The OggMachine !

[DSPguru]

i invite you all to download the first beta release of The OggMachine (http://dspguru.notrace.dk/oggmachine.png) - a graphical OGG encoder for Windows.

download it from the bottom of my webpage (http://DSPguru.notrace.dk).

Dg.

[Sheriff]

I'll try it late at night.
Thanks for working so hard :-)

[Huge]

You are, without a doubt a DSP Guru :D

Give me a while and I'll get back with some test results. A few questions already;
Can we actually play 6ch ogg back yet?
The quality setting goes from 0 to 1, how come in Headache is goes much higher?
Why doesn't it create a huge temporary file on my disk like headache :p
Can we have a save settings button?

[Tes]

Nice work DPSguru.

Originally posted by Huge
The quality setting goes from 0 to 1, how come in Headache is goes much higher?

Click on the number in the quality setting display, hit backspace a few times and then type in whatever number you like. ;)

Looks like it even accepts numbers higher than 10 though :p

[DarkAvenger]

@Huge

:rolleyes:

a) DSP knowlegde isn't actually needed for making a transcoder based on dlls.
b) If you could read, you'd know float mode is fast because of using temp space and no other tool (in near future) will reach this speed.
c) If you could read, you'd know that dumb mode (which is still faster than any other tool) uses *no* temp space.
d) The quality is defined as float from 0 to 1, so if you mulitply by 10, as oggenc, you'll have the quality settings of HeadAC3he. [edit: why the heck did the last three words disappear?]

[MaTTeR]

My my D A...someone in a bad mood today:p

And here I was feeling guilty for some of my nasty posts recently:D

[DarkAvenger]

Not really. It is just lazy and/or ignorant newbies driving me mad - and of course another person with questionable personality. :D

[DSPguru]

Hi Guys :)
You can write any value in the quality control. the list of values there are only a suggestion ;).
I know that some Ogg encoders represent quality with number from 0 to 10, but i prefer to stick to the original Ogg defenition with a scale from 0 to 1.

Cheers,
Dg.

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Huge
Can we have a save settings button? atm, all settings are saved upon exit. would you prefer to save settings only manually (button click) ?

[Huge]

Originally posted by DarkAvenger
@Huge

:rolleyes:

a) DSP knowlegde isn't actually needed for making a transcoder based on dlls.
b) If you could read, you'd know float mode is fast because of using temp space and no other tool (in near future) will reach this speed.
c) If you could read, you'd know that dumb mode (which is still faster than any other tool) uses *no* temp space.
d) The quality is defined as float from 0 to 1, so if you mulitply by 10, as oggenc, you'll have the quality settings of HeadAC3he. [edit: why the heck did the last three words disappear?]

Sheez - get back in your Pram

[Huge]

Originally posted by DSPguru
atm, all settings are saved upon exit. would you prefer to save settings only manually (button click) ?

Yup - I found that out after I restarted the app. OK, so this way is fine and I don't think we need things like profiles to be saved and loaded as it's pretty easy to configure anyway.

An option for using Boost would be cool. I know boost support is in BeSweet but when I tried to add that in it crashed immediately.

Thread Priority: Can we have an option to launch it at lower thread priorities?
Copy Command To Clipboard just paste's in a ':' char

I made two full length encodes of a 2hr ac3 last night with no problems at all. Seems maybe slower than converting to VBR MP3 but the ogg file sounds fantastic, even at 0.1 setting. I think I may be becoming an ogg convert.

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Huge
An option for using Boost would be cool.The OggMachine doesn't offer all BeSweet features. the idea was to release a simplified front-end with only common features. DanniDin will soon (i hope) release the new BeSweetGUI, and there you could use all other features :). with The OggMachine, only Azid's boosting is offered.
what i could do - whenever a user picks up a wav file instead of AC3, the DRC commandline would use "-boost" instead of "-azid( -c )".
I know boost support is in BeSweet but when I tried to add that in it crashed immediately.please paste here the commandline/log, i want to fix all v1.2b bugs before i release v1.2 .

Thread Priority: Can we have an option to launch it at lower thread priorities?i'll think about it..
Copy Command To Clipboard just paste's in a ':' charyea, MaTTeR also mentioned that. which OS are you using ?

