Bitsrate in DVD2SVCD

[machura]

I didn't well understand setting of "Bitsrate" in DVD2SVCD.

1) here I can know - when place to CD ___ mins, how must be max. average bitsrate set in kb/s ? And for quality must be average >= 1600kb/s, Ok ? ( there is xxx-yyy )

=>I must add CDs, when is "yyy" bitsrate >= 1600kb/s

F.eg: I have movie 121min. => 2CD 80min are only (1947 - 1568) =>I must set to 121min "3" CD80min (3035 - 2468) or "3" CD74(2788-2264) =>program make 3ISO ?

When I forgot change it from 2 to 3CD, I got only 2ISO and 5mins of end movie wasn't.

Where I can set average bitsrate ? Bottom is 1600, but any change of this doesnt works in settings of CCE.

How I can count average bitsrate ? I can only set Max, Min and Max avg, but I doesnt know average min.

2) I have 119min movie, but 119min on 2CD80 is only 1598. I want not place it to 3CD. How I must set it ?

[Labersack]

Another guy t lazy to read before posting?
Here a part of the Q&A which anyone in this forum should read!


Q36: Could you please explain how dvd2svcd uses the bitrate tab in details?
A: What dvd2svcd do to calculate the avg. bitrate:

1. DVD2SVCD starts CCE and load the avs file and save the project file (ecl) and closes CCE again.
2. DVD2SVCD opens the project file, and it finds the number of frames and the framerate in that project file.
3. Using the frames and the framerate dvd2svcd calculates the number of minutes the movie is.
4. Using the minutes, dvd2svcd goes through each line in the bitrate tab. When it finds the line where the minutes are between X and XX minutes dvd2svcd get's the number of cd's and the cd size it should use.
5. DVD2SVCD then uses minutes, number of cds and the cd size to calculate the highest bitrate to fill the number of cd's to the limit.
6. DVD2SVCD calculates the avg. bitrate, modifies the Project file, runs CCE loads the Project file into CCE and starts encoding.

Example PAL movie:

After loading the Project file dvd2svcd determines that the number of frames are 155547 and a framerate of 25 fps.

Minutes = 155547 / 25 = 6221,88 seconds = Rounded to 104 minutes

Line used in the DEFAULT bitrate tab will be line 4 since the number of minutes is between 100 and 120 minutes. So the number of cds to be used are 2 and the size of the cd's are 800 each.

As you can see from the above I now have all the figures needed to calculate the bitrate to be used to fill 2 cd's of 800 mb.

------

The Max. and Min. down below of the bitrate tab are fixed values used as is in CCE. Those values are used by CCE to do the VBR calculation of each frame. Hence using many bits on complex frames and vice versa.

The Max. Avg. and Min. Avg. are boundary values. If the Min. Avg. is checked the calculated bitrate will never go below the entered number. And the calculated bitrate will never go above the Max. Avg. bitrate. That means has the side effect that if you have a movie of eg. 77 minutes it will not fill 2 * 740 completely because the calculated bitrate will be above the Max. Avg. bitrate and you will only get one filled CD and one 3/4 filled (or so).

[machura]

Of course, it I know, but seting of Avg. Min value works some strange !!!

I'm define, that I want 2CD-80min for 119minuts and "standard value" in bitrates (min Avg. 1600 is not checked), but still is cut several minuts of end.
=>I want get less MIN avg(f.eg. 1580) = >I want place whole to 2CD, but it not still works - change MAX, MAX avg.- CCE still works with same value and is same result !!!

It is only way, how make it:
- i'm set "Max avg." < "Min avg." and checked Min Avg.
Then I got in 4VBR:
Min: 300
Max: 2350
Avg: 1580

Did You think, it is good way ?

[Mozart]

post the dvd2svcd_log.txt here.

[mrbass]

what is your cd overlap? If you put like 5 seconds or so I'd jack your 800 cd size down to like 797. Also always give 5 mins or so cushion. If your movie is 119min...make the range between whatever - 124min. BTW if anyone would like to elaborate more on the bitrate section for the Advanced Reference I'd be glad to throw it in their (can you say Keirdriken where are you sp?)

[machura]

I have idea for better placement to 2CDs, when I want set less Min Avg:

When I want 2CD full, I set to bitrate only one CD, but size is 2x805=1610. Then will be one mpg and I will must cut it in TMPGEnc. I can use 120min in Min Avg. 1600.


Note: CD-R 80minut: LeadIn - Data - Lead Out.

Lead In: here is TOC, it has 4,5MB
Data : 360000 sectors for 2352B for A/V
Lead Out: 13,5MB

- at 1th: 80mins CD has for DATA: 2352 * 360000 sectors = 807,49MB and no only 800 !!!
- at 2nd: 5MB for TOC? Why? It is stored automaticaly in LEADIN!!!. Only in case, when is big filesystem ( plenty of folders, files ), then can be used space for DATA. But it will be never on SVCD !!!

