My movie is being pirated and I don't know how to feel about it!

[um3k]

Hey Doom9ers, I've got a conundrum and was hoping you could help me find some perspective. First, some background:

In 2010, some friends and I made a feature feature film, The Long, Slow Death of a Twenty-Something, with very little money and some long-distance guidance from Mark Ordesky, executive producer of The Lord of the Rings trilogy. Long story short, it got picked up for distribution last year, and was released on DVD October 4th.

Now, here's the slightly concerning bit. A month or so after release, it started popping up on torrent sites. And streaming sites. And presumably P2P networks, though I haven't checked. Every week or so I google for new reviews, but usually only see new downloads.

Now, admittedly, part of me is thrilled that people seem to like it enough to make it spread like wildfire. Indeed, there are even subtitles available in numerous languages, something we couldn't afford to produce for the DVD.

However, I'm also a bit concerned. We're not a big studio with hundreds of millions of dollars, we're three guys in Akron, Ohio who are struggling financially. Admittedly, a commitment to filmmaking is partly to blame, but then again our names are on store shelves (every Blockbuster Video location) across the US, so I guess we must be doing something right.

My concern is that illegal downloads will kill sales, and we won't make any money at all from this film. On the other hand, it could provide tons of exposure, which will certainly help make our future projects a success, and may indeed bolster sales on this one.

I guess I just don't really know where I stand on this, and was hoping someone here could offer some affirmation. Or perhaps I'm just rambling. I'm sorry if I broke any forum rules, I looked them over and don't think I am crossing any.

[poisondeathray]

Congrats on completing your feature, and getting a distribution deal

There are cases where webtraffic and hits increase dramatically with viral buzz. I can't recall the exact details, but there was an Indie filmmaker case a few years back where something like 1000x increase in hits, a surge in sales, and imdb ranking popularity went up from something like 20,000 to top 10 in a couple weeks. They attributed it largely to piracy and wrote about it, I'll see if I can find the link to the news story... But I would imagine those are the exceptions, and rare. I'm sure good story & content helped

Eitherway, there's not much you can do to prevent or discourage the pirating. So maybe you can actively promote the release, ride the wave of free advertising , at least take advantage of it as best you can. For example I cannot access your youtube link from Canada: "This video contains content from maverickent, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. " , that doesn't help with promotion or generating buzz (And Canada is like another state :) )

Anyways good luck

[Dark Shikari]

Your movie is being pirated because people want to watch it. It's popular, so I'm pretty sure you should feel good about that!

If "illegal downloads killed sales", Hollywood wouldn't be making more money these past few years than it ever made before. "Piracy" has never "killed sales": it didn't with cassettes, it didn't with CDs, and it didn't with torrents either. Don't worry about piracy -- it will happen whether you like it or not, at relatively predictable rates. It will not magically eliminate paying customers.

The only way to stop your movie from being pirated is to not release it in the first place, or make it so bad that nobody wants to watch it. Being pirated is a sign of success.

Furthermore, you say that "our names are on store shelves (every Blockbuster Video location) across the US", but what about the other 6.75 billion people in the world? Have you ever thought that perhaps a lot of the pirates are people who can't go down to their Blockbuster to rent your movie? Maybe if you offered it on your website for a $15 download, you might be able to get some of their money too.

There are really only two types of pirates: people who weren't going to pay you in the first place, and people who would pay you if it was convenient enough. The first are a lost cause -- often teenagers on minimal budgets, or people in areas like Indonesia, China, or Eastern Europe where $20 for a DVD is utterly infeasible. The second can be courted -- just make your movie easier to get. Services like Netflix and Steam are great examples of courting the latter by making it so easy to get content that piracy itself is a bother.

[um3k]

@poisondeathray: Thanks. That's a good story to hear. Sorry about the video not being viewable outside the US, that's the distributor's doing, and out of our hands. You should be able watch it on Vimeo, though: http://vimeo.com/14471327 If not there, then one of a million other video sites.

@Dark Shikari: I hear ya. I'm not really upset about it, actually pretty happy. I'd just like to read some reviews for once instead of seeing more torrent links. :P Also, now that we've signed with the distributor, it's up to them where the movie is available. We definitely want it to be available to everyone, and there has been some talk about international distribution, but it remains to be seen where things will go with that. We're going to be finding out the sales figures for the first quarter within the next month, so hopefully we'll have a better idea of where we stand.

Thanks for the confidence boost, guys.

[Ghitulescu]

Sorry about the video not being viewable outside the US, that's the distributor's doing, and out of our hands.

Then it's not your problem, it's the problem of the distributor (actually it depends on how the contract has been drafted ;) - you can even sue the distributor for this financial loss).

[setarip_old]

@um3k

Hi!

1) Your conundrum is described as "mixed emotions" - the best definition of which is "The feeling you get when watching your mother-in-law-drive off a cliff in YOUR brand new Cadillac"

2) If nothing else, the thread you've started here and your LARGE, linked signature, if permitted to remain, can only improve your film's visibility

3) Was there a theatrical release, or did it go direct to DVD?