I made two full length encodes of a 2hr ac3 last night with no problems at all. Seems maybe slower than converting to VBR MP3 but the ogg file sounds fantastic, even at 0.1 setting. I think I may be becoming an ogg convert. slower ? all my tests shows that OGG encoding is faster. what was the commandline, again :) ?

[Huge]

I think I found the bug. If you don't add a space after the -ogg() parenthesis it crashes. So, this will crash

besweet -core( -input e:\encode\audio.ac3 -output e:\encode\audio.ogg ) -azid( -L -3db -g 11.5db -n1 -c normal -s surround ) -ogg(-q 0.1) -boost(/b=5 /l=0.95)

and this is OK.

besweet -core( -input e:\encode\audio.ac3 -output e:\encode\audio.ogg ) -azid( -L -3db -g 11.5db -n1 -c normal -s surround ) -ogg( -q 0.1) -boost(/b=5 /l=0.95)

Note the space after the -ogg( -q 0.1). It's also just the first space, not the last one that makes it crash.

I'm using Windows XP Pro.

I didn't test the speed it just appeared slightly slower, I'll run some tests against a lame encode and an ogg one later today and compare.

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Huge
I think I found the bug. If you don't add a space after the -ogg() parenthesis it crashes. So, this will crashyes, yes, you must use spaces before/after parenthesis.

besweet -core( -input e:\encode\audio.ac3 -output e:\encode\audio.ogg ) -azid( -L -3db -g 11.5db -n1 -c normal -s surround ) -ogg( -q 0.1) -boost(/b=5 /l=0.95)ever tried my alternative DRC engine ? -boost( /b2=.. ) .

I didn't test the speed it just appeared slightly slower, I'll run some tests against a lame encode and an ogg one later today and compare. don't forget to compare VBR vs. VBR :) and if you'll only use Azid's DRC without setting boost parameters, the Encoding process would be even faster !

[DanniDin]

Next Weekend I'll Start/Continue Working On BeSweet GUI and Add All Missing Features.

@Huge: Latest Beta Already Has a "Thread Priority" ComboBox ;)

Danni.

[DSPguru]

@DD
send me the goods :D .

[Huge]

yes, yes, you must use spaces before/after parenthesis.
The boost section doesn't appear to need them but maybe that's just because of the parameters I'm using in there. If it's a requirement for spaces, maybe it would be nicer if you checked first and then printed a message instead of having it crash :D

Ever tried my alternative DRC engine ? -boost( /b2=.. ) .
Can't say I have but if you say the AZID one is better/faster then I guess I can use that. What does your version give me?

don't forget to compare VBR vs. VBR
Yup - doing it right now.. the ogg took 31 mins for a 2hr 3min ac3 and the vbr mp3 took 20 mins.

Ogg:
besweet -core( -input e:\encode\audio.ac3 -output e:\encode\audio.ogg ) -azid( -L -3db -g 11.5db -n1 -c normal -s surround ) -ogg( -q 0.1)

VBR:
besweet -core( -input e:\encode\audio.ac3 -output e:\encode\audio.ogg ) -azid( -L -3db -g 11.5db -n1 -c normal -s surround ) -lame( -m j -v --vbr-mtrh -V 5 )

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Huge
If it's a requirement for spaces, maybe it would be nicer if you checked first and then printed a message instead of having it crash :Di guess i could simply enhance my switches-parser engine to overcome this :).


Can't say I have but if you say the AZID one is better/faster then I guess I can use that. What does your version give me?OggMachine gives you control on "-azid( -c )", BeSweet can accept the all three :
- -azid( -c )
- -boost( /b= /l= )
- -boost( /b2= )


Yup - doing it right now.. the ogg took 31 mins for a 2hr 3min ac3 and the vbr mp3 took 20 mins.hmm, you could be right. i might do some tests of my own later.
if i'm not wrong here, starting v3.90 of lame, they started using GOGO's FFT/FHT assembly routines, and the encoder became much faster comparing to v3.89.
afaik, the ogg codec isn't using any assembly implementations at the moment, but i'm sure they will. some day.
anyway, even if you're going down from x6 realtime to x4 realtime, there are many good reasons to still start using OGG.

Dg.

