Recommended intermediate HD codec

[Alex-Kid]

I have a football match capture in HD (1920x1080i, 30fps) that I want to edit to make it highlights. I need to save it to an intermediate file to apply graphics and transitions and then save it as MKV. I use DGAVCDecDI to decode the file, so I can use Avisynth to process it.

So my question is ¿what codec would you recommend to work as an intermediate one without losing too much quality? My upper limit is 145 Mbps (I thought of DNxHD, but afaik there are no DS codecs).

Saludos

By ALEX-KID

[Sagittaire]

there are many lossless codec. Anyway if you want lossy codec with really light loss try MPEG4 ASP (XviD or DivX) with only Iframe and at quant 1 ...

[Alex-Kid]

Thanks for your recommendation Sagittaire.

I finally used XviD as you told me, but it was kinda slow, even using avisource. I got about 6-12 fps in my C2Q Q6600. It would have been good to use a codec like DV for SD video, which is fast and it has very little loss. I tested Lagarith with HD video, and it's fast (20 fps), but less efficient (245 mbps!). Maybe there is a good HD codec, fast, good quality I-frame based, bitrate efficient (120-150 mbps@1080i) and DirectShow/VFW compatible somewhere in Internet.

Saludos

By ALEX-KID

[3ds]

One of the best loosless codec is IMHO Lagarith: http://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html

[Mug Funky]

based on what you've said of your workflow, you would do well to install AVFS (avisynth virtual file system) and pop the resulting uncompressed (and taking zero real space) file in your editing software to do cuts, fades, etc.

then export from there into anything you want.

this would be the fastest i think, bearing in mind i think it's your hard disk that's slowing things up, not your CPU.

[smok3]

cineform maybe http://www.cineform.com/products.php

[Daiz]

How about UTVideo? It's ridiculously fast to seek so you'd expect it to be pretty ideal for editing purposes.

[TheRyuu]

How about UTVideo? It's ridiculously fast to seek so you'd expect it to be pretty ideal for editing purposes.

This.

[kypec]

This.
Yeah, I was about to suggest the same codec as well. No experience with HD filesize requirements but the speed of decoding is excellent, especially on multicore CPUs.

[Alex-Kid]

Thank you all for your suggestions.

I know there are several lossless codecs, and using them would be optimal, but space (specially on HD video) is an issue on my system. CineForm doesn't have DS support AFAIK. My sources are loaded with DGAVCDecDi plugin, which has some problems when seeking on H.264 broadcast captures. I think AVFS could be my option if the script mounted works as a true uncompressed file when trimming it. I'll post results as soon as I have some time to test. If not, I think I'll have to buy a larger HDD.

Saludos

By ALEX-KID

[smok3]

also: http://www.matrox.com/video/en/support/windows/vfw_software_codecs/downloads/softwares/version1.0/

[kolak]

Matrox is the worse crap out there...slow.

From free ones UTVideo is amazing- unmatched speed. You can edit 4K on good PC :) It's lossless so bitrates are more than 200Mbit for HD.

If you can pay than Cineform or Canopus codecs (HQX- many bitrate settings), which you can get by buying Edius or cheap Edius Neo.


Andrew

[smok3]

From free ones UTVideo is amazing- unmatched speed and the latest version is? (drums) some cute links? (drums)

[kypec]

and the latest version is? (drums) some cute links? (drums)
Ever heard of :search: functions? Or Google?
The codec has even its own thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=143624) on this very forum...

[Atak_Snajpera]

@Alex-Kid
I use x264 as intermediate codec for AVCHD files (camcorder)
x264.exe "script.avs" --tff --bitrate 50000 --vbv-bufsize 5000 --vbv-maxrate 50000 --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --output "video.264"


It is not lossless (above cmd) ofcourse but still gives very good quality. During conversion from 24Mbps 1920x1080i I get ~37 fps on my Q6600@3ghz. If you are not satisfied with quality you can always increase bitrate
(--bitrate 75000 --vbv-bufsize 7500 --vbv-maxrate 75000)

[sneaker_ger]

Why bufsize only a tenth of bitrate/maxrate? Why vbv at all?

[Atak_Snajpera]

Why bufsize only a tenth of bitrate/maxrate? Why vbv at all?
Why would you use larger buffer size for intra only mode? At the begining I was using even 2000 but I had problems with buffer underflow.

[sneaker_ger]

So, why use vbv at all?

[Atak_Snajpera]

So, why use vbv at all?
To reduce decoding lag? In theory --vbv-bufsize 2000 should be enough for 1 frame (--vbv-maxrate 50000 / 25fps) but it is not (buffer underflow). So I decidede to use buffer for 2.5 frames

[sneaker_ger]

There's significant decoding lag on i-fame-only encodes?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to criticize you - just trying to understand the reasoning behind your settings.

[Atak_Snajpera]

Basically I wanted to have easy to edit files. Seeking in Sony Vegas should be slightly faster for example. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that decoder has to fill in whole buffer before decoding selected frame.

[sneaker_ger]

I don't think that's true, it only has to wait for the frame to be completely downloaded. But then again, I'm no expert.

[Alex-Kid]

@Alex-Kid
I use x264 as intermediate codec for AVCHD files (camcorder)
x264.exe "script.avs" --tff --bitrate 50000 --vbv-bufsize 5000 --vbv-maxrate 50000 --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --output "video.264"


It is not lossless (above cmd) ofcourse but still gives very good quality. During conversion from 24Mbps 1920x1080i I get ~37 fps on my Q6600@3ghz. If you are not satisfied with quality you can always increase bitrate
(--bitrate 75000 --vbv-bufsize 7500 --vbv-maxrate 75000)

I think this is a very good recommendation, considering the use of DGAVCDecDi, which is fast on decoding. Do you know if this settings work with DGAVCDecDi (specially the use of intra frame only)?

I tested Matrox codecs and the only ones that worked with my HD sources (1920x1080i) were the uncompressed codecs: not useful.

Saludos

By ALEX-KID

[Atak_Snajpera]

Do you know if this settings work with DGAVCDecDi (specially the use of intra frame only)?
It would be weird if DGAVCDecDi couldn't decode AVC-INTRA ;) ffmpeg-mt , libavcodec and microsoft decoder have no problems with decoding.

[CruNcher]

Did someone already compared AVC-INTRA vs VP8-INTRA, i guess this could be really interesting also over several generations and in terms of speed :)

[Alex-Kid]

Did someone already compared AVC-INTRA vs VP8-INTRA, i guess this could be really interesting also over several generations and in terms of speed :)
That's true, but AFAIK WebM has only DS playback filters (as shown here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154669)). Are these ones frame accurate to use them with Avisynth's DirectShowSource?

[Chikuzen]

That's true, but AFAIK WebM has only DS playback filters (as shown here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154669)). Are these ones frame accurate to use them with Avisynth's DirectShowSource?

you can process them with ffms2.
libavcodec is the fastest VP8 decoder at now.

[space1999]

That's true, but AFAIK WebM has only DS playback filters (as shown here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154669)). Are these ones frame accurate to use them with Avisynth's DirectShowSource?

I think so, because VP8 does not use B-frames.

Besides,

- ffdshow can decode VP8 through VfW

- as a last resort, one can always remux VP8 in AVI and use AVISource() :D

[Alex-Kid]

I think so, because VP8 does not use B-frames.

Besides,

- ffdshow can decode VP8 through VfW

- as a last resort, one can always remux VP8 in AVI and use AVISource() :D

Those are good options to consider.

I did two tests with the suggestion made by CruNcher: h.264 vs WebM.

h.264: used x264 (r1995) with the command line provided by Atak_Snajpera.
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --bitrate 50000 --vbv-bufsize 5000 --vbv-maxrate 50000 --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --ssim --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.mkv"
WebM: used ffmpeg (r25870-Sherpya) with the following command line
ffmpeg.exe -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -y -b 50000k "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.webm"

Used the SSIM index as an objective quality metric (Avisynth SSIM) and compared both videos. This is the result:

5759 frames, 29.97 fps, 1920x1080i

X264
36.88 fps, 50 mbps

SSIM: Structural Similarity Index Metric 0.23
Average SSIM= 88.66771698


FFMPEG VP8
~ 2 fps, 23.9 mbps

SSIM: Structural Similarity Index Metric 0.23
Average SSIM= 85.55319214

x264 took less than realtime to code. ffmpeg is still too much slow for doing this task, it didn't respect the bitrate (is less than a half of it), but showed to be very close to x264 SSIM.

I think that WebM could be a candidate for intermediate codec when it gets faster encode times. This shouldn't be difficult considering it's a less complex format than h.264 (Or am I wrong?)

Saludos

By ALEX-KID

[nm]

SSIM = 88.66771698 doesn't sound quite good enough for intermediate video, although I haven't used the AviSynth implementation on interlaced video. Anyway, I'd drop those VBV limits and use --crf 10 (or lower), and maybe pick a slower preset than superfast.

WebM might become an alternative at some point, but your test doesn't show how far it is. You compared x264 with very fast settings, intra-frame encoding, 50 mbps bitrate against WebM with slow settings, inter-frame encoding and 25 Mbps bitrate.

[Alex-Kid]

SSIM = 88.66771698 doesn't sound quite good enough for intermediate video, although I haven't used the AviSynth implementation on interlaced video. Anyway, I'd drop those VBV limits and use --crf 10 (or lower), and maybe pick a slower preset than superfast.

WebM might become an alternative at some point, but your test doesn't show how far it is. You compared x264 with very fast settings, intra-frame encoding, 50 mbps bitrate against WebM with slow settings, inter-frame encoding and 25 Mbps bitrate.
I agree with you, but you can still use a higher bitrate (100 mbps perhaps) to raise up SSIM. I couldn't get vpxenc to work with Avisynth and as I said on previous post, ffmpeg didn't respect the bitrate specified. I have to admit I have little experience tweaking cli settings. Do you have any suggested settings, specially for WebM?

[CruNcher]

a PSNR of @ least 50 is generally ok for intermediate purposes and visually loss less SSIM most probably would be quite high in the 9x range 0.98-0.99 i guess so 50-70-100 Mbit/s seems to be a good base, and then look @ the decrease over 10 generations

[henryho_hk]

Why not XviD @ "ME=6, VHQ=1, no b-frames, chroma ME, EQM EHR, constant quantizer=2" (i.e., Editing only preset)

[Sagittaire]

Why not XviD @ "ME=6, VHQ=1, no b-frames, chroma ME, EQM EHR, constant quantizer=2" (i.e., Editing only preset)

better to use q1, low coef matrix (flat 8), ME=1, VHQ=0 with only Iframe. Intermediate codec must have the best possible quality with high speed.

[henryho_hk]

Some tests using XviD 1.3.2 (and its internal SSIM calculator)


Matrix CQ VHQ KeyInt Bytes XviD SSIM XviD DSSIM SSIM 0.25 Mbps
EQM_EHR 2 1 240 2066947012 0.99756453 410.60 95.924313 61.31
FLAT8 2 1 240 2282251752 0.99719754 356.83 95.667952 67.70
EQM_EHR 2 0 240 2331591210 0.99705402 339.45 95.548083 69.16
FLAT8 2 0 240 2351546490 0.99704420 338.32 95.538876 69.75
EQM_EHR 2 0 1 2530233380 0.99758143 413.47 95.884627 75.06
EQM_EHR 2 1 1 2530233380 0.99758143 413.47 95.884627 75.06
FLAT8 2 0 1 4062787499 0.99728564 368.41 95.819092 120.52
FLAT8 2 1 1 4062787499 0.99728564 368.41 95.819092 120.52
EQM_EHR 1 1 240 4187715602 0.99925288 1,338.47 97.977496 124.22
EQM_EHR 1 0 1 4378203200 0.99907440 1,080.38 97.437817 129.87
EQM_EHR 1 1 1 4378203200 0.99907440 1,080.38 97.437817 129.87
FLAT8 1 1 240 4892268650 0.99971158 3,467.19 98.843035 145.12
EQM_EHR 1 0 240 5349473908 0.99987316 7,883.87 99.164567 158.68
FLAT8 1 0 240 5363731504 0.99987795 8,193.58 99.174940 159.11
FLAT8 1 0 1 5698372989 0.99954413 2,193.59 98.379881 169.03
FLAT8 1 1 1 5698372989 0.99954413 2,193.59 98.379881 169.03

[Sagittaire]

Here the most important is not size but speed/size.

[Atak_Snajpera]

"ffmpeg.exe" -threads 4 -i "E:\_Video_Samples\HDcam\00001.mts" -flags +ildct+ilme -b 50000000 -r 25.000 -vcodec libx264 -preset superfast -tune fastdecode -threads 4 -x264opts keyint=1:nal-hrd=vbr:vbv-bufsize=50000:vbv-maxrate=50000 -ab 512000 "C:\temp\AVC-INTRA.mp4"

While encoding with above command I get 30+ fps on my Q6600@3ghz. Source is AVCHD@24Mbps.

Decoding speed with libavcodec (1 thread) is ~55 fps

[Alex-Kid]

Did some more tests, here is the info:

CLI CODEC/CODER BITRATE SPEED(fps) SSIM(v0.23)
-------------------------------------------------------------
(1) x264 50 mbps 36.88 fps 88.66771698
(2) VP8(ffmpeg) 23.9 mbps ~2 fps 85.55319214
(3) x264 100 mbps 33.23 fps 95.32942963
(4) xvid_encraw 237 mbps 9.93 fps 96.94023053
(5) lagarith 235 mbps 35.30 fps 100.00000954



5759 frames, 29.97 fps, C2Q Q6600@2.4 GHz

------------------------------------------------
(1)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --bitrate 50000 --vbv-bufsize 5000 --vbv-maxrate 50000 --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --ssim --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.mkv"

36.88 fps, 50 mbps

SSIM: Structural Similarity Index Metric 0.23
Average SSIM= 88.66771698

------------------------------------------------
(2)
ffmpeg.exe -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -y -b 50000k "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.webm"

~ 2 fps, 23.9 mbps

SSIM: Structural Similarity Index Metric 0.23
Average SSIM= 85.55319214

------------------------------------------------
(3)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --bitrate 100000 --vbv-bufsize 20000 --vbv-maxrate 100000 --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV100.mkv"

33.23 fps, 100 mbps

SSIM: Structural Similarity Index Metric 0.23
Average SSIM= 95.32942963

------------------------------------------------
(4)
xvid_encraw.exe -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -max_bframes 0 -cq 1 -quality 1 -vhqmode 0 -qmatrix "c:\Archivos de programa\K-Lite Codec Pack\Tools\Xvid_Quant_Matrices\Flat 8-16.xcm" -interlaced 2 -qtype 1 -threads 4 -o "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.avi"

9.93 fps 237 mbps

SSIM: Structural Similarity Index Metric 0.23
Average SSIM= 96.94023053


------------------------------------------------
(5)
Lagarith (lossless, used as reference)

35.30 fps 235 mbps

SSIM: Structural Similarity Index Metric 0.23
Average SSIM= 100.00000954


I'm thinking that (3) cli settings is enough for intermediate codec, given its high SSIM. Maybe 120 mbps would be a little better.

Does anyone know if well known Cineform has better values? Being a wavelet codec, could that be an advantage to achieve higher performance and quality?

[nm]

Could you try x264 without VBV and with CRF rate control instead of CBR, as suggested earlier:

--crf 8 --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1

and also with slower settings:

--crf 8 --preset veryfast --keyint 1

If you have time to play with it, adjust CRF so that you get a final bitrate close to 100 mbps. Then the result can be compared with your last numbers.

[henryho_hk]

I thought you want a codec for capturing.

If u do have an AVS to start with, try four simultaneous runs of single-threaded xvid_encraw using EQM_EHR @ CQ=2, VHQ=0 and KeyInt=1.

[henryho_hk]

Did some more tests, here is the info:


What about decoding performance?

[Atak_Snajpera]

@Alex-Kid
I think you should add --aq-mode 2 --no-psy options if you want higher ssim values.

[henryho_hk]

Since he is doing big intermediate encoding, would "--aq-mode 0" be better?

[CruNcher]

yes might be seeing the results the blu-ray pros get with it @ high bitrates it might be backfiring (it needs to be evaluated) though then you dont improve on ssim but on psnr and can use --tune psnr anyways that also will disable AQ

[Alex-Kid]

Well this is the last info from the tests:

CLI CODEC/CODER BITRATE SPEED(fps) SSIM(v0.23)
---------------------------------------------------------------
(1) x264 50 mbps 36.88 fps 88.66771698
(2) VP8(ffmpeg) 24 mbps ~2 fps 85.55319214
(3) x264 100 mbps 33.23 fps 95.32942963
(4) xvid_encraw 237 mbps 9.93 fps 96.94023053
(5) lagarith 235 mbps 35.30 fps 100.00000954
(6) x264 115 mbps 32.62 fps 96.51400277
(7) x264 111 mbps 33.02 fps 96.45086489
(8) HCEnc 102 mbps 2.20 fps 94.13687145
(9) DNxHD(ffmpeg) 145 mbps 13.55 fps 95.35936372
(10) VP8(ffmpeg) 84 mbps 4.38 fps 93.42168415
(11) xvid(VDub) 103 mbps ~35 fps 95.49778054


5759 frames, 29.97 fps, C2Q Q6600@2.4 GHz

x264 r1995
ffmpeg SVN-r25870-Sherpya
xvid_encraw (31-08-2007 build)
lagarith v1.3.25
HCEnc v0.26

------------------------------------------------
(1)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --bitrate 50000 --vbv-bufsize 5000 --vbv-maxrate 50000 --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --ssim --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.mkv"

------------------------------------------------
(2)
ffmpeg.exe -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -y -b 50000k "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.webm"

------------------------------------------------
(3)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --bitrate 100000 --vbv-bufsize 20000 --vbv-maxrate 100000 --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV100.mkv"

------------------------------------------------
(4)
xvid_encraw.exe -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -max_bframes 0 -cq 1 -quality 1 -vhqmode 0 -qmatrix "c:\Archivos de programa\K-Lite Codec Pack\Tools\Xvid_Quant_Matrices\Flat 8-16.xcm" -interlaced 2 -qtype 1 -threads 4 -o "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.avi"

------------------------------------------------
(5)
Lagarith (lossless, used as reference)

------------------------------------------------
(6)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --crf 8 --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV100.264"

------------------------------------------------
(7)
x264.exe "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" --tff --crf 8 --aq-mode 2 --no-psy --preset superfast --tune fastdecode --keyint 1 --output "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV100.264"

------------------------------------------------
(8)
HCEnc

*INFILE c:\documents and settings\alex-kid\mis documentos\mis vídeos\test.avs
*OUTFILE C:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.m2v
*DBPATH C:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\HD EDIT
*LLPATH C:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\HD EDIT
*MAXBITRATE 120000
*FRAMES 0 5758
*PROFILE best
*ASPECT 1:1
*GOP 1 0
*CQ_MAXBITRATE 1.000
*AQ 3
*DC_PREC 11
*INTERLACED
*TFF
*CLOSEDGOPS
*FRAMELOG
*INTRAVLC 2
*MATRIX mpeg
*LUMGAIN 3

------------------------------------------------
(9)
ffmpeg -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -vcodec dnxhd -yuv420p -flags -ildct -threads 4 -b 145000k -an output.mov "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\GALV.mov"

NOTE: ffmpeg encoded the file as yuv422p (did not recognize yuv420p flag), so the ssim script was modified as follows:

clip1=avisource("test.avs")
clip2=ffvideosource("GALV.mov", colorspace="yv12")

ssim(clip1,clip2,"results.csv","averageSSIM.txt")

------------------------------------------------
(10)
ffmpeg -i "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\test.avs" -intra -y -flags -ildct -threads 4 -vcodec libvpx -b 50000k -an "c:\Documents and Settings\Alex-Kid\Mis documentos\Mis vídeos\output.webm"

------------------------------------------------
(11)
XviD 1.3.2, EQM V3EHR, VHQ 0, MSP 6, CQ2, Keyframe Interval=1, slice-based multithread mode and Virtualdub 1.9 (Q6600@3.2Ghz ... lagarith running at ~40fps).


I haven't had the time to do some more testing, but I think that these ones should be enough. It seems that x264 is the codec to use for intermediate encoding (at least the free one), considering bitrate, speed and quality.

If anyone wants to continue testing, this is the link (http://www.mediafire.com/?q7ibeg450am9pwi) to the capture file I used.

Saludos

By ALEX-KID

[henryho_hk]

Can u describe more clearly the sequence and the programs involved? e.g. what program will be used "to edit to make it highlights"?

I am thinking if you can use "makeavis.exe" from ffdshow32 to make a AVI wrapper over the AVS script which decodes the HD capture file. (btw, it looks more like 1080@30p)

[Alex-Kid]

@henryho_hk

Without intermediate codec:

capture.ts → DGAVCIndexDI → capture.dgi → capture.avs:
dgsource("capture.dgi")
(...) #trims, dissolves, etc.
↓
x264 capture.avs capture.264 [final encoding]

------------------------------
With intermediate codec:

capture.ts → DGAVCIndexDI → capture.dgi → capture.avs:
dgsource("capture.dgi")
(...) #trims to reduce file size
↓
intermediate-codec-cli capture.avs capture.ext [intermediate encoding]
↓
intermediate.avs:
avi-/directshow-/other-/source("capture.ext")
(...) #trims, dissolves, etc.
↓
x264 capture.avs capture.264 [final encoding]

Is that what you wanted?

[Blue_MiSfit]

x264 is about as good as it gets, provided you're okay with 4:2:0. If you aren't then you must look elsewhere.

10 bit works, but decoding hasn't quite caught up to 8 bit :)

ProRes and DNxHD are probably the best options available for this exact workflow to be honest... Not that they're always practical!

[henryho_hk]

um... sorry that I am getting lost... but what is the problem without an intermediate file? you can "import()" avs scripts of "stage 1" into "stage 2". is there something being done not using avs script?

[Alex-Kid]

@henryho_hk: I forgot a step in the workflow, now it's added...

Intermediate file should help me to avoid crashes (due to many trims and dissolves, remember I use DGAVCDecDI) and to reduce file size.