Retaining fluid motion from a Telecine source

[nibus]

Hi,

I've used GKnot and MeGUI for a while but have just started getting into filters and plugins and could use a little advice. I have started encoding my Office DVD's and I believe they are all 3-2 Telecine Anamorphic NTSC:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5637223/sample1.vob
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5637223/sample2.vob

I've used this script to encode in MeGUI:


global MeGUI_darx = 16
global MeGUI_dary = 9
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\Multimedia\MeGUI\tools\dgindex\DGDecode.dll")
DGDecode_mpeg2source("H:\Encode\Office Season 5\VIDEO_TS\Episode 01.d2v", info=3)
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\Multimedia\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\ColorMatrix.dll")
ColorMatrix(hints=true, threads=0)
TFM(mode=5,slow=2,clip2=NNEDI2()).TDecimate(hybrid=1)
MCTemporalDenoise(settings="low")

I get pretty good results, but the first problem I am having is in scenes where there are long, slow camera pans there is a fair amount of flicker (if that's the right word). The motion does not seem fluid. Of course I'm sure this is part of the 23fps territory, but I can't help but wonder if there is a better way.

Is there any other plugin/script or different usage of these plugins that will help retain more fluid motion? I usually use TGMC for deinterlacing but from what I have read it is not meant to handle telecine material (please correct me if I'm wrong).

The 2nd small problem is I am getting some type of ghosting (not sure what correct terminology is here) on some frames (see around his head and neck):

edit:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5637223/sample.png

I have tried DeHalo_Alpha with mediocre results. Can anyone recommend a filter or setting for MCTD that might help clear this up?

Thank you in advance!

[Inspector.Gadget]

For IVTC, try just the simple TFM().TDecimate() and see what happens. Combing artifacts on some frames after IVTC can often be fixed with Vinverse(), which you'll have to download separately and put in your Avisynth plugins folder.

[nibus]

For IVTC, try just the simple TFM().TDecimate() and see what happens. Combing artifacts on some frames after IVTC can often be fixed with Vinverse(), which you'll have to download separately and put in your Avisynth plugins folder.

Thanks Inspector I'll give that a shot.

[Blue_MiSfit]

Don't upload BMPs. At least compress to a lossless format like PNG :D

Regarding your halo problem, it looks very subtle to me - perhaps it's more obvious in motion. This type of halo is usually caused by too much edge enhancement, aka simple sharpening. I've calmed this with the plugin "Unfilter" in the past. Try light values like Unfilter(-2,-2) or something. Other than that, I'm not sure how to go about fixing it, but maybe someone else can offer suggestions.

As far as IVTC goes, TFM.TDecimate works perfectly. For that matter, so does a simple Telecide.Decimate, since there's no fancy business ;) The jitter / flicker you're seeing is a simple fact of shooting 24p video. You can't really "fix" it. The inverse telecine process is designed to reverse the 24p->60i process. In this regard, the filers are doing precisely what they're designed to do, and returning the original, untouched 24p images.

~MiSfit

[Gser]

Are you sure the source is hybrid?

[osgZach]

Telecide(order=1).Decimate()

seemed to work fine on Sample1 (the only one I have looked at). Don't seem to be any real combing issues either, except for the first start frame(s) of the clip... Although that might just be motion blur related.. I'm not real experience with live action footage. But I didn't see any egregious combing issues anywhere else in the clip, at least not anything that would be noticed at real time playback.

I do think there may be some rainbowing issues though.. Pay special attention to the window blinds in the background of the scene.

[nibus]

Don't upload BMPs. At least compress to a lossless format like PNG :D


:o
Fix'd!


The jitter / flicker you're seeing is a simple fact of shooting 24p video. You can't really "fix" it. The inverse telecine process is designed to reverse the 24p->60i process. In this regard, the filers are doing precisely what they're designed to do, and returning the original, untouched 24p images.


Yeah I thought this was probably the case... I guess my eyes are just too used to 60+fps video games.

Are you sure the source is hybrid?

I thought the opening credits were film, but on second glance I may have been wrong on this one. Would setting Hybrid=1 on a non-hybrid source possibly cause problems, or would it just slow down the encoding process?


I do think there may be some rainbowing issues though.. Pay special attention to the window blinds in the background of the scene.

I hadn't noticed that but you are definitely right. I don't have any experience with de-rainbowing.... how would you handle this particular instance? FFT3DGPU?

Thanks again for your help guys.

[Atak_Snajpera]

I think you should just enable Force Film in DGIndex. This is probably more correct way to deal with soft 3:2 pulldown.

[nibus]

I think you should just enable Force Film in DGIndex. This is probably more correct way to deal with soft 3:2 pulldown.

Yeah I tried that first and the encode was identical to using IVTC... which is why I was wondering if there were different options available through IVTC that could possibly offer a better solution. I will probably end up using Force Film like you suggest.

[osgZach]

I'm not really sure what the most up to date filter for de-rainbowing is, and several filters are multi-function.. I would defer to another forum users for suggestions.

[nibus]

Here are a few screenshots with my latest encode settings using Force FILM instead of IVTC:



# Set DAR in encoder to 853 : 480. The following line is for automatic signalling
global MeGUI_darx = 853
global MeGUI_dary = 480
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\Multimedia\MeGUI\tools\dgindex\DGDecode.dll")
DGDecode_mpeg2source("H:\Encode\Office Season 5\VIDEO_TS\Episode 02.d2v", info=3)
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\Multimedia\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\ColorMatrix.dll")
ColorMatrix(hints=true, threads=0)
SMDegrain(tr=3)
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0,ss_y=1.0,Smode=4,strength=60)
DeHalo_Alpha()

# x264 1200kbps / "Extra" High Quality with very slow / Film / 2 pass



I did a side by side comparison with MCTemporalDenoise and I preferred the above (plus about twice as fast encoding.) However I don't know the ins and outs of the MCTD script...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5637223/Episode%2002.mp4_snapshot_04.09_%5B2010.04.15_21.05.57%5D.png

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5637223/Episode%2002.mp4_snapshot_12.12_%5B2010.04.15_21.06.25%5D.png

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5637223/Episode%2002.mp4_snapshot_15.58_%5B2010.04.15_21.06.44%5D.png

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5637223/Episode%2002.mp4_snapshot_19.17_%5B2010.04.15_21.07.18%5D.png

I'm quite happy with the results though I'm always open to suggestions.

[kevo777]

Yeah I tried that first and the encode was identical to using IVTC... which is why I was wondering if there were different options available through IVTC that could possibly offer a better solution. I will probably end up using Force Film like you suggest.

That is absolutely the best way. Like what was mentioned before, the motion artifact that you see on slower camera pans is the nature of 24p content. There is no fixing it. Embrace it.