Ogg tools features request.

[Gora]

Hi all,

Firstly, thank you very much for your OggCut tool Tobias, it's nothing short of a godsend.

I saw in another post that a user requested the addition of a feature that allows one to enter the desired filesize of a movie so that OggCut searches for the nearest keyfram to allow one to cut it. I must admit, this would be a nice feature, although the utility is very easy to use without it. (DesiredFileSize/CurrentFileSize) x VideoLength works easy enough, and then just slide the slider along to the nearest point.

Another useful feature, although it'd perform the opposite to OggCut would be an OggJoin util that allows one to join OGM files. I am currently not aware of any way of joining 2 OGM's so would find this util increadibly useful.

That is my wish list for now. It's not a demand! I know that all work done here is voluntary and done in your own time. I can only admire the abilities of those of you that do make these utils and express my gratitude.

Cheers
Dean.

[ChristianHJW]

HeHe,

good thing to start this thread Gora, i really could have thought about this myself !

Tobias, you're a star and we need a multichannel Vorbis DSF :D !

[Ripe73]

HI!

Well i have a little request a little clock in the right upper screen :D how much time left or how long the movie has run.

Thanks again and good luck with your job!!!

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW

Tobias, you're a star and we need a multichannel Vorbis DSF :D !

Me believes it's closer than you think:D

[osgr0Lag]

I've just had the same idea of joining two OGM and, while waiting for someone to solve this problem I think there is (at least) one workaround for that.

There is a program called Goldwave (shareware I think, don't remember now ;) ) that can manipulate ogg Vorbis files with a plug-in from the program site. With this program you can open your OGM files, you will get only the audio part, that will be deflashed into WAV. This two WAV files can be joined and reencoded to OGG. The way to get a video-only-avi editable by VDub is on this forum, search for demultiplexing ogm. Then you only have to join the two video files with VDub, the two ogg with goldwave and mux them. Be very aware of de-sync problems at the middle of the movie. I know this is a ***very*** crappy way but is the only I know.

Hope will help

osgr0Lag

[Koepi]

Joining two ogg files is as easy as:

copy /b file1.ogg+file2.ogg target.ogg

Just a hint...

[Gora]

I have tried the copy /b .... on several occasions and it didn't work.

[outlyer]

Originally posted by Koepi
Joining two ogg files is as easy as:

copy /b file1.ogg+file2.ogg target.ogg

Just a hint...

well, as I just asked in the "duplicated" thread, would this make a legl (aka standard) ogg? I don't know oggs internally but I guess they have some kind of headers and this way them would maybe be incorrect.

[Koepi]

I wouldn't post it if it wasn't producing a valid ogg stream.

[A_Pleite]

Originally posted by osgr0Lag
I've just had the same idea of joining two OGM and, while waiting for someone to solve this problem I think there is (at least) one workaround for that.

There is a program called Goldwave (shareware I think, don't remember now ;) ) that can manipulate ogg Vorbis files with a plug-in from the program site. With this program you can open your OGM files, you will get only the audio part, that will be deflashed into WAV. This two WAV files can be joined and reencoded to OGG. The way to get a video-only-avi editable by VDub is on this forum, search for demultiplexing ogm. Then you only have to join the two video files with VDub, the two ogg with goldwave and mux them. Be very aware of de-sync problems at the middle of the movie. I know this is a ***very*** crappy way but is the only I know.

Hope will help

osgr0Lag

An OgmVDub-version (just like vdub-asf) would be much easier ;)

[Koepi]

A_Pleite,

so you're going to code it? Damn cool, I asked Avery some weeks ago and he didn't answer, so it's really up to you!

Nice to have so many people spending their time for the wellness of the cmmunity!

SCNR,
Koepi

[A_Pleite]

hey, don´t be mean :(
I´m just going into Delphi, the frst thing I could do for the next few months would be a bitratecalculator

[oddball]

copying OGG files causes the time stmaps to go wrong. Say you have a 15 minute OGG and a 10 minute OGG. You copy the two together using Koepi's method and you get a file that you CAN play fine in say Winamp for instance. BUT it does not show as a 15 minute clip but takes the second merged OGG time of 10 minutes. This causes problems if you try to use OGGMux becauseOGGMux only appears to try and Mux in the last second part of the merged OGG file. It ignore the first part from what I can tell altogether.

If anyone finds a way to create a way to join OGG audio files correctly so that the file is valid to OGGMux and shows the correct time stamp in Winamp etc I would be greatfull :)

[outlyer]

@Koepi:
I don't doubt you'll only post things that work but what I mean was exactly what was pointed by oddball, I don't know how an ogg stream is internally but if it has some sort of time tags, a binary concatenation (copy /b) WILL NOT make a 100% correct stream. This doesn't mean it will not play, but it will probably make it hard to handle by some (future) editors.

If them doesn't have any kind of time tags just forget all I said :P

[Koepi]

OGG is designed for streaming and error robust, means, a stream cn have dropped pakets or duplicates for example.
So it is designed that you can simply copy them together.

