Linux

[Calum]

Hiya all, i was just in the downloads section of the excellent doom9.org page, and i noticed there is no indication of which OS each of the downloadable programs runs under.
Since i have downloaded many of them and run them under windows already, i assume they are ALL for windows.

I just installed Linux, so i am anxious to find out if there are any plans for a Linux or UNIX download section with all the similar video/audio editing stuff for that OS available on it.
I am sure many people would find it useful.
If such a repository already exists, please don't hesitate to let me know where it is!
ta!

[Calum]

Well THANKS, guys, nice to know you care...

I can't believe NONE of you know ANYTHING about video editing using Linux!
Come On!

Any ideas for alternative programs? What about ports? any ideas if VirtualDub and FlasKMPEG will be ported for *NIX?
Anybody?
hello?

Right, i'm off to fire up Google, and find a video editing site that at least admits the existence of Linux. I only came here first because when using windows i found the doom9 site to be almost definitive when it comes to video editing...
If i find a decent alternative SITE, i will post the address here, not that anybody will notice...

[Doom9]

let's face it.. while linux is a good server os it's not ready for the desktop yet. Multimedia is one of the strengths of Windows. Linux doesn't really offer a single multimedia architecture that covers every need and makes it easy for developers.

There are some tools to encode but I don't recall the names (maybe something is in my divx4 linux encoding guide.. check it), vstrip can be compiled under linux, cdrdao, toolame and lame work and when it comes to players you probably know more than I already.

The silence should tell you enough.. we all use Windows here... I think mostly for practical considerations because we sure don't love Microsoft. But to make one's life harder for political considerations is quite another thing. I couldn't run my page if it weren't for windows (though on the server side there's a lot of apache and *nix to be found).

[Calum]

thank you for replying doom9, but your answer, as you know, is totally unhelpful.

The silence tells me nothing except that you are blind to what is going on in the world of computing.

statements such as "Linux is not a good desktop OS" or whatever it was are rubbish. The OS is much sounder than windows on a number of levels. That is not up for dispute, the issue here is, how many programs have been written for linux, what do they do, where do we get them from. Out of your thousands of posters, i sure bet they are not "all windows users" by a LONG shot.

i appreciate what you are doing with the site here and i think this site IS the best for video editing in windows, but don't you call yrself the best dvd ripping site on the net or something? that just isn't true if you only support one (of many popular) platforms.
What about those people who run MacOS (btw, it's UNIX too now, try telling me MacOS is no use for multimedia) or BeOS (designed for audiovisuals from the ground up)?

These forums have been a waste of time for me (not the site, the site is fantastic!). I am sure you have the best intentions at heart and i say again, i really do applaud you for your effort, but if you think i am going to continue running that bloated virus trap of an OS just so i can edit videos, think again.

Anybody else got any useful linux video editing hints for any other concerned users who might be reading this topic? i am sure a whole bunch of people may be flicking through who use linux already and want to know the exact same thing i do, so maybe people can post for their benefit even if my post pissed them off...
This is Calum, going back to his real OS and signing out.
good luck playing with your toys, folks...

Here's a good start for anybody else with the same question i had. (http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/)

[Calum]

here is the answer to my own question.
It's not comprehensive, but maybe it'll help other shunned souls like myself...

NOTE: AS OF TIME OF WRITING, none of the image tags work. I included a few screenshots in my post but they are all coming up as links to the image location instead of actual pictures.
If you are trying to get to the relevant webpage, click the second link under each heading (if there are two, some don't have any image link you see). If you want to see the picture, click the first link. It's possible that some conscientious webadmin will fix this, so if you see screenshots here, ignore what i just said! ;) )

kino
http://www.schirmacher.de/arne/kino/screenshot.jpg
http://www.schirmacher.de/arne/kino/
This is a free nonlinear AVI editor, download and lots of useful info on the site too.

Broadcast 2000
http://heroinewarrior.com/bcast2000.php3
This is a free program which could rival Premiere 6.
A Shame they have been scared into no longer distributing it. That's what your beloved Micro$oft does for the computing world...

