Should I support TMPGenc

[dvd2svcd]

I just tried the latest TMPGEnc using 2pass VBR and it looks nice. and I was wondering if I perhaps should start supporting it. I have looked a bit into it and I think I can fairly easy incorporate support for it. But in the first round I will only be able to support CBR and 2Pass VBR.

What do you guys think. Please vote.

[Mozart]

if this means that we will have CCE and Tmpeg, and will be just a question of taste what encoder to use...

my vote is yes, why not?

btw: I made a test few days ago, and tmpeg 2passVBR took almost 2x the time of CCE 3passVBR encoding.

[DDogg]

Oh, by all means if it is not going to cause a major rewrite with the associated bug hunt. This would give people an option.

I agree, the newest versions of tmpg are definately getting there, especially with 2pass.

I do not look forward to a bunch of questions caused by the try me placard or the expiration of the demo. I wonder if it might be possible to check the registry and inform them that they have expired and are SOL before beginning the encode.

[dvd2svcd]

@Mozart:

Yup, TMPGEnc is when using the best Motion Search Precision, extremely slow. But, I think that on a 2cpu system TMPGEnc could be quite faster because it supports Multiple CPUs.

btw, if I am to support TMPGEnc, I will use it as I use CCE today. That is the input will be from avs and not d2v.

[da franksta]

If this can be done without endangering stability using CCE, I'd say YES please. It's always better to be able to choose.

BTW
before i discovered d2s i used flaskmpeg-avisynth-tmpgenc on a dual A1700+ system: i got approximately .7 RT

[Zoltan]

Yes, I would definitely use it if it was supported. Spent too much time on learning tmpgenc template tuning and I still use it for a 26 part tv_capture->vcd project with moving menus (tscv). Slowness is not an issue for me because I regularly start coding at 10pm and can check it out next evening ;-(

P.S.: due to a forum errmsg I could not vote so pls yes++;

Thanks
Z

[IvanOlsen]

Yes please!!

During the last week I encountered nothing but problems with CCE (even tried the failsafe way with 2.50,2.62 and 2.64). If the quality is something like the CCE 3-pass VBR then yeah!! Your work is great DVD2SVCD, thanks a million!!

/Ivan

[TheeeGod 3]

"If it aint broke, dont fix it"

[gldblade]

But for some people, it is broken. CCE refuses to run on my computer at all when doing multipass, even outside of DVD2SVCD.

Plus it's not free and mentioning the "other way" would break the forum rules.

The problem with TMPGEnc is the 30 days limit. Maybe you could support a (very) old version.

[Vespers]

Still a bit of a newbie at this, but I have successfully created over 30 DVD to SVCD movies so maybe I am not that new anymore....
If it won't endager the stability of the current program and cause you major headaches to do, why not? If I understand all this correctly
we could use this instead of CCE to do some conversions on older systems not running an Athlon or PIII. I know I have an older system sitting around that is mostly just used for email(wife), it could be very cheaply converted to use the program and save some wear and tear(and Time) on my system.....Great idea if it will work......

[24hourloop]

I would think you would have a fair amount of trouble predicting the actual filesize, wouldn't you? I never had much luck getting TMPEnc getting to meet the correct bitrate...

[DDogg]

I would conjecture that only a cbr mode or two pass vbr could be used and have accurate file size. D2S may have told me that ... it is in my head from somewhere.

[SiliconSoul]

yeah sure add it

[saber]

Although I don't like the ploicy they enforce... It´ll surely be a relieve for those who can´t get CCE to work (not my case...)

[markrb]

I am torn. On the one hand it would be a great thing for the people that have problems with CCE.
On the other hand it will be more work for you, potentially add problems and increase the scope of the forum.
We really don't gain much on the CCE logo/TMPG time out issue. Were we get many "how do I get rid of the logo in CCE?" questions now with TMPG we will get "how do I get rid of the 30 day limit for Mpeg-2?" questions.
If you could somehow sneek a registry cleaner into DVD2SVCD we would be set, but somehow I think this will irk the TMPG people.

I guess in the end if it's not to much work the ability for the people that have problems with CCE to use DVD2SVCD probably wins with me, but only if it doesn't take too much of your time and introduce many new problems.

Mark

[mkanar]

My gosh, is it true?

An old quote from DVD2SVCD:

"3. And all the damn mails demanding new stuff. Why is it people think they can demand changes in dvd2svcd? What happend to a nice suggestions and a good reason to why exactly that new option would be good in dvd2svcd. For instance I have been getting mails demanding that I support TMPGEnc as an encoder. THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Nor any other encoder will be supported. Well, not before I find an encoder which I think is better."

Well, I shouldn't poke fun of the situation as adding TMPGEnc support would be really great. I for one can confirm that TMPGEnc does a very good job at scaling over multiple processors having spent far to many hours with TMPGEnc and my dual processor P3 systems. TMPGEnc scales well not only because of the encoding pipeline that can scale over multiple processors, but even moreso because it supports a seperate thread for video prefetch. I just noticed that the new version even supports pipeline for motion search.

In my experience, TMPGenc sticks to the restricted bitrates. I have heard in this forum that CCE does not. In my experience, CCE actually does better at the lower bitrates, but this contradicts the opinion of others; perhaps DVD2SVCD will demonstrate with encoder is actually superior. I have read the CCE tends to encode video that is slightly softer than TMPGenc, and maybe this gives CCE an unfair advantage.

I always click the 'Soften block noise' option to 'true' in TMPGenc and set the Intra- and Non-Intra- block values to 99 and 99. I believe that people are parinoid that this will soften the video and thus lessen the video quality, but you see, TMPGenc only softens the video if a "bitrate shortage occurs", thus "ugly block noise will hardly appear." Maybe I should mention this over in the TMPGenc forum, but hey, since I started using DVD2SVCD, I have left TMPGEnc behind me.

blah blah.

Thanks again DVD2SVCD!

[waldok]

On one side, one has to admit that CCE does not really fit with all the other pieces of software included into DVD2SVCD. It is quite strange to bring such a powerful free tool as DVD2SVCD and to force people to "buy" a very expensive product like CCE.
On the other side, CCE performs extremely well and for people who don't want to spend days for encoding, TmpgEnc is not a good choice.

Still,I understand that for people who have crashes with CCE, the TMpgEnc option would be nice.

On my personal point of view, if I may, I'd rather see the AVI2SVCD functions operational and bug-free before including TmpgEnc support (but it's just my personal need here).

There is also a risk when one keeps adding functions to a good piece of software, since it increases bugs probability, due to multiple possible combinations of parameters and so on. This might quickly become a real pain in the @55 for you to work on ! (like CCE crahs problems).(and maybe the AVI stuff will also be).


So I don't want to look like I'm selfish or anything, nither do I want to offend people who have serious problems with CCE, but I'd rather say no to this TmpgEnc proposal. I think it is far too complicated for the real benefits it will bring (unless more than 50% people have crashes with CCE).

Waldok
:cool:

[EMonty]

Sure, but keep the CCE option because that one is the fastest and with the best results so far (at least for me)

[Clixo]

i voted for the support of tmpgenc, but i still think that cce is the BEST encoder available, but with the support of tmpeg dvd2svcd will work for more ppl than now , but my quetion is the folowing ( please dont flame me ) will it also be possible to make vcd or xvcd ? . because if it will there will be a lot more of users that will be able to use this MASTER PIECE OF SOFTWARE, cause a lot of my freins gett a little disapointed when they find out that their dvd only reads vcd or xvcd. if it will not its ok for me but if it will,dvd2svcd will became a lot more popular !

[SatStorm]

TMPGenc is very promising. So, I vote to include it to DVD2SVCD.

[fiorettoe]

I'm favourable for Tmpgenc with 2 pass vbr.

When will be a this new release of DVD2SVCD?

[dvd2svcd]

I think the next release will be within the next decade or so.

[xrv1138]

haha :D

[fiorettoe]

decade = 10 days?

Ok I wait 10 days for this new DVD2AVI

:D:D:D

[dvd2svcd]

dvd2avi?!?

[dvd2svcd]

Here's an alpha version.

More options should be added to the TMPGEnc tab, and there are probably bugs to be solved too.

http://212.88.77.140/DVD2SVCD107ALPHATMPGEnc.zip

[fiorettoe]

no no no...sorry

I'M WAITING FOR DVD2SVCD

ok, now it's ok.

Thank you very much for this alpha version :cool:

[spudboy]

Yes, I think it would be great if you supported TMPGEnc.

[DDogg]

Use CR to restart video. Asks if you would like to reuse VAF. Before you select yes/no CCE starts. Old VAF is overwritten.