=> why program count cutting point less than 5M of capacity CD ? See to log and you can see it.
True may be: 807,49 and this number go to counting.

Is possible to use more place, when we using overburning:
Each CD is overburned - minimaly can be use LEAD OUT = 1,5min, but DVD players must not read it well.

Ideal will be added "advanced option" in DVD2SVCD for own timepoint of cutting movie. Will it be somewhere ?

[markrb]

What version of DVD2SVCD are you using? Some of the 1.05 versions had a CD size bug.

To cut the files based on time is tricky at best. With VBR encoding the first hour may have little need for high bitrates while the second has allot of action and higher bitrates thus more file size. VBR encodes are not consistent or preditable. This makes it impossible to cut based solely on time.

File size is completely adjustable all you need to do is change the size on the CD tab to what you want keeping in mind the final .cue/.bin file will be about 7mb greater.

The bitrate is actually very easy to understand the way it works. DVD2SVCD does adjustments to the set Max AVG based upon the time and number of cd's set to try and make the video fit. If DVD2SVCD figures that there is more room on the cd then it will not set the average above the Max AVG setting.

If you check Min AVG this can throw the whole CD size creation off. Leave it unchecked.

If I am understanding you right why don't you just uncheck Min Avg and put 120 at 2 cd's of 800. That should give you two files with 806mb max.

Mark

[machura]

I using 1.0.6.

Can You matematicaly ? My English is bad.

I have 121,1 minuts. When I want count movie to 2CD 80min, I got for 2CD80mins and 122 at far right number 1586.

=> what I must set this ? Must I decrease Max Average to 1586 ?


ad divide) - it is for movie, where arent all CD max. filed.
I know, when is file divided, then must be take some before. But I want make cut (when it is possible ) on time, where is changet chapters or is transfer to dark etc, and not in half of key scene... Understand ?

[machura]

2 questions:

1) for One pass VBS and Multipas it is same seting?

2) is standard, that for Athlon 1800+, 256MB DRAM L2, 2ATA100 IBM 30GB is RT in CCE 0.5-0.6 for ONE PASS VBR , Q3, Temp- Smother ON ?

[Mozart]

where is the dvd2svcd_log file? Post the d2s project file also. These files have more information than those that you have had provided here.

[Holomatrix]

Try this: Split at 800MB (for 80minCD's), use Max. 2592 Min. 0 Max.avg 1700, Audio bitrate of 128 and you will be fine for 119min movie. 2 CD's, (maybe a 3rd with a bit of credits on it which you can Ignore) and burn your 2 cd's.
Hope these settings help :)

[markrb]

Holomatrix I don't agree with your settings for the following reasons.
1. Max Bitrate too high many stand alone players cannot handle that.
2. Audio too low many prefer at least 192 if not 224.
3. Min at 0 can cause many Stand alone players to have problems

machura there is no "standard" other then the defaults. Once you change anything you have to experiment.

If you use one pass VBR with the rest of the settings default your video will suffer. Many find 1 pass VBR with a Q of 5 and TS on to give good results. I prefer 4 pass VBR myself, but it's up to you what you like.

Here is where I think your problem is:
You think you need to change the bitrate settings. You do not. Leave them at default. DVD2SVCD changes the AVG internally to make the video fit the number and size of CD's you set it for. The MAx avg setting is what DVD2SVCD cannot go above when it does it's calculations. If you lower it then you are potentially dropping your video quality. If you wish to change anything then keep this in mind.

MAX=Highest bitrate that can be used in the video encode. Always check your DVD player to see what it can do before raising.

MAX AVG=Highest setting you are letting DVD2SVCD send into CCE. This can and will be adjusted lower automatically if DVD2SVCD sees that it needs to make the video bitrate lower to have it fit the file size and number of cd's you have selected. It will not send any number higher then this into CCE as the AVG setting. Best to leave at default or at least 120 below that of the Max Setting.

Min AVG=Unsure what this does anymore. Leave it unchecked.

Min=The lowest the bitate is allowed to go in very low bitrate scenes. Keep this above 300 to avoid potential problems with some DVD players.


Hope this clarifies things for you,
Mark

[machura]

to Mozart: I was place it here, but I see, there is nothing. I'll send new.

to Markrb:
I'm using OnePass VBR, because I'm still trying. When I know more, I'll using 4PASS, but now it is so much time...

About bitrate:

1) I leave all bitrate as Default, program see, how is movie long and then set number of CD and count average bitrate for this CDs?

