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komaklar
5th February 2002, 17:26
hiho!

month ago i read a thread about iuvcr (iulab) and i was surprised about its quality!

virtual dub + my original anubis driver failed totally!
i wasn't even able to capture 320*240 huffyuv....
but iulab and its special wdm-capture driver (compatible with winxp) works just perfect!
only disadvantage, its not free and has a limt of days, so you have to install it again.

did nobody else heard about this prog, this might be interesting for everyone who has problems with vitual dub!

cya
komaklar

http://www.iulab.com
:p

Milos
8th February 2002, 17:00
I agree with you, iuVCR is by far the best capturing prog I've used so far, with my Asus V8200 deluxe.

CPU usage is so low, I can even crop video in real-time.

This comes (I think) from a very good WDM interface; which is obviously better than vfw.

All you need is a good WDM driver for your video card ...

phrentec
9th February 2002, 02:13
iuVCR is good but for my slow p3 i get too many dropped frames. I like the way the program steals audio resources from other programs. The only thing about it is that i cant get the audio and video to be in synch no matter how many different options i mess around with. Right now for my computer i prefer avi_io_trial for video capture with DivX4.12 as it has given me almost perfect captures, it also comes with a scheduler.

Arepiv
13th February 2002, 16:47
I am using iuVCR as well but I am quite confused with the frame rate I get. It's programmed for 25 fps but the result is an average of 24.7 fps. What confuses me is that there are 0 frame drops ! How can this be ?

Any idea on this ?

Arepiv

komaklar
14th February 2002, 18:38
@ phrentec
i have the same prob when leaving the audio-stream in original pcm! encoding to mp3 solves the sync problems... (dont ask me why)

henriQ
15th February 2002, 14:55
Yes. FLYCAP it is. And lighter on demands over
your system. And: it is Freeware.

cjaar
12th December 2002, 08:11
@ Milos

did the corp filter come with iuvcr??? or u installed it saperately... can i know where can i get the same

TA
cj

tuco
12th December 2002, 12:50
I still prefer vdub with a/v sync mod with both vfw and wdm drivers (you need the wrapper for wdm.) iuvcr was too buggy on my system and there are better programs out there that can capture just as well or better for free. Virtualvcr is another good one with wdm drivers.

DaveQB
14th January 2003, 06:41
VirtulVCR performs slightly better here then iuVCR

i love iuVCR but frames are like 24.72 etc
but Virtual VCR gets it up to 24.99xxxx

but still with both proggies i get the video racing ahead of the aduio to wheres its over a second ahead after bout 45 mins

:(

Video: mjpeg @ 19
Audio: PCM @ 44100hz, 16, stereo

i'll try komaklar idea to compress the Audio, see what happens

(if it works, that sux ya cant cap in uncompressed)

ohliuv
14th January 2003, 08:08
VirtualDub Sync works best for me. My system is PIII/1GHz, NVIDIA graphic, TerraTVValue, capture in half PAL to DivX5.02

DaveQB
14th January 2003, 08:10
yeah i never had a sync problem with that

problem now is that i have a CX23881 based card and want to cap @ larger then 320x240 res :(

i found a solution for everyone

http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=425910#425910


anyone know what VD does different to other cap programs to keep sync so well ???

Gazorgan
14th January 2003, 18:51
I've never had sync problems with IUVCR. I usually cap in MJPEG at 90% or 95%(Morgan MJPEG is a fine product, worth the $$$), and PCM audio. 1 hour cap and it's synced at the end, zero dropped frames at 640x480. Athlon 2000 and a 100 GB drive with 8 MB cache helps.

I don't like it's scheduler, it's not friendly to setting up weekly timed recordings. It does tend to drop frames the first 10 seconds on timed recording, but so what, I always start 1 minute early. It doesn't like to pause and resume either. PowerVCR sucks because it's MPEG only, but it's really nice about timed captures.

DaveQB
14th January 2003, 19:34
hmmm changing the frame rate through VD doesnt always work :(

i capped a file from my Camcorder (8mm tapes) and ran it through (intially saying Video was @ 25.000 and Audio @ 24.826) but even after syncing them the Video was still a bit ahead after half way through.

so tried setting the frame rate to 24.800 and that was too much compensation,
so trying now @ 24.820

but why this is happening i have no idea,
yet to try Audio compression
i never had this trouble before when using a BT878 and VD and capping @ 352x288

this sux!

one think though, now using Virtual VCR, i can cap and do many other things with a single frame drop

hahhaha, but now i need frames to be droped :D
(to keep sync)

NeVeRLiFt
14th January 2003, 21:16
I like iuVCR and use it alot, but I also use AVI_IO and recommend people to try it out to.
;)

DaveQB
14th January 2003, 22:11
hmm i have tried AVI_IO but it either crashes on me @ low Res and hi res it wont capture :confused:

i am very happy with Virtual VCR anyway :)

fasttimes
14th January 2003, 23:06
The best capture apps are VirtualVCR (WDM) or VirtualDub Mod (VfW), with the universal BTWinCap drivers. These are the only capture apps that maintain AV sync by resampeling the audio, not duping/dropping frames (yuck!) And the BTWinCap universal drivers are much more compatible than the iulabs universal drivers.