MainActor
http://www.linux-user.de/ausgabe/2000/01/Multimedial/MainActor_SaveMPEG_s.jpg
http://www.mainconcept.com/products.shtml
This program costs $99 and will edit most video formats (so it says on the site) including Quicktime, AVI and MPEG.

dvgrab
http://web.utk.edu/~klug/meetings/feb10-01/xawtv.jpg
http://www.schirmacher.de/arne/dvgrab/dvgrab_features_e.html
This is a free program which captures the output from your video machine or camcorder as an AVI file, or files, for further editing in another program.

OpenQuicktime
http://openquicktime.sourceforge.net/OpenQuicktimeSmallLogo.jpg
http://openquicktime.sourceforge.net/
This is a project to emulate QuicktimePlayer for Linux for free.
There is also a burgeoning attempt to create a Quicktime editor for Linux here.

ffmpeg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=ffmpeg.sourceforge.net/ffmpeg-button.gif&imgrefurl=http://ffmpeg.sourceforge.net/&h=31&w=88&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dffmpeg%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
http://ffmpeg.sourceforge.net/
This is a decoder/encoder/editor program for AVI, MPEG, ASF, RealMedia, Flash and other formats. It also provides functions for creating and capturing streaming audio and video.
As with most of these programs this one is totally free.

Here's a link to a really good site listing tons of downloadable Linux Video and Audio related software, heven't had time to look through it all yet myself! (http://www.linuxvideo.com/)

I hope this is of some help to anybody who has the same questions as me. I am astonished that in all my searching, nobody has provided a comprehensive list, with reviews and downloads of all these (and many more) products.
This is what i expected to find here at doom9.org, since that's exactly what you get for windows programs here.
What with linux being open source, and many of the program licences being free, coupled with the fact that a lot of UNIX users are programmers, it stands to reason that projects will come along faster for Linux than for windows, and i hope to see some real development in this area in the future. Maybe you could start a linux section on your site, now you know all these programs exist?

Can i just ask you, as an aside, regarding your comment about how this site wouldn't exist without windows...
Would it exist without Unix?
I'm not trying to start a war, i'm just pointing out that your fear of a new operating system is not too rational :D
Seriously though, no offence, doom9, i think you do a great job here, i don't see how you find the time as it is!

[Koepi]

wtf?

You come around here, insulting people with your oh-so-good knowledge?

You sure are a blind linsuxx noob.

Spare us with your view of the world.

I for myself run linsuxx, *BSD, AND winDOSe.

Guess why?

Linsuxx isn't good enough for encoding yet.
Sure, we have transcode, we have avi2divx and mpeg2divx etc, but those all are crap compared with the windows tools.

Now go back to your slashdot and make some hype.

Very annoyed by your destructive behaviour (people like you make linsuxx unliked),

Koepi

[Calum]

yes you be annoyed, i hope you can't sleep tonight.
i am not trying to cause trouble, and i don't represent Linux in any way, i am just a bit concerned that doom9 states quite clearly that Linux is not good enough for video editing when it actually is.

I won't deign to reply to your puerile comments since i am only here to try and get together some kind of knowledge base for people who want good software to download.

On that subject,for those who are here for the software and not the bickering, here's a link for Broadcast 2000 which seems to work fine. I knew there'd be some mirrors even though the official site has been scared into removing the download for the program:

http://linux.tucows.com/mmedia/preview/59371.html

[trickykid]

hmmm... if linux isn't good enough for movie making/editing.. how come Pixar uses it to make such movies like Shrek, and Toy Story.. and every other movie they come out with.. hmmm..

just a thought...

[Calum]

and another thing, how can you say i'm destructive when i am the only person here,including doom9 (no offence intended doom9) who can be arsed to do the research into Linux video editing and post the results for the benefit of others?

[MaTTeR]

@Calum

Clearly the way you worded your messages you had intent to tick some people off. We don't need threads like "My stuff is better...". Are you offering to write a comprehensive guide for Linux video?

I for one like and use Linux all the time myself. Obviously it's not mainstream, so the currently available tools are not very intuitive. So I ask myself, just because I dislike M$ should I make more work for myself by using Linux to do my video/audio encoding? I think the question answers itself.

@trickykid
These movies are made using various flavored UNIX OS types. Mostly it's SGI IRIX for high-end 3D editing. Maybe I'm wrong but I've yet to see Pixar release it's software on Linux. That would be cool though.

