Good programme to decrypt DVDs to save on HD

[avz10]

What is a good programme to save DVDs to a hard drive? I have an external hard drive of 1 TB

Decrypting is not an isue- I use DVD Fab 6, but should I save the DVD as a VideoTS file or convert to ISO?

I have a number of programmes- Clone DVD; DVD fab 6, DVD Shrink, DVD decrypter, etc.

So two questions
1. In what format should I back up
2. With what programme?

[kurkosdr]

Decrypting is not an isue- I use DVD Fab 6, but should I save the DVD as a VideoTS file or convert to ISO?
I say keep it as a VIDEO_TS folder. An ISO file is a file that contains the aforementioned VIDEO_TS folder, along with all the other structure of the disc, which makes it hard to use for harddisk playback. Most programs can't see through the ISO.

1. In what format should I back up
-If you want to make a look-alike copy of the DVD, then keep the files as they are. Double click on the VIDEO_TS.VOB file to play. Then, if you want, you use Nero (for 8.5GB dvds) or DVD Shrink (to compress the content on 4.7GB dvds) to burn the files on a blank DVD, in case you want to

-If you want it for PC playback, and want to reduce size, then go for MKV H.264

-If you have a Divx capable DVD player, and want to reduce size, then go for Divx avi

[Swin]

-If you want it for PC playback, and want to reduce size, then go for MKV H.264


A long time ago I asked a question regarding this - Is it possible to back up a DVD to a HDD whilst compressing it using H.264 in a MKV container, BUT keeping the original format of a DVD - i.e. menus, additional features, commentaries etc.

I was never sure if I got an plausible answer. Is this possible, and if so is there a tool(s) that can accomplish this?

[Swin]

Actually, to answer my own question, looks like Mike Chen has now produced a program called MakeMKV (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144611) that would appear to do the job.

I did say that I asked the question a very long time ago - and as I haven't needed to do this also for a very long time, I havn't been around here for a while.

[Swin]

Sorry, scrub that. Still looks like menus aren't fully supported.

[kurkosdr]

Sorry, scrub that. Still looks like menus aren't fully supported.

I am starting to think that menus in MKVs was a marketing scam by CoreCodec. The people behind Matroska have openly admitted they hate menus, so it's plausible that they don't have any intention of bringing menus to MKV. They only promised it so that mkv will gain an advantage over mp4 ("our mkv has all the features mp4 offers and it's open, yay").

I mean, the guys at DVD forum managed to implement menus using ordinary MPEG-PS. The guys at Divx Inc managed to kludge up some menus in avi files within months!

And you are telling me that Corecodec, after all these years, they weren't able to add some menus in their own -much more flexible- format, despite the fact they own the damn format and everything is open?

Yeah right.

[Ghitulescu]

Why one need menus in MKV?

[kurkosdr]

Why one need menus in MKV?

To make 1:1 backups from DVDs, I guess, or to insert audio commentaries which will be easily accessible.


Many people hate menus, because their features get grossly abused by studios and distributors (for example, why should a menu fade out every time you click play movie? And why it needs to launch before the movie? Make the movie play first and the menu can be accessed later by the menu button).

However, if you are a video enthusiast, you can make awesome things like insert audio commentaries for your videos, insert easter eggs by using seamless branching, and insert extras.

[Swin]

Why one need menus in MKV?

As kurkosdr said. I realise you could simply rip all the individual features and have them as seaperate MKVs, but i think it looks nicer if there is just one file that you can navgate whilst it runs.

Think wife!

[Ghitulescu]

To make 1:1 backups from DVDs, I guess, or to insert audio commentaries which will be easily accessible.


Many people hate menus, because their features get grossly abused by studios and distributors (for example, why should a menu fade out every time you click play movie? And why it needs to launch before the movie? Make the movie play first and the menu can be accessed later by the menu button).

However, if you are a video enthusiast, you can make awesome things like insert audio commentaries for your videos, insert easter eggs by using seamless branching, and insert extras.

You have already a container/format for that ISO/DVD, which is generally well accepted by standalones. Its not a criticism towards the MKV, no no, just a remark.

As kurkosdr said. I realise you could simply rip all the individual features and have them as seaperate MKVs, but i think it looks nicer if there is just one file that you can navgate whilst it runs.

Think wife!

I'm thinking :p, so imagine what she would do when the standalone missinterprets the menu due to programming errors, programming shortcuts, various implementations as menus are not standard for MKV and so on.

Maybe I'm "outdated" but I still believe in a well-done simple job than in a all-in-one thing that does everything but incomplete, erroneous or simply defective.

I see the things from the a different perspective: many (most??) people still prefer to watch movies or listen music on PC. I don't. I see the PC as a production/creation tool and not as a player.

[Swin]

You have already a container/format for that ISO/DVD, which is generally well accepted by standalones. Its not a criticism towards the MKV, no no, just a remark.

......

I'm thinking :p, so imagine what she would do when the standalone missinterprets the menu due to programming errors, programming shortcuts, various implementations as menus are not standard for MKV and so on.

Maybe I'm "outdated" but I still believe in a well-done simple job than in a all-in-one thing that does everything but incomplete, erroneous or simply defective.

I see the things from the a different perspective: many (most??) people still prefer to watch movies or listen music on PC. I don't. I see the PC as a production/creation tool and not as a player.

