Scenarist Authored: Mastering Plant is Asking for DDP Image

[BassPig]

Using Scenarist 2.7, I sent a master on DVD-R (general) to a mastering plant. The client requested CSS copy protection.

The plant called me today to say that they couldn't enable CSS because something in my master is conflicting with their ability to switch the flag on.

I dug through the manual this afternoon, and I think the problem MIGHT be that I forgot to go into the Settings menu and flag the CSS mode. I changed it from 'not copyrighted' to copyrighted and enabled Protection System. I also turned on APS. is there anything else I need to do before this will work at the replication plant?

[rik1138]

I'm using a newer version of Scenarist, but I think these settings will be the same... In the CSS editor (where you set this), you want these settings:
CPM: Copyrighted
CP_SEC: Protection System
CGMS: No Copying
APS: Off

(Don't use APS unless your client is asking for Macrovision as well as CSS. Macrovision isn't free, they have to pay for that, and no one really uses it anymore I don't think... :) If they just want 'CSS', leave APS turned off)

Make sure you do this for each VTS. For the VMG some of these a grayed out, that's fine.
When muxing, make sure you select 2054 for Sector size (not 2048)

In scenarist 3.2, the next step is making a 'Plant Direct' image, and that's what you would send to the replicator.
In 2.7, I think it was called something else... But under Target Device, you should have something like:
DLT Tape
DVD-R options
Image file (or something)

If you aren't going to DLT tape, you want that disc image option. Just burning a normal DVD-R won't work, you need to send them disc images that you can burn on a DVD-R if you want (using another burning software (don't burn with Scenarist), burn them as a data file, don't select 'burn from image' or anything, you just want to drop the image files on a disc.).

If it's a dual layer disc, you will have a separate file for each layer. Burn each file to a separate DVD-R and send them both to the replicator.

I'll see if I can 2.7 running again and double check all of this... :cool:

[Ghitulescu]

Yes, unfortunately, this doesn't work even if one has a mastering DVD burner (like Pioneer DVR-S201). Why they put this remains a mystery to me... So use DLT only unless you agreed something else with the factory...

[rik1138]

Is that a 2.7 thing? I haven't used 2.7 in so long it isn't funny... :) The issue is that you can't burn CSS on a DVD-R (even the 'authoring' DVD-Rs as far as I remember). But you can create the disc image files, and just burn those files to a DVD-R (or just copy them to a hard drive). I haven't used DLTs in a few years, we just use hard drives and DVD-Rs with PlantDirect images on them now. Usually it's a good idea to create an MD5-hash sum for the image files to guarantee they are correct when the replicator gets them, but it's not required (and some replicators won't bother to check them either...)

But, if you have the means of writing a DLT, that would be the safest solution. As far as I know, the replicators still take them (I guess you should ask, some may not anymore...)

The 'burn to DVD-R' is just for testing purposes. I don't think that was ever really intended to be used for replication, even with the 'mastering burner'.

Man, I still have one of those somewhere, and a bunch of blank 'Authoring' DVD-Rs... :) I remember that burner cost something like $17,000 when it was new (the first model was over $30,000 I think).

Rik

[BassPig]

The replicating facility wants DVD-R. But I can't do DVD-R with the 2054-byte sector size--that requires the authoring disc burner and won't work with DVD-R general discs. I was able to write the 2048-byte sector however.
I did enable all of the copy protection types and burned a new master..

Okay.. just talked to the mastering facility.. they said I may as well go with Rip Guard if I am going to use Macrovision.. so we nixed the idea. BUT.. he said that's only half the problem. He said if the disc is playable on a DVD player, then it is NOT in DDP format and they won't be able to replicate it with CSS. So now I need to figure out how to burn a DDP image with Scenarist 2.7 and then I can burn that image to a DVD-R with Nero. That's what the engineer at that plant told me to do.

[rik1138]

Yeah, that's what I was talking about with Scenarist... DO NOT use Scenarist to burn the disc. Just mux with the Disc Image option, and then use Nero (data mode, set to UDF probably because of the file size) and burn the image files to the DVD-Rs.

