Help in setting 4 cd encode

[onatskii]

Im still a svcd newbie, i have a dvd here with 180 minutes runtime and planning to rip it in 4 cds (800Mb each). My question is how can i make this possible if in the bitrate tab the last selection is Between 163 and 9999 minutes Use 3 CD size 800Mb? Please give appropriate settings for my problem. And one more thing whats the difference between a Q factor of 1 and 5? Will i gain more video quality using Q factor 1 and whats the downside using it??

Thanks kindly.

Onatskii

[xrv1138]

for the Q factor question
search this site thoroughly
and read
http://www.edensrising.com/dvd2svcd/dvd2svcd_advref.html#cce
under cce

and read
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13435

[xrv1138]

for the size question
use the bitrate calculator here :
http://www.vcdhelp.com/calc.htm
use advanced mode if u want to us more than one sound track
get the data from that to enter into the bitrate tab in dvd2svcd
for the line in the table you mentioned
the result should be inside acceptable rates for this program and svcd specs
you could also just change the 3 disks to 4 disks in the line for 163 to 9999 and see how she runs :)

[onatskii]

thanks for your immediate response xrv1138, much appreciated :cool:
i followed the links u gave me and start from there. I decided instead of Q5 I went to Q3. I looked at the log its says:

Video Encoding Mode: One Pass VBR
Q. Factor: 3
Min. bitrate: 300
Max. bitrate: 1645

Here's the value i got from bitrate calculator:

Max 2528 Min 300 Min Ave 1642 Max Ave 2408

I just wonder how come in dvd2svcd log my maxbitrate is 1645 but i set the maxbitrate to 2528?? pls explain.

Up to now i still cant figure how to set the bitrates to maximize the file to 800/disc using one pass. pls enlighten me. :confused:

onatskii

[markrb]

DVD2SVCD will reduce the bitrate to make it fit the number of discs requested, but will not exceed the Max AVG setting on the bitrate tab for average in CCE. Most likely the number of cd's is set too low. Increase them to the number you want next to the minutes of the movie you are encoding.

Mark

[Alexis]

Some notes:

1) "use the bitrate calculator here: http://www.vcdhelp.com/calc.htm "
But why is max. bitrate is 2720kbps ?

- max bitrate is defined by Philips for SVCD as 2600kbps (video+audio), where 1kb = 1000b and not 1024b! There is big mistake, becouse CCE count with 1kb as 1024b.

In DVD2SVCD bitrate must be tested max.limit 2600 000/1024 = 2540kbps (=Max Video+audio1+audio2), not 2723, because Max and Max.avg are for CCE and it works in kb=1024.

2) Will be usefully in next version of DVD2SVCD add window (not editable) in bitrate with suma of Max+Audio1+Audio2.

[Labersack]

Up to now i still cant figure how to set the bitrates to maximize the file to 800/disc using one pass

If you want to get 4 complete filed CDs, you can't use 1passVBR. With this method the filesize can't be calculated exactly.
You have to use CBR or multi-pass-VBR to get the correct file sizes.

[markrb]

Alexis to answer your questions:

1) becuase you can change it
2) simple math and you are all set. Plus it already has this.

More detailed.

1)Many DVD players can easily play out of spec SVCD's. My Pionneer can play 2600 video + 224 audio no problem.
On top of that only the audio stream that is being used matters to the Player. If you have 2 audio streams and becuase of this go beyond the Max capabilities of your DVD player it doesn't matter. The player is not even decoding the other audio stream. Only way it matters is with space on the disc.
Most people here have no problem at all with the defaults. If you have any problems it is simple enough to change the Max.

2)If you look at the bitrate range it all ready takes into account all the information in the last cube.

Mark

[Alexis]

ad 1) It is not true. In DVD players (standallone) are drivers for CD (SVCD too), which have limited reading date from disk.

ad2) I'm thought, that each program has make easy work. Why counting and still to think about, how is set audio, when is so easy add one LABEL with suma of MAX+A1+A2.

