DVD-R or wait for DVD+R?

[bLuEScReeN]

I want to buy a DVD burner but I don't know what I should go with. Should I wait a little for DVD+R or go with DVD-R and get a drive like the A04/104 Pioneer which I almost brought. I would be using it for DVD backup mainly and data storge. I would be playing the backups on three different computers; one my Dell Insprion 8100 laptop, a computer with a Pioneer 16x DVD drive, and another computer with a slot loader Pioneer 16x DVD drive. It would be my only way to burn normal CDs and will be occupied by a another Pioneer 16x DVD slot loader in a dual 1900MP Athlon system. My friends are telling me to wait for DVD+R but I don't know if my Pioneer DVD drives will support DVD+R. This is why I don't know if I should wait or not so any advice would be appreciated.:confused:

[Deepa DvD]

DVD-R is the way to go! (I am not advertising) You should get the Pioneer A03 for home movies or the S201 for mastering DVD's (for mastering DVD's,a DLT Tape drive is reccomended) DVD-R is way cheaper and more compatible, and I don't think HP can make DVD+R.I heard rumors, that they said that they will not be able to invent dvd+r media. I have a Pioneer 103 (bundeled version of the A03) and it works great.This recomendation is if you want to create (author) DVD's for set-top players to play.I do not know about backup.For backup I don't think it will matter, but dvd-r/dvd-rw might be more compatible with your other dvd-rom drives if you are intending to use the backup for several computers.And dvd-r/dvd-rw is cheaper than dvd+rw.:)

[brashquido]

Hi Deepa DvD,

Do you find that the limitation of the DVD-R media capacity an issue when backing up your DVD movies? I was going to get one, but most of my movies are around 5 GB or more.

[Deepa DvD]

Hello brashquido,
Certainly not cuz I don't back up my DVD's, I am more into authoring new titles.DVD-R is more compatible than DVD+RW on set-top.If I were you I'd get the Pioneer A03! Hope this helps! :)

[gnutellafan]

Originally posted by Deepa DvD
I don't think HP can make DVD+R.I heard rumors, that they said that they will not be able to invent dvd+r media.

DVD+R is NOW OUT. HP was just unable to add +R support to the first generation drives but the second generation drive DO support +R. If you have (or can get) the HP100i retail you can trade it in (for $99) for the new 200i.

I havent decided if I want -r or +r but Im waiting for the 3rd generation drives either way I go. Hopefully they will get most of the bugs ironed out by then.

[Cyber]

bluescreen,

The new Ricoh DVD+R/+RW drive MP5125A for PC is available now. I have recently bought this one. It works extremely prefect with excellent compatiblility of the +R/+RW media. These medias can playback on most DVD players or DVD-ROM drives (exclusive for the first and second generation), even on the my old Asus 8X DVD-ROM drive. The +R media have the better compatibility than +RW. Futhermore, +R/+RW media uses lesser time to finalize, + use around 1 minute and - use around 15 minutes.

Although, +R/+RW is a newer technology and the price of the media is more expensive than -R/-RW but the price of the drive is cheaper (for MP5125A is around HK$3,100 but A04 is around HK$3,800), technology is better than -R/-RW and the price of the media is dropping (for Ricoh +R is around HK$60 and +RW is around HK$72). I think it will be the future stardard of DVD recording.

For details, please visit http://www.dvdplusrw.org/index.html

[TRILIGHT]

Of course dvdplusrw.org is going to tell you it's the best. That's a rather biased/skewed view of the truth considering they are pushing the DVD+RW format. In fact, the neutral site "DVD Demystified" claims the - format to have over 90% compatibility whereas the + format has only 65%! Horrible in my opinion.

I'm sure that the + format will catch up but I'm not really concerned with it. If you're in the market to get something today, I would suggest the - format (even the + format if they ever get their compatibility high enough). The reason I don't really care is because I am able to author DVD's today that play fine on my Sony DVD player. Pioneer and many others will be releasing "Blu-ray" technology (http://www.pioneer.co.jp/press/release92.html) in 2-4 years and that will be the time I'm considering an upgrade anyway. All this +/- crap won't even matter anymore.

[Deepa DvD]

I totally agree with TRILIGHT!:)

[ronnylov]

Originally posted by TRILIGHT
Of course dvdplusrw.org is going to tell you it's the best. That's a rather biased/skewed view of the truth considering they are pushing the DVD+RW format. In fact, the neutral site "DVD Demystified" claims the - format to have over 90% compatibility whereas the + format has only 65%! Horrible in my opinion.