It is some as: lenght = frames / 25
if ( lenght >= 0 && lenght < 50) then 1CD74
if ( lenght >= 50 && lenght < 76) then 1CD80
if ( lenght >= 76 && lenght < 100) then 2CD74
if ( lenght >= 100 && lenght < 125) then 2CD80
if ( lenght >= 125 && lenght < 163) then 2CD80
...

=> my lenght = 116mins is from <100-125) => automaticaly are 2CD80min and DVD2SVCD count average bitrate itself, ok ?

2) When I want f.eg. better video = I want use 3CD, I must set both line with 2CD to lower lenght, than is my movie => program take line with 3CD, OK ?

Can You answer on my 1) 2) YES/NO please.


I think, this didnt work for me, when I tried DVD2SVCD in first time. I only set 122min to line with 2CD80 and result: lost minuts on end of movie. I'm trying once again.


3) Why is my RT on OnePass with Athlon XP 1800+ so low ? Only 0.5-0.6 ?

I'll send logfile, but there is still before cce.

[markrb]

1)You can change the time, CD size and the number of cd's to whatever you want.

Exmaple: Current default:
Between 0 and 50 mins. Use 1 CD Size 740 ?-1747

If I change the CD Size to 800
Between 0 and 50 mins. Use 1 CD Size 800 ?-1911

Anything in white can be changed.

2)You can either set the time so the number of cd's matches or you can set the number of cd's so the time matches.

Example: Default

Between 100 and 120 Mins. Use 2 CD Size 800 1911-1546

If I change the number of cd's

Between 100 and 120 Mins. Use 3 CD Size 800 3003-2457

Or If I change the time:

Between 80 and 100 Mins. Use 3 CD Size 800 3822-3003

The range in all cases is the Avg and will never go above the Max avg stated.

It's really not that hard take a little while and let it sink in.

Mark

[machura]

to Mozart: files are there http://rilanparty.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15414

[machura]

to Markrb:

!!! IS VERY, VERY HARD UNDERSTAND IT, WHEN IT STILL DOESN'T WORKS !!!

My movie is 116 mins. I leave bitrate as default! Yes, I got 2CD.

bbMPEG_muxed_File00.mpg file displaying: 58:07
bbMPEG_muxed_File01.mpg file displaying: 47:51
----------------------------------------------
106:58 - 2s overlap

WHERE IS 10mins from end of my movie ?!?!?!

When I tried in bitrate for my 2 audio 192kb and 116mins, there was result 1485. Why program use for CC* 1494 ?!!! => both CD are full, but with bad Avg => was lost 10minuts of movie !!!
And is wasted 4,5h time - for one pass !!!


Here is the logfile:
--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 19:07:52
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.0.6 build 2 Pre 2
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 19:07:53
- Analyzing subtitles
--------------------------------------------------------
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x2A Language: Turkish
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x29 Language: Portugues
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x28 Language: Polish
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x27 Language: Magyar
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x25 Language: Hebrew
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x24 Language: Greek
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x23 Language: Czech(Ceske)
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x22 Language: Bulgarian
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x21 Language: Arabic
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x26 Language: Hindi
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x20 Language: English

Executing subtitle selection/verification.
Subtitle selection/verification accepted.
--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 19:08:20
- Free on drive C: 6830.34 mb
- Extracting the subtitles.
--------------------------------------------------------

Subtitle extraction finished. Extracted these subtitles:
SVCD Stream no: 1 Language: Czech(Ceske) Num. of subs: 891

Saving Subtitles
--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 19:18:14
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -IA=1 -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[C:\2SVCD\Movie\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[D:\_DVD\TaD\vts_01_1.vob,D:\_DVD\TaD\vts_01_2.vob,D:\_DVD\TaD\vts_01_3.vob,D:\_DVD\TaD\vts_01_4.vob,D:\_DVD\TaD\vts_01_5.vob]
Framerate: 25000
Saving Subtitle Timecodes.
Permanent subtitles.
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 19:22:59
- Free on drive C: 6830.34 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x81
Filename: C:\2SVCD\Movie\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: C:\2SVCD\Movie\Extracted_audio_2.ac3
Audio1 delay: 0 ms
Audio2 delay: 0 ms
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 19:29:59
- Free on drive C: 6461.36 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Converting Audio to MP2. Filename: C:\2SVCD\Movie\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"C:\2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "C:\2SVCD\Movie\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "C:\2SVCD\MOVIE\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" ) -azid( -c normal -g max -L -3db ) -ota( -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s )
Audio conversion of C:\2SVCD\Movie\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.