He's right about the playable part, if you can play the DVD-R in a DVD player, it's not what the replicator wants.

Scenarist 2.7 isn't compatible with USB dongles, and I don't even have a parallel port anymore, so I can't confirm the settings exactly for you... But you get the idea.

RipGuard and Macrovision are probably a waste of money. Macrovision just protects against people copying the DVD to VHS or something (something I don't think anyone does anymore), and RipGuard is defeated by the various cracking programs instantly anyway... Unless it's a title he really thinks is going to be heavily pirated, it's just not worth the expense. Only the major studios use them on their highest profile releases to curb piracy in the first few days of the DVDs release, and it doesn't always work...

BTW, _DAMN_ nice theater you have there... I'm jealous... :cool:

Rik

[BassPig]

So it's the MUX Data that I should be imaging to hard drive, not the DVD Root directory? In the Layout Editor, there are 3 steps:

Choose format: DVD Video, Enahnced DVD and DVD ROM. I've been choosing DVD video.

Step 2:

Target directories
DVD Root Directory
Mux Directory (I've been choosing Delete when done for the MUX--maybe this is the folder the plant wants?)

Step 3:

Choose operations...

Sector size: 2048 bytes or 2054 bytes.. (I think 2054 bytes for replication, right?)
Scramble type: Partial
Key: Without CSS (if I choose With CSS, it won't let me burn the image as it's asking for the CSS files directory).

I agree about the copy protection value. That's why I talked the client into CSS only. That's only $50, whereas RipGuard is $150 plus 4 cents/disc.


Thanks.. it's our screening room for clients. You should see our Ultimate Fireworks Video on Blu-ray on this system. :)

[rik1138]

Heh, for $50 I wouldn't even bother with CSS... :)

Everything looks good so far (deleting the Mux dir is okay, that's basically just temp space used by Scenarist).
The Sector/Scramble/Key settings look right. The replicator makes the CSS keys.
Select create disc image, and then under premastering, what options do you have? There should be an 'image' or something there, other than DLT and your burner drives...

They added this 'PlantDirect' thing sometime in 3.x I think, so I can't remember the exact settings for doing a disc image in 2.7 with CSS...

Hopefully it's possible, maybe 2.7 didn't even have that option... Everyone was using tapes back then.

[BassPig]

I know, but the client wants it. It will stop 'casual' copying only.

So the Mux director isn't what they want either?

There's no 'plant direct' option here. THere is only a Premastering dropdown and it says "no suitable SCSI device found".

I did another burn to the hard drive, this time with the Create DVD Video sector size set to 2054 bytes, scramble type=partial and Key = without CSS (otherwise Scenarist won't let me Start the writing process.) That folder structure was then burned to DVD-R with Nero. It plays on my Pioneer player.

At least the flags are set correctly, but the replicator still needs it in "DDP" format. I asked him if DDP is a recent thing.. he said it goes back farther than 1995, so Scenarist should be capable of outputting it, but just how, I do not know!

[BassPig]

I just received the error report from the mastering plant:

The error is:

CP_SEC & PES_Scrambling_control disagree

This error typically occurs on a tape or file DVD image and indicates that the CP_SEC and PES_Scrambling_control bits do not agree on whether a sector is, or will be encrypted.



That's with the standard DVD-R burned files that I gave them last week.

I only can keep my fingers crossed that by setting the flags correctly, they might be able to work with the new disc I'm giving them.

[rik1138]

So the Mux director isn't what they want either?

There's no 'plant direct' option here. THere is only a Premastering dropdown and it says "no suitable SCSI device found".

Hmm, that may be a problem... I guess try unchecking the 'delete mux directory' option, and do a full layout. See if there's a single file in that directory that's about the size of your entire disc. DDP is actually more than just one file though, so that may not work anyway. The files you want should look like this:
CONTROL.DAT
DDPID
DDPMS
MAIN.DAT
where MAIN.DAT is the disc image for a single-layer DVD, but the replicator needs all of the files.

