST lossless solution to reencode *real* interlaced videos, the method is the same used with MPEG-2 standard: each frame, taking and grouping even and odd lines is divided in 2 sub-frame named fields (ex. 704x576 -> 704x288-odd-lines-grouped and 704x288-even-lines-grouped), this to recreate the non-interlaced data space and then encoded separately and clearly. ;)

DivX is totally far by this support, and it has only funtions to deinterace FIRST the video content; BAD :rolleyes:, this results in 30-50% image loss in low/mid/high motion areas.
This is the reason because your video gets totally messed up :D.



Note: don't resize content to be saved in interlaced form too (of course crop with care! ...by 2 lines)

Note: interlacing is the best method for TVs to obtain 50 *HUMAN EYE* frames AT THE COST OF 25 frames BITRATE!!!
He he he... infact PlayStation 2 doesn't render full 50fps but 50 semi-frames per second! Double Easy Job!! :devil:

[rui]

unplugged, thanks for the explanation.

Probably you should copy this post to the interlaced thread.

Now, some doubts i still have : :)
I was planning to capture from a tv source to, let's say MPEG2 format. Then, when encoding the resulting mpeg file, i should enable some deinterlace filter throw, let's say, avisynth, correct?

The option in xvid only serves the purpose if i capture to xvid directly, correct?

[unplugged]

Originally posted by rui
I was planning to capture from a tv source to, let's say MPEG2 format. Then, when encoding the resulting mpeg file, i should enable some deinterlace filter throw, let's say, avisynth, correct?

Check if you your intermediate MPEG file is "ready" to host interlaced stuff or you get ugly images with motion messed up; this for first.

2nd, when you encode to XviD you can choice the way to deinterlace the content or not.
Thus you can target to obtain a XviD video progressive or interlaced too:

- if you want resize down the image or could not wait a media player that support that XviD/MPEG4 interlaced frames choice to deinterlace.
Then check if your encoding utility has deinterlace option and don't forget to keep disabled XviD interlace support (since your content becomes progressive)

- if you have planned to dedicate more space, thus you not want to resize.
And, you want to keep the great "human" fluidity (50fps, that movies never will have ...:angry: ) of interlaced captures, then do NOT use any intermediate filter or resize, simply activate "interlaced support" in XviD options tab.
Note that the resulting file will be physically registered having 25 "full" fps, this is how interlaced content get stored (50 half-frames, as MPEG2 streams).
The negative point is, FOR NOW, that there isn't yet a media player that carefully expands the real 50 half-fps. So, the playback will be at 25 fps, resulting image ghost effect because each couple of half-frames still remains joint and plus the time-stretch is not done 50 times per second :(.


I suggest you to make both tries :).

Note: avisynth is a powerful script language (batch-like) for decoding videos and filtering, it has many functions bundled yet, but you need plugin for deinterlace. Mpeg2avi and Xmpeg have also deinterlace option.

Originally posted by rui
The option in xvid only serves the purpose if i capture to xvid directly, correct?

It works to maintain the destination format interlaced too (don't apply anything), so you don't have to perform deinterlace and loss 25 frames over 50 (per second).

Capturing doesn't mean anything different except for the high speed demand, so it's the same thing as if you open an interlaced MPEG2 file.

NOTE that if your capture source setup resolution is set to have less or half than 480-576 lines probably doesn't give you interlaced input (704x576@50fps PAL Europe, 704x480@60fps NTSC).

[rui]

First, thanks for your answer :)

Originally posted by unplugged


Check if you your intermediate MPEG file is "ready" to host interlaced stuff or you get ugly images with motion messed up; this for first.

I am planning on using Ulead Visual Studio 6, i hope it has that option.

Originally posted by unplugged
2nd, when you encode to XviD you can choice the way to deinterlace the content or not.
Thus you can target to obtain a XviD video progressive or interlaced too:

- if you want resize down the image or could not wait a media player that support that XviD/MPEG4 interlaced frames choice to deinterlace.
Then check if your encoding utility has deinterlace option and don't forget to keep disabled XviD interlace support (since your content becomes progressive)

Here you mean to use, for example, greedyHMA plugin (or other) for deinterlace my content, right?

Originally posted by unplugged
- if you have planned to dedicate more space, thus you not want to resize.
And, you want to keep the great "human" fluidity (50fps, that movies never will have ...:angry: ) of interlaced captures, then do NOT use any intermediate filter or resize, simply activate "interlaced support" in XviD options tab.
Note that the resulting file will be physically registered having 25 "full" fps, this is how interlaced content get stored (50 half-frames, as MPEG2 streams).
The negative point is, FOR NOW, that there isn't yet a media player that carefully expands the real 50 half-fps. So, the playback will be at 25 fps, resulting image ghost effect because each couple of half-frames still remains joint and plus the time-stretch is not done 50 times per second :(. )

Do you know of any future project of such a player? That would be GREAT!

Originally posted by unplugged
Note: avisynth is a powerful script language (batch-like) for decoding videos and filtering, it has many functions bundled yet, but you need plugin for deinterlace. Mpeg2avi and Xmpeg have also deinterlace option.

I have been reading some guides (http://www.lukesvideo.com), like Lukes's guide, who explains the interlace very well, and all methods that we current have, in some way or another, simply 1-reduce the vertical resolution by half, or 2-introduce the ghosting effect when blending the odd and even lines, correct?

Originally posted by unplugged
NOTE that if your capture source setup resolution is set to have less or half than 480-576 lines probably doesn't give you interlaced input (704x576@50fps PAL Europe, 704x480@60fps NTSC).

My capture source will be my TV antenna signal. Since i live in Portugal, Europe, i have a PAL signal. But has the PAL analogic signal the same resolution has the PAL digital signal?? This is something that i could't get cleared, no matter how much i lurked in the video capture forum...

And, to end, i will copy this post to the interlace thread, hope you don't mind ;)

EDIT: I copied this post to the interlaced material thread, so this is kind of redundant material. Again, unplugged is the rightfull "owner" of this post, i hope he doesn't mind that i copied this stuff.