Converting Audio to MP2. Filename: C:\2SVCD\Movie\Extracted_audio_2.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"C:\2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "C:\2SVCD\Movie\Extracted_audio_2.ac3" -output "C:\2SVCD\MOVIE\Encoded_audio_2.mp2" ) -azid( -c normal -g max -L -3db ) -ota( -g max ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s )
Audio conversion of C:\2SVCD\Movie\Extracted_audio_2.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 20:06:20
- Free on drive C: 6514.88 mb
- Converting Pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
Converting: C:\2SVCD\DefaultTitlepicture.bmp
Converting: C:\2SVCD\DefaultChangeCD.bmp
Finished converting pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 20:06:27
- Free on drive C: 6512.47 mb
- Video Encoding
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 1665085576
AudioSectors: 335915608
VideoPAPO: 20589552
ScanOffsetBytes: 259083
SeqAligningBytes: 16466164
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 600.00
PureMPEGStream: 1291855161.00
Seconds: 6904.88
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 172722
Anti Noise Filter: 2
Passes: 4
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: One Pass VBR
Q. Factor: 5
Min. bitrate: 300
Max. bitrate: 1494
Closing program
Video Encoding finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 22:59:17
- Free on drive C: 7924.92 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "C:\2SVCD\Movie\TitlePicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 22:59:20
- Free on drive C: 7924.84 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "C:\2SVCD\Movie\ChangeCDPicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 22:59:23
- Free on drive C: 7924.78 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 2
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 795 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "C:\2SVCD\Movie\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Length of C:\2SVCD\Movie\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
3485 Seconds
Offset in Seconds: 3487
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 795 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "C:\2SVCD\Movie\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 23:12:38
- Free on drive C: 6330.06 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: C:\2SVCD\Movie\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
3487.440 seconds C:\2SVCD\Movie\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
Analyzing: C:\2SVCD\Movie\bbMPEG_Muxed_File01.mpg
2871.360 seconds C:\2SVCD\Movie\bbMPEG_Muxed_File01.mpg
Analyzing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 23:14:14
- Free on drive C: 6330.06 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 18

CD image #1: CD_Image_File_CD1.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"C:\2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --cue-file="C:\2SVCD\Movie\CD_Image_File_CD1.cue" --bin-file="C:\2SVCD\Movie\CD_Image_File_CD1.bin" "C:\2SVCD\Movie\VCDXBuild_Script_1.xml"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 23:18:39
- Free on drive C: 6344.59 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 10

CD image #2: CD_Image_File_CD2.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"C:\2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --cue-file="C:\2SVCD\Movie\CD_Image_File_CD2.cue" --bin-file="C:\2SVCD\Movie\CD_Image_File_CD2.bin" "C:\2SVCD\Movie\VCDXBuild_Script_2.xml"
CD-Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 30.1.2002 23:23:12
- Free on drive C: 6283.38 mb
- SVCD Creation finished!
--------------------------------------------------------

I think, in bitrate I count aver. bitrate for mins and type of CD and this must be set to Max Avg !

[Mozart]

Well, I would like to help you, and I do know some procedures that probably could fix your problem. However, I don't like when someone comes to here without netiquette skills... So, next time, be more polite, don't use CAP letters, and don't use exclamation marks. Capisco?

[machura]

Excuse me. My engliss is not so well =>some can be bad known.

About exclamation marks: still everybody told - it is easy, that I have bad seting ... etc ... and I spend more time for nothing. After a lots of time still same result ...

[Kedirekin]

Hmmmmm... I'll withhold my comments.

@machara, I think the problem is that you are doing two audio tracks and some versions of DVD2SVCD calculate the bitrate wrong with two audio streams. And, compounding the problem, when DVD2SVCD uses BBMpg for the muxing for the last CD, it uses the CD size, so instead of getting an extra large CD image, you get an image that truncates the end of the movie. To be honest, I don't recall if 1.0.6 build 2 pre 2 was one of the versions that had this bug, but it sure seems to be the problem here.

Now before you get upset with the program, remember that it is in rapid development and bugs are bound to crop up, and remember that it didn't cost you anything. Take ten deep breaths and really think hard about whether you want to vent any frustration here - the comunity probably won't appreciate it.

To fix your problem will probably require starting the encode again from the beginning. If you're intent on using two audio streams, you definately want to switch to a version of DVD2SVCD that doesn't have this bug (can anyone recommend which version that might be? I honestly don't know).

If you're crafty, you may be able to re-encode the audio to a lower bitrate, increase the CD size slightly, and use crash recovery to get the whole movie without redoing it from the start. There are too many options to just start recommending things randomly. Let us know what type of recovery you might be interested in.

[machura]

Excuse me. I have very bad connection to this forum. Some time pages don't exist (2-3hours) etc... , sometime is my message added 2x and then I must edit it ( as this message... )

I tried 1.6.0 build 1 and 1.0.6 build 2 pre 2. Same problem.