DDP is the format that Scenarist writes to the DLT tapes, so yeah, it can do it. But I don't think the idea of putting the image on something other than a DLT was considered back when 2.7 was released... It's possible it just can't do an image layout. One option is to write the tape (if you can), and then use a tool to copy the files back off the tape to your computer. Never done that, but seems like it should work...

Are you able to upgrade your Scenarist license? Usually not a cheap option I suppose, but if you do a lot of DVD work it might be worth it to get the new features...

The PlantDirect thing might have been the first time Scenarist made this option available (It's actually designed for transmitting the images to the replicator over the internet).

Rik

[BassPig]

Upgrade is something we've been considering, especially with Blu-ray on the horizon, but we really don't want to throw more money into DVD authoring as it's future is on the decline.
And presently, I need to fix this problem in the next 24 hours, as it's holding up production and the client already has orders to fill.

The MUX data folder contained none of the file types you listed. I burned it to a DVD-ROM and am going to send it along anyway, along with the new disc. My intuition tells me that the particular error description is a flag issue, not so much a DDP formatting issue. Maybe I'll be lucky.

[kolak]

I just received the error report from the mastering plant:

The error is:

CP_SEC & PES_Scrambling_control disagree

This error typically occurs on a tape or file DVD image and indicates that the CP_SEC and PES_Scrambling_control bits do not agree on whether a sector is, or will be encrypted.



That's with the standard DVD-R burned files that I gave them last week.

I only can keep my fingers crossed that by setting the flags correctly, they might be able to work with the new disc I'm giving them.

How can you do a project in Scenarist when you have lack of basic knowledge?
You can't burn CSS flagged DVD and send it for replication :)
You either don't use CSS and use 2048 sector or send 2054 image file on DVD, but as a data.

Update Scenarist to have ability to write DDP files- it does not cost that much these days.


Andrew

[Eric69]

I was going to say....you spent alot of cash on thats tool if your using 2.7. Why didnt you ever upgrade?

Just use Gear or DVDAfterEdit to make your DDP files from your TS folder . I do all my premastering on AfterEdit.

[BassPig]

I was going to say....you spent alot of cash on thats tool if your using 2.7. Why didnt you ever upgrade?

Just use Gear or DVDAfterEdit to make your DDP files from your TS folder . I do all my premastering on AfterEdit.

Those appear to be only for Mac. We're a PC/Windows shop.

[rik1138]

I was going to say....you spent alot of cash on thats tool if your using 2.7. Why didnt you ever upgrade?

It can depend on how you got it. If it was purchased used, it might have been fairly cheap. I think Sonic still charges $2000-4000 for an upgrade. If they bought it originally from Sonic, 2.7 would have been in 2001 I think. Sonic will make them renew the SonicCare contract for _every year_ since they owned it. $2000+ * 8 years or so is a lot of money... Now, you can probably talk them out of that, you never know. Especially if you buy the Blu-ray authoring software, you might talk them into throwing in an SD upgrade free (or cheap)...

It's an expense, and companies always try to get out of paying anything they can. I usually have to pitch an argument for renewing the SonicCare contract every year at the company I work at just to keep the software updated and the support...

As for replication, I always recommend _against_ replicating from a playable DVD-R, regardless of whether or not you are using CSS. The DVD-R could have a burn error on it that isn't detected during the burning process (and could be caused by dirt/scratches created at the replicator), and these errors will be transferred to the master, and all replicated discs. DLTs, hard drives, images (or at least a ZIP file containing the VIDEO_TS folder) are the only ways to go. And with every method except DLT, I always include an MD5 hash value with the files. Hopefully the replicator is smart enough to know how to check it...

Just use Gear or DVDAfterEdit to make your DDP files from your TS folder . I do all my premastering on AfterEdit.

Does that work for CSS premastering too? I've never used anything other than Scenarist for replication, and have always wondered how well (and compatible) the tools are...

Rik

[kolak]

It can depend on how you got it. If it was purchased used, it might have been fairly cheap. I think Sonic still charges $2000-4000 for an upgrade. If they bought it originally from Sonic, 2.7 would have been in 2001 I think. Sonic will make them renew the SonicCare contract for _every year_ since they owned it. $2000+ * 8 years or so is a lot of money...