[markrb]

So you are saying that my DVD player cannot play exactly what it works perfect doing? I am not alone in this either. Look at www.vcdhelp.com there are players listed there that can play up to 4000 kbit perfect.
Take a look at this link and read the large number of DVD players that will play 2500 kbit and above video perfect.
http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDname=&Search=Search&list=0&listall=List+All+Alphabetical

If what you say is true and DVD players cannot play this higher bitrate why are most people here not having any problems?

Every DVD player is different and there are some that cannot play SVCD's at all, but most that do will play this higher bitrate fine and if you cannot you can change it.

You have no support for your argument.


Mark

[Alexis]

May be, but it is difficult make Label MAX+A1+A2 for people, who can have trouble (f.eg. Samsungs players ) ?

[gerti67]

Hi Alexis,

just e few more notes to add to yours:

Where do you read that it is only 2600kbps for video and audio? Philips itself sometimes speaks of 2500kbps for video, 32-384kbps for audio and sometimes of 2600kbps of which no one knows wether for video only or for video and audio. So that in the end it would vary from 2600kbps for video and audio to 2600+384=2984kbps for video and audio. You can see that even at Philips - the "founder" of the SVCD standard - one hand does not know what the other hand is doing.

I read a lot on this topic myself and finally found a very good site with some guys that sure know of what they are talking about. ( http://www.edv-tipp.de/dvd/032_max_data.htm )
(Remark: The links to the pdf files in it don't work anymore as Philips decided to not make them public anymore and to sell them for 200$ now)

Although it's in german, i think the calculations are some kind of self-explaining. And as a short summary: They use the "Sector Rate" defined by Philips to calculate the possible data rate for video and audio what really makes sense as the drive of the DVD player has to meet this 2x speed which is necessary for the 150Hz Sector Rate and is the most important limiting factor at all.

And based on this they calculate a data rate of 2718kbps for video and audio (and with the data overhead already included).

And taking into consideration that dvd2svcd uses CCE only for the video encoding and presumed that CCE really uses 1024 bytes instead of 1000 bytes you only have to correct the video data rate to exactly meet the Philips specification.
For me that would be 2718kbps max - 192kbps audio = 2526kbps video / 1.024 => 2466kbps for CCE video.

So the anxious among us really can be on the safe side with this, i think.

Greetings,
gerti67

[markrb]

The program is made for the largest possible cross section. To cater to each players individual issues is not possible.
If you are to lazy to take a couple of minutes out of your time to adjust the settings to make it work better for you then move on to something else.

There was enough forethought put in this program to give you the ability to change settings. Learn how to use them.

Mark

[markrb]

http://www.vcdhelp.com/svcd.htm

Take a look at this link. There is a graph based on info from Philips clearly showing that the video bitrate is 2600. Then there is a seperate section showing the audio bitrate to add to the video bitrate of 32-384.
So if you base your conclusions solely on Philips then actually the Max bitrate of video and audio combined is 2984 give or take the 1000 to 1024 difference we have here.

Mark

[Alexis]

to markrb: it is not only for one players. This is info for all, how is set whole bitrate. In code it is very easy ... But i see, it is very , very big problem ...

[gerti67]

@Alexis:

Indeed it is not a very big problem, just try on your own what your player is capable of and use these settings for all your conversions. So it is a one-time-try-and-forget-forever-about-it setting.

And with the increasing quality of the DVD players (and especially the built in drives) you can forget about any problems in the future, i think.

Greetings,
gerti67

[markrb]

Alexis how can you possibly say this is a problem at all.

If the bitrate doesn't work change it. Simple enough.

I ask again if this is such a big problem why are you the only person having it?

- You wrote.
max bitrate is defined by Philips for SVCD as 2600kbps (video+audio),

Obviously this is wrong if you look at the page of info where Philips says the video bitrate is 2600 not the combined.

This is real simple. If you encode a video using the default values and you have a problem simply lower them and try again until you get a perfect video for your player. Once you find the right settings you never have to change them. You even have the ability to encode only one chapter and use a CDRW disc to test you player until you get it right. At most this should take a couple of hours once.
DVD2SVCD does enough of the work already, you seriously can't object to doing a little work yourself and if you do then this isn't the right program for you.

Mark

[SiliconSoul]

how would i tell dvd2svcd to use so many cds? say i want to use 4 cds on a 105 min dvd... is this possible?

i thought i understood this till i read this thread!