I am getting a lot of 103's if I try to rerip without killing the program (Like when trying a lot of diffenrent settings on a chapter and letting it re-rip each time).

[chainsaw135]

I vote yes 2 include TMPGenc. My reasons are it gives everyone options, and helps people that have problems with cce the access to use dvd2svcd. Tho i've been able 2 fix my problems with cce, it's not fair that i'm able 2 use this fine program "DVD2SVCD" and other users cant. So if you put yourself in the shoes of the people that cant get cce 2 work, you can see why I vote yes.

[beergod]

TMPG ? Definately ... its free (for 30 days) at least ...
The quality is very good indeed.

[Acid Flame]

Please do incorporate it into the program

[mava70]

The early version were so slow that it was barely unusable, if
newer one has speed comparable to CCE it would be interesting to add
support otherwise forget it

M

[videoman]

I vote 100% for TMPGenc.

[allx]

Originally posted by mava70
The early version were so slow that it was barely unusable, if
newer one has speed comparable to CCE it would be interesting to add
support otherwise forget it

M

Tmpeg encoder is very slow... and DVD2SVCD can do nothing about this :-)

bye
Allx

[EMonty]

Tried the Alpha version on a short clip , the quality is good but TMpeg is very slow.(it took 3o minutes for a clip of 2 minutes)even on a PIV 800 mhz. and with CCE it took 8 minutes with he same setings.
This evening i will try a whole movie with subtitles etc and report back in four days or so (depends how long it will take on my PIII 500 with 768 mb)

thanxs

[dvd2svcd]

I am in the process of adding support for TMPGEncs CQ method, and I am currently running some tests to see how precise I can calculate the Quality Value. The CQ (constant quality) is faster than the VBR method and yields good results.

[EMonty]

does anyone know what bitrates we should use with the various matrices in combination with TMpeg 2.51:confused:

[DDogg]

"I am in the process of adding support for TMPGEncs CQ method..."

Yipee! How the hell you are going to figure out how to project the size properly is beyond me. I bow to the master.

[dvd2svcd]

Well, calculating the CQ value isn't exactly a precise science (by far). However, my idea is quite simple. I make an interleaved AVS file with 40 entries, like this:

Video=AVISource("C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file.avs")
v1=Video.Trim(2880,2979)
v2=Video.Trim(5760,5859)
v3=Video.Trim(8640,8739)
v4=Video.Trim(11520,11619)
v5=Video.Trim(14400,14499)
v6=Video.Trim(17280,17379)
v7=Video.Trim(20160,20259)
.
.
.
.
UnalignedSplice(v1,v2,v3,v4,v5......


Which all in all equals 4000 frames (100 frames from 40 different places in the movie). I then run tmpgenc with an approx. CQ value, do some divisions and multiplications and ending up with a closer CQ value which I then use to encode the entire movie. The test process takes approximately 15 minutes on a PIII 700 MHz, so I figure that that is ok with you guys.

[DDogg]

Absolutely OK. Man! I hope it works.

[warthawg]

Originally posted by 24hourloop
I would think you would have a fair amount of trouble predicting the actual filesize, wouldn't you? I never had much luck getting TMPEnc getting to meet the correct bitrate...

I (in the past, before i switched to the ALL POWERFUL DVD2SVCD) use to use TMPGEnc for all my encodings. Using the FitCD bitrate calculator, I was always able to get very accurate results using CBR and 2-Pass VBR. However, I've still never been able to accurately predict file size using CQ settings :\ While I personally will continue using CCE, I think TMPGEnc support is a great idea, as said before, as long as it doesnt prove itself to lending too many bugs to a great program!

Keep up the great work dvd2svcd! :)

[mkanar]

Originally posted by dvd2svcd

Which all in all equals 4000 frames (100 frames from 40 different places in the movie). I then run tmpgenc with an approx. CQ value, do some divisions and multiplications and ending up with a closer CQ value which I then use to encode the entire movie. The test process takes approximately 15 minutes on a PIII 700 MHz, so I figure that that is ok with you guys. [/B]

DVD2SVCD you are AWSOME! Month's ago when I was using TMPGenc manually, I considered making a very similar suggestion to the author, but then I figured that it wouldn't do any good, so why bother.

[Harp]

Hi, DVD2SVCD!

I am always surprised how much effort you have already put into this program and even better, how much more you are still willing to put in.

So if you really have the time, no one will really dislike having Tmpeg as an additional option. Please, please, never stop supporting CCE in DVD2SVCD (as long as there is no other encoder that is at least as good and fast...).

Cheers,
Harp

[beber75]

Yes please include it.

Just a little tip:

When I convert an avi to MPG2 (for SVCD) I think resizing is much easyear with Tmpeg.

I've tryed DVD2SVCD and Tmpeg for avi convertion and with DVD2SVCD my picture is croped when it's not with tmpeg. Tmpeg auto add black borders to the video :)

Before you start to convert an avi file, use virtualdub to change your avi file (mpg4/mp3) to avi file (mpg4/wav). You will double the size of your video, but you'll reduce by twice the encoding time with tmpeg. :)
For my exeprience, for the same movie: without virtualdub convertion it takes aprox 16h00 on a athlon 1400 + 256 Mo ram and with convertion it tooks 5h30 to 6h00

Hoping it'll help you

ps: sorry for my approximate english)

[beber75]

Originally posted by 24hourloop
I would think you would have a fair amount of trouble predicting the actual filesize, wouldn't you? I never had much luck getting TMPEnc getting to meet the correct bitrate...

I use the bitrate calculator from www.vcdhelp.com (the html version)
If you use the resulting bitrate (without modifying the max bitrate) the resulting file is always perfect.

[dvd2svcd]

I don't think you understand the CQ term in TMPGEnc. It has no Avg. Bitrate when using CQ.

[badbert]

I have had some averagely successful Divx to SVCD encodes by using simple division when using CQ. I use the wizard and find out what it says for bitrate, example: 1260 . Then if I set my max bitrate to 2520 (I sometimes use 2000 if the average falls below 1020), I divide the wizards bitrate by max bitrate. 1260/2520=50% Quality setting.

Oh and by the way I tried the TMPGenc beta... At first it crashed with a need to close error...after trying a different AVI it almost works...The ".avs" file plays fine in Media Player, But tmpgenc sticks on the first frame. Producing a black screen video with audio...I have played with various VFAPI priority settings, but with no avail. I will try yet another AVI tomorrow and report back.

And once again, thank you for incorporating TMPGenc. I have set this forum as my homepage, and will assist any way possible. I know you (we) can get it to work.

[EMonty]

DVD2SVCD:
Tried the D2S Alpha with TMPEGEnc 2.51 plus with CBR and the Angel matrice
and it looks GREAT!!!!!:D

[cadbury]

Supporting Tmpgenc is a good idea.
I'd like to use AVI2SVCD to convert DV video to SVCD. My experience in this field tell me that tmpgenc do a better job than CCE and I think many other people in Doom9 forums will agree.

[Manno6291]

I have voted on YES.
First of : It would be free for at least 30 days !
Second of: Get rid of all CCE Crashes (mine only did work with cbr and then mostly only every other start).
Just as many here say, let us take the choice ! Make it an option, which encoder to use, thats probably the easiest way !
About the calculation of filelength :
There is a wonderful Tool on the net called DVTool, it cuts mgp Files
exact there where you want to bytewise (no preview :(( but overlapping ) (I realize you can only use it when you don't make chapters e.g)you find it for free on :
http://www.musclesoft.de/combatman/
Greetings and keep your very good work going

[fiorettoe]

Thank You!!!

What's new in this version?

[DDogg]

http://dvd2svcd.doom9.net/

from the D2S homepage:

XX feb. 2002 version 1.0.7 build 1 (not released yet)
- Enhancement: DVD2SVCD should now be able to execute CCE no matter if it has been translated (e.g. to spanish)
- New feature: Support for TMPGEnc 2.51. I said I wouldn't support it before the quality was up to par with CCE, and IMHO the latest TMPGEnc is getting there. So here it is.
- Enhancement: Well, as any programmer who has had anything to do with AVI knows, Microsofts AVI dlls sucks when the AVI > 2 Gb. [edit ddogg. My bold] So, I wrote an AVI reader which can handle big AVI files. This should hopefully solve the problems people have had with DV Avi files.

I used this on a 13 GIG file and it did the audio just fine :) Since he will not brag on himself, I will. D2S wrote his own custom routines to strip the audio from files larger than > 2 gig. This feature along with the tmpg support makes this excellent for DV.

[badbert]

Constant Quality Rocks!! Thanx!! By the way ...the only way I can read the avs file is if I use fast resize...but it worked it worked it finally worked!!!

[DDogg]

Well badbert let the cat out of the bag :) This version has D2S's first stab at TMPG CQ support. I think he continues to tinker with the size projection and there may be an update soon.

[dvd2svcd]

Yet another beta 3 version:

http://212.88.77.140/DVD2SVCD107BETATMPGEnc3.zip

Changed some settings in TMPGEnc which should make it even better in quality.

------------------

It should support the new tmpgenc 2.52. But two things:

1. If your TMPGEnc copy isn't registered you have to press the "Try it" button manually, sorry so far there isn't anything I can do about that.

2. Be sure that you have installed Build 4 before you use the above version. (If you already are using Build 4 there's no need to install it again, I just want to be sure that you're using all the latest software).

[FrEaK]

i downloaded the tmpgenc beta and tried to encode "get carter" with it. tmpgenc starts without problem, the video source is the avisynth file, and the dvd2svcd settings are used.
BUT when tmpgenc starts to encode, the frame counter stays zero, and the preview window shows nothing but black!
first i thought that there is something wrong with the environmental settings, so i played around with the options a little bit, but that didn't work.
then i loaded the default SVCD.mcf's (i tried all of them), that come with tmpgenc, and suddenly it worked!

i will compare the settings now to see what the problem might be. this is really confusing.

BTW im using tmpgenc plus 2.52

help is appreciated

ok, the stream type seems to have nothing to do with it. none of them works..... | its the 2-pass VBR. after turning 2 pass on the framecounter stayed @ 0 again. and after switching to CBR or CQ_VBR it worked... that brings another question to my mind: is it supposed to be like that when using 2-pass ?!?!.... well i wont take the risk, i will use CQ for now, and hope that the quality will be acceptable

[DDogg]

Keep reporting any problems. The support for TMPG is in its infancy.

Always double check and see if the AVS will play in mplayer.

Load avs into tmpg and attempt to preview.

The file size projection isn't working too well for me yet. If you do a CQ encode please report back the size of the final mpv stream, mp2, and mpgs. Make sure and report the CQ setting D2S used as well as the bitrate settings. I think this would help D2S.

When doing a CQ encode, I suggest setting MIN to 755 due to some things I read on usenet.

[FrEaK]

i forgot to mention it but i did that too. the avs played in mplayer and tmpgenc's preview also worked, this is why this is also confusing.
as for the file size, i will do that.
and setting the min to 755 i did not :D hope the quality wont be impared too much!

im still wondering if the 2-pass is supposed to be like that, because it also did the same when i used another avi file. tmpgenc Version 2.01 did it also

[dvd2svcd]

FrEaK: It is supposed to be like that when doing 2pass vbr in tmpgenc. Just let it run.

[DDogg]

I don't know if this is just a fluke, but I put the min up to 1100. From the look of my filesize at 25% completion it looks like it will be close to my total filesize goal, where before it was coming up short by about 300 meg. Actually, this was what one person recommended for a cq encode in a thread I read in A.B.VCD. I'll let ya'll know if it works out.

Edit: Nah, try 755 min or normal 300

[FrEaK]

@d2s: what a relief to hear that. anyways, i finished encoding in CQ. and the filesize also seems to be right, its: 1.261.367KB
this were the settings used:

- Encoding C:\Programme\DVD2SVCD\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file.avs
StreamSectors: 1540983976
AudioSectors: 239274392
VideoPAPO: 20164176
ScanOffsetBytes: 221324
SeqAligningBytes: 14066338
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 300.00
PureMPEGStream: 1267257738.50
Seconds: 5901.96
CalcMPEGStream: 1267257738.50
CDSize: 740.00
Cut point 735.00
Low CQ calc. filesize.: 870854412.21
High CQ calc. filesize: 1585757720.40
Low CQ step.: 0.000000080380829
High CQ step: 0.000000059908269
Calculated Quality Value: 83.86
Video Encoding finished.

i think i found a bug tho: during muxing and cutting there are no audio streams specified. an error message appeared and i had to do that manually.

another bug as it seems. d2s doesnt create any images, for me. here is the part of my log file:

--------------------------------------------------------
- 17.02.2002 00:35:11
- Free on drive C: 3646.59 mb
- Crash Recovery
- Restarting from: Finalize
CD-Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 17.02.2002 00:35:12
- Free on drive C: 3646.59 mb
- SVCD Creation finished!
--------------------------------------------------------
BTW, the same happens if i restart from "svcd authoring"

[DDogg]

Well I am running into problems with CQ. Two encodes both have failed in the muxing step. TMPG is making a mpv that is breaking BBMplex.

"COuld not find user data at I-frame XXXX in the file bbmpeg_muxed_file00.mpg"

Drat!

[dvd2svcd]

You haven't seen my last mail. It is because (I hope) that pulldown is being run. Please test the version I mailed you.

[DDogg]

Could be but I tried to hand mux the tmpg created pulldown and it would not either.

Edit: I got your mail now check your mail. Still no joy and I noticed that 3/2 was still on in tmpg. I assume you plan/planned to directly mux the generated MPV without the need of pulldown.exe. I don't know if that is a good idea? Pulldown always works well. Why not set TMPG to do a non-interlaced encode and pull it down as always to keep symetry of process?

Handmuxing of the TMPG.mpv also failed. The great news was the file size looked excellent. Wahoo!

Anyway, I would not think running pulldown on an already pulled mpv would do any harm, would it? I thought all it did was set a flag?

Oh, as I retire I am running tmpg with 3/2 off but padding still on. I'll run pulldown on it in the morning and see if that will mux.

Odd that the mux always seems to fail at the cutpoint. I get a good first file of the set, then the failure as above.

[DDogg]

OK, its morning and that did not work either. Same exact error. Now I will do one without the padding checked and try that. Back at you in 5 hours.

Edit: mux worked fine with padding off

[dvd2svcd]

I assume you plan/planned to directly mux the generated MPV without the need of pulldown.exe. I don't know if that is a good idea? Pulldown always works well. Why not set TMPG to do a non-interlaced encode and pull it down as always to keep symetry of process?


Yes, I do believe it is a good idea. Not only does it save space, it also saves time.

[badbert]

Wow guys!! What can I say....You guys are batting .900!! (9 out of ten files have been perfect). Only one files was 80mb too long...whipped out DVTool truncated the credits and "Crash Recovered" at Authoring. YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!

I do still have to prep(extract wave in VDub, remix with video) VBR MP3 Divx. Not that it bothers me... It is an easy thing to do to gain such quality so easily... And if I could run batch....:D

[mace]

I Have a question I am using the New DVD2SVCD with TMPG. I am a little confused or did soemthing wrong.It seems to be working but the TMPG just started and it says it is going to take 24 hours 30min to encode this 2 hour movie. WOW !! I Know my computer is not the fastest but thats a long time. Any ideals of what I might have done wrong.
Tmpg is plus 2.52
Comp
Amd Athlon 1ghz
Ram 384
OS win Me
DVD2SVCD Log
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/17/2002 9:23:46 AM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.0.7 build 7 Pre 16
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/17/2002 9:23:48 AM
- Free on drive D: 27408.28 mb
- Internal rip
--------------------------------------------------------
Preparing vobfiles to be ripped:
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_1.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_2.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_3.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_4.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_5.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_6.vob
- E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_7.vob

Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_1.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_2.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_3.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_4.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_5.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_6.vob
Ripping: E:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_07_7.vob
Ripping finished. Speed: 9942

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/17/2002 9:35:01 AM
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -IA=1 -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[D:\DVD RIp\Captain Corellis\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[D:\dvd rip\Captain Corellis\VTS_07_1.vob,D:\dvd rip\Captain Corellis\VTS_07_2.vob,D:\dvd rip\Captain Corellis\VTS_07_3.vob,D:\dvd rip\Captain Corellis\VTS_07_4.vob,D:\dvd rip\Captain Corellis\VTS_07_5.vob,D:\dvd rip\Captain Corellis\VTS_07_6.vob,D:\dvd rip\Captain Corellis\VTS_07_7.vob]
Analyzing DVD2AVI Project file
Force Film activated!
Framerate: 23976
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/17/2002 9:41:24 AM
- Free on drive D: 20892.56 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: D:\DVD RIp\Captain Corellis\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: 0 ms
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/17/2002 9:54:30 AM
- Free on drive D: 20479.36 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Converting Audio to MP2. Filename: D:\DVD RIp\Captain Corellis\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "D:\DVD RIp\Captain Corellis\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "D:\DVDRIP~1\CAPTAI~1\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "D:\DVDRIP~1\CAPTAI~1\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -c normal ) -ota( -g max ) -ssrc( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s )
Audio conversion of D:\DVD RIp\Captain Corellis\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/17/2002 10:47:19 AM
- Free on drive D: 20302.26 mb
- Converting Pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
Converting: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DefaultTitlepicture.bmp
Converting: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DefaultChangeCD.bmp
Finished converting pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/17/2002 10:47:26 AM
- Free on drive D: 20301.29 mb
- Video Encoding using TMPGEnc
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding D:\DVD RIp\Captain Corellis\TitlePicture.bmp.avs
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding D:\DVD RIp\Captain Corellis\ChangeCDPicture.bmp.avs
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding D:\DVD RIp\Captain Corellis\AviSynth_Script_file.avs
StreamSectors: 2307292764
AudioSectors: 188246324
VideoPAPO: 32825160
ScanOffsetBytes: 222600
SeqAligningBytes: 14147467
VideoEndHeader: 12
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 900.00
PureMPEGStream: 2071851201.33
Seconds: 7738.90
CalcMPEGStream: 2071851201.33
CDSize: 740.00
Cut point 735.00
Thanks for any help.

[DDogg]

mace, show us your AVS script.
What method of TMPG encoding did you choose? 2pass VBR?
Are you really using 740 CDRs?

[mace]

Hi Ddogg; Ok I know I should be in the real "Newbie" Section but I didn't think anyone would help me there with this.
TMPGE I used 2 pass, Motion set at highest,
no I am not using 740cdr... Ok tell me what dumb mistakes I made!!!! I know I did something wrong.
I hope this is what you wanted.

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\SIMPLE~1\SIMPLE~1.DLL")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2DEC\MPEG2DEC.DLL")
mpeg2source("D:\DVDRIP~1\CAPTAI~1\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
TemporalSmoother(2,1)
SimpleResize(480,360)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)

[DDogg]

Nah, this is fine as it is about the TMPG test version.

Yes, I see what it is. You have TS on. That just cost you 40% and is not needed here. Two pass in TMPG is already slow,slow,slow so this makes it even 40% slower than slow, Turn off TS.

Added to that you say you have motion at highest, ouch! Set to high quality (slow).

Set your disk size in the bitrate tab to 800 assuming that is what you are using.

Tmpg comes into its own using CQ mode which is a one pass. The version you have probably is not going to do a good file size projection so wait a day or so until D2S ups a newer test version then help us test.

In the meantime try the changes above with 2pass vbr or do a cbr. I would think 2pass on your machine ought to complete in under 12 hours.

[mace]

Thank you Ddogg: I now have a much more realistic time. I would love to help test the new version. I will be anxiously awaiting it. Thank you again for your help. It is very much appreciated.

Newbie ( but I love to learn. )
Mace :D

[mace]

My computer worked about 12 hours last night on this movies. TMpg seemed to work fine. It finished early this morning, Then it started going through the pulldown. I recieved an error no audio stream speicfied. Not a problem whent in and specified the audio file. Pulldown went through when it was done I recieved this error.

"Access Violation at address 004911ao in module dvd2svcd.exe.read of address 01e3c000."

I tried the recover mode and now it says this.
Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "D:\DVD RIp\Captain Corellis\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
File not found

I am unable to locate the file it wants.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
:( :(

[DDogg]

A new version, greatly advanced in the TMPG area will be out soon. Wait for that.

[badbert]

pant, pant, pant...LOL (waiting patiently)

What is (are) the advantage(s) of having the audio processed by other programs than TMPGenc? I am having SYNC problems, I have never experienced with TMPGenc before. As I said in my previous post, DVD2SVCD will not convert VBRmp3s. In the past I simply used Vdub, to extract the wav, and fed the audio into TMPGenc. Resulting in a perfectly Synced output file. Since DVD2SVCD does not give the option for a separate audio file, I am forced to re-mux the wav file with the video from whence it came. Afterwards the audio is in sync. After feeding this re-muxed avi into DVD2SVCD, the files produced are out-of-sync. Any Ideas? My suggestion would be to try to feed the extracted wave directly into TMPGenc. Or an option to add separate audio file. I suspect that the sync problem is caused by the re-muxed file created in VDUB.

My file sizes have ranged from 60mb under target, to 80mb over target. Your process for judging quality settings is much more proficient than my simple division.

The only crashes I have had with beta 3, have been caused by bad AVI files. I have done approximatelty twenty conversions. Soon I may even try to rip a DVD with it..LOL

By the way I hate to brag...(NOT!) but my Dual Athlon MP1600s will do a 90 minute movie in about four hours with Temporal Smoothing, and Highest Quality(slowest) turned on.

[dvd2svcd]

Here's another new (and hopefully improved) PreRelease wit TMPGEnc CQ support.

[DDogg]

Suggested settings when using TMPG CQ mode:

Bicubic b 0.0,c 0.50
Max 2496 Min 755
High quality (slow)
No Temporal Smoother

Don't mess with the CQ test values

And just to state the obvious: You must first install the full bundle from the DVD2SVCD homepage and then overwrite that version with this one.

[EMonty]

Originally posted by DDogg
Suggested settings when using TMPG CQ mode:

Bicubic 0,50
Max 2496 Min 755
High quality (slow)
No Temporal Smoother

Don't mess with the CQ test values

Bicubic b or c or b and c:rolleyes:

[FrEaK]

Whats the difference in quality between 2-pass and CQ in tmpg?! which one is better, and is it actually noticealble?

[warthawg]

Hardware Configuration:

Abit KG7-Lite Mainboard
AMD AthlonXP 1500+
512MB Mushkin DDR RAM (1 stick)
Abit Siluro 64MB GeForceII Video
Windows XP Professional with all updates

DVD2SVCD Configuration:

DVD2SVCD 1.0.6b4 + 1.0.7b7pre28
Used SmartRipper to rip VOB files (didnt use internal routines)
DVDRipping Disabled
CVD Subtitles Selected

After confirming the subtitles, i get the following error:

"Access Violation at address 004911A0 in module 'DVD2SVCD.exe'. Read of address 02AF8001".

Here is the log

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/20/2002 10:39:22 AM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.0.7 build 7 Pre 28
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/20/2002 10:39:24 AM
- Analyzing subtitles
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing subtitle selection/verification.
Subtitle selection/verification accepted.
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/20/2002 10:39:30 AM
- Free on drive F: 10296.74 mb
- Extracting the subtitles.
--------------------------------------------------------
Access violation at address 004911A0 in module 'DVD2SVCD.exe'. Read of address 02AF8001


Never had any problems like this before, and just wanted to pass this along to you :) I'm going to try internal ripping and see if that helps any.

As usual, keep up the great work!

[warthawg]

Tried again with internal ripping and all was fine. SmartRipper had the Aspect Ratio wrong also. Should have known to just let d2s handle it!

[DDogg]

Whats the difference in quality between 2-pass and CQ in tmpg?! which one is better, and is it actually noticealble?

Here is the deal. We all know TMPG is much slower than CCE right? TMPG 2pass vbr does a good job but you could go on a vacation while it encodes. Well actually it turns out that TMPG is not as slow as we thought when it comes to CQ mode. CQ mode turns out excellent quality in one pass that many say is equivalent to a CCE 3 or 4 pass. Some say it is better and some say it is not, but I am not sure anybody can tell the difference. That is close enough for me.

Because TMPG is only using one pass it really does not matter that it is slower than CCE. It's one pass is actually faster than cce doing 3 or 4 passes and remember that a cce 4 pass actually takes five passes due to the creation of the VAF file in the first pass. To give you an idea, Tmpg will do the Matrix, which is 2:15, in about 4 or 4.5 hours on my machine. Add the overhead from the size projection routines and we are still under 5 hours.

The problem has been that it was very difficult, and a bit hit and miss, to project the file size for TMPG CQ mode. Our fearless codehead, DVD2SVCD, came up with a method to do 4 short tests passes using a snip of the movie.

The snip is a composite of frames from the entire movie thus providing an averaging of the frames to be encoded. A test run is done using the composite snip and the resulting filesize is compared to a calculated target that mirrors the amount of disks you have instructed DVD2SVCD to use. The value of CQ is tweaked and the next test pass is done. With four test runs (they only take a few minutes each) the CQ value is continually tweaked until the test run encode filesize reaches the target and that value is used on the full encode. [overly simplistic explanation]

It took him a while, but it seems to be working well now. I did a two cd encode of the Matrix (with overlap) and final file size was only off a few megs on the second disk.

Suggested settings when using TMPG CQ mode:

Bicubic b 0.00,c 0.50
(somebody please try BiLinear and Simple and compare all three please. I am burned out testing)
Max 2496 Min 755
High quality (slow)
No Temporal Smoother

Don't mess with the CQ test values

[DDogg]

@EMonty
Bicubic b or c or b and c
b=0.00
c=0.50 [I'll edit this above to make it clear]

@warthawg
Tried again with internal ripping and all was fine. SmartRipper had the Aspect Ratio wrong also. Should have known to just let d2s handle it!

Man, have I been bit by that snake many times! :)

[DDogg]

Btw, in a way, D2S is doing a compression measurement when it is doing the sizing tests. A byproduct of this is somewhat of a "Quality Projection" as you can see the final CQ selected as the full encoding run is began.

You should stop an encode and add a disk if you get under a CQ of 65 or thereabouts. Just use Crash Recovery to continue.

From reading some stuff on UseNet the opinion is never go under 60-65, but I think I will never go under 70-75. The real quality freaks will not want to go under 75-80.

We can figure this out as we go along and make a better recommendation later after more tests.

[SatStorm]

Well, let me state something here:
Using CQ_VBR at highest mode, give less quality as 2 PASS VBR at Time Estimate Search mode, in the SAME ENCODING TIME!
That is only for TMPGenc 2.52 and the new 2 PASS VBR fuction.

CQ_VBR is useless now. Saves no time to encoding...

[dvd2svcd]

That's why I don't support CQ_VBR, I only support CQ

[DDogg]

SatStorm, would you fill us in on this "new" 2 pass vbr and what it does different? I notice the drop down with 2pass (old) and 2Pass. Can you expand on that a little more?

[mace]

I tried out the newest version of DVD2SVCD 1.07pre28. Everything went very smoothly it took around 11-12hours from start to finish. I burnt my CDS this morning and they look excellent. I have never been able to get a SVCD to work this easy and well. So far no errors or any glitches. My hat is off to you DVD2SVCD EXCELLENT JOB!!! This newbie is very thankful. Thank You Thank You. :D :D :D

[DDogg]

Mace, please expand on your post.
What was the total length of the movie you encoded?
What were the final filesizes of the mpg or the bins?
What was the CQ D2S used?
What filter did you use? The settings I suggested?

Please post the log.txt if you still have it.

[mordant]

I'm giving DVD2SVCD with TMPGEng CQ a try right now with a movie I've already done once with CCE.

I noticed the Matrices tab when I choose TMPGEnc and was wondering if someone could give some info about these. I noticed an "angel 1CD" choice...is this for trying to make 1 CD SVCD movies?

Also, once I click "go" on DVD2SVCD do any changes I make after that have an effect on the encoding. eg I noticed that the TMPGEng pointed to was not the latest version I had on my hard drive and so edited it, but will this not come into play until I restart DVD2SVCD?

Thanks for any help... =)

[mace]

Sorry about that.. Gues I was too excited that it worked.

Total Length=129min
File Sizes
b/c 1=806mb 2=805mb 3=709mb
CQ=Constant QT, Frames per spread 50, Offset 80, spread 40,( ihope thats what you wanted.


Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -IA=1 -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[D:\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[D:\DVD2SVCD\VTS_01_1.vob,D:\DVD2SVCD\VTS_01_2.vob,D:\DVD2SVCD\VTS_01_3.vob,D:\DVD2SVCD\VTS_01_4.vob,D:\DVD2SVCD\VTS_01_5.vob,D:\DVD2SVCD\VTS_01_6.vob,D:\DVD2SVCD\VTS_01_7.vob,D:\DVD2SVCD\VTS_01_8.vob]
Analyzing DVD2AVI Project file
Force Film activated!
Framerate: 23976
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/20/2002 2:17:11 PM
- Free on drive D: 17193.44 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: D:\DVD2SVCD\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: 7 ms
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/20/2002 2:39:08 PM
- Free on drive D: 16841.24 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Converting Audio to MP2. Filename: D:\DVD2SVCD\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "D:\DVD2SVCD\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "D:\DVD2SVCD\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "D:\DVD2SVCD\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -c normal ) -ota( -g max -d 7 ) -ssrc( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s )
Audio conversion of D:\DVD2SVCD\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/20/2002 3:28:35 PM
- Free on drive D: 16665.13 mb
- Converting Pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
Converting: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DefaultTitlepicture.bmp
Converting: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DefaultChangeCD.bmp
Finished converting pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/20/2002 3:28:42 PM
- Free on drive D: 16664.16 mb
- Video Encoding using TMPGEnc
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding D:\DVD2SVCD\TitlePicture.bmp.avs
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding D:\DVD2SVCD\ChangeCDPicture.bmp.avs
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip D:\DVD2SVCD\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
StreamSectors: 2495536764
AudioSectors: 187198200
VideoPAPO: 35757396
ScanOffsetBytes: 221362
SeqAligningBytes: 14068759
VideoEndHeader: 12
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 900.00
PureMPEGStream: 2258291034.93
Seconds: 7695.86
CalcMPEGStream: 2258291034.93
Frames: 184468
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Calculated Quality Value: 80.00
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip D:\DVD2SVCD\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
StreamSectors: 2495536764
AudioSectors: 187344612
VideoPAPO: 35755128
ScanOffsetBytes: 221362
SeqAligningBytes: 14068759
VideoEndHeader: 12
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 900.00
PureMPEGStream: 2258146890.93
Seconds: 7701.86
CalcMPEGStream: 2258146890.93
Frames: 184468
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Test Clip: Got MB per Frame: 11295.7205
Test Clip: Want MB per Frame: 12241.4017115886
Test Clip: CQ per Frame: 0.00708232821447733
Test Clip: New CQ value: 86.6976247267353
Test Clip3: Calculated CQ value: 83.3488123633677
Calculated Quality Value: 83.35
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip D:\DVD2SVCD\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
StreamSectors: 2495536764
AudioSectors: 187344612
VideoPAPO: 35755128
ScanOffsetBytes: 221362
SeqAligningBytes: 14068759
VideoEndHeader: 12
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 900.00
PureMPEGStream: 2258146890.93
Seconds: 7701.86
CalcMPEGStream: 2258146890.93
Frames: 184468
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Test Clip: Got MB per Frame: 11606.148
Test Clip: Want MB per Frame: 12241.4017115886
Test Clip: CQ per Frame: 0.00718143628388744
Test Clip: New CQ value: 87.9108464172445
Test Clip2: Calculated CQ value: 85.6298293903061
Calculated Quality Value: 85.63
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip D:\DVD2SVCD\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
StreamSectors: 2495536764
AudioSectors: 187344612
VideoPAPO: 35755128
ScanOffsetBytes: 221362
SeqAligningBytes: 14068759
VideoEndHeader: 12
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 900.00
PureMPEGStream: 2258146890.93
Seconds: 7701.86
CalcMPEGStream: 2258146890.93
Frames: 184468
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Test Clip: Got MB per Frame: 12175.4585
Test Clip: Want MB per Frame: 12241.4017115886
Test Clip: CQ per Frame: 0.00703298601775909
Test Clip: New CQ value: 86.0936070753751
Test Clip1: Calculated CQ value: 85.8617182328406
Calculated Quality Value: 85.86
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding D:\DVD2SVCD\AviSynth_Script_file.avs
StreamSectors: 2495536764
AudioSectors: 187344612
VideoPAPO: 35755128
ScanOffsetBytes: 221362
SeqAligningBytes: 14068759
VideoEndHeader: 12
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 900.00
PureMPEGStream: 2258146890.93
Seconds: 7701.86
CalcMPEGStream: 2258146890.93
Frames: 184468
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Test Clip: Got MB per Frame: 12184.305
Test Clip: Want MB per Frame: 12241.4017115886
Test Clip: CQ per Frame: 0.00704691143506672
Test Clip: New CQ value: 86.2640737026393
Test Clip0: Calculated CQ value: 86.0628959677399
Using Quality Value: 85.85
Video Encoding finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/21/2002 12:22:33 AM
- Free on drive D: 14577.80 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "D:\DVD2SVCD\TitlePicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/21/2002 12:22:41 AM
- Free on drive D: 14577.77 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "D:\DVD2SVCD\ChangeCDPicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/21/2002 12:22:44 AM
- Free on drive D: 14577.74 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 0
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 0 seconds
Cut point: 795 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "D:\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Length of D:\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
2671 Seconds
Offset in Seconds: 2671
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 0 seconds
Cut point: 795 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "D:\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Length of D:\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG_Muxed_File01.mpg
2582 Seconds
Offset in Seconds: 5253
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 0 seconds
Cut point: 795 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "D:\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/21/2002 2:10:01 AM
- Free on drive D: 12288.61 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: D:\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
2673.476 seconds D:\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
Analyzing: D:\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG_Muxed_File01.mpg
2584.555 seconds D:\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG_Muxed_File01.mpg
Analyzing: D:\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG_Muxed_File02.mpg
2440.594 seconds D:\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG_Muxed_File02.mpg
Analyzing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/21/2002 2:27:31 AM
- Free on drive D: 12288.61 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 7

CD image #1: CD_Image_File_CD1.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --cue-file="D:\DVD2SVCD\CD_Image_File_CD1.cue" --bin-file="D:\DVD2SVCD\CD_Image_File_CD1.bin" "D:\DVD2SVCD\VCDXBuild_Script_1.xml"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/21/2002 2:37:16 AM
- Free on drive D: 11482.51 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 7

CD image #2: CD_Image_File_CD2.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --cue-file="D:\DVD2SVCD\CD_Image_File_CD2.cue" --bin-file="D:\DVD2SVCD\CD_Image_File_CD2.bin" "D:\DVD2SVCD\VCDXBuild_Script_2.xml"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 2/21/2002 2:41:30 AM
- Free on drive D: 10676.70 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 8

CD image #3: CD_Image_File_CD3.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --cue-file="D:\DVD2SVCD\CD_Image_File_CD3.cue" --bin-file="D:\DVD2SVCD\CD_Image_File_CD3.bin" "D:\DVD2SVCD\VCDXBuild_Script_3.xml"
SVCD Creation finished!
--------------------------------------------------------

[DDogg]

Mace, thanks for the additional info. If you have time, try it on two disks by changing the correct timeband in the bitrate tab to "2"

[Fastolfe]

Ok, in the spirit of testing TMPGEnc CQ mode with pre28, I had a go with the short movie Legally Blonde around 95 minutes. This movie was still on my HD and was ripped with SR 2.40. Note that I do not have problems with CCE but a faster way to encode is always interesting providing the video quality is maintained.

Although it went superfast (for me anyway) 5 hours for the whole process (machine is MSI 694 Dual PIII 800@868Mhz with 768Mb Ram running W2k -stable-, WinXP is a pain on this MB, had to remove it), I have experience a little problem that never happened before. Everything went fine up to the CD-Images creation. The cue/bin were created fine (I think) but the bin must be corrupted somehow because once mounted with Daemon-Tools, the CD is unreadable. Very strange to me, VCDXBuild never let me down before. I am saying that because the bbMPEG_Muxed_File(s) are OK in PowerDVD.

The video quality looks Ok but before I can make a final judgment I need to compare with my other version done with CCE (same settings) on my TV set.

The resize method is SimpleResize with both encoders.

Any thoughts?

Here is the log:

--------------------------------------------------------
- 20/02/2002 21:52:21
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.0.7 build 7 Pre 28
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 20/02/2002 21:52:25
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 64-bit Floating Point

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -IA=2 -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[H:\SVCD Conversion\Movie\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[E:\Film DVD2\vts_09_1.vob,E:\Film DVD2\vts_09_2.vob,E:\Film DVD2\vts_09_3.vob,E:\Film DVD2\vts_09_4.vob]
Analyzing DVD2AVI Project file
Force Film activated!
Framerate: 23976
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 20/02/2002 21:56:24
- Free on drive D: 12481.75 mb
- Free on drive E: 34342.66 mb
- Free on drive H: 29632.67 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: H:\SVCD Conversion\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: 27 ms
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 20/02/2002 22:02:53
- Free on drive D: 12481.72 mb
- Free on drive E: 34342.66 mb
- Free on drive H: 29325.02 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Converting Audio to MP2. Filename: H:\SVCD Conversion\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "H:\SVCD Conversion\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "H:\SVCDCO~1\Audio\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "H:\SVCDCO~1\Audio\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -c normal ) -ota( -g max -d 27 -r 960 1001 ) -2lame( -e -b 160 -m s )
Audio conversion of H:\SVCD Conversion\Audio\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 20/02/2002 22:48:10
- Free on drive D: 12481.54 mb
- Free on drive E: 34342.66 mb
- Free on drive H: 29219.61 mb
- Converting Pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
Converting: E:\CD-Rom\Covers\done\Legally_Blonde-SVCDfront.jpg
Converting: I:\Images\DefaultChangeCD.bmp
Finished converting pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
- 20/02/2002 22:48:17
- Free on drive D: 12481.54 mb
- Free on drive E: 34342.66 mb
- Free on drive H: 29217.73 mb
- Video Encoding using TMPGEnc
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding H:\SVCD Conversion\Movie\TitlePicture.bmp.avs
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding H:\SVCD Conversion\Movie\ChangeCDPicture.bmp.avs
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip H:\SVCD Conversion\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
StreamSectors: 1665085576
AudioSectors: 111902924
VideoPAPO: 24059628
ScanOffsetBytes: 207165
SeqAligningBytes: 13166487
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 600.00
PureMPEGStream: 1515749364.33
Seconds: 5520.40
CalcMPEGStream: 1515749364.33
Frames: 138110
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Calculated Quality Value: 80.00
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip H:\SVCD Conversion\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
StreamSectors: 1665085576
AudioSectors: 111981940
VideoPAPO: 24058404
ScanOffsetBytes: 207165
SeqAligningBytes: 13166487
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 600.00
PureMPEGStream: 1515671572.33
Seconds: 5524.40
CalcMPEGStream: 1515671572.33
Frames: 138110
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Test Clip: Got MB per Frame: 8401.188
Test Clip: Want MB per Frame: 10974.3796418314
Test Clip: CQ per Frame: 0.0095224627755027
Test Clip: New CQ value: 104.503121623574
Test Clip3: Calculated CQ value: 92.251560811787
Calculated Quality Value: 92.25
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip H:\SVCD Conversion\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
StreamSectors: 1665085576
AudioSectors: 111981940
VideoPAPO: 24058404
ScanOffsetBytes: 207165
SeqAligningBytes: 13166487
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 600.00
PureMPEGStream: 1515671572.33
Seconds: 5524.40
CalcMPEGStream: 1515671572.33
Frames: 138110
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Test Clip: Got MB per Frame: 11032.753
Test Clip: Want MB per Frame: 10974.3796418314
Test Clip: CQ per Frame: 0.00836160845908424
Test Clip: New CQ value: 91.7634656463392
Test Clip2: Calculated CQ value: 92.0075132290631
Calculated Quality Value: 92.01
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip H:\SVCD Conversion\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file_CQ_TEST.avs
StreamSectors: 1665085576
AudioSectors: 111981940
VideoPAPO: 24058404
ScanOffsetBytes: 207165
SeqAligningBytes: 13166487
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 600.00
PureMPEGStream: 1515671572.33
Seconds: 5524.40
CalcMPEGStream: 1515671572.33
Frames: 138110
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Test Clip: Got MB per Frame: 11020.2965
Test Clip: Want MB per Frame: 10974.3796418314
Test Clip: CQ per Frame: 0.0083489144987218
Test Clip: New CQ value: 91.6241573061635
Test Clip1: Calculated CQ value: 91.8158352676133
Calculated Quality Value: 91.82
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding H:\SVCD Conversion\Movie\AviSynth_Script_file.avs
StreamSectors: 1665085576
AudioSectors: 111981940
VideoPAPO: 24058404
ScanOffsetBytes: 207165
SeqAligningBytes: 13166487
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 600.00
PureMPEGStream: 1515671572.33
Seconds: 5524.40
CalcMPEGStream: 1515671572.33
Frames: 138110
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Test Clip: Got MB per Frame: 10979.689
Test Clip: Want MB per Frame: 10974.3796418314
Test Clip: CQ per Frame: 0.00836233478631438
Test Clip: New CQ value: 91.7714366371069
Test Clip0: Calculated CQ value: 91.7936359523601
Using Quality Value: 91.87
Video Encoding finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 21/02/2002 2:41:33
- Free on drive D: 12502.04 mb
- Free on drive E: 34342.66 mb
- Free on drive H: 27729.56 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "H:\SVCD Conversion\Movie\TitlePicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 21/02/2002 2:41:37
- Free on drive D: 12502.72 mb
- Free on drive E: 34342.66 mb
- Free on drive H: 27729.47 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "H:\SVCD Conversion\Movie\ChangeCDPicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 21/02/2002 2:41:41
- Free on drive D: 12502.89 mb
- Free on drive E: 34342.66 mb
- Free on drive H: 27729.41 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 2
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 795 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "H:\SVCD Conversion\bbMPEG\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Length of H:\SVCD Conversion\bbMPEG\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
2793 Seconds
Offset in Seconds: 2795
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 795 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "H:\SVCD Conversion\bbMPEG\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 21/02/2002 2:52:32
- Free on drive D: 12504.51 mb
- Free on drive E: 34342.66 mb
- Free on drive H: 26181.41 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: H:\SVCD Conversion\bbMPEG\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
2795.232 seconds H:\SVCD Conversion\bbMPEG\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
Analyzing: H:\SVCD Conversion\bbMPEG\bbMPEG_Muxed_File01.mpg
2725.460 seconds H:\SVCD Conversion\bbMPEG\bbMPEG_Muxed_File01.mpg
Analyzing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 21/02/2002 2:54:10
- Free on drive D: 12504.50 mb
- Free on drive E: 34342.66 mb
- Free on drive H: 26181.34 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 17