Rik

New Scenarist Pro is 5K$. So your 8x 2K$ is unreal. It's just what they say (or rather Sonic sale people say)- if you talk correctly it should be possible to update it for less than 1K$.

Your support cost numbers are wrong anyway.

[rik1138]

Close, but yeah, my numbers were a little high apparently... The last time I actually priced all of this the software was still $10,000... :)

Not sure if this was a special deal or regular pricing, but I got these numbers recently (and completely forgot I had received them..) :
One time upgrade to 3.3 (this is from 3.2, not 2.7, so that might factor in on these prices): $599
SonicCare SD for one year: $499

So, if you just want the software only, $599, if you want the software and a year of support, $1098 total. (That implies that if you just pay $499 for a new year of SonicCare, it won't get you an upgrade to the software...) You might also be able to talk them into a free parallel to USB dongle upgrade (they normally charge $199 for this).

But one thing I do remember people saying (and maybe this prompted Sonic to stop requiring back-pay for SD support), is if you have back-pay for several years of support, you might as well just buy a new license...

But I have seen them quote more than the cost of a new license just to get caught up on the support contract... It is pretty stupid... The nice thing about paying for support is I'll ask them any stupid question I can think of without feeling bad about wasting their time... :)

[BassPig]

Thanks Rik. I'm calling Sonic tomorrow, armed with pricing info, so that I have some leverage with negotiating an upgrade.
An upgrade to the USB dongle would be great, too, as some of the new hardware doesn't have serial/parallel ports anymore, especially laptops. We have gone without SoniCare for the last couple of years.. it just got too expensive with the economy the way it was. I hope they don't try to charge us back-dated support. Will report back what I find.....

[Eric69]

Does that work for CSS premastering too? I've never used anything other than Scenarist for replication, and have always wondered how well (and compatible) the tools are...

Yes...AfterEdit is wonderful. I wouldn't own a Mac if it wasn't for it :) No sure about Gear but AfterEdit was developed for years and was approved as spec compliant by the DVD Forum. I had a distributor client who bought rights to a bunch of DVD titles one time. All they had were DLTs and "finished goods" off the shelves. They wanted thier logo in place of the old distributors at the beginning and run back to DLT for a new replication run. Re-routed the command structure and brought in a new logo and spit out DLTs all in AfterEdit. I did hundreds and made a sweet buck! Man! Those were fun days indeed!

Those appear to be only for Mac. We're a PC/Windows shop.

Gear is PC and they have a free trial so I see that as your only way out unless you go buy a DLT or upgrade

[rik1138]

Thanks Rik. I'm calling Sonic tomorrow, armed with pricing info, so that I have some leverage with negotiating an upgrade.
An upgrade to the USB dongle would be great, too, as some of the new hardware doesn't have serial/parallel ports anymore, especially laptops. We have gone without SoniCare for the last couple of years.. it just got too expensive with the economy the way it was. I hope they don't try to charge us back-dated support. Will report back what I find.....

Yeah, one other thing was that my SonicCare was only about 6 months out of date when they offered this, so it's not including back years...

But the one-time software only upgrade sounded like something they might just offer now. I can imagine a lot of companies saying they just don't need the SD support, but would like the latest software. In the last two years, I think I've only used SonicCare for Blu-ray help... If you've been authoring for years, it is kind of a waste of money most of the time (and the rest of the time you can just come to Doom9. :) )

On catch with the Parallel-USB switch is that they will make you send back the Parallel dongle, so you will no longer be able to run 2.7. Make sure you save a script (or full archive) of _ALL_ of your Scenarist projects, no matter how old. Just in case you ever need to open one, you can import the script into any version of Scenarist, but the SCN files won't work anymore.