This is not true. I checked "DVD Demystified" and here is what they claim:
"Very roughly, DVD-R discs works in about 90% of existing drives and players, while DVD-RW and DVD+RW discs work in around 65%." So they say that DVD-RW is just as bad as DVD+RW.

And here is another quote from the same page:
"DVD+R is a write-once variation of DVD+RW, expected to appear in 2002. It's a dye-based medium, like DVD-R, so it will have similar compatibility as DVD-R. Most DVD+RW drives will be upgradeable via a firmware download to write DVD+R discs." So they say DVD-R is just as good as DVD+R.

Saldy they were wrong about the last sentence. In reality most of the first generation DVD+RW drives are not upgradeable to read DVD+R discs. So many people have been buying DVD+RW and thought they could upgrade it later...

So there seem not to be any general compability reasons to choose one format instead of the other. I guess you have to test what format works best in the standalone players you are using.

[TRILIGHT]

You're exactly right, Ronny. I was reading things on their site a while back and apparently remembered wrong. I'm only human. :) Nice to see someone reading and checking things for themselves instead of just being "sheep". :)

That being said, many people have claimed a higher standalone DVD player compatibility with the - format over the + format. This may or may not have changed as the new players and firmware are released. I know the older DVD+RW burners cannot be upgraded to use +R but I believe there is a trade-in program for them now.

I agree with what you said. Ultimately, it's whatever someone finds works best for them in their own given situation. I personally decided to go with the Pioneer drive since a lot more people owned it and reported having very few problems with it. Plus, it had supported a write-once medium for a while so I figured they had more time to work any bugs out. I like to wait until at least the second generation of a product. I've found it's been beneficial having purchased the DVR-104 drive over the earlier 103 as it's allowed me greater reliability and compatibility. As with just about everything I buy though, it will be on E-bay in 2-3 years and I'll have something new. :)

[sarahjh69]

dvd-r works in playstation 2
dvd+r don't

do u need any other reason!

[leonb]

Originally posted by TRILIGHT
Pioneer and many others will be releasing "Blu-ray" technology (http://www.pioneer.co.jp/press/release92.html) in 2-4 years and that will be the time I'm considering an upgrade anyway. All this +/- crap won't even matter anymore.

If you think it will take 2-4 years for "Blu-Ray" technology to become widely available, your making a mistake! If ever, it will be more towards 10 years. We are going to be stuck with the DVD-format for a long time to come. I don't think that after the billions of dollars companies invested in dvd technology, they will easily shift to "Blu-ray". Even when/if "Blue-ray" is available, dvd-format will still be used by most people(just like cd's now?).

[TRILIGHT]

Perhaps I should have said the +/- crap won't matter to *me*. I rarely stick with the norm when it comes to technology. Sure, VHS tapes are still in use today but I don't see that stopping anyone from jumping on the DVD bandwagon. When I first heard of the CD technology it was around 1980. By 1985 I was able to buy a CD at my local Wal-Mart! That was before the major PC/Internet boom and before people even knew what digital technology was!

With today's proliferation of knowledge, the average consumer is a LOT more "tech-savvy" than they were 20 years ago. With the networks being forced to provide HDTV in the next few years, it would behoove the tech industry to have a medium available in a consumer model to take advantage of the widespread interest in HDTV. True, it may only be available in a playback form at first but it won't take long. Orange Book's first publication was in 1988, only 3 or 4 years after I was able to buy a CD at the store. Only a few years later, I saw the first consumer model CDR drives. If it only took about 6 or 7 years back then, I can only imagine it taking roughly 4 or 5 for a technology like this to reach consumers today. I may have been optimistic when I said 2-4 but I tend to sell and upgrade my hardware roughly every 2-4 years. By then, I will have gotten plenty of use out of this drive and will move on to something new.

[Arky]

Anyone as long in the tooth as me (27!!) will recall all-too-well, the calamity at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties, when Sharp and others battled with Sony in the infamous VHS vs. BetaMax war. History tells us that Sony's BetaMax lost, DESPITE the ironic fact that BetaMax was clearly superior to VHS. Basically, VHS cornered the market more quickly than BetaMax did. So do we argue over Betamax now? No - we use the DeFacto standard. I'm not saying I am HAPPY that this is how things turned out - I'm simply saying that those of us who bought BetaMax machines in spec nevertheless ended up regretting doing so because they were left stranded.

