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DDogg
2nd February 2002, 17:13
Report to the group:

I was feeling a little crazy and wanted to play around with the new matrix support in 1.06 Build 3. I just wanted to see what the result would be if a full 2 hours was targeted for 1 800 cdr. The results were much better than I anticipated. More later on that.

Method used:
1>Used the latest tsunami patcher (0.2.1) to apply the "'Angel SVCD 1CD 2.35 avg800 max1500'" matrix to CCE 2.50SP
2> CCE was set up for 5 pass VBR, bilinear filter and Temporal Smoother 2,1, with I.Q.Priority 17, Anti-noise 6, Linear Q.S.=off, zigzag=on, progressive=on, Upper=on
3> Bitrate was set as average-800, max 1500 as the filter title suggested.
4> Audio was set for 96 Stereo with no downsampling.

Results: Quite good! I must say I was pleasantly surprised. My strictly subjective judgment using an older JVC 32 inch TV was the quality was equal or slightly better than a commercially rented VHS tape.

IMO, it was certainly better than a standard VCD by a good margin, but, as I said, this is just my perception and a very subjective one. For perspective, I would personally would rate a decent VCD encode about the quality of extended, long play VHS. Again, this encode was certainly equal to standard VHS if not a little better.

Note: Source was "Everafter" and was clean. Aspect was 4:3.

Bilinear filtering and Temporal smoother were used to increase the compressibility index as measured by GKnot. Index increased from .45 using SimpleResize to .62 using this combination.

Video was softer than original but not readily apparent when viewed on standard TV. No particular large blockiness or artifacts were observed. My 2 kids, 9 and 10, could not tell the difference between the standard SVCD encode and this one except to say "the standard was brighter".

I mention this because I would like to encode some movies for them for long trips in the van and would prefer one disk encodes for convenience. Their eyes are not trained, but they are keen. I wanted their input as part of a quick evaluation. The fact that they didn't moan, bitch and gripe told me a lot :).

They also made no comment on the audio. Frankly, I was very surprised with the audio quality given the extremely low bitrate of 96 Stereo. Great job DSPGURU!

All and all the result was very "watchable". I would have enjoyed the movie and not been too distracted by the quality at all. The fact that it was 4:3 and the quality was decent further surprised me.

Oh, to state the obvious, I am sure this would not look very good on HQ sets so PLEASE don't even .... :) This example is only given as part of our knowledgebase. I am not advocating people do this or use this for anything except an unusual situation where someone needs to tradeoff quality for compactness. This is just presented to point out extended encodes are possible, and can yield reasonably decent results, when needed.

Script:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\TEMP_T~4\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
TemporalSmoother(2,1)
BilinearResize(480,480)

DSPguru
2nd February 2002, 17:28
Originally posted by DDogg
Report to the group:

They also made no comment on the audio. Frankly, I was very surprised with the audio quality given the extremely low bitrate of 96 Stereo. Great job DSPGURU!
10x, my man !

I guess that build 3 ruleZ :D

kiro
2nd February 2002, 20:53
just want to say thanks for the help
finally i've got correct picture

EMonty
3rd February 2002, 10:19
Hi,

sorry for the stupid question, but i read the thread and i have all the software but how excacly do i load the matrice in cce?

thanxs

Clixo
3rd February 2002, 10:55
you just aply the patch / matrix to the executable ( use the path or copy the executable patcher to the same directory of cce )and dvd2svcd makes the rest !. also dont forget to change the bitrates for the picture and the sound.
i also have tried the same matrix as ddog with one single diference instead of usig ts i used telecined deintrelace and result was very good!!

EMonty
3rd February 2002, 11:00
that easy! ok i try it
thanxs

EMonty
3rd February 2002, 13:20
DDogg:
you say
3> Bitrate was set as average-800, max 1500 as the filter title suggested.

What Do you mean with average: min, both or max? (or: how to fill the bitrate tab options)

thanxs in advance:)

Clixo
3rd February 2002, 14:13
exactly as ddog said just edit those values in the bitratesection, dont forget the sound also!

EMonty
3rd February 2002, 14:58
There is not just average in the bitrate tab, there is min.average and maximum average, that's why i asked, mabey it has to be filled in in both or only one

thanks

DDogg
3rd February 2002, 15:34
max average would be 800 Max would be 1500. I think I left min at 300. Uncheck min average.

BTW, I think this would work better with 90 mins. 120 was just a bit of crazy to see what would happen. You could then use a little higher bitrate in max average.

Edit: All you need to change is the max box. Put 1500 in it. Just set the amount of CDs to 1 in the appropriate line for your time length. Let dvd2svcd figure out what to put in the max average box.

EMonty
4th February 2002, 19:52
DDogg:
I tried it as you said but found the encoded movie not that good even on my simple tv. (very blocky)

markrb
4th February 2002, 20:30
I am sure much would depend on the movie as well.
I think a dark drama would do better then a bright
action film. Plus the shorter the better.