[mp3dom]

Like others have said, Scenarist 2.7 simply is unable to do PlantDirect (aka DDP 2.0). The version that starts to support DDP is Scenarist 3.0 (actually the latest version is 3.3.1!). The upgrade from 3 to 3.3.1 costs about 300 euros. Don't know if the price is different from 2.7 to 3.x but it's better to contact the Sonic support site.
If you're in hurry you can use Gear Pro Mastering Edition which supports DDP and DDP with CSS. The most important thing is to set CSS in the right way AND choose 2054 bytes sectors. Then in Gear is quite easy BUT keep in mind that if your project is on DVD9 you probably need to calculate the layer break point (meaning that you need to put the sector number where you want to change the layer. There are some rules to adhere so you need to carefully read the Gear tutorials). If you're lucky, Gear will find itself the right layer break (it depends by your authoring, if you have only one not-seamless playback in IFO and IS the layer break then Gear will find it)
Regarding DDP also it's *important* that you burn the files in UDF file system (no ISO9660+UDF, just UDF 1.02) and you need to write the files on the root (no folders/subfolders). Otherwise you risk to replicate the 4 files and not its contents (the dvd-video data). Also label the DVD with its layer (layer0/layer1) and explicit that you've sent a DDP 2.0 Image just to avoid surprises! Not all replicators check the contents of your dvds, so better stay on the safe side!
Good luck!

[Eric69]

Yeah...I love the post on Gear's forum that talks about the box set this guys buys only to find replicated DDP folders. Someone lost their job Im sure!

http://www.gearsoftware.com/support/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1146

[mp3dom]

ROTFL! :)
Anyway if you burn without folders/subfolders and in UDF 1.02, the replication program (in general is EclipseSuite) will catch the DDP automatically. This will exclude at least those human errors.

[rik1138]

Yeah...I love the post on Gear's forum that talks about the box set this guys buys only to find replicated DDP folders. Someone lost their job Im sure!

http://www.gearsoftware.com/support/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1146

Oh crap, that _IS_ funny...

As far as I'm concerned, _any_ company/client/facility that goes from replication master (be it DVD or DLT) straight to manufacturing without even putting a check disk in a player deserves to get screwed like this... I can't stand when clients want me to author a disc and deliver a tape straight to the replicator because 'they have the packaging done and need to start packing discs first thing in the morning' or something.

I make them sign a waiver saying they won't hold me responsible for _ANY_ mistakes, even if it is my fault...

[Eric69]

I did a DVD for a client who insisted it get done without a QC...Yes WITHOUT QC!!!! I didnt have a post command on the chapters loop menu so it just crash as soon as the loop was done.

The bozo replicated 50,000 copies and lost his ass! My company made him sign a waiver too. Classic!!

[Ghitulescu]

The issue is that you can't burn CSS on a DVD-R (even the 'authoring' DVD-Rs as far as I remember).
The replicating facility wants DVD-R. But I can't do DVD-R with the 2054-byte sector size--that requires the authoring disc burner and won't work with DVD-R general discs. I was able to write the 2048-byte sector however.
I did enable all of the copy protection types and burned a new master..
You won't be able to burn a 2054B sector (ie CSS DVD) on any DVD-R, be it (A) or (G), using any burner, be it (A) or (G).
This is what I said before.

But yes:
But you can create the disc image files, and just burn those files to a DVD-R (or just copy them to a hard drive). I haven't used DLTs in a few years, we just use hard drives and DVD-Rs with PlantDirect images on them now. Usually it's a good idea to create an MD5-hash sum for the image files to guarantee they are correct when the replicator gets them, but it's not required (and some replicators won't bother to check them either...)

[kolak]

But I have seen them quote more than the cost of a new license just to get caught up on the support contract... It is pretty stupid... The nice thing about paying for support is I'll ask them any stupid question I can think of without feeling bad about wasting their time... :)

Sonic support is quite basic. I you have a real problem thay never have answer. You also mostly pay for bug fixes- this is not what support contract should be for.

Latests Scenarist 3.3 (Win 7 ready) has fixed many bugs, but introduce many new ones. Stay with 3.1

[rik1138]

Sonic support is quite basic. I you have a real problem thay never have answer. You also mostly pay for bug fixes- this is not what support contract should be for.