Then there was MiniDisc (Sony) vs. Digital Compact Cassette (Philips)

Then there were a multitude of different 'CDR' contenders, each of subtly different, and (deliberately!) incompatible formats.


If one is to learn anything from all this, its that, like it or not, you cannot turn back the tide - you're better off finding the solution that is best-supported, and most widely used - in this case, it's DVD-R. I am just about to purchase my first DVD writer. It #WILL# be DVD-R format...

Incidentally, by the time DVD+R blanks come down in price (which they'll never do to the same extent as DVD-R, simply because they will not be demanded by the same number of buyers), DVD+R owners will have wasted so much money on their DVD+R blanks, that, for the same money, they could have bought a DVD-R drive as WELL as their DVD+R drive, and just let the DVD+R drive gather dust, while they saved money using DVD_R media instead!


Arky ;o)

[ronnylov]

Just wanted You to know that I have made my decision now and bought a Pioneer DVR-A04 (retail) today. The price was good (to be in Sweden), 4850 SEK, thats about $490 US Dollars. The Swedish 25 % VAT is included in the price.

I hope I did a good decision. I was thinking of HPDVD200i first but when looking at the media prices and the user reports on internet I found that A04 is a better buy. By the way the lowest price of Pioneer DVR-104 in Sweden is 4744 SEK ($480) and concidered that there was two Pioneer DVD-R discs, 5 CD-R and some bundled software (even if perhaps not so good) included with the DVR-A04 the choice was easy.

So now I have to see if the DVD-R discs will work in my standalone player. I didn't know were to get a test disc, but if it doesn't work I only get a good reason to buy a new player!

[Mazze]

Same here, i also live in Sweden (tjenare) and recently bought a dvr-104. I think dvd-r is the way to go.

Too bad i haven't found any "cheap" disc here in sweden yet, currently i'm buying memorex discs at 6$ a piece.

[ronnylov]

Originally posted by Mazze
Same here, i also live in Sweden (tjenare) and recently bought a dvr-104. I think dvd-r is the way to go.

Too bad i haven't found any "cheap" disc here in sweden yet, currently i'm buying memorex discs at 6$ a piece.

Check this thread!
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25766

I have ordered a 25-pack of DVD-R, 5 single DVD-R and 1 DVD-RW disc with a total prize of £56.47 from UK, including VAT and shipping. That's around 800 SEK total (or $2.60 a piece). It's less than half the prize of the discs in Sweden! We'll see if they arrive and if they work...

[o0RaidR0o]

Hey bLuEScReeN due you own a standalone DVD player or part of a home theatre system? And if so find out what format it supports and then this will decide which type of burner you will choose.

For instance I own a SONY DAV-S300 dvd home system, although its not mentioned in the manual it can play DVD-R media.

You can go here for a list of players: http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdplayers.php

Because I'm not planning on replacing my home theatre system anytime soon I've opted to purchase the Pioneer A04 DVD-RW/R burner.

You can use DVD Decrypter to rip and encode a standard DVD small enough to fit on a standard 4.7GB DVD disc.

It has an intuitive GUI and rips only the movie portion and sound and none of the extras. It can even create an ISO.

Rock On!!!:cool:

o0RaidR0o

[EcchiNut]

Trilight: actually those companies have been colaborating on that blue laser or "Blu-ray" format since mid '99. I guess its just now(well Feburary) they've finally agreed on a set standard patent for the technology.

[sarahjh69]

my sony player happily plays
bulqcrap dvd-r
datasafe dvd-rw (these work in my my PS2 as well)

and as dvd-rw is a £1 a go from bigpockets.........
pioneer dvr 104 £250 from bigpockets (inc VAT)

[AudioVideoMaster]

I'm waiting on DVD-R and DVD-RW drives to get faster for one thing. They are out there, I found a Pioneer A03 for just $379. It also does CD-R/RW. But DVD-R/RW writing only at DVD 1X !! The + drives are a bit faster but I'm needing compatibility when I author my own DVD'S.

I've got 2 DVD's I've authored already. They are sitting WinRAR archived across a bunch of CD's just waiting for the day when they will see a DVD-R disk. They'll never see a DVD+R disk. :D

Just my II cents.