[Calum]

Now this is more like it! people are actually talking about this subject!
MaTTeR,
I wasn't trying to tick anybody off, just trying to stimulate people into sharing what they know about Linux video software. If people are in the market to be ticked off, they will find a catalyst.

Linux cant be *that* much of a minority OS that there's NOTHING about it on the site, can it?

MaTTeR, again, thanx for your input...

[MaTTeR]

Calum,

If you go back and read your original posts you will see how agressive they are worded. Nobody was looking to get ticked off, your messages basically jumped off the page and slapped the users in the face. We don't need that here as I'm sure you understand why.

Now...again I ask if you were writing a Linux guide?:D I ask because judging by your messages you have gave me the impression that you consider yourself an advanced Linux user. True? If so maybe we can make this thread useful after all.

I'm in the middle of working with Mac OS X and might consider putting together a FAQ later on down the road as well. Now that I think about it...video tools for Mac OS X could be even further developed than Linux. Say it isn't so:)

[Koepi]

Still too arrogant and offensive.

It's not too hard to find
avifile.sf.net or mplayer.<forgot>.hu

(yupp, you can encode with them). Transcode is the best available solution on *NIX until now, but it doesn't compile on leet mandrake/redhat distris *eg*

If you enter the application names i gave you into the linux no.1 portal, freshmeat.net, guess what you get.

But you just DEMAND things and that's why I DON'T GIVE it to you.


There's a clearly other tone necessary to make me help you.

Still very annoyed about so much ignorance+arrogance...

Koepi

[Calum]

But you just WANT things and that's why I don't GIVE it to you.
so you give things only to people who don't want them do you? how helpful.
I just thought it would be nice to have an archive of Linux programs on here as well as windows ones, and doom9 said, basically, "no chance, nobody uses Linux". I thought maybe OTHER PEOPLE might be interested in it too, and since people are posting here, that might well be true.

MaTTeR, no, i have only just started using Linux. Last week in fact. I don't know why you think i am advanced, i say in my first post that i only just installed it. If i was at all advanced i would not need to ask the question in the first place.
Also, of course MacOS is better developed than Linux, there are many reasons, which i won't go into here, as this is not a 'My OS is better than yours' discussion.

If you read my first post,people, i think you will find it to be totally reasonable. I just took umbrage at being told by doom9 that the thousands of users not posting a reply proved that nobody is interested in Linux. I felt that the undertone was "shut up and go away".

If it makes anybody feel any better I promise i am just trying to get people to talk about digital video for Linux on this forum because, frankly, this is the best digital video site i have come across so far.

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Calum
[B]
MaTTeR, no, i have only just started using Linux. Last week in fact.
Well you made some very strong statements to Doom9 for only having used it for one week. Now I see they were based on 7 days of Linux usage?? I'm nt sure how you can make a statement like "The OS is much sounder than windows on a number of levels". That statement led me to believe you were an expereienced Linux user.


Also, of course MacOS is better developed than Linux
I said Mac OS X, there is a big difference. Linux has been out far longer than X.


If you read my first post,people, i think you will find it to be totally reasonable.
First post was fine but the 2nd was certainly unreasonable as well as your comments to Doom9.

MaTTeR->Politely unsubscribing to this thread now:confused:

[Doom9]

I just took umbrage at being told by doom9 that the thousands of users not posting a reply proved that nobody is interested in Linux. I felt that the undertone was "shut up and go away".

there's clearly a misunderstanding here and you're interpreting something where there's nothing to interprete. I'm a straight to the point guy.. when I tell you to get lost you will know it and there will be no ambiguity. I merely meant to say what I said.. there's not much user interest in ripping in Linux. Not zero interest but very little. Despite its size I have a pretty good overview over what goes on in the forum.. plus I get all the reader feedback and there's really not much demand for guides for other platforms.. there is some, but not enough that would make it worthwile for me to spend the time. Even as it is I have virtually zero free time. But that doesn't mean I would refuse to put up a linux guide.. in fact there's already one online (divx4 guides section) so if you write another one just mail it to me and I will put it online.

[Calum]

okay, i may have only used linux for a week, but i am no dafty. I have certainly been doing my research for a lot longer than that. I am an avid reader and have been following the linux phenomenon for a couple of years now. When i say a week, i mean that's how long i have had hands on access on my own computer at home. there are a number of reasons for this.