[DSPguru]

Lame IS faster.
alt-preset standard took 1:05.
alt-preset fast standard took 0:50.
ogg -q 0.65 took 1:13.

here's a logfile :

BeSweet v1.2b8 logfile.
--------------------------
Logging start : 03/02/02 , 12:42:52.

D:\Files\vc\BeSweet1\Debug\BeSweet.exe -core( -input E:\fleetwood\05.ac3 -output e:\ac3tomp3\test1.ogg -logfile e:\ac3tomp3\test.log ) -lame( --alt-preset standard )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : E:\fleetwood\05.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: e:\ac3tomp3\test1.ogg
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Output Stereo mode: Dolby surround compatible
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 0.0dB, Compression: None
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR 0.0dB, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] +-------- LAME -------
[00:00:00:000] | 'alt standard' preset is used
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:03:00:000] Conversion Completed !
[00:03:00:000] Actual Avg. Bitrate : 202kbps
Logging ends : 03/02/02 , 12:43:57.

BeSweet v1.2b8 logfile.
--------------------------
Logging start : 03/02/02 , 12:44:20.

D:\Files\vc\BeSweet1\Debug\BeSweet.exe -core( -input E:\fleetwood\05.ac3 -output e:\ac3tomp3\test1.ogg -logfilea e:\ac3tomp3\test.log ) -lame( --alt-preset fast standard )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : E:\fleetwood\05.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: e:\ac3tomp3\test1.ogg
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Output Stereo mode: Dolby surround compatible
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 0.0dB, Compression: None
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR 0.0dB, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] +-------- LAME -------
[00:00:00:000] | 'alt fast standard' preset is used
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:03:00:000] Conversion Completed !
[00:03:00:000] Actual Avg. Bitrate : 200kbps
Logging ends : 03/02/02 , 12:45:10.

BeSweet v1.2b8 logfile.
--------------------------
Logging start : 03/02/02 , 12:47:17.

D:\Files\vc\BeSweet1\Debug\BeSweet.exe -core( -input E:\fleetwood\05.ac3 -output e:\ac3tomp3\test1.ogg -logfilea e:\ac3tomp3\test.log ) -ogg( -q 0.65 )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : E:\fleetwood\05.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: e:\ac3tomp3\test1.ogg
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Output Stereo mode: Dolby surround compatible
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 0.0dB, Compression: None
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR 0.0dB, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] +-------- OGG --------
[00:00:00:000] | VBR Quality : 0.65
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:03:00:000] Conversion Completed !
[00:03:00:000] Actual Avg. Bitrate : 219kbps
Logging ends : 03/02/02 , 12:48:30.

[MaTTeR]

Just in genereal I've found Ogg encoding a little slower with every app I've tried. This is normal ATM but I suspect the apps will be optimized as the Vorbis code matures.

I can handle the 10min difference for a 2hr movie:)

[MaTTeR]

@DanniDin

Perhaps it would be really nice to have the predicted bitrate indicated for a given q level. I can help you with this if need be;)

[Huge]

BTW: I did a Headac3e test using it's float mode and that took 30 mins to do the same 2hr movie. For the sake of 1min I'd rather not have the huge temporary file headac3e creates.

So we have:

Oggmachine - 31 mins
Headac3e - 30 mins
Lame - 20 mins

[DSPguru]

all we need is a very few assembly routines to put into Vorbis, and it'll be as fast as Lame.

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Huge
BTW: I did a Headac3e test using it's float mode and that took 30 mins
You obviously don't have fast drives then. The real performance difference comes when you have a RAID setup.

On a side note...is it really a big deal to have a temporary file? I mean come on..a 4GB temp file is nothing these days. Please tell me that I'm not the only one that could give a $%#@ about drive space. a 40GB drive cost $65 USD these days. Am I the only one with a drive over 6GB? LOL:D Ahhhhh...now I feel better that I got that off my shoulders.

[Huge]

*ahem* I do. I have a 75GB boot disk, a 150GB RAID0 array and 1.5GB RAM. All drives are IBM 75GXP which are 7200rpm and 75gb a piece.

edit: Oh, and a 1800 Athlon XP too before we get into that argument too.

