Is there a reliable method to Copy SVCDs - multiple generations

[psantucc]

Greetings all.

I make SVCDs from VHS media which would not be preserved otherwise; this is my reason for the hobby. Toward that end, I always assumed that SVCDs would be freely and easily duplicable, so that the media would be 'backed up' by as many people who had the desire to see it. The hope is that widespread storage results in data safety.

I have gone through quite a lot of trouble to capture and author the SVCDs (with a lot of help from the Doom9 FAQs - Thanks!), and am preparing to distribute my first sets. I even bought a new CDRW drive since my old one was beginning to kick up errors.

Now the hitch. I have tried several methods to copy SVCDs, and have not had repeatable success. I should note that when I say 'copy', I expect the features I have come to expect from digital copies; no generation loss and no difference between master and copy.

Is this an attainable goal for SVCD, and if not, why? How can it be impossible to make a perfect copy of SVCD if ISO 9660s have to be perfect or useless?

Here are the details of my system and what I have already tried, with results:

PII 500 128MB RAM
PLEXTOR 1610A CDRW drive
LITE-ON DVD-ROM drive
Windows 98 SE
Auto Insert notification off
DMA for CD-ROMS off (also tried ON)

Nero 5.5.7 Copy CD function, Write 16X: Disc unplayable by standalones; readable (but not playable) by Plextor drive

CloneCD 3.3, all defaults, read from Plextor and write image back to it, 16X write: Disc playable on standalones with visible errors. Playable from Plextor drive without visible errors.

CloneCD 3.3, all defaults, read from Plextor and write image back to it, 8X write: Disc playable on standalones with no visible errors; copy of the resultant disc unplayable.

CDRDAO read from LITE-ON, write to PLextor: PLayable with errors. Copy of the resultant disc unplayable.

Filewise copy of the AVSEQ0.MPG file to hard disc, MPEG remux with CDxxRIP, make new SVCD from the resultant file with VCDImager, burn with CDRDAO 16x: No visible errors on standalone or computer; however, a filewise copy from the resultant disc fails (unable to read from source device).

Things I'll try on my own:
Better Media - I've got some Imation to have a go with.
Slow down read/write.

Any more ideas? Are any of you successfully making multiple-generation copies? How?

Thanks,

Pat

[willster2k]

is it possible for you to store your original image files ??? eg .bin and .cue files

[AbuNidal]

I have had serious problems as well when trying to make 2nd-generation copies, for both SVCDs and VCDs. They use the same technique to store more data at the cost of reliability. (sector size of 2324bytes with no error-correction)

The best way to get the least amount of errors for me was creating an image with the max settings for error correction and slower reading-speed, but one could still notice some minor hitches, no matter if played by PC or standalone.

Of course, keeping the images circumvents this issue - but as harddisk-space is limited in general, I think this problem needs to be discussed!

[htc10825]

psantucc & AbuNidal:

when you create the VCD/SVCD, preserve a CD as the "master CD" only for duplication. Then use Plextor CD-Reader under 2x-4x speed to read the image #1 by CDRWIN (all error checks enabled!), do the same to create image #2 on other (physical) HDD(for speed reason). Compare the two *.bin files byte by byte (i.e. fc /b c:\image1.bin F:\image2.bin or do ti in Windows Commander 4.xx "compare by contents"). When the tow images match, you get a very,very good copy, you can burn it at 8x-16x speed. Preserve the "master CD" for next use. When the two images dont match, repeate this step and pray.

Important: the "CloneCD" is not suitable for such use. It will ignore many read errrors. There is a small tool to do the same but only for tracks on audio-CD. May be I´ll search for it and give a try

htc10825

[Zeppeliner]

clonecd worked like a charm for me... preserved chapters and all

[htc10825]

@Zeppeliner

1) when you use CDRWin, it will keep also all information.
2) when you use clonecd, it will not ensure that you get a 100% copy.
in other words, it is not reliable. If you are lucky luke, you can copy the svcd on-the-fly in nero or so without using the clonecd.(if the cd and the cd-reader are in good status). My methord is the only reliable one.

[Spawn]

True & False,

CloneCD is more than adequate for the task of 1:1 SVCD copying.

Although htc10825 IS RIGHT when he says CloneCD will fix errors, that doesn't mean it has to, this feature can be disabled.

Use CloneCD with full "READ SubChannel" (Not technically needed since the subchannel doesn't actually contain Mode 2 Form 2 data, just cd position information like track indices, however if you want a perfectly 1:1 copy), and Fast ERROR skip with error correction set to "none" (Obviously, an any error found will be copied not FIXED).

I've made multiple generation copies using this method with no failures or visible quality reductions yet. Note, I don't have a fancy writer or anything, just an old Yamaha 6X.

-Spawn

[Zeppeliner]

Originally posted by htc10825
1) when you use CDRWin, it will keep also all information.


I actually tried backing up the same disc with cdrwin before trying clonecd (to bin/cue), for some reason it did not backup the selection indexes.

2) when you use clonecd, it will not ensure that you get a 100% copy.


I agree fully with Spawn on this, see above post.

[Faceman101]

I wanted to make a copy of LOTR for a friend and for some reason the copies I made for him didn't work. I had the original BIN and CUE from the net and burned with Nero. Once I tried to copy with Nero, it would turn out a coaster, CDRWIN wouldn't recognize the disc, CloneCD would copy and burn but play back was jerky. So I used VCDGear to copy the MPEG from disc and fix errors and get rid of padding. What I later realized was that burning the BIN with Nero made a working copy, but it was not able to copy it again.

Since you are making SVCD from your VHS, what program are you using to make the original SVCD?