5.1 DTS Wav to FLAC

[trooper11]

Im trying to find out if i can convert a 6 channel DTS wav files (ripped from a dts audio cd) to 6 channel flac, preserving the channels and DTS.

I am using dbpoweramp for convertion duties and of course it can convert the wav files to flac, but all i get is 2 channel output, no mention of DTS either when i check mediainfo with the resulting file.

Is there another method to make this happen or is there some limitation that will prevent it? Thanks for the help.

[tebasuna51]

DTS is a lossy compresion and FLAC is lossless.
For what you need this conversion?
You get a big file and lose the posibility of send by SPDIF the stream to a receiver for play, without any benefit.
Of course you preserve the 6 channel, but DTS?. If you change the compresion to FLAC the DTS original info don't exist.

[nifedipin]

Hi,
In your case flac is intended to be JUST an anvelope.
So...doesn't matter flac is losless or not[I saw your post on dbpoweramp's site too].
You just need to 'convert' wavdts files to flac[no channel maping].
You should use audiomuxer[use tools] or even dbpoweramp.
The trick is HOW to play these flacs to get your 5.1 surround sound again.Basicly you need to "strip" the flac get the wavdts and decode them....on the fly.
My advise is to use foobar 2000 with flac and dts plugins.
Another option would be to instal madflac and ffdshow to play these special flacs on your system...
Enjoy!!
M

[Midzuki]

Hi,
In your case flac is intended to be JUST an anvelope.
So...doesn't matter flac is losless or not[I saw your post on dbpoweramp's site too].
You just need to 'convert' wavdts files to flac[no channel maping].
You should use audiomuxer[use tools] or even dbpoweramp.
The trick is HOW to play these flacs to get your 5.1 surround sound again.Basicly you need to "strip" the flac get the wavdts and decode them....on the fly.
My advise is to use foobar 2000 with flac and dts plugins.
Another option would be to instal madflac and ffdshow to play these special flacs on your system...
Enjoy!!
M

Ah, I see. Or at least I think so. :)

Notwithstanding, I don't see the point of compressing a high-bitrate, 5.1, DTSWAV with Flac, and then setting ffdshow to "Detect DTS in WAV". It seems improbable FLAC can go "much below" 1234kpbs (the original, actual, DTS bitrate) in a case like this.

[GodofaGap]

I think the OP is unaware of the difference between WAV and PCM.

[trooper11]

well my main reason for the conversion is becuase of tagging issues with wav files.

im using these with my media center and i was looking for a format that could retain the quality while also allowing for tag info so that they will show up properly in media center or windows media player.

if there is a way to apply tag info to the wav files themselves, then great, otherwise, it sounds like my choices are limited.

as you noticed, this is my first time ripping dts cds, so im not up on all the ins and outs yet, so i appreciate the info.

[trooper11]

also, considering that im wanting to play these back in media center with my other music, is there another format more suitable going from the wav files? i dont have to use flac, i just wanted to keep it as original as possible while being able to tag and play them back.

[Midzuki]

If "tagging" is all that matters, you could use eac3to for both removing the .WAV-padding and wrapping the DTS stream in a .MKA file.

P.S.: Or, you might also, and simply, use flac.exe itself for compressing the dts-.WAVs (which, of course, would require ffdshow, or AC3Filter, for a proper playback).

[TinTime]

...all i get is 2 channel output, no mention of DTS either when i check mediainfo with the resulting file.

This is to be expected - it's stored to look like two channel PCM to make it CD compatible, so that's why the resultant FLAC is two channels. Mediainfo wouldn't know it was DTS without decoding it which, presumably, it doesn't do.

I don't know how you're planning to play this FLAC file but the DTS info is all still there.

[trooper11]

This is to be expected - it's stored to look like two channel PCM to make it CD compatible, so that's why the resultant FLAC is two channels. Mediainfo wouldn't know it was DTS without decoding it which, presumably, it doesn't do.

I don't know how you're planning to play this FLAC file but the DTS info is all still there.

oh really? well then thats great news. i do wish mediinfo would give me some indication though lol.

so what your saying is that because of the limitation of mediainfo not decoding the flac file, all its going to see is 2 channel when in fact the file does contain the DTS 6 channel info.

if thats it, then it will come down to whatever i use to decode the flac to allow the dts to pass through.

this is all in order to play these dts tracks on my htpc. I will be going from the pc to my receiver via hdmi. Right now, its not hooked up to the receiver while i set everything up.