DaveQB
14th January 2003, 23:10
Originally posted by fasttimes
The best capture apps are VirtualVCR (WDM) or VirtualDub Mod (VfW), with the universal BTWinCap drivers. These are the only capture apps that maintain AV sync by resampeling the audio, not duping/dropping frames (yuck!) And the BTWinCap universal drivers are much more compatible than the iulabs universal drivers.

cool,
i still got sync problems with Virtual VCR :(

but i used a copy i had on my HDD (ver2.3 build 2301 or something )

so downloaded the lastest and will try that
i notice alot of sync fixes in th change log ;)

fasttimes
14th January 2003, 23:23
Originally posted by DaveQB
cool,
i still got sync problems with Virtual VCR :(
but i used a copy i had on my HDD (ver2.3 build 2301 or something )
I don't know what to tell you poor guys. Some rare people, continue to have the sync problems. My fisrt instinct would be that they have VVCR configured incorrectly. But, I'm sure this is *not* the case, for many having problems.

DaveQB
14th January 2003, 23:32
Originally posted by fasttimes
I don't know what to tell you poor guys. Some rare people, continue to have the sync problems. My fisrt instinct would be that they have VVCR configured incorrectly. But, I'm sure this is *not* the case, for many having problems.

you dont have sync problems ???

can you post yuor exact settings here for us ??

so we can compare
and maybe a cable configuration too

much appreciated
:D

fasttimes
15th January 2003, 00:13
Originally posted by DaveQB
you dont have sync problems ???

Not a one :D

I just upgraded to the latest version. Here are my settings:

Settings - AV Sync Tab - Check *only* "Resample Audio" and select "Resample Audio Dynamically".

DaveQB
15th January 2003, 00:17
thanx,
i'll try it

DaveQB
15th January 2003, 00:30
cool
a 9 min capture with your settings and its the best its been

VD says audio is @ 24.996 while Vid still @ 25.000

i'll keep trying .....

NeVeRLiFt
15th January 2003, 01:28
Originally posted by fasttimes
The best capture apps are VirtualVCR (WDM) or VirtualDub Mod (VfW), with the universal BTWinCap drivers. These are the only capture apps that maintain AV sync by resampeling the audio, not duping/dropping frames (yuck!) And the BTWinCap universal drivers are much more compatible than the iulabs universal drivers.

I have never had audio sync with AVI_IO ;) and it lets you choose how to add a key frame if it detects a frame drop.

Still with the right settings iuVCr works well for me.

Besides these I use MMC7.7 (soon MMC8.1)

fasttimes
15th January 2003, 01:57
Originally posted by DaveQB
cool
a 9 min capture with your settings and its the best its been
VD says audio is @ 24.996 while Vid still @ 25.000
i'll keep trying .....

Try a longer capture, like an hour or even two. The resampling does not really swing into action for a little bit.

Also, don't be fooled by the VDub stats. IIRK, if the audio is even one sample shorter than the video, it will show 24.999FPS, but it could really be 25.000FPS minus one audio sample in the entire AVI length! One way to really know, it to rip the audio to a WAV file, then load it into a WAV editor to check the length.

^^-+I4004+-^^
15th January 2003, 02:19
avi_io is pain in the but with silly management of free disk space.....
that's big -
only + i can think about is "pause" button if i wan't to capture many smaller clips into one avi.......

VDSync is still god on vfw platform.......(yeap,win98 captures for me....wdm gets async....i think this is some internal wdm problem,as i can't attribute it to hardware or drivers.......)

[fasttimes,some rough days for denoising today?huhm.....tough!
hehe
there are some new avs denoisers though.......
i have seen your screenshots,but i have work on sync-ing some audio to some video for "Midnight Cowboy" movie.(what a MASTERPIECE.... nothing is too hard job for that movie!)..so i don't have time
yet.....we'll see after that "project" finishes.........]

fasttimes
15th January 2003, 02:39
Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^
avi_io is pain in the but with silly management of free disk space.....
that's big -
only + i can think about is "pause" button if i wan't to capture many smaller clips into one avi.......