[MaTTeR]

@Huge
Nice system...in fact much better than mine:D

I'm not going to argue the performance point as there are to many variables. Your drives apparently are a little slower than mine though. I'm using Seagate 7200RPM 60GB drives and I show that HeadAC3he 0.22a is about 27secs faster encoding to a 2ch mode. Is this worth mentioning? Of course not. It's just about enough time for me to go grab another cup of coffee.

BTW- I'm running pathetic PIII 850s. RAM is tweaked out the wazoo @ 2--2-2, DRAM Idle Time=2,DRAM Leadoff=1 and DRAM refresh is 249.6:D

[MaTTeR]

Another test-
Source:9min and 59sec clip of Pitch Black/5.1
Target:2ps 32bit float 2ch Ogg Vorbis @ q1 using normal DRC

OggMachine 1.2b7-
Completed:5min 51secs
Filesize: 5,865KB

HeadAC3he 0.22a-
Completed:3min 47secs
Filesize: 5,828KB

Difference is now 2min and 4secs on this small clip. Time enough for 2 cups of coffee now.

@DSPguru,
Very impressive speeds. The performance difference used to be a much wider gap but seems to be closing:)

[DanniDin]

@ MaTTeR


@DanniDin

Perhaps it would be really nice to have the predicted bitrate indicated for a given q level. I can help you with this if need be;)

Thanks :) I'll Let You Know...

Danni.

[Huge]

If I check the "Set delay to xx msecs" checkbox, besweet will always crash. It just seems to add the following to the command line..

-ota( -d -160 )

[Huge]

This is for all BeSweet encodes. Can you print a 'time-taken' line at the end, starttime-endtime=timetaken?

[ivan_alias]

@Huge
ahem* I do. I have a 75GB boot disk, a 150GB RAID0 array and 1.5GB RAM. All drives are IBM 75GXP which are 7200rpm and 75gb a piece.

I'd watch out if I were you. Those 75GXPs have a nasty habbit of failing. I recently lost 40 GB of mp3 and divx because of those drives. Yes I know, should have backed up etc etc.. yadda yadda..

Anyhow, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=IBM+deskstar+failure

Wish you well, mine lasted for only 8 months :(

Ivan

[Huge]

@ivan_alias: Yea - I know, I've had these just over a year and I'm thinking about changing them anyway for some of those bigger/faster Maxtors.

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Huge
If I check the "Set delay to xx msecs" checkbox, besweet will always crash. It just seems to add the following to the command line..

-ota( -d -160 )

very weird. you're the first to complain about this.
i'll check it out. btw, the latest BeSweet version availbe is v1.2b9.

Originally posted by Huge
This is for all BeSweet encodes. Can you print a 'time-taken' line at the end, starttime-endtime=timetaken?
no sweat.

[Northpack]

Help! :(

I can't get OggMachine to work on my system (WinXP). It immediately crashes down with the error message: "System Error &H8007007E (-2147024770). Module not found." Damn!! I would realy like to use this tool!

Northpack

[Taric25]

Originally posted by MaTTeR
BTW- I'm running pathetic PIII 850s. RAM is tweaked out the wazoo @ 2--2-2, DRAM Idle Time=2,DRAM Leadoff=1 and DRAM refresh is 249.6:D

You think that stinks?

I have a PIII 550Mhz, 128MB PC-133 SDRAM, Fujitsu 10GB 5600RPM Hard Drive, Pioneer 40x10x DVD-ROM, and Philips 24x4x4x IDE CD-R(W) running Windows 2000 Pro. ALL my rips are directly from the DVD because I only have 4.64 GB free.

[MaTTeR]

@Taric25

Well it certainly stinks compared to the setup Huge has going:D

@All
For those of you with small drives. Visit www.pricewatch.com for the best drive prices.

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Northpack
Help! :(

I can't get OggMachine to work on my system (WinXP). It immediately crashes down with the error message: "System Error &H8007007E (-2147024770). Module not found." Damn!! I would realy like to use this tool!

Northpack i believe the missing module is the OCX file. did you extract it from the zip package ?

[Huge]

Gents,

What are is the range of the quality flag? The new Oggmachine comes with it set as 0.001 which is kinda confusing. Maybe Danni can add some of those nice pop-up help messages that he has in his other gui's?

