Help with X264 encodes pls

[jamesj84]

Hello all,

I been trying a lot of programs to help me with my conversion process of converting my blurays.

With trying to keep a decent quality and sound i am expecting about 10-15gb per movie.

BDRB using CRF 18 - Audio AC3 448 i got a 25gb film to 15gb in 3 hours.
ConvertToX using the same values etc i got the film to 17gb in size.
Handbreak - Using a CRF of 18, plus again AC3 448 audio it took 9 hours but went down to 4.5gb in size
RipBot - also CRF 18. AC3 448 audio. The file size was 6gb roughly.

I was expecting to get similar results to BDRB & convertToX.
Handbreak is obviously doing a hell of a lot of work somewhere. WHat is handbreak doing that im not aware of it doing if that makes sence.

My Purpose is to back up my crrent collection. Time is not an issue. Id rather 8 hours if im getting the best quality.

[sneaker_ger]

Most options change quality, not just CRF. You can get the same result with all those programs, because they all use x264. It's just a matter of using the same settings.

As a matter of finding your personal settings, using x264's presets has proved to be a very good option and is recommended for most users.
It basically works in a few steps:
1. Pick a preset: These range from "ultrafast" to "placebo". Since you are OK with spending 8 hours for encoding, I'd suggest you pick preset "slower" or "veryslow". If you are not happy with the speed, choose a different preset.
2. Pick a tuning: for the usual live action movies you pick "film", for cartoon-like movies "animation" and for very grainy movies "grain".
3. Pick a CRF value: Your choice "18" is ok and considered transparent by most users.
4. You might want to set "level 4.1" and vbv-values depending on your playback device.
5. Many people downsize to 720p as most Blu-Rays don't really offer enough details to justify 1080p anyways and as a speed/compression compromise.

Here is a manual on how to translate the presets to HandBrake:
https://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19426

[jamesj84]

Now that makes sence.
I think all 4 of the programs i have tried all use a different version of X264.
Can i download a latest version of X264 so they are all using the same version.

I really like the use and ease of ConvertToX andto be honest I think that this is going to be my choice to convert my movies. I just want the correct settings.
My Device i play back on is my samsung bluray player which plays back all of my tested files via usb.

[hello_hello]

There's got to be more to it than different versions of x264 if the file sizes have ranged from 4.6GB to 17GB. In fact I actually refuse to believe one program can produce a 17GB encode while another 4.6GB simply because the version of x264 used may be slightly different.

Did each program only run a single pass encode? Even the encoding time ranging from 3 hours to 9 hours makes no sense. Did they all keep the same audio tracks or convert the audio etc? Was each program using x254's default settings, or at least were they all using the same settings?

Personally, I think there's things you've missed which we can't see.

While you're testing, and while I'll admit I quite like HDConvertToX (is that the program you were referring to?) it'd be remiss not to add MeGUI to the list of program's you're testing.

[jamesj84]

Hello_Hello

I completely agree with you, and that is why I am posting as I am confused myself.

I have got media info so i can post that up from the tests i have done.

I know its a user fault and not a program fault. I know they all work extremely well.
Its my user input error which I am trying to source. When i have 3 equal files i can then make judgement.

As for MeGui I have this also but rather then try this one, i want to iron out the Handbrake & Ripbot issues (user Issues) lol. first.

Right, All 4 programs, I used single pass and a CRF Value of 18. My audio also was all set to AC3 448.

I can post the mediainfo on all 4 files so you can work out my settings i have or have not applied.
With the settings i applied i was expecting around 15gb which BDRB & HDonverttoX both were there abouts. I really like HDC. Its a really nice program


Mediainfo

Convert to X

General
Unique ID : 335267732454858799996282573318690032512 (0xFC3A376EA6DAB2F7C97DBA16CBF5CB80)
Complete name : C:\Users\James\Desktop\hdconverttox kL\hdconverttox.MKV
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 1
File size : 18.0 GiB
Duration : 1h 35mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 27.0 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2012-01-10 00:35:34
Writing application : eac3to
Writing library : Haali DirectShow Matroska Muxer 1.11.96.14
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=4, N=24
Muxing mode : Container profile=Unknown@0.0
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 26.4 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 35.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.532
Stream size : 17.6 GiB (98%)
Default : No
Forced : No
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177


BluRay Rebuilder (BDRB)