[JoeH]

Following up on what DS says, anything you can do to encourage the producers and distributors to allow companies like NetFlix to distribute in other countries is the most important step to stopping piracy. Outside the US it is way to difficult to rent a movie and way to expensive to buy one. There are no easy legal options so people turn to illegal ones. Maybe in 5 or 10 years the distributors will figure this out, make a lot more money, and make things easier for everybody....

[Guest]

2) If nothing else, the thread you've started here and your LARGE, linked signature, if permitted to remain, can only improve your film's visibility
Signature removed per rule 5.

[7ekno]

Don't sign it away to a Distributor ...

Do something similar to Radio Head where anybody can download it and make a donation on what they think it's worth ... Radio Head made more personally off that release than they ever did from "distributor released" content ...

Your market is much larger!! If 1% of the worlds internet population donates, thats far more than the 1% of north american population that might hire the film ...

You will find the "pirated" stuff is made available in countries your "Distributor" has failed to even consider (so the "pirates" would not have access to your film at any price anyway) ...

7ek

[dukey]

Sometimes people pirate simply because it's the easiest way. If there is a legitimate way to download, and it's cheap, DRM free, I think you'll find people will do that.

[2Bdecided]

There are really only two types of pirates: people who weren't going to pay you in the first place, and people who would pay you if it was convenient enough.I think a third type is most prevalent: they'll pay for it if they have to, but will get it for free if they're able to. Many people shift between all three types, depending on how much they want/value a specific piece of content, and/or how much spare cash they have at the time.

People who will take it if they can, but pay if they must, are under represented on boards like these. They're almost absent from the peer groups of some people. But they exist, and I think it's naive to argue otherwise.

It's also quite naive to argue that every pirated piece of content represents a lost sale, but that's rarely stopped the movie industry.

Cheers,
David.

[MovieFan81]

@um3k


My movie is being pirated and I don't know how to feel about it!
Hey Doom9ers, I've got a conundrum and was hoping you could help me find some perspective. First, some background:


http://a.abcnews.com/images/Technology/gty_computer_censorship_thg_111116_wg.jpg

In this complex material world piracy is double-edged sword depends upon how you deal with it. As a small and growing film producer you are looking at piracy as if it hurts your revenue, which is true. While on other side big studio uses piracy as a medium for advertisement to gain world-wide popularity.

Here is few examples, Avatar (2009 film) was on Internet for free downloads on very few hours (not even days) after it's release in movie theaters. But still I watched Avatar twice in theater with different friends. And in-spite of piracy, By the end of its first theatrical release Avatar had grossed worldwide total of $2,740,405,721. Including the revenue from a re-release of Avatar featuring extended footage, Avatar grossed $760,507,625 in the U.S. and Canada, and $2,021,767,547 in other territories for a worldwide total of $2,782,275,172.

If Microsoft start conducting survey and banning pirated use on Windows OS, Microsoft Windows must not be enjoying domination approx. 80% share, unbeaten monopoly and major lead among all other OS. SONY is following same foot-steps with Microsoft for SONY Vegas, they do not care much as long as their software running on every-single machine.

In above reply. there lies the biggest secret of marketing and advertisement through internet medium World-Wide round the clock 365-24/7 for absolutely free!

When anybody ask me, which video editor I use?, frankly, I say AVIDemux, But, whenever I ask same to any newbie, their reply is SONY Vegas Pro 11.


Now, here's the slightly concerning bit. A month or so after release, it started popping up on torrent sites. And streaming sites. And presumably P2P networks, though I haven't checked. Every week or so I google for new reviews, but usually only see new downloads.
Now, admittedly, part of me is thrilled that people seem to like it enough to make it spread like wildfire. Indeed, there are even subtitles available in numerous languages, something we couldn't afford to produce for the DVD.

However, I'm also a bit concerned. We're not a big studio with hundreds of millions of dollars, we're three guys in Akron, Ohio who are struggling financially. Admittedly, a commitment to filmmaking is partly to blame, but then again our names are on store shelves (every Blockbuster Video location) across the US, so I guess we must be doing something right.

You must adopt a vision of big studios as stated above and feel happy as long as your film gained world-wide popularity without spending very high bucks towards international marketing and advertisement. At-least three guys in Akron, Ohio - A small filmmaking studio got known world-wide.

North America itself a very hugh market for a small industry like yours as long as your title in major store shelves and Blockbuster.
I guess you guys are on right track.


My concern is that illegal downloads will kill sales, and we won't make any money at all from this film. On the other hand, it could provide tons of exposure, which will certainly help make our future projects a success, and may indeed bolster sales on this one.

Ofcourse, illegal downloads will kill sales.

But how about thinking in real-world scenario where U.S Multinational Companies killed domestic small businesses to death and burried deep-down beyond resurrection, plus very high conversion rate makes it completely un-affordable for poor-people, where poor-people are struggling hard for their daily bread-n-butter and splendid do not have any spending capacity after a day is over. But, they have a equal rights of living and enjoyment as compared to material world. God Bless sanity to material world, and enough to poors!