[LigH]

Originally posted by Huge

...
An option for using Boost would be cool. I know boost support is in BeSweet...


Thank you - I just was about to ask. ;)

[neo_sapien]

When I try to do a framerate conversion, OggMachine crashes. It brings up a command prompt box, which promptly disappears, and that's it. The latest version of BeSweetGUI behaves differently, opening up a duplicate program and saying that it's writing. Then 11 minutes later, it still says it's writing. This is a 31 second wav file. How can I convert my TV cap audio files from 29.97fps to 24.00fps?

Windows XP
Athlon XP 1500+
(2) IBM60GXP 60 gig drives in a 120GB RAID 0 array
OggDS 0.9.8.5

[LigH]

Dear DSPguru,

I think there's still much left to fix: I just tried to convert the standardised AC3 5.1 test file. Please find the results here (manually added boost parameters).

1) 2-channel surround output: Ogg ABR mode seems to be unsupported, instead a default quality seems to be used.


BeSweet v1.2b9 logfile.
--------------------------
Logging start : 03/04/02 , 13:11:56.

H:\PROGRA~1\BESWEET\BESWEET.EXE -core( -input ac3test.ac3 -output ac3test2.ogg -logfile ac3test2.log ) -azid( -n1 -f1 -g max -s surround ) -ogg( -b 128 -m 64 -M 256 ) -boost( /b=3 /l=0.96 )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : ac3test.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: ac3test2.ogg
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Output Stereo mode: Dolby surround compatible
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 17.8dB, Compression: None
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR 0.0dB, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] +-------- BOOST ------
[00:00:00:000] | Algorithm by : LigH
[00:00:00:000] | Boost Factor : 3.0
[00:00:00:000] | Limit Factor : 0.96
[00:00:00:000] +-------- OGG --------
[00:00:00:000] | VBR Quality : 0.700
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:01:00:000] Conversion Completed !
[00:01:00:000] Actual Avg. Bitrate : 190kbps
Logging ends : 03/04/02 , 13:12:37.


2) 6-channel mode: Encoding was refused and a probably wrong error reported (compare both - file is 48 kHz, SSRC was not used).


BeSweet v1.2b9 logfile.
--------------------------
Logging start : 03/04/02 , 13:12:55.

H:\PROGRA~1\BESWEET\BESWEET.EXE -core( -input ac3test.ac3 -output ac3test6.ogg -logfile ac3test6.log -6chogg ) -azid( -n1 -f1 -g max ) -ogg( -b 128 -m 64 -M 256 ) -boost( /b=3 /l=0.96 )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : ac3test.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: ac3test6.ogg
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
Error 68: 6chogg only works with 48khz streams.
Gain should be set against azid.
Quiting...
[00:00:00:000] Conversion Completed !
Logging ends : 03/04/02 , 13:13:03.


P.S. to everyone: With maximised gain and {no or light} compression, a boost factor of 3.0 is my recommended maximum now - I did several tests, boost factors above 4.0 on normalised audio sound too compressed in my opinion. But still I can't recommend more than light AC3 dynamic compression if Boost is used as well.

[Northpack]

Originally posted by DSPguru
i believe the missing module is the OCX file. did you extract it from the zip package ?

Yes comdlg32.ocx is in the same directory as OggMachine.exe

Northpack

[DSPguru]

@LigH

Originally posted by LigH
Dear DSPguru,

1) 2-channel surround output: Ogg ABR mode seems to be unsupported, instead a default quality seems to be used.the ogg vorbis codec RC3 doesn't support ABR on 48khz streams. try it with 44.1khz.

2) 6-channel mode: Encoding was refused and a probably wrong error reported (compare both - file is 48 kHz, SSRC was not used).i don't support '6chogg' with WaveBooster at the moment. sorry :(.

[DSPguru]

@Huge
Originally posted by Huge
What are is the range of the quality flag? 0 to 1.
double click on the quality textbox, you'll find a handy combobox with some popular quality values ;).

Also, no crash on negative delay with Latest Release.
i've also added duration summary on v1.2b10.

@neo_sapien
Originally posted by neo_sapien
When I try to do a framerate conversion, OggMachine crashes. It brings up a command prompt box, which promptly disappears, and that's it. try the latest release. (OggMachine v0.12 + BeSweet v1.2b10).