[markrb]

SiliconSoul technically the answer is yes by just putting 4 next to the minutes. There is a catch. What happens when there just isn't enough bits to fit on to 4 cd's? Answer you get less. For example if you set the Max Bitrate to 2500 and the Max Avg to 2350 then there is no way you will get enough bits out of a 100 minute video to fill 4 cd's. Even at CBR 2500 you will not fill 4 cd's. The only way to do this is to raise the MAX values you let CCE use. Your DVD player won't play it though.

Think of the bits as a bucket of water and the cd's as glasses. You only have so much water in the bucket to fill those glasses to get it to fill more glasses you need a bigger bucket.

Mark

[Mozart]

Originally posted by onatskii
thanks for your immediate response xrv1138, much appreciated :cool:
i followed the links u gave me and start from there. I decided instead of Q5 I went to Q3. I looked at the log its says:

Video Encoding Mode: One Pass VBR
Q. Factor: 3
Min. bitrate: 300
Max. bitrate: 1645

Here's the value i got from bitrate calculator:

Max 2528 Min 300 Min Ave 1642 Max Ave 2408

I just wonder how come in dvd2svcd log my maxbitrate is 1645 but i set the maxbitrate to 2528?? pls explain.

Up to now i still cant figure how to set the bitrates to maximize the file to 800/disc using one pass. pls enlighten me. :confused:

onatskii

hi,

As mark already said, it is very dificult to calculate the file size of the encoded movie when we are using 1passVBR. However, if the Qfactor is smaller than 5, the CCE behaviour is almost as if it was doing CBR. For example, if you are using min=300, max=1500, Q=5, CCE will create a file which size is the almost the same as if you were using CBR=1500. Because of this, DVD2SVCD uses the calculated bitrate (calcB) as following:
multipassVBR -> average_bitrate = calcB
1passVBR -> maximum_bitrate = calcB
CBR -> bitrate = calcB

did you got it?

[SiliconSoul]

okay mark so if my dvd player lets me play say upto 4000 i can set that as the max?

im just trying to see if im getting anywhere with this... :cool:

lets just say my dvd player can play that high... and you bet im going to test it out too.... :-)

i set the max at 4000 mac avg 2200 min 300

i would get the best quality? or no... even though dvd min are like 4000 and avg is close to 6000-7000 and max is 9800

why would my dvd player not play a svcd with a max of 9800 since dvd is that high? besides the whole point that it would take like 8cds :D

how would i know if it could not play it?

loss of video ? artifacts? disortions? :confused:


also here are the biterate viewer settings from svcd off the net i downloaded.. compared to dvd2svcd and dvd


why all the difference from the downloaded ones and the dvd2svcd...
both look great but way different options...

please try and answer all my questions! :) thanks

downloaded svcd

Num. of picture read: 64809
Stream type: MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Resolution: 480*480
Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 29.97
Nom. bitrate: 2450000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 10
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: Yes
DCT type: Frame
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: Alternate
Frame type: Interlaced
Notes:


dvd2svcd

Num. of picture read: 30108
Stream type: MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Resolution: 480*480
Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 29.97
Nom. bitrate: 2530000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 9
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: No
DCT type: Frame
Quantscale: Linear
Scan type: ZigZag
Frame type: Interlaced
Notes:

downloaded svcd

Num. of picture read: 82853
Stream type: MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Resolution: 480*480
Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 29.97
Nom. bitrate: 9800000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 10
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: Yes
DCT type: Frame
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: Alternate
Frame type: Interlaced
Notes:

dvd vob file 1 savethelastdance

Num. of picture read: 30172
Stream type: MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Resolution: 720*480
Aspect ratio: 16:9 Generic
Framerate: 29.97
Nom. bitrate: 9800000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 10
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: Yes
DCT type: Field
Quantscale: Linear
Scan type: ZigZag
Frame type: Progressive
Notes:

[SiliconSoul]

well i did an encode with max 4000 and max avg 2500 and my player survived... there are a few video messups but a ton less than i though and im sure i can go higher... i prob need to keep the max avg closer to the max but that will make it take up WAY too many cds