Mark

Bubba
4th February 2002, 22:00
Hi,

Where can I find this "Tsunami patcher (0.2.1)"? I search the following site:

1. Doom9.org
2. The official DVD2SVCD site (i.e. http://dvd2svcd.doom9.net/)
3. The official TMPGEnc (i.e. Tsunami Mpeg Encoder)
4. Google

and could not find this patcher anywhere...

I would appreciate very much if anyone can point to where I download this. Very much interested to try this out.

Thanks & Have a nice day

P.S. I found a patch called "Cinema Craft Encoder Patcher 0.2.1" in a German site. Is this the one?

gerti67
5th February 2002, 00:05
@Bubba:

What can i say? - Have a close look at the german site you found. What's the second link from the right side in the header saying?

So just combine this word and the version number of the patch you found - and AAHHHHH! - Bingo! ;)

Greetings,
gerti67

P.S. I think it is not a good idea to post links like this in the forum as you can find stuff there that sure is of "questionable nature" and against the doom9 forum rules. (So please edit your post.)

DDogg
5th February 2002, 02:05
EMonty, not surprised at all about the blocks. My source was darker and extremely easy to compress. Putting 2hours on a cd is not practical at all, but, like I said, I was feeling a little crazy and I enjoy what-ifs that stretch limits.

What might be fun is for you to do a GKnot/Divx4 compression test at 480x480 resolution on your source and report that back here. If you are not familar with GKnot don't worry about it. While this creates a "compression Index" for a divx encode amd not mpeg2, I do find it can give me a good idea of whether I can showhorn a 2hour encode on 2 disks or if I need to go for 3 to achieve quality.

The famous example is SPR. That S.O.B. always takes an extra disk over other movies whether divx or mpg to achieve the same quality.

If you want to have fun sometimes run a compression test on it (SPR) and then another movie, preferable darker drama, using the same settings. A real eye opener.

Jono182
5th February 2002, 05:04
ddogg,

its great that you even took the time to even perform a trial such as this. ive always been tempted to try a 1-cd encoding to see how it would turn out. perhaps sometime ill try it with a 99 minute cd...if theres any tips you could give me that'd be great. you think the cce patch and bitrate combination is the best way to go?

-jono

waldok
5th February 2002, 09:55
As usual, DDogg rules !:)

THanks a lot for this valuable information. I'll give this a try (too old and tired for standing up in the middle of a movie to switch discs)
(Hmmmm...still, when will I get my beer now, if I don't need to stand up during the movie....)

Waldok:cool:

sandchar99
6th February 2002, 21:54
I was all set to try the Matrix patching using DVD2SVCD 1.06b3 but seeing that there was a new version, I upgraded to DVD2SVCD 1.06b4.

But, now there is no Matrices tab.

I use CCE SP 2.50 and have downloaded Tsunami's Matrix patcher. How do I accomplish this in version 1.06b4? Or, is it a feature that is now no longer supported.

I still see the "matrices.ini" in the main folder where DVD2SVCD 1.06b4 was installed.

DDogg
7th February 2002, 00:13
sandchar99, you rascal! You have been around long enough to know to read the Q&A. Try around #44 I think. This is covered. :)

sandchar99
7th February 2002, 16:55
A cautionary tale.......Always read the Q&A even if you are an experienced user.

I guess my question still is why was there a matrices tab present in DVD2SVCD 1.06b3 even though I have CCE SP 2.50? Did DVD2SVCD just not detect it?

Thanks again. DDogg, it's good to have you back after a short absence.

DDogg
7th February 2002, 17:13
I guess my question still is why was there a matrices tab present in DVD2SVCD 1.06b3 even though I have CCE SP 2.50? Did DVD2SVCD just not detect it?

I didn't use B3 long enough to notice. I assumed it was detecting it also...Maybe just one of those VooDoo glitches? :)

dvd2svcd
7th February 2002, 17:18
There definately was no Matrice tab in b3 if you were using cce 2.50, that is for sure. My guess is that you have experimented with 2.62. Anyway, matrices is supported in b4 using 2.50. Just patch CCE using tsunamis patcher. DVD2SVCD will take care of the rest.

sandchar99
7th February 2002, 17:33
I love that voodoo

Thanks guys

PS Finally going to try AVI2SVCD on home DV this weekend. I can't wait.:)

DDogg
8th February 2002, 04:59
Wait :) Remember it is barely beta and audio will not work on files bigger than 2g. I posted a simple workaround somewhere but I am too tired to find it right now. Oh, and you will probably want to use Bilinear and TS 2,1 if you shoot video like I do (crappy, jerky, low light,crap)

Damn! I just realized this is a great reason to include TMPG. It does a good job on stuff like this.