VDSync is still god on vfw platform.......(yeap,win98 captures for me....wdm gets async....i think this is some internal wdm problem,as i can't attribute it to hardware or drivers.......)
Don't feel too bad. ;) I'm still having damn frame drop problems in WinXP/WinME, that I have not been able to track down for months. They seem to be on a very regular schedual (4-5, exactly every hour.) I'm getting ready to chuck my whole PC and start over. :angry: So, we are all having problem, of one kind, or the other. :(

so i don't have time
yet.....we'll see after that "project" finishes.........]OK! :) Looking forward to your input. Actually, I'm looking for *any* input from all of you! ;)

DaveQB
15th January 2003, 03:05
Originally posted by fasttimes
Try a longer capture, like an hour or even two. The resampling does not really swing into action for a little bit.

Also, don't be fooled by the VDub stats. IIRK, if the audio is even one sample shorter than the video, it will show 24.999FPS, but it could really be 25.000FPS minus one audio sample in the entire AVI length! One way to really know, it to rip the audio to a WAV file, then load it into a WAV editor to check the length.


unfortunately a longer cap really got out of sync :(

there doesnt seem to be a solution for me to capture sync, have to run it through VD a few times changing Frame Rates and even then the "Change so Audio and Video durations match (fps)" doesnt work exactly now, i have to manual pick a frame rate and then alter that according to the out comes, can take a 3-4 goes if i dont pick it well :(

theres one last thing i havent tried that someone suggested and that is capturing Audio in mp3

off to try that now .......

perhaps a new driver release for my card might solve this in the future

oh and also, this might be interesting.
i captured in VD @ 352x288
and the VT% was counting by -3ms for every second, or there abouts.

it ended up @ around -200ms in one minute

this is not good, huh ?? :D

oh and one more thing, theres no problem changing the frame rate after the encoding and filter stage ??
a smaller file wil be faster to copy back and forth between HDD's

thanx guys!

cjv
15th January 2003, 04:05
DaveQB:

I know your cap card is CX2388x based, but which one is it?
What sound card do you have?
Do you cap sound direct to line-in, or through passthrough of cap card?


cjv

DaveQB
15th January 2003, 04:22
Prolink PixelView PlayTV HD (http://www.prolink.com.tw/english/products/multimedia/playtv%20hd.htm)

have an EPoX 8RDA+ with the nForce2 chipset,
so i use the onboard APU (http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=apu)

uses less CPU usage then an Audigy, and the quality is almost as good (5.1 and all that)

i did a cap using the Line IN but it was out of sync so went back to plugging into the card (which then plugs in the AUX headers on the MoBo)

but now trying the Line IN with fasttimes recommended settings (unticked offset thingy option)

so far so good, that stats looks like its more in sync, up to 44 mins so will stop in a sec and see .....

Edit: typo

DaveQB
15th January 2003, 04:53
ok, we have success!! :D

the file was sync, even after 50 mins, although some parts at the end didnt seem quite exact, but i htink thats a case of looking at this for too long! :D

VD said Video and Audio was both 25.000 (thats a first) and i checked in Audio > Conversion and it had current as 44100hz
woohoo!

just tried to encode a little bit of a file i fixed the frame rate with to get it in sync, but couldnt encode the audio (its 43785hz)

not sure how it will go with a Co-Ax capture though.... bout to try that next

thanx to everyones input, we seem to have hit a winner. (dont wanna be too confident too early :))


Edit: typo

valnar
15th January 2003, 16:35
Let me second the recommendation for VirtualVCR over iuVCR. I was an AVI_IO user in my VfW/Win98 days so maintaining sync is very important to me. iuVCR does not do that well. With VirtualVCR, you want to check resample audio (NO Master stream options) and it will keep perfect sync and perfect video frame rate. This is important if you want to post process and compress it to any variation of MPEG.

As another person pointed out, iuVCR adjusts the video frame rate which causes it to fall too out of spec with the MPEG standard, and some encoders will refuse to work with the file.

And as always, use HuffyUV compression when possible, or MPJEG if you're PC can't handle it to get the best uncompressed (or least compressed) file to work with before encoding to MPEG or DivX.

Robert

DaveQB
15th January 2003, 21:48
yeah its stil not perfect here,

i find if i dont multi-task (ie browse the Web, check mail etc) then i have less sync problems, but even the files that are sync, VD reports a slight discrepency in frame rate of Audio and Video

capturing to DivX like i used to with my AverMediaTV card and to only a single disk set up cant be doen without sync problems, no matter if i multi-task or let it be.

well at least i can fix the files through VD's change Frame Rate

i found i have to minus .006 frames/second then what VD suggests will get them in sync and manually use that figure :rolleyes:

birdy
17th January 2003, 11:53
I always used Virtualdub and iuvcr for video capture and didn't know about virtualVCR. After reading this topic I downloaded it and gave it a try. I am really impressed! It's a really great software and the great thing is that it let me use my filters when capturing.