The latest version of BeSweetGUI behaves differently, opening up a duplicate program and saying that it's writing. Then 11 minutes later, it still says it's writing. This is a 31 second wav file.
read here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17359&highlight=besweet.exe) .

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Northpack


Yes comdlg32.ocx is in the same directory as OggMachine.exe

Northpack try putting it in the win/system directory.
now, what about the very basic VB dll - Msvbvm60.dll , do you have it on your system directory ?

[LigH]

Originally posted by DSPguru
@LigH

the ogg vorbis codec RC3 doesn't support ABR on 48khz streams. try it with 44.1khz.


Okay, I'll do. (But I wonder why - are there special optimisations for this frequency which won't work for others? I'm not going to understand the sources, though...)

Originally posted by DSPguru
i don't support '6chogg' with WaveBooster at the moment. sorry :(.

But it shall be no problem, I used the WaveBooster on 6-ch interleaved waves successfully, because it works independently for each sample. Hope to see it soon; at least I'd expect some clearer error message.

[DSPguru]

But it shall be no problem, I used the WaveBooster on 6-ch interleaved waves successfullyi didn't say it's a problem. just didn't have the time to implement...
Originally posted by LigH
at least I'd expect some clearer error message. you're right :).

[Huge]

Originally posted by DSPguru
@Huge
0 to 1.
double click on the quality textbox, you'll find a handy combobox with some popular quality values ;).

Heh - very nice. :D

Also, no crash on negative delay with Latest Release.
i've also added duration summary on v1.2b10.


Not quite ;-) Oddly, I can enter any value except for -160. If I enter -159 or -161 then it works OK, but -160 causes an immediate crash.

[Huge]

GUI Bug's

You can click the Give me Ogg twice to start two sessions using the same filenames. That can't be good for performance ;-)
I think it also screwed up the .ogg I was doing

The secret pop-up bitrate/quality fields should be synchronised. Somehow I had one showing 0.01 and the other showing 0.4

[Charlieds]

First of all, great work DSPguru & DanniDin!
And now some little problems :)

OggMachine v0.12(03.04.02)BeSweet 1.2b10 - WinXP:
Cannot Copy command to clipboard.
Confirm the -160 delay bug reported by Huge,
crash on AppName BeSweet.exe ModName vorbis.dll Offset 00002c44.

Thank you again!

[Huge]

Odd,

The copy command to clipboard was broken in 1.0, fixed in 1.11 and is now broken again in 1.12

[DSPguru]

sorry guys, i don't meet the -160 delay bug. please show me the commandline was used

Originally posted by Huge
Odd,

The copy command to clipboard was broken in 1.0, fixed in 1.11 and is now broken again in 1.12 believe it or not. i didn't change anything regarding this since v0.1. conclusion - VB sux :D !

[Huge]

"besweet.exe" -core( input "e:\encode\eagle act t01_2_0ch 256Kbps DELAY -160ms.ac3" -output ( e:\encode\eagle act t01_2_0ch 256Kbps DELAY -160ms.ogg" -logfilea BeSweet.log ) -azid( -L -3db -g 9db -n1 -c normal -s surround ) -ota( -d -160 ) -ogg( -q 0.4 )

Phew! Please fix the Copy Command to clipboard button ;-)

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Huge
Phew! Please fix the Copy Command to clipboard button ;-) hehe, you could just paste the command from the logfile (if exists..).

[Huge]

It crashes before anything get's written to the log file ;-)

[Pasqui]

Hi DSPguru,
could you think about the possibility to use vorbis.dll instead of Tobias's Directshow filters ? If I ask this it is because RC3 is more than 3 months old and on Hydrogenaudio forums you can find updated binaries with latest improvements done to the library.
Currently if I want to benefit from both Besweet and latest Vorbis, I have to decode the AC3 file to a temporary wav file and I can't use float mode.
Thanks in advance,

Pasqui.

[DSPguru]

@Pasqui
BeSweet is working directly against the RC3 sdk dlls. Tobias's DSF isn't involved in the process. it's just a nice installer of the DLLs ;).
it's also an easy way to avoid the need for ppl to redownload the files from the internet. each user who have once installed the DSF won't need to find the dlls in BeSweet's zip file.

now, if there are a new compatible binaries of ogg.dll,vorbis.dll&vorbisenc.dll , feel free to switch them with the one supplied by Tobias.