Latests Scenarist 3.3 (Win 7 ready) has fixed many bugs, but introduce many new ones. Stay with 3.1

Not the support I use... Maybe it's a different support team for different countries? I use it primarily for Blu-ray these days, but they've gone as far as compiling special builds of the authoring software with a 24 hour period for me to solve problems. I've spoken with some of the programmers/internal QC people directly, and at least a few of the new features in the latest HDMV authoring software are direct requests from me and a couple of other authors in the area.

I get a response back from them almost immediately about any request (hell, look at this thread, when I first posted I sent them a support request to get a copy of 2.7 I could test with, when I posted that 2.7 wouldn't work with a USB dongle, that was from their response...). I have some issues with the software in general at times, but never with the support.

As for SD 3.3, yeah, I've heard it's a bit 'iffy'. I'm still using 3.2 for now, but I'll try it out on the next SD project I get.

Rik

[kolak]

.

As for SD 3.3, yeah, I've heard it's a bit 'iffy'. I'm still using 3.2 for now, but I'll try it out on the next SD project I get.

Rik

Iffy like everything when Sonic does update. Always the same story. Never use version x or x.x- always plenty of bugs :)
Sonic does not do almost any internal QC- it took them few years to fix all simple GUI problems with Scenarist SD. Hurray- but they've introduced new ones in 3.3- they seams to don't know how to handle DF timecode. This kind of issue should be fixed within one week in my opinion.

[BassPig]

Well our story seems to have a happy ending...
Sonic upgraded us for two seats for less than $1KUS. We went to 3.0, since we have parallel port dongles and it seems to be solid and we're still solidly based on Win XP.

So I ran off a DDP from the PlantDirect output menu and sent it off.. I set the flags in the CPM and CGMS for no copying, copyrighted, etc., for the VMG and all VTS; though I could not include CSS keys in the Layout Editor, simply being that the replication plant will do that.

I think the company that's doing our client's discs was a little confused though.. last week, when we sent them a DVD-R image, they told us they could not enable CSS on that. They could try, but the results might be some VTS could play back scrambled. I guess they are unaware of Gear Pro. Anyway, I sent them a new master as a DDS image. Now they call me and seem to think I included CSS because now they can't look into the image.. they seemed confused about the difference between setting CSS flags and actually embedding CSS into the project. I had to explain it to them, as the guy at the mastering plant had never heard of Scenarist--he said he uses FinalCut Pro and some DVD authoring tool based on Spruce, enhanced by Apple. So after 10 minutes of me explaining what I did in Scenarist, we both agreed that it is probably done correctly. He just wanted to let me and the client know that they can't take responsibility if the disc pressings turn out wrong.

We're happy with the upgrade. It has numerous workflow enhancements. One I really like is the fact that it builds still menus automagically now from Photoshop layers. This saves 15 minutes per menu. Just drag the PSD file directly to the Track Editor and it allows you to select layers for buttons and then it makes a ready to use menu with widescreen and letterbox subpicture versions all set with buttons and basic linking. The only thing I need to do is click on autoroute and then it's ready to use in the Scenario. Several small, but time-saving enhancements of this nature.. so in a way, this is the silver lining. Money was spent, but we'll quickly make it back in time savings. And is it just me, or is this version even snappier and quicker than 2.7? Anyway, very happy with the upgrade and how fast the folks at Sonic handled this emergency. Client is already taking orders for the DVD, so naturally, I'm nervous when production tells me there's any kind of problem.

BTW, the production house told me they can manufacture Blu-ray for $1 each, plus a $1200 stamper fee and $600 AACS license. I am wondering how this is possible, but maybe I'll take that to the Blu-ray forum for followup.

[rik1138]

Cool, glad to hear it worked... I'd be terrified of using a replicator that's only worked with DVD Studio Pro though, that's kind of scary... That means they don't do any professional level work, just little projects... But that probably also means they are cheap, and I'm sure clients love that... :)

In Scenarist, you should be able to copy/paste Pre and Post commands now too. That was one of the greatest additions to that software back then. Right-click on a PGC, and under Copy Special you will find Pre, Post and Button commands. That can be a real time saver depending on the project you are working on (especially building DVD games).