Capturing at 768x576 to XVID and deinterlacing on the fly I did a capture test file of exactly 2hours.
There was no audio sysnc problem at all and not even one droped frame. I guess I will be using this software from now!

Thanx to ones who sugested the use of it.

DaveQB
17th January 2003, 11:59
Originally posted by birdy
I always used Virtualdub and iuvcr for video capture and didn't know about virtualVCR. After reading this topic I downloaded it and gave it a try. I am really impressed! It's a really great software and the great thing is that it let me use my filters when capturing.

Capturing at 768x576 to XVID and deinterlacing on the fly I did a capture test file of exactly 2hours.
There was no audio sysnc problem at all and not even one droped frame. I guess I will be using this software from now!

Thanx to ones who sugested the use of it.


really ???

i just made this (http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=428830#428830) post as you made this one,

i have noticed playoing back Xvid uses alot less CPU usage, i will give it a try.

back on topic, i did a test tonight,
captured in mjpeg @ 12 and uncompressed audio,
16mins of pay TV

iuVCR got out of sync @ 13 mins (not much though, could probably be fixed in VD)

Virtual VCR never lost sync at all :D

valnar
17th January 2003, 12:19
There are only three capture programs that I know of that maintain sync. All based on Microsoft's SDK with no tweaking cause the sync problems because of PCI drift between A/V. It takes someone to think "outside the box" to figure out his/her own solution to make them stay in sync. With AVI_IO, the developer inserted blank frames when the audio drifted. With VirtualVCR, the developer adjusts the audio ever-so-slightly (no one can hear it) to stay with the video. I helped him beta test that aspect of it awhile ago.

Showshifter does it too, but I am unsure how that company maintains their sync. However, I remember a thread on the Showshifter forum where the developer mentioned it took a couple late nights with some 6-packs of Coke to figure it out! It would have to be one of the processes mentioned above - either adjust video or audio to stay with the other.
[All this is from memory. Please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.]

IuVCR and VirtualDub work for some people, but not all.

I've been hunting for good capture programs for eons that I think I've tried them all. AVI_IO for Win9x. VirtualVCR for Win2K/XP with WDM drivers. Nothing else is needed!

Robert

Karl Beem
17th January 2003, 16:55
Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^
avi_io is pain in the but with silly management of free disk space.....


Yeah, but Virtualdub understands the file io. Edit with Vdub and then spool it out to another file. Compress as necessary.

birdy
17th January 2003, 23:44
@DaveQB
Is your problem fixed capturing at 768X576 with no frame drop and sync problem?

DaveQB
18th January 2003, 02:59
i thought i had it, captured 2 test runs for 15 mins and worked, then captured a 1hr show over night and out of sync, :(
no dropped frames though

fasttimes
18th January 2003, 16:24
Originally posted by DaveQB
i thought i had it, captured 2 test runs for 15 mins and worked, then captured a 1hr show over night and out of sync, :(
no dropped frames though
Only one thing I can think of: could your video and audio be way off, beyond the limited range that VVCR will resample? VVCR won't correct real bad A/V synch, because it would risk making the audio resampling audible. I would try using another sould card, and I would also try using different sampling rates, and driver versions.

DaveQB
18th January 2003, 23:10
nah its not too bad,
just off that little bit that becomes annouying you know ?

a damn pain it is.

just recorded another 1 hour show last night, without Mum changing the channel on me, so i want to watch this one

i wil try to save it through VD fram rate change

DaveQB
18th January 2003, 23:22
well i cut off the first 3 mins, coz it always seems to take a few minutes to stabilize; the Delta value during the first few minutes is up and down.

then noticed the rest of it was out of sync a set vale not in a linear form; Audio was just a little in front of the video the whole way. VD said they were both @ 25.000 FPS

so delayed audio 100ms and its perfect.
its just a pain in the arse to have to spend 20mins to get it in sync and i was lucky to pick the delay value first guess.

i have got it capturing in huffyuv without sync issues, which is more important (for those important conversions) but would like it to be my VCR too for shows and movies.

ahh well!

birdy
19th January 2003, 14:03
Last 2 nights I have been exchanging e-mails with IUvcr's author and he finaly sent me a test version were few bugs fixed now. I think he will release that version soon if not already done.

@DaveQB,
I really can't understand why you get sync problems! maybe you should try with IUvcr using this settings and see if it gets fixed.

In option tab of IUvcr: enable audio stream offset and set the value to "0"
enable short audio samples.
Set your master stream to audio.

by the way, what audio and capture card do you have?