General
Unique ID : 199172776251123560973255418887353088381 (0x95D7480919FB829C8DBB27E7F9AF397D)
Complete name : C:\Users\James\Desktop\kill_list_HDBDRB.MKV
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 15.8 GiB
Duration : 1h 35mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 23.7 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2012-01-04 03:34:36
Writing application : mkvmerge v2.9.7 ('Tenderness') built on Jul 1 2009 18:43:35
Writing library : libebml v0.7.7 + libmatroska v0.8.1
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 23.0 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 30.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.463
Stream size : 15.4 GiB (97%)
Writing library : x264 core 120 r2120 0c7dab9
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x3 / me=dia / subme=1 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=6 / sliced_threads=0 / slices=4 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=1 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=24 / keyint_min=1 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=0 / rc=crf / mbtree=0 / crf=18.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=30000 / vbv_bufsize=30000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=vbr / ip_ratio=1.10 / pb_ratio=1.10 / aq=1:1.00
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Audio
ID : 2
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 131 MiB (1%)
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Menu
00:00:00.000 : en:00:00:00.000
00:11:23.516 : en:00:11:23.516
00:21:34.668 : en:00:21:34.668
00:27:06.291 : en:00:27:06.291
00:35:52.692 : en:00:35:52.692
00:41:52.801 : en:00:41:52.801
00:51:23.455 : en:00:51:23.455
00:57:38.621 : en:00:57:38.621
01:05:41.020 : en:01:05:41.020
01:11:09.056 : en:01:11:09.056
01:18:14.773 : en:01:18:14.773
01:26:36.608 : en:01:26:36.608


Handbrake

General
Unique ID : 166490214213670572573933192844665521091 (0x7D40D9518544D1ACD623E41BAB8D83C3)
Complete name : C:\Users\James\Desktop\handbreakkl\handreak Killist00000-1.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 4.87 GiB
Duration : 1h 35mn
Overall bit rate : 7 294 Kbps
Writing application : HandBrake 0.9.5
Writing library : libmkv 0.6.4.1
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1h 35mn
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 816 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Writing library : x264 core 112
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=18.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=3 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177
Audio #1
ID : 2
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 306 MiB (6%)
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Audio #2
ID : 3
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : A_AAC
Duration : 1h 35mn
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Default : No
Forced : No


Ripbot

General
Unique ID : 199512195115955990307243947182233381298 (0x9618A6AD7807A703BE7BD202B3A669B2)
Complete name : C:\Users\James\Desktop\ripbot kill list\kill list ripbot.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 5.64 GiB
Duration : 1h 35mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 8 448 Kbps
Movie name : kill list ripbot
Encoded date : UTC 2012-01-11 01:13:21
Writing application : mkvmerge v5.2.0 ('I can't explain') built on Dec 29 2011 19:29:57
Writing library : libebml v1.2.3 + libmatroska v1.3.0
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 7 832 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 62.5 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.158
Stream size : 5.22 GiB (93%)
Writing library : x264 core 120 r2120 0c7dab9
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=18.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=62500 / vbv_bufsize=62500 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=vbr / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Audio
ID : 2
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 1h 35mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 306 MiB (5%)
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Menu
00:00:00.000 : en:00:00:00.000
00:11:23.516 : en:00:11:23.516
00:21:34.668 : en:00:21:34.668
00:27:06.291 : en:00:27:06.291
00:35:52.692 : en:00:35:52.692
00:41:52.802 : en:00:41:52.802
00:51:23.455 : en:00:51:23.455
00:57:38.622 : en:00:57:38.622
01:05:41.020 : en:01:05:41.020
01:11:09.056 : en:01:11:09.056
01:18:14.773 : en:01:18:14.773
01:26:36.608 : en:01:26:36.608

[sneaker_ger]

Subme and hex have huge influences on speed/quality. BDRB's "me=dia / subme=1" is horrible and equates to preset superfast.
You cannot simply exchange the x264 executable for HandBrake, but probably can for RipBot and BDRB. Don't know about Convert to X, which apparently doesn't even write the settings.

But really, no need to try to understand all these settings. Just pick a preset and use it. They are well balanced.

[QBhd]

ConvertToX looks like it just remuxed the video and did not compress it...

QB

[hello_hello]

I'd possibly take a small section of video (for the purpose of testing so you're not spending hours each time) and re-encode it again using each program. If at all possible do so each time using x264's default settings, or the same x264 preset etc. If you still get huge file size variations it might be of more benefit to post the log file from each program here. As sneaker_ger said if you're using the same x264 settings with each program then you should get pretty much the same result. Unless of course you're applying different resizing or filtering etc.

Unfortunately of the programs you're testing I've only used HDConvertToX enough to be vaguely familiar with it but even then it's been too long to help with settings unless I installed it again.

[hello_hello]

ConvertToX looks like it just remuxed the video and did not compress it...

QB

There's a thought. Which might explain why BDRB only managed to shrink it by 2GB if it used some ridiculously fast preset, while RipBot and Handbrake took much longer to re-encoded it to a more "normal" size.