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

Try playback in linux and it should work. If there is a command-line version of ogg123 for windows, you should try playing the resulting file with that. Should work like charme.

So, don't bug me, it's spec-conform to simply concatenate those files (read the archives over at xiph.org...)

[oddball]

As was said Koepi. Playback is not a problem. But the timestamps get mashed so progs like OGGMux will not write out a correctly muxed OGM file from a merged OGG file.

[Charlieds]

@Koepi
With HeadAC3he i've encoded first 1-5000 AC3 frames to ph2.ogg, then 5001-1000 AC3 frames to ph2.ogg.
Joined with copy /b ph2.ogg+ph3.ogg ph4.ogg
Playing with Winamp 2.80 is ok and the timestamp is correct, but looking at the file info i can see 2 chained streams with different lenghts and serial numbers. The plugin is in_vorbis.dll 1.2 b3 by P.P.
This is something different than a single ogg stream.

Muxing ph4.ogg with your OGGMux 0.8.4 gives me a mute ogm file and the file size is only slightly bigger than the avi, probably the muxing failed with that kind of .ogg file.

[Koepi]

As you request, I repeat myself:

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

Maybe you understand it now?

[oddball]

Or just more fussy about accuracy ;)

[osgr0Lag]

ok, could we discuss about some right way to do that under windows?. I've just downloaded sources from Tobias' OggCut and got a Delphi Manual. I presume that from that code would be easy :confused: to do an OggJoin, as OggCut does all functions we need for that. But I know mainly nothing about Ogg structure... (that is, how is an ogg file, a for what is used each variable) I'd thank help about that. Please don't blame me for knowing nothing :D

[Foambullet]

To get back on topic, Ogg tools features request., I have a feature request for OggMux. I think it would be nice if we could mux additional streams or chapter information into an already existing ogm. For example, I ripped Snatch about two weeks ago. Now that chapter support has been released, I'd like to put that info into the ogm without having to re-rip. And so far demuxing ogms to re-mux has been a large pain in the butt.

[Koepi]

Right, but codeing that is fun.

Understood.

:P

[Foambullet]

Great! I hate feature requests 'cause I hate asking for more stuff than a very generous unpaid volunteer has already given us! :) Luckily you are very receptive Koepi. Thank you so much for listening. :)

[oddball]

I thought we was on topic? I want OGG join in any damn tool that will support it. OGGMux or otherwise ;)

[ProfDrMorph]

Originally posted by Charlieds
@Koepi
With HeadAC3he i've encoded first 1-5000 AC3 frames to ph2.ogg, then 5001-1000 AC3 frames to ph2.ogg.
Joined with copy /b ph2.ogg+ph3.ogg ph4.ogg
Playing with Winamp 2.80 is ok and the timestamp is correct, but looking at the file info i can see 2 chained streams with different lenghts and serial numbers. The plugin is in_vorbis.dll 1.2 b3 by P.P.
This is something different than a single ogg stream.

Muxing ph4.ogg with your OGGMux 0.8.4 gives me a mute ogm file and the file size is only slightly bigger than the avi, probably the muxing failed with that kind of .ogg file. Originally posted by Koepi
As you request, I repeat myself:

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

It's not my fault that all those windows implementations suck as they are flawed!

Maybe you understand it now?

So you say your OggMux tool sucks because it IS a windows implementation of the Ogg specs? Charlied said that this "copy"-stuff worked with WinAmp but not with OggMux.

Whatever. Fact is: we want to join two .ogm files so that we have one .ogm that is NOT "chained" even though this would be specs complient. Who's willing to write this tool? I can code in C/C++ but I know nothing about this DirectShow filter stuff. I would like to help writing such a tool but I think somebody else could do this in much less time since I need to learn about this DirectShow stuff first.

[Koepi]

I definatly won't write it as I have enough of bitching and bugging for now.

Can't you just take what's there and be fine with it?

I don't want to do further developing if this trend continues.

[avih]

wb koepi ;)

avi

[Charlieds]

@Koepi
First, i'm totally happy with the existing tools, your XviD binaries and OggMux included: in fact i don't feel the need of a Oggjoin tool right now.
I was just pointing that your suggestion of copy /b doesn't work for me and that could generate more confusion=more wrong bug reports to Oggmux.

Sorry, but i cannot see all that bitching and bugging in my previous post, i was just trying to avoid it to you.

[kxy]

copy binary worked for me, that is why I posted on the other thread. If that doesn't work, can you try using a non-windows system by pipe the 2 streams then ftp it back to your windows.

If you don't have a non-windows system handy, try Cygwin/XFree86. I am not sure that works, I never use that since I have a unix box also.

[Rasi]

well, this cant be the final solution though... in my case it worked for audiofiles perfectly, but the timestamp was corrupt.. as mentioned before.. so there definately IS a problem there... and what made mp3 what it is today? tools that made you do everything with it you want... and thats what we will need in the future for ogg too, we want it to become a free-standard, dont we?

i am no coder and i dont mind in the moment, cause i can prevent getting to small/big files , but such tools should be there at some point.. and telling everyone to use a different OS cant be the right way *G*

[ProfDrMorph]

Originally posted by Koepi
I definatly won't write it as I have enough of bitching and bugging for now.