The Blu-Ray prices sound about right. You can get replication done for a $2000 startup and $1-2 per disc, so they seem to be on the cheaper end of that...

Rik

[Lyris]

Yeah...I love the post on Gear's forum that talks about the box set this guys buys only to find replicated DDP folders. Someone lost their job Im sure!

http://www.gearsoftware.com/support/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1146

Holy ..... !

How did that even get out to retail?

[kolak]

Holy ..... !

How did that even get out to retail?

Simple-some companies use students to author their discs and then....


Andrew

[rik1138]

Actually, the authoring was fine, the replicator screwed up and just manufactured the disc image as data instead of mounting it like a DVD disc image...

But the fault lies with the client that didn't bother to even put a single copy of the replicated disc in _ANY_ player before sending it out to stores... That's the single stupidest thing anyone can do... If you don't have time to do a full QC pass on a replicated check disc, and least stick it _one_ player, just to make sure you can see the menu! Sure the replicator screwed up, but the paperwork might have stated it was a data disc. Those details we don't know. But you should always get check discs, and you should always play at least one of them before going with the final run. (Check discs are NOT DVD-Rs, BTW, Check discs are the first 10-20 replicated discs off the line that the replicator should send you for verification...)

[kolak]

Actually, the authoring was fine, the replicator screwed up and just manufactured the disc image as data instead of mounting it like a DVD disc image...

But the fault lies with the client that didn't bother to even put a single copy of the replicated disc in _ANY_ player before sending it out to stores... That's the single stupidest thing anyone can do... If you don't have time to do a full QC pass on a replicated check disc, and least stick it _one_ player, just to make sure you can see the menu! Sure the replicator screwed up, but the paperwork might have stated it was a data disc. Those details we don't know. But you should always get check discs, and you should always play at least one of them before going with the final run. (Check discs are NOT DVD-Rs, BTW, Check discs are the first 10-20 replicated discs off the line that the replicator should send you for verification...)

True- heard of similar stories. Some people have no imagination.

Andrew

[Lyris]

Indeed, I insist on check discs.

I also insisted on NOT submitting the master as a playable DVD-Video disc!

[Arky]

Yeah...I love the post on Gear's forum that talks about the box set this guys buys only to find replicated DDP folders. Someone lost their job Im sure!

http://www.gearsoftware.com/support/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1146


Ouch!! Trai Forrester could've saved a lot of red faces on that one, I'm sure!

It is amazing how reckless some authors &/or replicators &/or clients can be in their QC workflow, given the huge sums of money involved in mass-replication for retail. Just goes to show we're all human, I suppose, and it's always tempting to cut costs in production, with QC often being the area first to be cut, in spite of the exponential financial risks that may be incurred further down the line. If I were authoring professionally, I would painstakingly express the extreme importance of robust QC to my clients, but, of course, the final decision/risk always rests with the client and one can only speculate on the who might have actually been responsible for the aforementioned incident with the box-set. I really feel for those of you authoring on the front line - it's a competitive market and clients, understandably, invariably seek the cheapest tender; there will always be other authors who are not as diligent in their attention to QC who will gladly put in lower tenders, caring little for the client's final outcome.


Arky.

[Arky]

The replicating facility wants DVD-R. But I can't do DVD-R with the 2054-byte sector size--that requires the authoring disc burner and won't work with DVD-R general discs. I was able to write the 2048-byte sector however.
I did enable all of the copy protection types and burned a new master..

Okay.. just talked to the mastering facility.. they said I may as well go with Rip Guard if I am going to use Macrovision.. so we nixed the idea. BUT.. he said that's only half the problem. He said if the disc is playable on a DVD player, then it is NOT in DDP format and they won't be able to replicate it with CSS. So now I need to figure out how to burn a DDP image with Scenarist 2.7 and then I can burn that image to a DVD-R with Nero. That's what the engineer at that plant told me to do.