Doom 9, i am honestly sorry if i caused you any offence whatsoever. This site is marvelous and i will take this opportunity to say thanks for having this excellent resource here. I did not mean you were offensive, i just meant fair enough, you might not be an avid linux user, but maybe some people are and maybe they should pool their resources. i have been searching around and there's very few sites that pool knowledge about video editing for linux. Since this is far and away the best video editing site i have seen so far, i thought here would be the logical place to start my questions.

I didn't mean for anybody to get offended, or for any of this arguing to start. to me this is all a waste of space, why aren't we talking about the subject in hand?
Thanks for pointing me in the direction of those guides, by the way. I am unlikely to ever write a list of multimedia software for linux to be submitted for your approval, as i see i am already unpopular with some people here, and they have made it clear that i should not ask questions until i have more experience, knowledge and something to offer. I do not agree with this but i have the sense enough to respect it.

I won't be posting in this topic anymore, (i may post in other topics though, unless people cry me down there too!) any other gems i come up with will be posted in a linux forum, where people are already using the OS, so my comments will be relevant. I *will* be reading this topic though, if anybody else has something they wish to add...

As i said, no offence intended, sorry if it seemed that way, thanks to doom9 for being helpful, hope somebody can add something constructive on this topic in the future!

All the best to you all, Calum.

[DSPguru]

why speculating ?
i guess Doom9 has statistics of its users' OS.
can you share it with us, doom9 ?

there are about 500 visitors in my site everyday, and you can see (http://sm6.sitemeter.com/default.asp?action=stats&site=s12DSPguru&report=19) there ain't much of linux users :(.

although i would love to see more linux users here, i must admit there ain't much atm.

[Doom9]

well.. these percentages change on a daily basis but unix/linux have a share of about 1%.

anyways.. I actually know more about linux that you might think.. I tried out various distributions over the years and even ran linux as my primary OS for over 3 months until I got tired of having to delete 3 out of 5 applications again because they simply wouldn't compile. last summer I even worked as a programmer on a solaris box for 3 months.. and learned a lot more. I also follow the linux development via computer mags (CT.. ) so my opinion on Windows being a better multimedia OS is not just out of the blue. And the fact that we do have linux users among the mods but they're also using windows for their rip purposes shows an even clearer picture.

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by Doom9
unix/linux have a share of about 1%.that's pretty much close the case..

[Waltarro]

I know this thread is a month old, but
maybe its time to at least pay a bit more
attention to linux as a playback option.

Other than Xine and Mplayer, neither of
which are that great, there is very little developement for video.

I say this because I'm sure a lot of us
have old computers hooked up to our tv's for video playback. Now with Windows xp product activation, who wants to pay $200
to run a computer for just the purpose of
movie playback. Something to think about?

[Urschl]

have old computers hooked up to our tv's for video playback.

You are totally right, xine and mplayer do a great job as a player

[twistee]

I guess im just an idiot but i still cant get mplayer to work...i have never been anything to compile on linux :) (everyone else does it for me) And since i havent get the internet or anything like that working on it, i always have to go back to windows. It would be cool to have a list of linux programs though (and instructions)...even though i already know most of them, its easier for people just starting.

[yokem55]

The thing with linux and multimedia, is that what it needs is not more players for various formats or other applications for editing and encoding, it needs a standardized multimedia API framework. There needs to be an api that clearly defines how codecs, muxers, splitters etc should be organized, accessed, and used by software, and how they output to hardware. It needs to have a similar role that VFW and DirectShow have in Windows, and Quicktime has on the Mac. Once the api framework is in place, the real nice, heavily featured players can be developed, without them haveing to worry about handeling codecs and low level output etc...

What linux has right now is just a smorgasborg of libraries that can't do anything without a whole heck of a lot of work on the part of the developer of the player.

[Nightweaver]

I found this a couple days ago ... it's a guide for ripping and encoding DVDs in Linux using either XviD or libavcodec, and LAME for audio. It looks quite good, and I'd probably use it; except I'm more familiar with the Windows process (not to mention my Windows machine is the newer, faster one with the DVD drive, and my Linux box is the older one that lives in my bedroom and has no DVD...)

http://www.bunkus.org/dvdripping4linux/index.html

Hopefully someone will find it useful ;)