Can't you just take what's there and be fine with it?

I don't want to do further developing if this trend continues.
I neither wanted to imply that I don't like your work nor that I want you to do even more.

I simply agree with Rasi that a file format needs tools for doing certain things with it to become widely accepted.

[outlyer]

Originally posted by Charlieds
@Koepi
First, i'm totally happy with the existing tools, your XviD binaries and OggMux included: in fact i don't feel the need of a Oggjoin tool right now.
I was just pointing that your suggestion of copy /b doesn't work for me and that could generate more confusion=more wrong bug reports to Oggmux.

Sorry, but i cannot see all that bitching and bugging in my previous post, i was just trying to avoid it to you.

@Koepi:
Well, you can apply the same to my posts. I had no intention of bugging you, I like OggMux a lot as it makes faster ogg muxing and a bit more powerful (like title setting, which I believe is not possible with graphedit).

BUT, blame windows' implementation of ogg streams of what you want, if a solution could lead to future problems we think that we should at least warn about the possible problem.

I repeat, there's no intention of bugging you, neither of bitching you of mae you angry, there's only the intention to avoid possible future problems.

[alky]

bitching here bitching there..... i need to join 5 ogg streams because i captured 5 files from tv that need to be joined now.

with ther copy /b way i get the known fucked up file with wrong timestamp. because of this i cannot use the file in oggmus/oggcut and not even in winamp if i want it to save to disk in wav (for another reencoding)

a copy /b file is NOT useable for any further use in an ogg media stream. i would say this is a pretty big problem wich should be on top of every ogg, especially the vorbis developers' todo list. without that it will never beat conventionally avi (as far as i see this...)

i have the same problem as the most people complaining here: i cannot code and i do not know anything about ogg/vorbis filestructure, but i thik it would not be that hard to make some kind of "timestamp correcter"...
another way of dealing with this could be something in the dsf to ignore the timestamp of the ogg file and just go on until there is no data.

the only thing left for me is to go back to crappy avi/mp3 with my tv capture :(

[gnoshi]

Ok. This may have already been suggested. Maybe it is stupid. Maybe I don't care, but maybe try this:

Use the copy method to put all the ogg files together. Oh dear, timestamps are screwed.
Ok. Open the newly merged ogg file in graphedit, demux it, and remux it back to an ogg all in graphedit. Run the graph.
Does the new output ogg file have screwed timestamps? Does it work at all? (I'd try it but I am at work and don't have access to the tools here and now).

gnoshi

(maybe I'm suffering nicotine withdrawl symptoms; cut me a little slack)

[alky]

doesnt work.

i tried it to be sure, but it was forseeable because with graphedit you use the same filters as oggmux/cut uses for handling the operations.

the oggsplitter stopps delivering data as soon as the timestamp says the file ends.

[alky]

hm just found out:

A.ogg 1,5MB 3:19
B.ogg 1,8MB 4:06

C.ogg (copy /b a.ogg+b.ogg c.ogg) 3,3MB and WinAMP tells it is 4:06 long
(but it plays 7:25 long!, others saw this too, winamp tells the length of the second merged file)

D.ogg (remux of C.ogg with graphedit) 1,5MB 3:19 (really that long, not just winamp telling)

why is winamp telling me the binary merged file is as long as the second file and graphedit uses the lenght of the first file?

[Koepi]

I'll try and see how far I get with replacing the usual oggmux graph with a timeline project.
With that it should be possible to "reset" the timeline to actually meet the real media runtime.

May take a while though, don't rush me, don't bitch around :)

(It might become an app of it's own, a "OggJoin" - this would be the fastest way to do it. I was thinking of making an all-in-one app but this takes more time...)

Regards,
Koepi

[alky]

a seperate app is as perfect and welcome as an all in one app... thanks, and take your time.

[Emp3r0r]

@Koepi: say a possible silent bitcher ;) wants to learn how to read, handle, write OGM files using tobias's filters... where would one go to learn about such a thing? How did you learn what you needed to know to create oggmux?

[Koepi]

msdn.microsoft.com

[sillKotscha]

Originally posted by alky
hm just found out:

A.ogg 1,5MB 3:19
B.ogg 1,8MB 4:06

C.ogg (copy /b a.ogg+b.ogg c.ogg) 3,3MB and WinAMP tells it is 4:06 long
(but it plays 7:25 long!, others saw this too, winamp tells the length of the second merged file)

D.ogg (remux of C.ogg with graphedit) 1,5MB 3:19 (really that long, not just winamp telling)

why is winamp telling me the binary merged file is as long as the second file and graphedit uses the lenght of the first file?

as I found out - your first ogg must be larger than your second... and joining is as easy as Koepi mentioned:


Joining two ogg files is as easy as:

copy /b file1.ogg+file2.ogg target.ogg

Just a hint...

cheers Sill

[alky]

sill:

if i could make "thefirst" bigger than "thesecond", i would. but that is no always possible.

[sillKotscha]

sorry for my input :angry: