Two DVD menu questions (ripping and re-encoding)

[ZenoArrow]

Hi,

Been struggling with ripping DVD menus with various programs, hope someone here can help.

Firstly, there are numerous freeware programs I've tried to use to extract DVD menus, none have given me quite what I'm looking for. The menu in question is a static image with audio (loops in just over a minute).

Ripped with DVD Shrink I get VOB and IFO files just containing the menu video and audio, which is fine (I intend to implement the buttons in AVStoDVD anyway), however AVStoDVD doesn't want to work with these files (throws an error). To get around this, I tried to convert the VOB/IFO files to a .mpg. If I use VOB2MPG the audio is converted but the video is blank, and if I try to convert the VOB/IFO files using Freemake Video Converter I get an error when opening the files.

Okay, so different approach, thought I'd try extracting the menu image directly, I can always add in the audio later. I tried using VobBlanker, but I haven't found the settings I need to isolate just the menu (the menu isn't the first stream shown, you have to select it manually, just so you know). SubRip is interesting in that it does give me a .bmp image of the menu but it's in false colours. I'm guessing this is a mask, and I'm thinking that it'll be useful, but how would you recommend I obtain the background image and line this up with the mask? That's my first question.

My second question is this: I noticed in SubRip that I could rip the DVD menu mask and store it in a .srt file, does this mean I can recreate DVD menus in a non-.iso container format (e.g. MKV, AVI, etc...) through embedding the .srt in some way? I know of the ratDVD format and it's ability to do so, but wondered if there was an actively developed format that supported menus in some way?

Thanks for reading. All help appreciated.
Tom

EDIT: Oh, and should point out that I've tried using PgcEdit as well for ripping the DVD menu image, and whilst I can find the DVD menu and preview it (with button settings also displayed) I can't find the function that will allow me to export to .bmp (and export the audio as well, if possible).

[Chetwood]

What "menu mask" does Subrip store into an SRT file? Are you talking about the text of the various buttons? Ok, Subrip does OCR text but SRT is a subtitle format. My sig links to a tutorial from back in the day when I ripped episodic discs and added my own simple menu to it. But even then I mostly ripped without menu and used PGCEdit's "DVD Shrink Remote Buttons" macro to select eps with the remote so there was no need for a menu anymore.

[manono]

Open the Menu Vob in DGIndex. If you want the BMP, save the BMP, if you want the M2V and audio, then File->Save Project and Demux Video. If you don't know DGIndex (and you should), it's part of the DGMPGDec package:

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/DGMPGDec

[ZenoArrow]

What "menu mask" does Subrip store into an SRT file? Are you talking about the text of the various buttons? Ok, Subrip does OCR text but SRT is a subtitle format. My sig links to a tutorial from back in the day when I ripped episodic discs and added my own simple menu to it. But even then I mostly ripped without menu and used PGCEdit's "DVD Shrink Remote Buttons" macro to select eps with the remote so there was no need for a menu anymore.

Thanks for your reply Chetwood.

Regarding my comments about .srt in Subrip, all I can say is that I got it wrong. The option seems to be there for storing an image in .sup rather than .srt, I guess I read it in a hurry. Option 'Save SubPictures As SUP Files' can be seen in following screenshot:
http://i54.tinypic.com/125rluh.jpg

Thank you for recommending your tutorial, I'll take a look. Just so I know, what formats support DVD-like menus? Just VOB/IFO and ISO?

Open the Menu Vob in DGIndex. If you want the BMP, save the BMP, if you want the M2V and audio, then File->Save Project and Demux Video. If you don't know DGIndex (and you should), it's part of the DGMPGDec package:

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/DGMPGDec

Thanks manono, I've got DGIndex installed already, I'll give it a try. If I do manage to rip the menu video, what method would you recommend me trying for reconstructing the interactive aspect of the menu (i.e. getting the buttons back)?

[manono]

Thanks manono, I've got DGIndex installed already, I'll give it a try. If I do manage to rip the menu video, what method would you recommend me trying for reconstructing the interactive aspect of the menu (i.e. getting the buttons back)?
My advice is to not deconstruct the menus at all. If you're using AVS2DVD, take the DVD video it makes for you and stick it back into the original DVD with the original menus. You use VobBlanker for this.

[ZenoArrow]

My advice is to not deconstruct the menus at all. If you're using AVS2DVD, take the DVD video it makes for you and stick it back into the original DVD with the original menus. You use VobBlanker for this.

Hi manono,

I don't think this is an option for me for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, DVD format is currently NTSC whereas I need it to be PAL. I've already got a working .avs script to convert from NTSC to PAL, but it does mean that I can't just leave the menus as is, they need to be deconstructed to be converted.

Secondly, I've got plans to merge a number of DVDs into one ISO, using PgcEdit to allow me to alter the ISO so that it burns correctly on a multilayer DVD. If I leave the DVD menus as they are, won't they all expect to be the 'root' menu? Seems to me it's better to set them up as submenus in the first place.

So can I use the menu mask I get from SubRip to help me reconstruct the menu layout?