I know that the guys over at hydrogenaudio have modifed CDEX's vorbis.dll , which is something Albert Faber made. it's based on RC3. but got nothing to do with the SDK's vorbis.dll.
afaik (could be wrong here), they didn't improve sound quality in Albert's dll. just modified few stuff.

if you know of any improved OGG releated dll. please post a link.

[Pasqui]

@DSPguru
in fact, I already tried to change the vorbis.dll file installed by Tobias's Directshow filter in /system32/ but then I was not able to watch an ogg container movie. At least, if a vorbis.dll file is in the same directory as Besweet, could you use it instead of the one in system32 folder ? It would allow us to use an up-to-date dll.
Concerning new dlls, here is what john33 posted on Hydogenaudio's board:
"The daily binary encoder versions - oggenc, libvorbis.dll and vorbis.dll - now show the date of the last library update in the vendor string. So the versions at Roberto's site will now add the date as 20020228 being the date of the last library update. To continue to use the RC3 release date seemed a little silly considering that the libraries have moved on quite a bit since then."
You can found Roberto's site here (http://www.inf.ufpr.br/~rja00/)

[LigH]

Originally posted by DSPguru
... VB sux :D !

Then better use a real compiler programming language instead! ;)

I'm about to write one in Delphi. But I'd like to have docs about all the new command line options of BeSweet, especially regarding Ogg. Please update soon!


And another few questions:

(1) Is "-boost( /disable )" the same as not adding a boost option?
(2) Do you have a few details about the second boost algorithm by Dg?

[MaTTeR]

@Pasqui

The Vorbis DLL that Tobias is using is the latest version with the same quality that any of the other alternative DLL's will provide. Mos tof the other modified DLL's were hacked in order to work with apps like EAC, CDex, etc.

Tobias is very quick toupdate the OggDS package when need be. The modified DLL you speak of from john33 just contains the proper library date. AFAIK know other modifactions were made such as quality enhancements, etc.

[DSPguru]

Hi all,
i won't have time to reply to all the posts at the moment. only a quick one.

i have updated the list of switches in my site. and will continue to do so.
find it on the "guides & help" section. especially :
http://dspguru.notrace.dk/ogg.txt


i've also updated the 'KnownIssues' thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15738) regarding v1.2bX.


@Pasqui
i've checked the link, and still agree with MaTTaR. no REAL difference in the dlls regarding the Ogg encoding product.
and this vorbis.dll isn't compatible with the RC3's vorbis.dll, it's only compatible with cdex's vorbis.dll .

[Pasqui]

OK, maybe you are right. Main objective was to achieve the best quality possible. If it is already the case, then perfect !
Thanks for taking a bit of time to check.

Pasqui.

[MaTTeR]

That is the case as Tobias seems to stay very current.

I'd suggest updating each time he releases a new OggDS package. I suspect we will see a new one coming pretty soon which will support multi-channel playback:D

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Charlieds
Confirm the -160 delay bug reported by Huge,
crash on AppName BeSweet.exe ModName vorbis.dll Offset 00002c44.
the "-d -160" bug was fixed in BeSweet v1.2RC .
Originally posted by Huge
GUI Bug's

You can click the Give me Ogg twice to start two sessions using the same filenames. That can't be good for performance ;-)
I think it also screwed up the .ogg I was doing

The secret pop-up bitrate/quality fields should be synchronised. Somehow I had one showing 0.01 and the other showing 0.4
the two OggMachine bugs reported by Huge are fixed in v0.13.

as for "copy command to clipboard" - please report back !

and like i always say - thank you all for finding bugs :D !
Dg.

[Pasqui]

@Matter
You're right. Tobias told me he would release a new filter later this week which should solve the sync issue with DVobSub.
With DVobSub + XviD + Vorbis I guess I've found a winner for my encodes :D

Pasqui.

[Huge]

Testing with 1.13.

Bug still exists with the -160 delay. :(
Copy command to clipboard now works again. :)
You can't write to the same file again now :)

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Huge
Bug still exists with the -160 delay. :( with BeSweet v1.2rc ?