DaveQB
19th January 2003, 18:58
oh, i must add that back to my sig (seeingsn ot posting in DVD forum, i wont get in trouble for it)

nForce2 chipset here, so susing the SoundStorm onboard sound, lower CPU usage then an audigy, and the quality is very close to an audigy.

i have tried the line IN in my MoBo and also using the capture card (it plugs into the MoBo AUX port. i first thought the line IN offered better sync, but then found it was some other settings i changed and therefore theres no diff between the two (both stereo, both as good/bad with sync)

i'll try iuVCR again then with your settings

what bout VVCR with off audio stream offsets set to 0ms there ???

thanx Birdy

fasttimes
19th January 2003, 22:01
Originally posted by DaveQB
what bout VVCR with off audio stream offsets set to 0ms there ???If your sync seems to be offset be the same amount, throughout the movie, that would correct the problem.

NeVeRLiFt
20th January 2003, 00:51
Originally posted by birdy
Last 2 nights I have been exchanging e-mails with IUvcr's author and he finaly sent me a test version were few bugs fixed now. I think he will release that version soon if not already done.

@DaveQB,
I really can't understand why you get sync problems! maybe you should try with IUvcr using this settings and see if it gets fixed.

In option tab of IUvcr: enable audio stream offset and set the value to "0"
enable short audio samples.
Set your master stream to audio.

by the way, what audio and capture card do you have?

enable short audio samples.

Whats this, and what does it do?

Edit:
:D :p whos your daddy? and what does he do? :p :D

DaveQB
20th January 2003, 03:23
ok, checked out Xvid more thoroughly and found i had a version from May 2002

installed the latest (Dec 24th 2002)
and so far seems alot better (a heap more options too, that i dont know bout :D)

only ran a few 1min tests but seems good also playback uses alot less CPU usage, although jumping ahead in the video is a bit of a bother as it doesnt catch up and i got to jump around a bit to get a picture.

i hope this is my solution,

thanx :)

cjaar
21st January 2003, 07:30
@all...

I hv pixelview play tv pro card, the s/w bundled with this works fine(only TV view and cap in avi formate). I isnatlled iuvcr for capturing, but i hv some problem in tuning some channels....
Like if i fine tune a channel to get less video and audio distortion,
i am unable to do...in the sence, if video is ok, sound is noisy and vis-ever-sa...
Has any noticed this or hving the problem with other cards also.
I did try the latest 5.3.5 generic wdm drivers but my tv viewing isnt possible with generic drvs.
tried Dscaler, still the sme problem, video/audio distortion in some channels.

any solutions/suggestions..

Thanks
cj

DaveQB
21st January 2003, 08:11
if its happening in both software, perhaps its hardware or reception,

try your card in a mates PC and/or a mates in yours

that might help explain where the problem lies

cjaar
21st January 2003, 08:18
tried that, my friend hs same card, still i see the same noise problem in some channels as i explained in my previous post..

Thanks
cj

DaveQB
21st January 2003, 08:20
and he has them ?? doesnt have them ???
with his card ? your card ??

cjaar
22nd January 2003, 02:24
my mate has same pixelview play tv pro and my card is also same. He aslo get the same noise in some channels.

thanks
cj

begu
22nd January 2003, 07:14
Hmm.. I'm using philips SA1708E chip @ gef4 card.
I'm using onboard sound also. Please people here, (who have no sync problems) post Your audio specs -> BOTH hardware and software.
I mean, that it seems very important and is usually no thought at all.
Well You could post what soundcard (drivers) or what onboard chip using.

ALSO the audio compression methods.
- PCM / mp3 (mp3 codec, what version etc.)
- what sampling rate

This is because I have slight sync problems too. I'm going to try virtual vcr today. I have tried virtualdub, showshifter, iuvcr, intervideo windvr. Virtualdub seems to be the best, but it drops a frame in here and there. Very strange thing is, that if I use mp3 (fraunhofer prof.) with 48000kHz and 160 kbps bitrate I get only few dropped frames. And the VT adjust seems to get positive values.

If I use mp3 with 44100kHz and 224 kbps VT adjust gets negative values!? And the speed of 'vt adjust' increases if I use different kbps setting than mentioned!! very strange indeed. If I use PCM 44100 or 48000 kHz the VT adjust seems to grow always positive. But the best result is achieved with mp3 48kHz with 160 kbps.

I wonder if this is due the onboard audio chip. It must use mobo clock or something to keep sample rate. I have not tried soundcard, I had live installed, but get rid of it after this not so resourcehog onboard chip. BUT maybe the live has crystal in it (not sure) to get sample clock exact.

But as I said I must try that virtual vcr, if it has sample clock sligh adjust to get av-sync. I must ask, how the adjusted sampleclok behaves, when converting in Vdub?? Do You use virtual vcr with PCM or mp3?