[manono]

Oh, I think that's the first time you've mentioned this is an NTSC to PAL conversion. And that this one particular DVD will be just one of several on the disc. Then everything has to be converted, BMPs, subpics, buttons, everything. And it's not so easy.

Yes, you can extract and convert the menu BMP subpics. But this is all pretty difficult and I'm not at all sure I'd recommend trying to rebuild the original menus. Maybe use the original but converted menu background pictures if possible, but otherwise keep it simple in AVS2DVD. I don't use that program and can't help there. I don't know what it allows you to import and what it doesn't. And it's a lot easier to merge DVDs using DVDRemake Pro than it is using PGCEdit, although PGCEdit can do it.

Converting from NTSC to PAL can be very difficult. You might read this for an idea of what to expect:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Doctor-Ms-berGuide-for-Full-PAL-to-NTSC-DVD-Conversion-v20/topic/10111/

[ZenoArrow]

Oh, I think that's the first time you've mentioned this is an NTSC to PAL conversion. And that this one particular DVD will be just one of several on the disc. Then everything has to be converted, BMPs, subpics, buttons, everything. And it's not so easy.

Yes, you can extract and convert the menu BMP subpics. But this is all pretty difficult and I'm not at all sure I'd recommend trying to rebuild the original menus. Maybe use the original but converted menu background pictures if possible, but otherwise keep it simple in AVS2DVD. I don't use that program and can't help there. I don't know what it allows you to import and what it doesn't. And it's a lot easier to merge DVDs using DVDRemake Pro than it is using PGCEdit, although PGCEdit can do it.

Converting from NTSC to PAL can be very difficult. You might read this for an idea of what to expect:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Doctor-Ms-berGuide-for-Full-PAL-to-NTSC-DVD-Conversion-v20/topic/10111/

Hi manono,

Thanks again for your reply.

You misread what I said, I've already got the NTSC to PAL conversion stuff sorted. You can see my AviSynth script here if you're interested:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1510974&postcount=8

Thanks for the link anyway though.

Yes, basically I have to convert everything. Really though, the last major stumbling block is these menus. I'm happy that I can rip them, and resize them, what I'm trying to look for is the most efficient way to rebuild them. If you (or anyone else reading) has some good tips for putting DVD menus together quickly, I'd be grateful if I could hear them. :) Out of curiosity, if you don't use AVStoDVD, what tools do you use when putting together DVDs?

Thanks for the tip regarding DVDRemake Pro, alas it's commercial software, so I'll stick to PgcEdit. :)

[manono]

You misread what I said,
No I didn't. Converting the video is easy. Converting menus is what's hard. As I said, use the menu pics if you want but let whatever authoring program you use make the subpics and buttons.

What tools do I use? A whole bunch. All manual, no all-in-ones.

I'd be curious to see the rest of the thread for which you linked a post. Some of that script looks a bit screwy to me.

[Ghitulescu]

There is a dedicated topic on converting NTSC DVDs to PAL (or vice versa), including menus. This is not an easy task and frankly it is futile, as most if not all PAL gear can do NTSC [almost] perfectly.
You need to be familiarised with a certain number of tools, like VobBlanker, PGCedit, various muxers and demuxers and above all, how a DVD works.

PS: is pgcedit capable of working inside an ISO?

[ZenoArrow]

I'd be curious to see the rest of the thread for which you linked a post. Some of that script looks a bit screwy to me.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1510974

Works fine. Comments welcome though.


There is a dedicated topic on converting NTSC DVDs to PAL (or vice versa), including menus. This is not an easy task and frankly it is futile, as most if not all PAL gear can do NTSC [almost] perfectly.
You need to be familiarised with a certain number of tools, like VobBlanker, PGCedit, various muxers and demuxers and above all, how a DVD works.

Cool, any chance you could send me a link to the topic that includes converting menus?

I don't mind the difficulty, I'm willing to learn.


PS: is pgcedit capable of working inside an ISO?

Works fine with a mounted ISO.

[manono]

If it's not too late, do you have a sample from the NTSC source? 10 seconds with steady movement uploaded to MediaFire will be fine.

[ZenoArrow]

If it's not too late, do you have a sample from the NTSC source? 10 seconds with steady movement uploaded to MediaFire will be fine.

Sure manono, I can provide you with that, I've kept the original ISOs. File can be found here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?b15c1uwi7n5d9h1

Advice welcome.

[manono]

As I suspected, your cropping and resizing is messed up. You can just do a straight resize to 720x576, assuming you'll be reencoding for PAL as 4:3. No cropping or adding borders. I find it interesting that you decided to deinterlace and then recreate the whole thing at 25fps. There weren't any artifacts created when doing all that? I didn't really understand that whole script, but I guess you made a conscious decision not to keep it interlaced. If you were to keep it interlaced, a sample (and much faster script) script might go something like this:

AssumeTFF()
Yadif(Mode=1)#or your favorite bobber
Lanczos4Resize(720,576)
ChangeFPS(50)
AssumeTFF()
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()

There are some arguments that can be made against doing it that way, but for future reference you might be interested in it. The video stays the same length and the audio can be used unchanged.