CD image #1: CD_Image_File_CD1.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --cue-file="E:\Films\SVCD Images\CD_Image_File_CD1.cue" --bin-file="E:\Films\SVCD Images\CD_Image_File_CD1.bin" "E:\Films\SVCD Images\VCDXBuild_Script_1.xml"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 21/02/2002 2:55:39
- Free on drive D: 12504.50 mb
- Free on drive E: 33536.46 mb
- Free on drive H: 26181.31 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 15

CD image #2: CD_Image_File_CD2.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"D:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --cue-file="E:\Films\SVCD Images\CD_Image_File_CD2.cue" --bin-file="E:\Films\SVCD Images\CD_Image_File_CD2.bin" "E:\Films\SVCD Images\VCDXBuild_Script_2.xml"
CD-Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 21/02/2002 2:57:03
- Free on drive D: 12505.51 mb
- Free on drive E: 32772.80 mb
- Free on drive H: 26181.27 mb
- SVCD Creation finished!
--------------------------------------------------------

[dvd2svcd]

Sometimes I get strange errors with Daemon Tools too, usually they are solved by rebooting the computer. However, try loading the cue file in CD Mage and export it again to bin/cue. If you don't get any errors I'd say the your bin file is ok.

[DDogg]

The video quality looks Ok but before I can make a final judgment I need to compare with my other version done with CCE (same settings) on my TV set.

I hope you have a good sized set to judge it on. I am looking forward to you posting your opinion.

[Fastolfe]

Well, no luck so far. I did export successfully the original bin image with CDmage but the exported image is also unreadable thru Daemon. I have tried to reboot and also unstall/reinstall. Daemon still works with the other images (.iso .cue) I have stored on my HDs :confused: .

I also tried to burn the cue/bin with Nero but it goes as far as the titlepicture and PowerDVD XP crashes.

I will play around tomorrow with I-Author to create manually a working CD image hopefully with more success.

On the video quality check, luckily, my parents bought recently a 16/9 big Philips screen with a lot of fancy options and I have to say this screen is without mercy :) .
So I am pretty sure I will be able to see the differences between the CCE and TMPEnc version (if they exist of course).

Will keep you posted but will not happen before the weekend cos I have to go to my parents's place.

FF

[DDogg]

...my parents bought recently a 16/9 big Philips screen ...

Perfect! If you have the time please run two encodes with the suggested parameters up top. I am shameless when it comes to asking help on testing!

[24hourloop]

DDogg - I got here through the x-post on SVCD general - Where is the download? I'd like to give it a whirl...

I went up the thread but didn't find anything but then again I am known to be sloppy ...

DDogg edit: here (it is hard to find in this marathon thread :)

http://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=87345

[gldblade]

There's a small bug in DVD2SVCD. I don't think TMPGEnc normally allows a CQ value of 115.89... Maybe that should be brought down to 100...

[gldblade]

I have another problem. Whenever I try TMPGEnc with avs files, I get this really bad looking image. Like it was using only 256 colors. That pretty accurately describes what I'm seeing.

If I open the .d2v file up in TMPGEnc, it's fine. Also, if I VFAPI-convert it to .avi and open that up, that's also fine. It's only the .avs file.

Does anyone else have this problem?

[DDogg]

gldblade, first time I have heard that one. It seems like it is working fine for everybody I have heard from so far...Maybe you found a critter. Let us know if you figure it out. Oh, do the obvious and play the avs. It look ok?

As for the CQ > 100 ...seems like it works but D2S said he might have to cap it. Minor fix for the next test version. I got an encode today at CQ 168 on a short 30 minute AVI. Looked good but I did not run it through bitrate viewer. D2S though it might have let the bitrate go crazy. Check it out if you get a chance.

[mace]

I don't know if this will help anyone but I also ran into a problem burning my cds. The first time I burned them they seemed fine. I watched them today on my big scren to check them out. (Toshiba 50" hd)
On the third disc just about 10min from the end it stopped. So I went to reburn and it locked my computer up had to reboot several times and each time I tried same thing would happen. So I went to the wonderful crash recovery and started it from the "svcd authoring" let it do its thing and it worked fine now. Don't really know why it did that or why it was fixed but it worked. 1 last note the movie looked better than some vcd's and svcd's I have bought from over seas.
I will start another movie tonight and I will report tomorow it.

[gldblade]

>Oh, do the obvious and play the avs. It look ok?

Yes, the avs looks fine in everything but TMPGEnc.

[dvd2svcd]

gldblade: Did you install 1.0.6 build 4 before using pre28 ?

[Italbar]

Did a test on The Mummy between CCE 4 pass (IQP=10, no Noise Reduction, Linear, ZigZag, UpperField) with TemporalSmoother(2,1) and Simple Resize vs. TMPG CQ (at CQ about 85.xxxx) w/o TemporalSmoother but also with Simple Resize. Only difference between the AVS files was the TemporalSmoother addition.

My results:

1. The routines used to calculate CQ were dead-nuts on. In fact, the movie filesizes (CCE to TMPG) were within 1 meg of each other. Awesome job d2s!

2. The encoding was FAST! Five hours on my machine. No problems with discs or burning, etc.

3. I was disappointed with the overall quality of the TMPG version. It appeared blockier on my monitor, and the key frames were pretty obvious to me. Overall I thought the compression artifacts were much more visible to me on the TMPG version.

4. I ran both files through the bitrate analyzer (see robshot's CCE method if you are unfamiliar with the program I am talking about) Quite frankly, I was very surprised by what I saw: (I am typing this at work so don't have the exact info in front of me)

Maximum Bitrate: CCE=~3000, TMPG=~3100
Maximum Q Value: CCE=5.1xxx, TMPG=10.xxx

TMPG had almost 2X the Quantization max value as CCE, as well as having far more peaks than CCE.

If I understand the Q value correctly, it is a representation of the encoder's compression - possibly leading to lower quality. I quote from the Bitrate User's guide:

"The quantization scale: the higher number means heavier compression, the max. value is 31. It is about the quality, because the higher number may can be worse quality, but this is true just in case of the linear quantization methods."

However, I noted that CCE had a linear quantization and TMPG had non-linear, so I don't believe the two can be compared in this fashion. Anyone wiser out there than me who can tell me if there is any way to use bitrate viewer to determine a (by the numbers) way to compare the jobs these two are doing?

I realize that this could also be due to the fact that I used TemporalSmoother on the CCE version and not the TMPG version which I have read on these boards does lead to better compressibility.

I'm not sure that anyone is finding my results the least bit interesting, but here is what I am planning to do to see if I can get to a numerical basis to support my subjective judgment:

1. Re-run TMPG with TemporalSmoother(2,1) - in progress
2. Re-run TMPG with TemporalSmoother(2,1) and Linear scale (if TMPG can be told to do so within DVD2SVCD)
3. Re-run CCE with TemporalSmoother(2,1) w/ non-linear scale
4. Re-run CCE w/o TemporalSmoother w/ non-linear scale.

I should be able to get most of the results over the weekend. The plan is to build a table with Q value Avg and StdDev to determine (where comparisons can be made) which compressor produces mathematically better results.

Any comments? For you veterans out there: Any value in this sort of comparison?

Italbar

[DDogg]

I would suggest you do not use TS for either encoder (totally screws any comparison), use 2496 as max and 755 as min in the bitrate tab. Uncheck Linear Q for both. Use bicubic .0,.50 for both encodes. Then we can have an apples to apples comparison.

[Mozart]

try ddogg's sugestion, using 3 pass VBR. You will still see that CCE quality is much more better than tmpeg. ;)

Please, don't get me wrong. I still think that tmpeg support is a good DVD2SVCD enhancement. However, I think that tmpeg should be used only as a last resort, when everything fails with CCE.

[gldblade]

>Did you install 1.0.6 build 4 before using pre28 ?

Yep.

Still trying to figure this out...

[DDogg]

You will still see that CCE quality is much more better than tmpeg.