[Huge]

Originally posted by DSPguru
with BeSweet v1.2rc ?

God I hate people like me... it would help if I read the important stuff at least once in a while ;-)

Yup - it's all fixed now I've got 1.2rc :D

Looking good.

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Huge
Yup - it's all fixed now I've got 1.2rc :D

Looking good. YES :cool: !

[Pasqui]

@DSPguru
Sorry to introduce once more the subject of the dll, but according to that post (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=10390#post10390) , there has been changes since official RC3 was released. When I check in my Windows/system32 directory, the dlls installed by Tobias's filters are the official ones dated of the 31st of december. That's why I ask you to think once more about using a vorbis.dll installed in the same directory as BeSweet (no I can not simply replace the old dll in system32 by a new one because after this ogg container movies do not play anymore). It would allow us to use more tuned dlls for low bitrates

Pasqui.

PS: I love your program and that's why I want it to be as perfet as possible ;)

[MaTTeR]

@Pasqui

The thread you provided didn't mention anything about quality improvements. They are just discussing the lib date.

I still think it's the safest method that Dg is providing now. IMO alot of problems could start popping up if people are just using any Vorbis.dll. What if a new DLL introduces quality artifacts? Now you will see users posting that it's a bug in OggMachine, when in fact the new DLL they downloaded from some website is buggy. Ignore me I'm just think out loud and not fully awake yet:D

[Pasqui]

@MaTTer
I think there have been some improvements in the code, as john33 siad "the current state of the libraries is quite different to the original RC3". But I'm going to ask him directly, so as to close the debate ;)
If you want to avoid people complaining about the quality, DSPguru can add the official dll in his pack, and peolple can take the decision to update the dll.

Pasqui.

[DSPguru]

@Northpack
Originally posted by Northpack
Help! :(

I can't get OggMachine to work on my system (WinXP). It immediately crashes down with the error message: "System Error &H8007007E (-2147024770). Module not found." Damn!! I would realy like to use this tool!

Northpack you need to register the activex compononet, run this :regsvr32 comdlg32.ocx.

that's the solution !

[MaTTeR]

I mentioned this to D A awhile back. It would be most helpfull if the tags had information in them like the quality, downmix, channels, etc that were used during the transcode process.

I do mucho testing so for me it would be cool to go back and see what settings were used for different files. Just a thought.

[DSPguru]

@Pasqui
BeSweet v1.3b2 can now work with the latest vorbis compiles.
download libVorbis.dll (http://www.inf.ufpr.br/~rja00/files/libvorbis.zip) from Roberto Amorim's site (http://www.inf.ufpr.br/~rja00/ogg.html), and place it on the BeSweet directory.

[MaTTeR]

@DSPguru

Any idea if the new DLL was compiled with ICL? I'm not seeing near the performance boost that's stated on Hydrogen Audio.

On a 7min source file I only seen an ecoding difference of 15 seconds for completion time:confused:

[DSPguru]

i really don't know what's the differences between this latest compile to the official rc3. mayB quality improvements..., mayB not :)

[Pasqui]

@DSPguru
Thanks a lot ! I will try it ASAP :D :D :D

Pasqui.

PS: according to hydrogenaudio board, there has been some improvements in the pre-echo domain.

[DSPguru]

i've just tested Roberto's Daily vorbis DLLs (http://www.inf.ufpr.br/~rja00/files/OVdllswinlame.zip), and found about 20% speed improvements comparing to the dlls supplied by the latest OggDS.

installation is easy - just download the archive and extract the dlls to your windows/system folder.

[DSPguru]

hi all,
i've released a prebeta version of AacMachine.
Usage should be very easy for OggMachine users :).

AacMachine can be found here (http://besweet.notrace.dk) & AacEnc can be found here (http://doom9.org/software2.htm#audio).

Cheers,
Dg.

[tuco]

I noticed that besweet can't handle .wav using ADPCM. However I was able to convert those types of wavs with winamp. Is it possible to use besweet/Ogg machine to create .ogg files?

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by tuco
I noticed that besweet can't handle .wav using ADPCM.true, only pcm,16bit,stereo wavs are supported.Is it possible to use besweet/Ogg machine to create .ogg files? http://doom9.org/oggmachine.htm