I am going to be using media center which means windows media player and Im using the shark007 codec pack with some modifications, using ffdshow.

how does ffdshow need to be set in order for those flac files to play back properly (i.e. decoding the dts info) over hdmi to my reciever within media center?

[Midzuki]

Start Menu --> Programs --> ffdshow -->

--> Audio decoder configuration ;

enable DTS decoding, ++

++ tick "Check for DTS in WAV".

Also, set "Uncompressed" to "All supported".

P.S.: DTS-in-FLAC really deserves to be called "Monster Audio". :p

[trooper11]

Ok great, I had those set, so i should be good to go.

and just to be clear, is it normal that while i have this hooked up to stereo speakers via the line out (analog), the wav file and the flac file i make will playback as static in wmp? then when i plug this into my reciever via hdmi, it will play properly, passing the audio?

[GodofaGap]

You still don't understand the difference between PCM and WAV. What you want is completely nonsensical and not possible.

The FLAC encoder encodes PCM data, not WAV. WAV is just a wrapper for various audio formats. If you feed FLAC anything else by pretending that it is PCM data, all you get on the output side is garbage, because there is no way to detect anymore that it was DTS-in-WAV before you compressed it. And then, you get static.

If you want to have tags you will have to remux the audio in a container that does support tagging and that your media player also supports, or you have to recompress the data in the proper way.

[Midzuki]

You still don't understand the difference between PCM and WAV. What you want is completely nonsensical and not possible.

The FLAC encoder encodes PCM data, not WAV. WAV is just a wrapper for various audio formats. If you feed FLAC anything else by pretending that it is PCM data, all you get on the output side is garbage, because there is no way to detect anymore that it was DTS-in-WAV before you compressed it. And then, you get static.

If you want to have tags you will have to remux the audio in a container that does support tagging and that your media player also supports, or you have to recompress the data in the proper way.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever FLACked a SPDIF-wrapped DTS file? And have you ever tried to play it with the help from AC3Filter or ffdshow?

I agree, the idea and the procedure are weird,
but are N0T impossible. :)

[GodofaGap]

Just out of curiosity, have you ever FLACked a SPDIF-wrapped DTS file? And have you ever tried to play it with the help from AC3Filter or ffdshow?
No I haven't tried, but I'd be surprised if it works. And the fact that he's already getting static in WMP only confirms my suspicion.

I also don't think that creating what are essentially broken files shouldn't be encouraged when other possibilities that can do what he wants perhaps even easier are available too. His problem here is not getting DTS in FLAC to play, but getting proper tagging in his media player.

[Midzuki]

I can only say that I have tried it, and I confirm that it works. :) As I said, either AC3Filter or ffdshow are required for the trick to work, and WMP may simply refuse to call ffdshow or AC3Filter, especially if the OP is using Windows 7.

[TinTime]

If he can pass the data unmolested from his PC to amp then the AV amp should be able to decode it.

I've done this in the past with DTS FLACs and foobar over S/PDIF. Foobar plays them like any other FLAC from a CD source and the amp takes care of the rest.

[trooper11]

No I haven't tried, but I'd be surprised if it works. And the fact that he's already getting static in WMP only confirms my suspicion.

I also don't think that creating what are essentially broken files shouldn't be encouraged when other possibilities that can do what he wants perhaps even easier are available too. His problem here is not getting DTS in FLAC to play, but getting proper tagging in his media player.


ok im all ears, if that idea is completely out of the realm of logic, then what is my best course of action?

my goal here is to get high quality playback through media center/wmp and be able to tag that media so that i can easily view it in media center/wmp

i dont care what format or method, im just looking for the path that will give me those results.

if media center/wmp simply cant play those back, then i guess ill need to use something like Foobar, but if they can, im willing to jump through whatever hoops are neccesary. I dont have alot of these dts cds, but the few i have would sound great if i could make this work. I am running windows 7 by the way.

[TinTime]

my goal here is to get high quality playback through media center/wmp and be able to tag that media so that i can easily view it in media center/wmp

WMA Lossless might make the most sense then - I'm assuming WMP doesn't have built in support for FLAC / Matroska / etc. tags.

If you want your amp to decode the DTS then you'll have to look at Reclock and its WASAPI output on Windows 7. The "PCM" will have to be passed out of your PC completely unaltered. No re-sampling, no volume change, no nothing.

Alternatively follow Midzuki's suggestion of using ffdshow or AC3Filter to decode on the PC.

Alternatively (2) follow GodofaGap's suggestion and find a container that supports DTS and also tags that WMP can read.

[trooper11]

WMP does support FLAC tags thanks to a little plugin that was developed. That was the reason i thought about using FLAC first.