And someone said, that lame codec is better to keep in sync than fraunhofer. (he was using showshifter) I tested showshifter and got av-sync quite correctly, but I was unable to hear sound after FF/RWD. I loaded that showshifter file in Vdub, and I got sound if I started to play from beginning. But after setting the bar to middle and tried to play it - no sound. So the showshifter does something to soundtrack.

By the way what is the settings in iuvcr, that read 'sync video (or audio) to system clock' ?

Well that's all so far, this is my first post in here :)

DaveQB
22nd January 2003, 10:11
yeah capturing in a compressed audio achieves the worse results here

i can keep sync if i capture in a lossless Video codec and uncompressed audio, in any resolution size.

i can keep sync in compressed Video (DivX, Xvid) and uncompressed audio up to res 384x288
then @ the next res that doesnt end up with Banding (768x576) i have a little trouble with compressed capturing there, seems to keep sync sometimes and not others,

luck of the draw

compressed audio in 768x576 res results in terrible sync,
might try a lower res :)

begu,
what res do you use and what video codec ??

birdy
22nd January 2003, 11:38
I can not understand why anyone would want to compress the sound when capturing! Capturing directly to xvid or divx already requiers lot of cpu and I would let my system foucus on the video and do the best possible job. Once the file is done you can always compress the audio to mp3 or what ever format you want in virtual dub and it takes about 15 mins to compress a 2 hours movies with lame for me!

begu
22nd January 2003, 12:24
DaveQB:

I have just recently bought the gf4 myvivo card, so i'm testing.
I think that the chip (philips sa7108e)works quite well, I can
even compress full 720x576 resolution in virtualdub. I use latest Xvid codec from nic, which can handle interlaced encoding. I have also tested divx502 and Huffyuv (2.1.1) and picview mjpeg.

I have also sigma's x-card (yes I know it's software is buggy, still good HW). I tested capturing in vdub with xvid (using DX50 fourcc for xcard) and 7000 kbps in interlaced mode. When viewed with x-card at my TV it's almost like live.. 8). My primary point is watching from TV not monitor, so that's why I'm not converting to progressive when using best quality.

With lower quality I captured with 384x288 resolution and used Joveplayer to view that with x-card. Joveplayer adds capability to use software decoders (I use ffdshow) and then re-encode it in the fly to x-card's hardware decoder. So I resize the 384x288 to 720x576 and do some processing (denoise and postprocessing) and have quite good quality with low bitrate. That's why I use compressed video and audio together -- I get ready files directly from vdub, so no need to process anything. But ofcourse for quality I must use huffyuv and PCM and then convert them further.

I manage to compress audio too using fraunhofer or lame mp3 codec. I get 75-85 % cpu usage when compressing video and audio using vdub. And I have tested that lowering cpu usage will not affect to av-sync,
or should I say frame drops. That is because yesterday I was thinkin that I should have zero frame drop to maintain av-sync. But today I figured out in here that v-dub handles it by dropping or inserting frames.

But I have not tested recording over 15 minutes, so I must try longer to see how this is working. The thing why I compress audio is as I said before - somehow the framedrop is lesser with compressed audio. That thing leads directly to problems coming from onboard sound, I believe.

I just tried virtual vcr with PCM 44.1 kHz and dynamic samplerete adjust (or whatever). The xcard didn't manage to play it, but WMP and bsplayer did. So I think that with virtual dub I can compress the audio to mp3. How well will the mp3 codec work with this 'adjusted' wav ? Someone said there is no problems.

I will post my system specs also, I have an OC'd system that I've been saving for a while and now up 'n' running :)
- P4 NW 2.4 133 FSB, oc'd to 2.8 gig
- Abit bd7-ii mobo (i845E) with realtek onboard sound (I believe)
- Corsair mem 512MB with 4:3 ratio in 155 FSB making 413ddr
- Leadtek A250 le 128mb gf4 ti4200 myvivo (philips sa7108e)
- win xp pro
- seagate barracuda ata iv 7200 40gig hd

I'm using separate partition for capture and I think that the hd just is able to capture huffyuv. But maybe someone can suggest better hd. I'm not going for scsi or raid at this point, but extra hd fits well :) (thought western digital with 8M cache).

Back to the topic.

DaveQB: what audio device do you have?

By the way, I tried also the iuvcr's audio/video synced to system clock. It seemed to work quite well. But something was wrong with interlaced capturing. Must try it with huffyuv/mjpeg.

To summ up so far: the best working program is original latest virtualdub (p4 optimized version) and maybe the virtualvcr too. Also the showshifter worked in sync, but it couldn't handle audio after FF/RWD. Also I got somewhat good results with intervideo windvr (mpeg1/2), but I didn't manage to get interlaced mpeg out of it in few tests.