[Arky]

Well, I have to concede that I may have been wrong about which standard would succeed, although I still stand by my original remarks about the cost-benefits of buying a DVD-R drive, in terms of money saved on media ;) This is slowly changing, but REMAINS (at the present time) an issue because DVD+R/RW media is still overpriced.

Anyway, here are some up to date quotes, firstly from CNET News.com's Richard Shim, and secondly from Andrew Wyllie, an NEC spokesperson:




**********************************************************************

Richard:

In general, DVD-R/-RW is compatible with more consumer DVD players, and uses less expensive media, while DVD+R/+RW is found in more PCs. However, those in the industry stress that the balance of power between the two formats could change at any time.


**********************************************************************

Andrew:

"I think it will ultimately be (DVD+R/+RW) that will win, unless (DVD-R/-RW) comes up with significant benefits, so having 4x DVD+R is important to us," said Andrew Wyllie, head of NEC's UK data storage division. "But at the beginning of this year, it looked like DVD-R/-RW would win."
**********************************************************************

For the full report, look here:

h**p://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2123994,00.html


Thanks to Doom9 for the original link, on the main site's news page.

I so nearly pre-ordered the Sony drive last week, from:

h**p://www.avland.co.uk/sony/dru500/index.htm


Now, on the basis of the above ZDnet report, I'm considering waiting til December for the NEC drive, since it writes DVD+ disks at 4x, in comparison to the Sony, which only write + disks at 2.4x.

Only thing is, I'm more confident of the quality of Sony products than I am of NEC. Does anyone here have any firsthand experience of NEC computer hardware?

Cheers.


Arky ;o)

[gnutellafan]

May as well wait for Q1 2003 for the 8x DVD+R/RW drives. Philips is already shipping the chips:

http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/news/content/file_902.html

The only other thing I would suggest right now, and I might do, is pick up a 2x if I can find one for ~$150ish. May be doable the morning after thanksgiving! Then wait six months or so and pick up your 8x drive for ~$200 instead of $400+.

[zazonz]

Why not get the new sony(dru500a) that burns both standards? Why don't they make a disk that burns to both standards? We can put a man on the moon, this cant be that hard.

[TRILIGHT]

It's called "corporate politics" or "corporate strategy" as the case may be. They are competing standards. I'm sure Sony has probably had to pay some serious licensing to do both in one drive as well as spending more money on the drive electronics. No doubt they will be selling the drive for more than what others cost. They are betting that they will make more money on the sale of the drive than it has cost them in licensing, etc. in order to make it.

I, for one, do NOT want to see this crap turn into a damn VHS vs. Betamax thing. Hopefully consumers have become more technically savvy and we will not see a more superior format fall by the wayside. Of course, even this goes back to what I said before concerning "corporate politics" and licensing. As far as I know, -R is still the most widely used, accepted, and compatible format. The +R format really has nothing significant to offer yet. Until I see a GOOD reason to make a switch, I'm not jumping ship.

[alexnoe]

DVD-R(W) does not require any license fees, so they only had to pay to DVD+R(W) alliance.

[Reggatta Mondatta]

Trilight:

I am curious about your statement "-R is still the most widely used, accepted, and compatible format". What do you base that on? Not to challenge it, just curious about the source of that assertion.

My work in the storage industry has given me the opportunity to talk with several of the major players in the DVD market and it appears that the +RW/+R format is gaining acceptance. Many of those players feel that +RW/+R will become 'the standard'.

As a result of those conversations, I picked up a dvd200e +RW/+R burner from HP. So far, using Verbatim media, I have successfully 'backed up' 30+ DVD movies. Initially, I was using Nero 5.5.8.0, but had problems with burning +R media. Switching to RecordNow MAX resolved that issue and has worked great.

All of the 'backups' have worked without fail in every standalone DVD player I have tried (Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic...). Unfortunately, I did not capture the specific models other than my Pioneer DV-434. As the opportunity presents itself, I will continue to test those 'backups' in various players and capture the specific models.

At this point, I am a very 'happy camper' with this unit and format.

RM

[alexnoe]

German C'T did a DVD media quality test. I have to get that paper :D

I was told that Verbatim DVD-R, Maxell DVD-R, Verbatim DVD+R and Pioneer DVD-R were the best in this test (they measured error rate, tracking and quality of the HF signal), while Princo DVD-R and *all* other DVD+R media was crap media.

So maybe the media manufacturers should practise a bit before increasing DVD+R speed any more ;)

[cypher_soundz]

@sarahjh69

dvd+R work fine on my ps2 ;)