Forgive me if this has already been discussed (I couldn't see it whilst reading the thread) but was there any particular reason why FTP or cheap external HDD (as Rik mentioned) were ruled out as possible methods of image transfer to the replicator, given that DLT wasn't an option for you..? (to be honest, if you're authoring seriously, why not just take the plunge and get a secondhand/reconditioned DLT and card?)

Personally, alarm bells would be ringing, LOUDLY, if a replicator was insisting on DVDR images - these are, arguably, not as reliable as HDD or DLT (MD5 checksum-insurance notwithstanding, assuming the replicator makes the effort to check them - some replicators do not consider verification of source material to be a priority at their end, over and above a cursory Eclipse check which (through no fault of Eclipse) may be conducted with many of the potential warning flags disabled by the operator). Sure, a replicator may offer the option of DVDR image submission, just to please as many potential customers as possible, but for the replicator themselves to specifically request DVDR over DLT or HDD would not fill me with confidence in their workflow, even though DVDR may be becoming increasingly popular as a submission medium. If a replicator is insisting on DVDR submission, then does this, perhaps, imply that the replicator in question does not have a DLT deck? If so, why? DLT is the industry standard for replication submission. If the replicator does not have a DLT deck then what other aspects of their equipment may be found wanting? Or perhaps their is a perfectly reasonable explanation. All I 'm saying is that any replicator who specifically requested DVDR submission in preference to DLT or HDD or FTP would at least start me asking questions as to why.


Arky.

[mp3dom]

Surely it's strange that a replicator doesn't accept DLT or prefer DVDR over DLT. Anyway, DDP image onto DVDR are safe exactly as the DLT. The replicators do the work in less time to read the image (a simple copy/paste rather than read a tape). DDP works with CSS encryption (if needed), also one of the files (DDPID if I'm not wrong) contains the checksum of the image so the integrity control is mandatory for the replicator software (this add another security layer). It's at least 2 years that I'm using DDP over DLT because it's more practical, costs less and is quicker to create. Never had a problem with it.

[BassPig]

The client's replicator simply needed a DDP format file, and since they told me that is basically what's on the DLT cartridge, but it could be supplied on DVD, HDD, or other means. DVD was convenient for us and for them, so that's what we did. That replicator told me that DLT is out of date and many replicators aren't using it anymore, including themselves.
The job went through fine and the client was very happy with the finished product. I'm still waiting to get a couple copies from the client that I requested. I'm curious to see what the quality of the packaging is like as I've never used that particular service bureau before.

[Eric69]

Ouch!! Trai Forrester could've saved a lot of red faces on that one, I'm sure!

Or they could have saved your cash paying him and actually tell the replicator these were DDP images or had a replicator aware enough to know the difference. I haven't heard from Trai in awhile...he must be roaming the earth now like Kane from Kung Fu:)

[Arky]

Whatever the case, I'm glad you got it sorted in the end, Mark / Mary :)

All the best.

Arky.

[kolak]

Surely it's strange that a replicator doesn't accept DLT or prefer DVDR over DLT. Anyway, DDP image onto DVDR are safe exactly as the DLT. The replicators do the work in less time to read the image (a simple copy/paste rather than read a tape). DDP works with CSS encryption (if needed), also one of the files (DDPID if I'm not wrong) contains the checksum of the image so the integrity control is mandatory for the replicator software (this add another security layer). It's at least 2 years that I'm using DDP over DLT because it's more practical, costs less and is quicker to create. Never had a problem with it.

I don't think that any of the DDP files contains checksum, that's why we alsways add them to the disk or send via email.
Most of the big replication plants make them mandatory, becuse it's for them only way to verify deliver process, whatever method was used. We use mainly internet for delivery of DVD projects.

Andrew

[mp3dom]

Sorry, my mistake I was referring to Gear DDP images (that by default have checksum) and not Sonic ones (which don't have checksum). In general I'm using Gear so I was thinking that all DDPs images have checksum.

[BassPig]

Interesting and cautionary tale that Gear has checksum and Sonic does not. At any rate, the client's project is done and in distribution now and everyone is pleased with how it turned out. Can't wait for the next project.