So please bring Your audio hardware and 'software' settings in here to compare them. (as I said, it seems to be the quite important factor here, at least in my own tests)

My problem so far is 'how much frame drop is acceptable' ? I loose about 3-7 frames when encoded 10000 frames (pal 25fps), depending on the situation. How good is that? The 'VT adjust' always increases to about +200 ms during that >10000 frames capture.
-- sorry for 'not so good' english, I'm living in Finland --

DaveQB
22nd January 2003, 13:21
well just did a quick test and capturing @ 384x288 DivX/Xvid and MP3 w/ Virtual VCR (VVCR) only leads to 55% CPU usage, but terrible sync problems.

whats this xcard ??
sounds like Prolinks Xcapture (???)

Hwd in sig,
for audio i use the onboard APU SoundStorm (nVidia)
rates close to an Audigy in performance but with less CPU usage needed to play audio files etc

i think for your HDD setup you shouldnt be capturing to the same physical drive as yuor OS and pagefile,

a seperate drive would be best,
wouldnt be hard to get two 20gigs and a cheap RAID card (most cheap RAID cards use the Silicon image sil0680 chipset which stacks up very well against the cheaper Highpoint chipsets out there) and set up a RAID 0

the WD JB like you said is a nice solution too, performing close to a RAID 0 set-up

begu
22nd January 2003, 13:44
See again my last post (I did some edit in the beginning, about xcard with Joveplayer)

X-card is Sigmadesigns product, just like Hollywood+.
H+ is a mpeg1/2 hardware decoder and xcard is mpeg1/2/4 HW decoder.
NOTE : xcard doesn't support GMC or quarter pixel and not div3.
It supports divx4 and later and their own sigma-mpeg4 codec. The latest drivers also support xvid. But beware, there are many having some problems with the card. It 'steals' mpg1/2/4 viewing, for example from WMP or other software players. But the newest driver has option to use HW decoder only when using the player application for the card. So WMP, bsplayer, zoomplayer etc work like normal.

There is Joveplayer in deveplopment for xcard. It uses re-encoding system in the fly to use cards hw-decoder. So with Joveplayer it is possible to view any dvix/xvid file with xcard, because decoding is done in software and after that the videostream is re-encoded (in software) and then sent to xcard hw-decoder. And I use ffdshow to view divx with it and it accepts directvobsub too. But fast CPU is needed if viewing avi files with big resolution. But the developer team is constructing special encoder, that reduces cpu demand and improves re-encoding quality.

I must say that the quality of the video from xcard is suberb compared to my gf4 philips output ! But the drivers and sigmas own software isn't the best on earth. But it works as it is supposed to, in most cases. Link:
http://www.sigmadesigns.com/
check the forum too on that site. There is some info about bugs etc.
And I must point out that if You can live with few frames dropped here and there, You can live with xcard too ;)
-- so too much offtopic -- maybe I should create one for xcard.

So back in topic,
DaveQB, maybe that async problem lies just in that onboard sound.
I have ability to test the capturing with sb live in the weekend, and I'll report then. I think that the onboard audio can sound good, but is it 'precise' when speaking of sampling and timing. I think that most soundcards have their own oscillator to get proper samplerate. I haven't seen any near the onboard audio, so maybe that is problem. The onboard audio must use systemclock or something, I don't know. Try to capture with soundcard.

DaveQB
22nd January 2003, 14:01
yeah i got an old CMI sound card here,
might try it, but the sound quality will be significantly less :(

begu
22nd January 2003, 14:09
Does anyone know what is controlling the audiodevice's (onboard or soundcard) samplerate? I mean that how does it know what samplerate to use? Or is it so that it's AD-conversion operates in one default setting eg. 44.1 kHz? I think that there is samplerate converter in kernel level in windows. (I read that in some pc audio article)

So if AD-converter is operating in 44.1 kHz and I choose 48 kHz PCM, what happens? Does the wndows kernel convert it to 48 kHz ? (or if AD-converter is 48 kHz, I choose 44.1 kHz)

In virtual vcr there is samplerate setting and bit setting and mono/stereo. Then there are separate audio compression setting. In virtual dub there is no other setting than audio compression. So how vdub gets correct samplerate (I guess that it detects it from compression codec)

So much assumptions and questions ;) - I'll look somewhere.

edit: one other thing came to my mind.
Maybe there is possibility that running fixed pci/agp with my mobo causes this av-sync drifting and so dropping frames in vdub. 'Fixed' means that cpu/mem-bus speed compared to agp/pci-bus speed is not locked together. Like I described in earlier post, I have FSB at 155 MHz and pci is locked to 33 MHz. So these buses are async-connected (there is no divider, eg. the pci/agp is always default and not depending on FSB).