I will look into WMA lossless as well, they are all lossless wrappers so i dont care if its flac or wma as long as its something that will support what im wanting to do.

since i already have ffdshow installed for video issues, then i guess ill try using it do decode first.

is there any difference in ac3filter and ffdshow when it comes to the decode?

[tebasuna51]

...
my goal here is to get high quality playback through media center/wmp and be able to tag that media so that i can easily view it in media center/wmp
I can't help you with that because I don't use WMP.

But, to obtain the best quality you need use one of this two methods:
- Send the original DTS stream by SPDIF/HDMI to the receiver.
- Send the decoded DTS by HDMI like PCM 5.1. To decode DTS you need use a certified decoder (like ArcSoft, Sonic, ...).

If you use other decoder or if you recode the audio to AC3 you can lose some quality.

BTW,
...
since i already have ffdshow installed for video issues, then i guess ill try using it do decode first.

is there any difference in ac3filter and ffdshow when it comes to the decode?
Ac3Filter (at least with last version 1.63b) have a bug decoding DTS: the output is +3dB high volume and can produce distorted peaks.
A workaroud is set the Master volume to -3dB (when decode DTS only).

Then I recommend use ffdshow for that.

[trooper11]

well i stumbled onto something yesterday that seems to work for my needs.

i found a small app called wav2dts. i simply drag my wav file over to it and it outputs a file with the .dts extension, im guessing its just removing the wav wrapper.

either way, the amazing thing is that wmp plays this .dts file just fine and it will even let me apply tag info/album covers.

so for now, ill just stick with this method.

[sebus]

DTS is a lossy compresion and FLAC is lossless.
For what you need this conversion?
You get a big file and lose the posibility of send by SPDIF the stream to a receiver for play, without any benefit.
Of course you preserve the 6 channel, but DTS?. If you change the compresion to FLAC the DTS original info don't exist.

That might have been then (in 2010) & even then it was not true! (https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?22125-5-1-DTS-Wav-to-FLAC&p=103934&viewfull=1#post103934), but now (in 2016) one can play DTS (.dtswav extracted from DTS CD) compressed to .flac, with standalone hardware (Wetek) with Openelec/Kodi via HDMI to appropriate receiver (in my case Onkyo TX-NR609)

.flac is just this little bit smaller than .wav

[SeeMoreDigital]

Jeez sebus... the las post in this topic was over six years ago!

[sebus]

Just pointing the error that one comes across using web search...

[tebasuna51]

That might have been then (in 2010) & even then it was not true! (https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?22125-5-1-DTS-Wav-to-FLAC&p=103934&viewfull=1#post103934), but now (in 2016) one can play DTS (.dtswav extracted from DTS CD) compressed to .flac, with standalone hardware (Wetek) with Openelec/Kodi via HDMI to appropriate receiver (in my case Onkyo TX-NR609)

.flac is just this little bit smaller than .wav

I just make a test compresing a dtswav to flac (max compression):

09 On The Road To Find Out.wav 54.459.565 bytes
09 On The Road To Find Out.flac 48.662.849 bytes

But the standard dts extracted (*) from dtswav is:

09 On The Road To Find Out.dts 47.649.280 bytes

still smaller than flac and can be played without problems with any PC player or even with my old standalone player Xtreamer.

(*) The DTS format needed for dtswav uses only 14 of each 16 bits for valid info, then the size is 16/14 of standard DTS size.

In 2017 is still useless compress a dtswav to flac.

[sebus]

But EAC will do nicely in one go extraction to .wav or .flac, but sure I see no way to do the same to .dts
Hence for ease of use .wav & .flac are more friendly, with .flac being smaller (and playable just about anywhere "intelligent")

But you are right about the size, as you proved .dts is 1 Mb smaller than .flac

But I only answered to point that this was not true:

"...You get a big file and lose the posibility of send by SPDIF the stream to a receiver for play, without any benefit.
Of course you preserve the 6 channel, but DTS?. If you change the compresion to FLAC the DTS original info don't exist...."


Unless it was really bad wording on the night
sebus

[tebasuna51]

But I only answered to point that this was not true:

"...You get a big file and lose the posibility of send by SPDIF the stream to a receiver for play, without any benefit.
Of course you preserve the 6 channel, but DTS?. If you change the compresion to FLAC the DTS original info don't exist...."


Oh, yes, my fault.

In my first read I was thinking than trooper11 want decode the DTS to multichannel wav and recode to flac, not encode the dtswav.

[sebus]

Thanks, that clear it!