DVD-9 Burner

[viper3344]

Does anyone know of a dvd9 burner or can all dvd burners burn dvd-9 when the media is out. I mean they read em, why can't they write to them. Or it's a whole new technology with the second layer and all.

[-i-]

nope...

the only way to get multi layer is through injection or photo....

[Sherlock Holmes]

Could you please explain it more ?

[-i-]

you simply can not 'burn' additional layers.

to burn would require a laser that can refocus while burning, not possible, not even for several million dollars. When multi-layer DVD's are made, the master DVD authoring disks, or master DLT tapes, are split. You need seperate masters for each individual layer. Then, the replicator constructs a glass master, which is made via photo-chemical process, the Lans and Pits are etched into glass. From there, a Father stamp is made, and from the father, all the DVD's are made via injection process....

You see, a multi-layer DVD is never burned, nor can it be....

[kevinswystun]

I always wondered about the DVD-9 process. Your explanation is enlightening and in away disappointing. I hope the hardware manufactures find away around it and produce a DVD-9 burner.

[-i-]

here's how multi-layer works...

at night, go look at a window from within your house.

the first thing you see is the reflection of yourself.

now re-focus, now you can see the outside, and not your reflection...

if you can figure out how to get a burner to do that, you're in it to win it, and not to loose!!

[viper3344]

Thank you member .I. You are very smart on the subject. Do you think there will be a new type of cd meduem that holds more then dvd-5?

[kevinswystun]

Here’s a possible solution … Two lasers focused on separate layers, pulsing micro seconds apart at the same point on the DVD R-9. This would solve the, one laser refocus problem. But that seems too obvious and would have already been developed.

[viper3344]

OK, what about this. If the second layer was made from a dvd-r materal and the first layer was made from a dvd rw materal so the laser can burn both the first and second layer. The laser would burn (while burning) through the first rw layer and burn a perminant second layer. So the first and second layer were the same. Then it can focus on the first layer (which it can do because it has to, to read a dvd in the first place) and reburn the first rw materal. Whats wrong with that. I still don't know what you mean about why it cannot focus the two layers because it HAS to to read a dvd-9.

[Doom9]

umm... isn't this thread pointless? the people working on this stuff are certainly not posting here, are they? do a web search on multi-level recording.. that's the most likely solution but is in no way compatible to DVD-9.

[Deepa DvD]

There is already a Dual Layer CD-RW Burner from Sony Corp. THey can just use the same method but use the DVD Lazers,media,etc. for DVD9 -(You can see I am not a expert). I also need help with Daiken Scenarist Pro.Can anybody help me? I would really really appreciate it.The thing I need help with is on how to use it, like insert chapter points & menus.I have read Doom9's, it's great, but I still don't get it.Thanks!:)
SuperDuperDVD@Hotmail.com

[-i-]

wanna link to that dual layer burner?? Because I don't think it's true dual layer, no DVD9 capable...

I would be SERIOUSLY immpressed if it was....

[hortar]

According with Pioneer site the new A-04 supports 9.4G Double Sided DVD-R Media.
Anybody knows if it works ?

http://www.pioneeraus.com.au/multimedia/index.html

[ryutran18]

every burner can do that. open the tray and flip the dvd. itz double sided not dual layered

[hortar]

Thanks ryutran18,

Yes you are right sorry my ignorance, so even Pioneer A-03 can use Double Side DVD-R?
How can I do it?
You say I can open the tray and flip the DVD, can you specify? I need to make two different burn jobs for each side and flip between them correct?

[-i-]

yep, i just burned one actually...

[Deepa DvD]

here is the link:Double Density CD-RW Burner (http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/storage/crx200.shtml) They name it as double density cd-rw burner than dual-layer, but it's the same thing.

[Deepa DvD]

Anybody here from the bay area in California that can help me with Scenarist-Pro?-I live in San Jose.

[-i-]

double density and dual layer are *not* the same....

hell, the name should spell it out for ya...

anyways, I wrote to the DVD forum about this, I hope that they will give us both a correct answer...

keep in mind, the recordable media industry is, in many ways, shady. Take a look at DVD+RW, it is in no way associated with the DVD forum, nor is it an improvement to DVD-RW, it is all marketing and competing markets...

the term "double density" tells me that something is shady...

why not say "dual layer"?

[Deepa DvD]

I dunno bro. I called em' up (Sony Corp.) 'n I asked them if I can burn music to the 1.8GB DD-R/DD-RW(thaZ what they call the double density recordable media) 'n they said I should.The blank media is also out on their site but not in stores.

[jdobbs]

Hmmm.... Even if someone made a dual layer CD-RW, try and find a CD player or CD-ROM that focuses on two different planes??? Don't confuse dual sided or dual density with dual layered. They are three different things.

[Nefarion]

lol, this "double density" is not even a dvd burner. Look closely, doesnt say anywhere it can burn dvd. Only the DD-r and DD-rw, which are DOUBLE DENSITY CD's... NOT DVD's. The burner is only $199 ... That alone should tell you its nothing special...

[Xenobyte99]

Originally posted by Doom9
umm... isn't this thread pointless? the people working on this stuff are certainly not posting here, are they? do a web search on multi-level recording.. that's the most likely solution but is in no way compatible to DVD-9.

The point of this forum is to promote the discussion and exchange of ideas. Getting intelectually stimulated by doom9 forums is fine by me.

[s0nyguy]

he didnt say it was a dvd burner, he was just saying that double density/dual layer burning was possible, although I think he was incorrect. As someone already stated dual layer is different from double density.

[Deepa DvD]

lol:D Did I say it was a DVD Burner? NOOOOOOOOOOOO
I called Sony Corp. and they(their technichian, or whateva) said it's Dual Layer, which I see it is not.(as I stated before, I'm not a Expert)

[Nefarion]

The title of the thread is "DVD-9" ... Posting about cd burners is completely irrelevant here... Sorry, i assumed everyone would be intelligent enough to realize that.

[jdobbs]

Man, this is a tough crowd.

[Doom9]

hell yeah ;) This forum is one of the forums where we actually have reasonably experienced people and quite a number of 'em. forget about DVD-9 burning.. it ain't gonna happen.. it's not only technical.. it's political as well.. the MPAA will go thru hoops trying to shut any such plans down. Multi level recording may eventually make more than 4.7gb possible (we also have bluray), however, as far as I've read it's not in any way compatible to DVD-9 so it would require different hardware.

[FWMan]

I would like to inject my two cent comment.

If you have dual layer DVD9-R (let assume this for a moment).

Then all the fun/excitement of ripped, re-encode and ect...will be gone... that would be a SAD day.

FWMan

[viper3344]

OK guys! I posted this question a long time ago and I am honered to have caused so much crap. I did a little reasearch. All i have to say is this:

1) Double layer is possible with Photo and direct UV data injection

2) It is also possible through stomping layers seperatly (One being translucent) and pressing them together to one disk.

3) It is possible to burn a single layer that has a 89.3425% translucence ratio. (DVD-5, second layer of DVD-9)

4) It is NOT CURRENTLY possible to burn data on a 34.52334% translucency layer. (First layer of DVD-9)

5) It IS STILL however possible (Meaning the technology is there, just not put into effect) to burn a 34.52334% layer on a SINGLE layer DVD. In other words, the technology IS there to burn on the two different layers, but not as ONE disk. You will still have a 4.37GB DVD but possible with either the material of the first layer of a DVD-9 OR!!!!!!!!!! the second layer (Current DVDr's).

6) The problem is being able to burn both types of layer substance on a single disk. According to Napco, they use the UV tecnique but they made a very interesting piont. The first layer of the DVD (the more translucent one) can be made into an RW type materal. Meaning that the first layer material can be re-writable. Note the CAN BE!

7) FINAL PIONT - If a DVD burner could be made to burn the second layer (A DVD-R material) but burning through the first translucent layer creating duplicate data on both layers, why couldn't it go back and re-burn the first layer if it's made from an RW material?

ANSWER - Because the MPAA would shit their pants and I would feel that all of the time I put into this site learing and teaching and becoming a DVD burning expert would be compleatly waisted!;)

Conclusion - Lets not argue about if it is possible or not, instead, reply if you understood these points and post comments concerning the future of DVD buring. Remember to give the leaders of this forum their well diserved props:D and remember, ANY PROTECTION OR BURNING PROBLEMS WILL BE SOLVED BY US LEARNING FROM EACHOTHER AND WORKING THROUGH IT! Keep posting and keep giving ideas! (Even if they are compleatly stupid and B.S.) Because it takes a lot of stupid mistakes to break tough things like DVD burning.

PS - give me a higher rank, and tell Derrow to drop me an e-mail about new stuff in IFOedit cause I got some ideas. (viper3344@hotmail.com)

Viper OUT!

[Tyris]

PS - give me a higher rank, and tell Derrow to drop me an e-mail about new stuff in IFOedit cause I got some ideas.

Umm...

[TRILIGHT]

Shouldn't this be in the "Hardware" forum anyway?? ;)

[mpucoder]

You're right, but it was started, then went off the radar before there was a burning forum.

[DL]

WOW I am glad I read this thread from the start, anyone coming in any place else will be soooooo lost.:o

[Trahald]

possible isnt the word to use.. your right.. just about anything is possible... ask someone if fitting movies on a cd sized disk 20 years was possible and they might put you away. but still possible

or if 120 gb hds were someday possible when 300 mb hds required full height drive bay. possible yeah..

dual layer thats compatible with current dvds (and makeable at home) surreee.. very possible.. but...
going to be awhile before its remotely affordable..

if you have the professional equipment they use to make real dvd9s you can make one at home today

but we are talking about burning them...

so yeah.. the burning the r layer and the rw layer concept sounds good.. but the dye layer on the rw layer would have to be so precise and have a small range between light and darkness(of burned areas) that the media would be extremely expensive . (other wise many players would read pits in the rw layer as a pit in the r layer)

basically id say.. the reason it hasnt come out is because formost
(1) economically not very feasible at the moment
theories about rw layers are nice but lets stick it in a player and see what it has to say about that (ever stuck a cdrw in a old dvdrom.. treats it like a red headed stepchild) the lazers in dvds tend to be kinder to cdrw but thats not a given.. goto vcdhelp and look at the compatibility.. some read dvdr/cdr but not cdrw
(2) at this moment the demand for dvdr is not nearly as great as cdr so rushing to do dual layers is not a great hurry
(3) since the legitimate use (in countries that dont allow fairuse archives of copyrighted material) for dvdr is to save wedding and barmitzvas(sp) captures onto disc -- dvd-5 size is seen as plenty (remembering the demand is rising.. but not like the cdrw boom)
and data backup? as doom 9 said.. there are new technologies that are actually more than theory that will dwarf dvd9 - so there isnt much there.. besides the fact dual sided disks work just fine for that function

anyways.. my argument is a bunch of theory spouting from my head.. doesnt amount to much except possibly 2 cents

the mpaa argument is good.. but honestly, if a hardware company sees any possibility in making money out of a product( [a] will enough people pay the price to buy it compared to [b] how much its gonna costs us to make it)... they will deal with the mpaa later.. you see how little influence the riaa had on cdr(w).. its a booming industry within IT... or the VCR.. trust me.. if there is money to be made and its economically feasible(at this moment) it would be at your local best buy.

-wewk

[DarkAvenger]

I once read a post of a guy who is actually programming the firmware of DVD drives (or was it the steering of the pick-up?), and about half a year ago he said:
At the end of 2002 you will have 4x drives and it happened. He had a 4x already for testing...
He said DVD-9 burning is/will be possible EVEN with current burners, as only a FW upgrade is needed, but of course NO hardware manufacturer will give you such updates, as they rather want to sell new units...
IIRC he said something about 2003 (or was it 2004? Damn, it was some time ago I read this post.) secound/third quarter first launch of DVD-9 burneres are expected...
We'll see...

[Carlos Garcia]

Regular DVD burners upgraded to burn dual layer discs? I'll have to see it to believe it.

[Nefarion]

" Regular DVD burners upgraded to burn dual layer discs? I'll have to see it to believe it. "

He merely stated that he bieleves that it will be possible. But you probably wont "see it" due to ineffeciency factors such as cost + labor. DVD burning companies probably would not waste the time and money on the production of an upgrade product.

[Gil T Pleasure]

Did somebody mention DVD burning? Bad boy! Didn't your mother ever tell you it's dangerous to play with fire? :D :D :D

[klona]

This post started in April and was reconized as out of the forum subject (should be in Hardware).

Please do not make it live again.
But feel free to post in the Hardware section, even if the DVD9 burner question has been answered tons of time.

There is no technical solution today
There is no press release about a future product, and company able to do it, will get a 30% share increase if they do that, so believe me, if pioneer, Apple or another big brand know about a solution, they will let us know, lough and clear

[Carlos Garcia]

Originally posted by -i-
you simply can not 'burn' additional layers.

to burn would require a laser that can refocus while burning, not possible, not even for several million dollars.


You may be right...Sounds like Philips will make it possible for only a few hundred dollars :)

http://www.mybroadcastbuyer.info/article_1334.shtml

[TRILIGHT]

Originally posted by Carlos Garcia
You may be right...Sounds like Philips will make it possible for only a few hundred dollars :)

http://www.mybroadcastbuyer.info/article_1334.shtml

You know, it always really burns (pun intended ;) ) my ass when people come along and rag on theories people posted from YEARS ago! That guy posted April of 2002. That's a year and a half ago dude! Anyway, if you have info to share then do so in a new thread or with a more informational response to an existing one. No need to rag on stuff someone said many years ago.

[BioZ]

A bit pointless maybe, but it is always educational to see how a claim that seemed reasonable less than 2 years ago turns out.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Yep, it's amazing how quickly technology changes!

Next year I've heard that 'Warp Drive' will be a reality. Or is it the year after..... Must get my time machine fixed!

Cheers

[Carlos Garcia]

Originally posted by TRILIGHT
You know, it always really burns (pun intended ;) ) my ass when people come along and rag on theories people posted from YEARS ago! That guy posted April of 2002. That's a year and a half ago dude! Anyway, if you have info to share then do so in a new thread or with a more informational response to an existing one. No need to rag on stuff someone said many years ago.

This is just another example of the "Never say Never" theory. Here we had a claim that dual layer burners couldn't be done for even millions of dollars...I'm actually starting to believe someone may actually come up with a patch for existing burners to burn dual layers with the new dual layer discs. Why not? Only a yr ago they were saying dual layer burners couldn't even be done for millions of dollars :)