I must try to change settings so that I use divider to get pci/agp speed. (eg. FSB = 133, divider = 4 --> pci = 33 and is in sync with fsb)

DaveQB
23rd January 2003, 07:31
VD has all the audio settings that VVCR has
both have sampleRate, bit rate and Stereo/Mono settings,

begu
23rd January 2003, 07:42
DaveQB check my earlier post 'edit:' (about fsb/pci-speeds).

Where in v-dub there is setting to choose samplerate and used bits (8/16). I see only "compression" and "levelmeter" under "audio"-menu.
Of course there is different samplerates shown, when choosing in "compression"-menu (PCM/mp3 etc.). But I mean, that in VVCR there is different settings for "compression" in audio settings. (I can choose not to use compression, but still can determine 'samplerate', 'bits' or 'mono/stereo' setting) If I choose eg. 44.1 kHz and 16 bits and stereo, and then look compression settings, there is no 48kHz available (unless I choose 'show all').

But it seems that v-dub detects proper samplerate to use from the "compression" settings.

DaveQB
23rd January 2003, 08:14
which post is that ???

PCM is uncompressed,
so while in VD you are selecting PCM's settings,
thats the same as in VVCR selecting the audio settings with the audio compression box not ticked

try the audio settings @ say 48khz and the compressions settings @ say 44.1khz
and then capture

see the error ya get ?? ;)

begu
23rd January 2003, 08:20
Well ok I got that v-dub samplerate-thing.

I meant You to see previous post, where is "edit: one other thing came to my mind... " and so on. I try to lock my fsb to pci today, because now i have it in 'async' mode, where the pci is locked to default 33MHz and fsb is 155MHz.

DaveQB
23rd January 2003, 08:27
what board are you using ???

there are no dividers on the nForce2

the PCI, AGP and FSB are all independant and what one does, does no effect the other

you didnt think they have like 44 dividers to have the AGP settings 66-100 in 1 mhz increments ?? ;)

begu
23rd January 2003, 09:20
More about onboard sound (abit bd7-ii):
Chip is realtek ALC650. Seems good in specs,and sounds good too.
But maybe it is still causing the sync prob.
DAveQB: did You try with separate soundcard?

Something to think about the chip.
http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/products1-2.aspx?modelid=30
A clip from their website:

"Finally, internal PLL circuits generate required timing signals, eliminating the need for external clocking devices."

So to me this sounds bad, but maye it works, hmmm..?

EDIT:
-- I found out that FSB / PCI settings doesn't affect anyhow to the audio-samplerate drifting problem. So I will test with soundcard (sb live 5.1) to see if it has better PLL's than Realtek's onboard chip.

I also found out that virtualdub_sync (in resample-mode) works better for me than VVCR (in resample-mode). When used VVCR the audio did'nt drift, but was off-sync at the start. So it made constat off-sync to avi. It played correctly in v-dub though, but not in bsplayer / WMP. But when used v-dub_sync, I had perfect audio in bsplayer / WMP / v-dub. And also good result when converted the 'resampled' PCM audio to CBR mp3 (fraunhofer) 160kbps. But that was only 45 min recording. Must try over 2 hours to see how v-dub_sync performs.

So I may be lucky after all, only slight audio samplerate-drifting problem here. Must try soundcard to get it better.

--> Any suggestions for good soundcard with accurate sample-clock ?

fluss
24th January 2003, 15:10
May I recommend http://kickme.to/svcdcorder
This is a program to handle timed recordings
(including change of TV cannels) with
Virtual VCR and huffyuv.

Then a post processing step to edit and convert
huffyuv files to SVCD.

I think it is a great application.

Hope This is of use to you.

-- Fluss

VILLA21
24th January 2003, 22:10
Originally posted by fluss
May I recommend http://kickme.to/svcdcorder
This is a program to handle timed recordings
(including change of TV cannels) with
Virtual VCR and huffyuv.

Then a post processing step to edit and convert
huffyuv files to SVCD.

I think it is a great application.

Hope This is of use to you.

-- Fluss

The TV application doesn"t work for me, i have Hauppauge"s WinTV and their latest WDM drivers.

acrespo
4th December 2003, 19:53
I have Pixelview PlayTV PVR with 2.x drivers (15th October 2003).
I can't use tuner in VirtualVCR. The only mode available is NTSC_M and I am brazilian (PAL_M standard). This is not the only problem, when I change the channel a blue screen is showed. If the problem was only the standard mode I was showed the image in greyscale and it's not the case.
In iuVCR I can change the mode and all function properly, but VirtualVCR uses less resources then if anybody have a solution it's welcome.

midelic
4th December 2003, 21:09
If you want a time recorder(you can also shutdown,hibernate the computer after capture) for virtualvcr ,you can find it here:
www.zisoft.de/video
Enjoy