Real-time conversion of stereo to 5.1

[balky]

I am looking for a tool that can accept a stereo input and convert on the fly to 5.1 surround.

For example, in my HTPC, I use DVBViewer + AC3 filter and I have configured AC3 filter in such a way that broadcasts with stereo audio are converted to 5.1 surround and streamed over HDMI to the amplifier, and this works quite impressively.

Here is my situation:

- I have my music library (approx 30Gig) stored in MP3
- I use a behringer BCD 3000 + Traktor for playing music
The output of the behringer was connected to an equalizer which then goes into the AUX input of my old Yamaha analog amplifier and this sounded great.

I then replaced my Yamaha amp with a pioneer 1018av-h so I could use HDMI and have HD audio bitstreaming.
While this worked well for blu-rays, DVDs and satellite TV, my audio playback was a complete mess. Apart from HDMI inputs which make use of the DSPs in the amplifier, any other input into the pioneer is unbelievably useless.

I posted on the AVS forum and was advised to get a professional sound card.
I bought an EMU-0404 PCI and connected the behringer to the analog input of the card. Since I have done this, the only way I could get sound out was to enable the listening option in windows recording, and the quality is still completely far from what it used to be.
I have had this problem since about a year ago that I bought the EMU card and still searching for a solution.

I imagined it might be possible to have a direct show program that can accept a stereo input and use AC3 filter for example to bring it to 5.1 and stream the 5.1 to the pioneer. This way, it might be possible to make use of the DSPs in the pioneer.

Does anyone have suggestions?

Thanks.

[leeperry]

use the ffdshow custom mixing matrix + built-in AC3 encoder? you'll have to finetune the mixing coeffs thought, including inverted phase on the surrounds for an ambiophonic effect :)

[Ghitulescu]

If I'm not mistaken, BCD outputs unbalanced audio only.
And the Pioneer accepts only unbalanced signals only. It's extremely hard to believe they can sell a product that cannot accept stereo analog inputs (like VCR). Have you tried the connections as indicated on page 18-19? A profi soundcard can do nothing more than the BCD in the analog domain (except maybe better quality, but this is useless as you still use the analog-out of the BCD).

Maybe you could explain how you used this setup on your old Yamaha.

I don't see your problem or I'm missing something.

[balky]

If I'm not mistaken, BCD outputs unbalanced audio only.
And the Pioneer accepts only unbalanced signals only. It's extremely hard to believe they can sell a product that cannot accept stereo analog inputs (like VCR). Have you tried the connections as indicated on page 18-19? A profi soundcard can do nothing more than the BCD in the analog domain (except maybe better quality, but this is useless as you still use the analog-out of the BCD).

Maybe you could explain how you used this setup on your old Yamaha.

I don't see your problem or I'm missing something.

Thanks, the analog out of the BCD went into an equalizer which in turn was connected to the old Yamaha amplifier. The sound quality was very awesome.
When I bought the pioneer, I simply connected the BCD analog out to one of the analog inputs on the Pioneer and to my surprise the sound quality was the most horrible I ever got. The bass was very very flat and the high frequencies were distorted and I had to raise the volume on the pioneer to about 60% to hear the sound, which was quite horrible anyway.
The shock (or surprise) is that there is just no comparing audio sound quality on the pioneer to the old analog Yamaha when working with the BCD.
On the other hand, when the pioneer decodes HD audio, the quality is amazingly great.
So, there lies my problem, MP3 playback quality is almost intolerable with the pioneer over analog input while the HD audio decoding is excellent.
I am looking for a way to get the MP3 audio coming from the BCD encoded into AC3 format so that it can be bitstreamed to the pioneer.
Thanks once more.

[Ghitulescu]

It looks to me that you used the PHONO (maybe MIC) input instead of VCR, or CD, or any other -10dB source (CD, TAPE, VCR, etc.). I don't have right now the manual of the Pio but this shouldn't happen.
Also check the internal routing.
Anyway, you can still use the Yamaha as a preamp (Behringer into Yamaha, Yamaha-rec out- into Pioneer).

[TinTime]

Thanks, the analog out of the BCD went into an equalizer which in turn was connected to the old Yamaha amplifier.

This may sound stupid but have you tried BCD to the old equalizer to your new amp?

Alternatively, if you're passing an analogue signal into your soundcard does it have spdif output to connect to your new amp? You could pass stereo PCM and use the amp to upmix.

[balky]

This may sound stupid but have you tried BCD to the old equalizer to your new amp?

Alternatively, if you're passing an analogue signal into your soundcard does it have spdif output to connect to your new amp? You could pass stereo PCM and use the amp to upmix.

Great idea, thanks...

I actually decided not to use the equlizer anymore because the pioneer has an in-built one, but yes, ok, I will insert the equalizer and turn off the one in the pioneer.

The EMU0404 sound card has a spdif out which is now connected to one of the pioneer's spdif input, and I must confess, the volume issue seems to have disappeared. I do not have to raise the volume that high anymore to hear the sound very well.
But the quality is still not as natural as it was with the Yamaha.
There is an overall distortion, bass is still flat and you can't help noticing the artifacts on the high frequencies. It sounds like some over-processing is taking place somewhere.
Later tonight, I will insert the equalizer again and turn off the eq in the pioneer.
I will let you know what I find.

A million thanks to the two of you for your suggestions.

[balky]

The equalizer is back in the chain, and wow... I have it all back the way I always wanted.

The bcd 3000 out goes to the line input of the equalizer, and equalizer out goes to the analog input of the EMU 0404 card.
The spdif out of the EMU 0404 card goes into the digital input of the pioneer.
The filters of the equalizer are way way more effective than those in the built-in equalizer of the pioneer.
All the sound distortion vanished like i don't know what, and the artifacts were simply not there anymore.
What bothers me now is that standalone equalizers are no longer sold. I bought this one back in 1993 and it still works rock solid. It is a dual 10-band philips eq. I will like to get a spare one in case...

I thank you very much for this suggestion and you can't ever imagine how much I really appreciate it.

[Ghitulescu]

The equalisers in moderrn amps (AVRs) are simply jokes, because they bet on auto-equalising, for Pioneer that's MCACC.

Equalisers are still manufactured, one can find them in specialised music shops, yet they are not so expensive (relatively to pro gear) but yes, expensive compared to HiFi gear of old times. The manufacturers and software developers alike seem to think that most users are stupid, thus getting away from the beaten path is not only costly but also problematic.

[Midzuki]

All the sound distortion vanished like i don't know what, and the artifacts were simply not there anymore.

But of course. :)

What bothers me now is that standalone equalizers are no longer sold.

Well, we still are allowed to buy resistors, capacitors, diodes, transistors, analog ICs, and we may do whatever we want with them.

:) :) :)

[balky]

Well, we still are allowed to buy resistors, capacitors, diodes, transistors, analog ICs, and we may do whatever we want with them.

:) :) :)

Heh heh heh... :) my love for music doesn't go as far as building electrical circuits despite doing an introductory course in my first year in the university.
Nevertheless, I know good sound quality when I hear it...
In-built equalizers in AVRs are simply a joke according to Ghitulescu.
I'm going to spend the next few days looking for a spare standalone equalizer.

[Ghitulescu]

In-built equalizers in AVRs are simply a joke according to Ghitulescu.

I realized that this can be misunderstood. Let's nuance this: Apart from some bass and/or treble and/or maybe some middles adjustments, one cannot do much. The real equalisation should occur during mastering. The on-board equalisers serve to adapt some sources to another or to change a bit the sound. They are not designed to perform "mastering", just to correct a bit the sound. Nothing more.