Mozart,
While I am a major CCE fan, I don't think the difference will be quite as clear (with CQ mode and those settings) as you suggest. We don't mind one way or the other, do we? :) Its all good.

[Mozart]

@ddogg

I didn't meant that tmpeg quality is bad. Actually, It is good enough for a lot of people. I only said that CCE quality, even with "only" 3 pass, is better than tmpeg CQ, for a given output file size. Now, with D2S new version, it will be much more easy to compare the quality of one against the other. The user can do his own test and decide which seems better to his own eyes. If after such comparison he/she think that tmpeg is better than CCE, there is no problem... at least for himself.

[Italbar]

Hmmm,

I have a few questions for you Ddog...

Why the change of the max/min bitrate, resize method, and no TS?

While I don't really mind re-doing the encodes, I think it will be interesting to see what the encoders can do with the same TS'd source. My logic is the following: If the inputs (i.e. DVD source, AVS script, file size - thanks to D2S, and D2S parameters) are the same and a mathematically measurable quality output (in this case Average and Standard Deviation of the Quant. value) is different, we should get an excellent comparison of the output of the "reasonable -best" method of the two encoders, at least from a mathematical perspective. In this case I am calling "reasonable best" of CCE 4 pass VBR and "reasonable best" of TMPG to be CQ with High Quality (slow) motion search.

Who knows? Maybe CCE will be better with different pre-processing parameters than TMPG. In any event, it is as Mozart stated - the user needs to decide with their own eyes. As I don't trust mine to be 100% objective, I'm trying to find a second (quantitative vs. qualitative) opinion. =)

But, as the saying goes: garbage in, garbage out. My goal is to have a level playing field for input, with that input being as close to the best input I can deliver to the encoders. I have seen you quote the AVS/D2S values you gave up above before. Are those the values that you find gives the best output, and thus you want me to check the encoding with the "best" parameters?

In any event, I plan on initially just showing the information on the encodes I currently have in the hopper, and then I have no problem branching out to look at different resizing / bitrate settings to further our understanding.

Hopefully I'll have something to post tonight.

Italbar

[Fastolfe]

First, I did compare on a big Philips 16/9 screen 2 runs that I did with a comedy movie. Same bitrate settings for TMPG (auto CQ) and CCE (multipass VBR 3) and with SimpleResize and no TS.
Well, I do prefer the CCE version because the image is slightly sharper and less macroblocks are visible. Now on my 4/3 old TV, the differences are less obvious.

Overall, both conversions are very close to each other, I would say no differences on all the slow scenes.
Now what really makes me choose the CCE version over TMPG are these macroblocks. There are visible (ok, you have to look the scene with the goal of checking for artifacts but then again ...) especially when there is a quick movement of an actor sideway like a hand moving from left to right quickly. The hand virtually disappears and is replaced by a 'soup' of big blocks (when I pause the movie it was even more horrible). The observation is valid for all fast actions scenes and when most of the image moves quickly, this means blocks everywhere.
IMO, CCE handles this better (far from perfection but the artefatcs are less visible -smaller- while I watch the movie).
Another observation, the blocks generated by TMPG seems to be limited to the part of the image that moves quickly (in my case the hand) while CCE artefacts are spreaded over a wider surface than just the action.

Secondly, I did some tests on one vob that has a lot of actions and different background colours. For these tests, I did use the settings recommended by DDogg for TMPG and I compared with CCE (same birate settings of course) one pass VBR with TS (takes around the same time to encode on my machine) and with CCE multipass 4, SimpleResize, no TS.

An easy call was on CCE one pass VBR with TS, this is truly hugly compared to the 2 other conversions, I think now it would be unwise to use CCE one pass VBR over TMPG auto CQ (quality is better with TMPG for +/- the same encoding time).

Now comes the more difficult part, as both TMPG and CCE VBR 4 multipass had a hard time to do a proper job (especially on the very fast actions). Both versions have artifacts but they are significantly different from each other. TMPG goes for blocks, blocks, blocks (I know I am repeating myself :p ) and CCE goes for a kind of 'mosquito clouds' (can't think of something better right now).
So, here again IMHO and for the overall quality, I go for CCE but to be fair I think everyone has to do some tests to see what best fits your eyes/screen/...
Of course, on a last note, on my machine 2xPIII, TMPG works 3 times faster than CCE multiVBR 4 (with these settings and with this vob file).

To sum up, I think I will stay with CCE for the time being (especially that I have these weird issues creating CDImages with TMPG conversions, need to figure out what is going on here).

Voilà, that's all folks for now, I will give my computer some time to rest now.

FF

[DDogg]

Why the change of the max/min bitrate, resize method, and no TS?
Some experimental settings I have gleaned from various places.
Bicubic gave me substantially better results on TMPG and CCE.
IMO, TS should only be used when bitrate is lower than 1600.

Are those the values that you find gives the best output, and thus you want me to check the encoding with the "best" parameters?
Yes

Same bitrate settings for TMPG (auto CQ) and CCE (multipass VBR 3) and with SimpleResize and no TS.

So, what bitrate settings did you use?
Secondly, I did some tests on one vob that has a lot of actions and different background colours. For these tests, I did use the settings recommended by DDogg for TMPG and I compared with CCE (same birate settings of course) one pass VBR with TS (takes around the same time to encode on my machine) and with CCE multipass 4, SimpleResize, no TS.

Well this is apples to oranges I think. Not to beat a dead horse, but if you ever have the time to compare a 3 pass CCE and CQ TMPG using the bicubic and bitrate settings I put up above it would be great.

Edit: OK, it's a hard read but I now understand that you did do a 4pass CCE and CQ tmpg run, right? I also think you used the suggested setting up top, but with simpleresize, correct?.

Now, we need to the very basic information about the source like: length of source
aspect ratio
What CQ TMPG used
Average bitrate CCE was given by D2S

Thanks!

[Fastolfe]

Ok , for the bitrate settings used for TMPG (auto CQ) and CCE (multipass VBR 3) and with SimpleResize and no TS, it is 2200.

And for the comparison, technically unfair maybe but I used CCE 1pass + TS vs TMPG CQ because it takes the same time to be processed. I am looking for the almost best quality but taking into account the time it takes to get there on my box. Here, my conclusion is (for 2 CPUs) use TMPG CQ.
And as for the CCE 4 pass vbr, it is for me the best quality overall (=reference) but it takes ages to be processed.
As mentioned in other posts, TMPG uses perfectly both processors (almost 100%) while CCE is more around 60%.

Could do the bicubical TMPG vs CCE 3 pass VBR but hey I only have one PC so I see this happening sometime next weekend, hope it is soon enough for you.

FF

[mato]

i think you should support it, but after the program becomse almost perfect, remeber new things always brings new problems!
thanx for dvd2svcd

[m3taPT]

I bet ure all gonna laugh, but i like tmpg cause u can press stop, then say "no" and resume later. like a pause. CCE doesnt have it.

I know its silly, but i use the progs at high priority, so a pause is something i definitely need sometimes, to check my email. *g*


@DDogg: i had ripped a DVD to 2cds where the 2nd was 900mb, using default settings of CQ. i am now reripping it with ur suggested settings. ill post results.

8 hrs later @DDogg: nope, cd2 still 900mb. CQ is completely and utterly... hmm.. ya know, i dont need to say it *breething deeply*

[mordant]

I just tried doing a Divx2SVCD encode with TMPGEnc CQ. The movie was a little less than 90min long and the CQ worked out to 90 or so. I used the simple resize. The AVI was widescreen and had been cropped of its black bars...so it came out as fullscreen. I wasn't that happy with the result, and would have liked to check how well it would have done if it had kept the aspect ratio.

Is there a way to change this in AVI2SVCD?

Thanks.

[moonman]

if we have the 1:1 vga aspect ratio to choose from in tmpgenc this would be much easier. if you encode the svcd with 1:1 vga aspect ratio, the dvd player resize the image after the settings you have and what tv you have. i always encode with that aspect ratio with tmpgenc, and my YAMAKAWA dvd resize it to 16:9 for my widescreen tv. maybe dvd2svcd implement that option too :)

[mordant]

Yes please, if aspect ratio choice could be put in the next release that would be perfect. Other than that my TMPGEnc encode from AVI ran smoothly and quicly. I continue to have problems with CCE, so this would lock DVD2SVCD in as my program of choice I think =)

Many thanks to DVD2SVCD for work and effort on a great piece of software.

[chainsaw135]

i meant to bump markrb settings thread before i made it a sticky and i was in this one...so its a mistake...thast alll

[dvd2svcd]

I don't get it, why bump this thread ?