Further more Hollywood releases more than 500 films in a year, more than a film everyday, all are not worth spending and watching in a movie theater or even think to buy a DVD or BD, so only medium left to watch these films is over internet, and sometimes it waste-of-time to download even some films.
In many countries it is legal to download any copyrighted file as long as it is for noncommercial use.


I guess I just don't really know where I stand on this, and was hoping someone here could offer some affirmation. Or perhaps I'm just rambling. I'm sorry if I broke any forum rules, I looked them over and don't think I am crossing any.

If you are really much concerned about piracy, MPAA and Executive Office for Intellectual Property and Rights Protection might be your best buddies. They can lead to the right direction of preventing piracy.

-MovieFan81

[smok3]

ok, so let me download this to see if it is worth the DVD, just kidding ;)

[MovieFan81]

Just out-of-curiosity I was searching on internet about The Long, Slow Death of a Twenty-Something (2011) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1721691/), and found the details on imdb.

imdb rating is Ratings: 3.5/10 which I do not trust at all coz I personally found some low imdb rated movies more entertaining than the movies with higher rating. Further more, the details on imdb lacks plot summary and synopsis, however genre is comedy. Box Office section on imdb also lacks information just mentioned about budget $5000 (low budget) which i also don't care if story-line goes good to get the viewers grip. Try to provide more information like plot-summary or synopsis on imdb or consider generating informative page on WiKi.

Hope, you must have considered posting 10-to-15 minutes very well directed promotional video-clips on free available resources for public views-n-reviews like youtube, vimeo, face-book, twitter, my-face, rotten-tomatoes or whatever is free! Viewers feed-back is important mile-stones and signs to notice.

I live in a country where downloading copy-righted contents for personal viewing (non-commercial) is legal, so i will try to download it and watch it before i decide to buy DVD coz i do not have bucks to throw into the trash, but i do spend on good movies, plus, it seems like it was not released in theater.

If, it was your very first (group-of-three) attempt of directing a movie and all cast were pretty new faces on the blocks, you should think of floating couples of DVD copies into closely-nested-circle for reviewing, may be their feed-back may help you for future production.

Wishing you a good luck for future production with bigger success!

- MovieFan81

[MovieFan81]

It was not too bad, time-pass for 01:13:06hrs!
What is MPAA ratings? Exaggerated use of F** words made me feel all male characters like Donnie Brasco's Al Pacino!
Some part of movie is too dark. Duplicacy of Hulk Hogan and Superman (must not be driving a car back-home!) were not bad, but, it should be something better! Needs more better video-editing!

[IceFiend]

Well, a known technique to irritate pirates is to upload a file that contains around 1/2 to 2/3 of the movie and the last part is "damaged" and unplayable :)

I know a guy on another forum who released a movie to torrent sites himself and it included a piracy disclaimer. It said basically "If you're pirating this, I'm not even asking you to buy it, but pleeease email Netflix and ask them to get this, okay?".
It actually worked :D

[Ghitulescu]

I know a guy on another forum who released a movie to torrent sites himself and it included a piracy disclaimer. It said basically "If you're pirating this, I'm not even asking you to buy it, but pleeease email Netflix and ask them to get this, okay?".
It actually worked :D

Google says it's already available at netflix, cd-universe and other US retailers and VODs.

However, 20$ a DVD is not that appealing to many people. If the studios will drop the price to 1-2-3$ a DVD/BD the only pirating people will be those that are a "lost cause" anyway.

[Guest]

I live in a country where downloading copy-righted contents for personal viewing (non-commercial) is legal, so i will try to download it You have to follow our rules here. Do not ever post anything like that here again, or you will get rule 6 strikes. Thank you.

[IceFiend]

Yeah. I'd agree to some extent on price. I've always thought $5 for a digital download and maybe like a deluxe version in HD with commentary etc for like $10. One of the reasons a movie is $20 in the stores is because it does cost money to advertise, print, ship and sell at a retail chain. Digital content ought to be quite a bit cheaper.
A lot of pirate sale losses are due to dead weight loss.

But it's not practical to sell physical media(particularly bluray) at under $8 or so.

[Ghitulescu]

I've always thought $5 for a digital download and maybe like a deluxe version in HD with commentary etc for like $10.

But it's not practical to sell physical media(particularly bluray) at under $8 or so.

Well, I've bought several Blu-rays for 5€ each, and I've seen some BDs coming with various magazines, below 8€, so it's possible. In fact the costs for duplicating a BD are way under 1€ per disc, the rest of the money go for licences (the biggest part), authoring and advertising (I assume the costs for producing have already been covered in the first day/week of screening in theaters).

5$/€ for downloading will add (in Europe) the cost for electricity and internet (50 GB will take a while) plus the cost for the storage medium, so no thank you, "BD-live" is not an option.

[Guest]

Thread is now way OT, so closing.