Thanks Ghitulescu. I don't think your outdated or that your comments are criticisms. Don't get me wrong either, I understand that the DVD structure does what it does, and does it well.

I have simply been looking for a way to do a similar thing to a DVD yet be able to utilise H.264 video compression (or similar) within the container. Both Matroska and MP4 do this well, and Matroska has for years preported that menus are something that it could handle, but it has never really come to any fruition.

Being able to create a full backup of a DVD that include all menus and features, yet utilise modern CODECS, has long been something I think would go down very well.

[kurkosdr]

I have simply been looking for a way to do a similar thing to a DVD yet be able to utilise H.264 video compression (or similar) within the container. Both Matroska and MP4 do this well, and Matroska has for years preported that menus are something that it could handle, but it has never really come to any fruition.

You pretty much nailed it.

Menus are a neat convenience if you are a video enthusiast and want to make your home vids look good and professional. Or if you just want to make backups of DVDs.

And here is the problem:
-If I want to make home vids with menus using mpeg 2, I will go for .vob
-If I want to make home vids with menus using mpeg 4 asp, I will go for .divx
-If I want to make home vids with menus using mpeg 4 avc, I could go for mp4, but standalone compatibility is headed towards mkv, and mkv should support menus but for some reason it doesn't, they promised it years ago but for some reason it doesn't.... arrrghhhh!

I am convinced that the guys behind matroska do NOT want menus in MKVs. Otherwise, the format is so flexible that they could implement this feature in matter of months! And then standarize it to avoid problems. And in the case MKVs can't have menus, then scrap this lame container and replace it with something that does!

Man, I hate open source. Their products are intended mainly towards nerds. They can't produce something normal users can benefit from.

Don't you think there is a reason Divx (the company) cancelled open mayo? It's because the people behind it had started screwing the project with incompatible with the mpeg 4 asp standards. Good thing Divx Inc cancelled it.

Again, I am looking forward for some company to take over MKV (Divx+HD anyone?) and then watch those people whine about their project being forked into a proprietary project or something.

[Ghitulescu]

Yes, some of your concerns are indeed valid: open source means that anyone can modify the project, which leads indeed to a sort of anarchy. I struggle myself with Ubuntu, but despite much more deeply problems (and really really serious) I still consider that the open source alternative is better than what the companies give you (see 2 § below).

On the other hands, Windows is not so coherent, not even among the same family (XP Home, Premium, Professional etc.). The network subsystem is completely different from Home to Pro. Plus come all the SPs ... it's probably a nightmare for their support staff ...

Supposingly there were no ProjectX, now what? Is there any commercial MPEG-2 cutter/demuxer/remuxer that can cut a file keeping all the substreams in? Everything that was in my financial power would keep one audio only and the video. No subtitles, no secondary audio, no teletext. PjX was the magic word for anyone interested in DVB -> DVD conversion.

[kurkosdr]

I still consider that the open source alternative is better than what the companies give you (see 2 § below).

Indeed, open source software tends to be good. At least it crashes less often than some proprietary programs and allows a bit more control to the procedure.

However, opensource formats suck.

The guys behing the development always seem to aim for the minimum denominator. Take for example Theora and Ogg. It's already obsolete and outdated. And once the format gets "frozen", you can't change it.

The exact same happened with MKV. I can imagine the conversation:

-"Guys, we need a format that will be able to handle movies, with chapters, language tracks and the like."
-"Nice, what else?"
-"Nothing."
-"Nothing?"
-"Yeah you heard me, nothing! All these menus are useless junk proprietary companies throw in to wow the customers"
-"But customers want menus. I want menus!"
-"Ok, we 'll implement it some time in the future, it's not like these users are paying us and we need to rush or something"
-"Ok..."

So, here you get it, the MKV format was implemented without menus. But hey, they will be implemented "some time in the future". I don't demand support for BD-J and other stuff that came after MKV, but developing a format that is substandard even at the time of release (menus existed before mkv) is not the way to go, obvioulsy

[Ghitulescu]

This is my last observation for this offtopic subject-matter:

Standards are there to be fixed in time. Changing standards brings chaos. It's like programming interfaces, you cannot change a function (number of parameters) and expect that every call of it would be ok.

Think of the already existing standalones that read MKV, how would they interpret the menus? What if the support ceased meanwhile (out-of-cycle product), so no more FW updates? How can a project manager would design a firmware if the specs are changing in time?

What if the gas stations would pump diesel instead of gasoline?

MKV was designed to circumvent the limitations of AVI. If one needs extra maybe it's the time for a new format.

So, I have a movie and some extras. I simply mux each thing into an MKV or whatever, put all of them in the same folder, and use the built-in menu of the device.

[Swin]

I though MKV was supposed to be an extensible standard, meaning that it could be expanded upon with ease. This would mean that new features would simply be ignored by older systems, in a similar fashion to how other extensible formats work.

[neuron2]

Guys, all this discussion of MKV is off topic for this thread. Please stay on topic.

[osgZach]

Regarding saving to ISO versus Video_TS I think its moot. The playback issue is a non-issue as long as you have a virtual Drive to mount the ISO's on. Alcohol 120% has this option, as well as many others I'm sure. Mount the ISO, play it from the virtual drive in POwerDVD / Windows Media Player / whatever.

But ISO should be fine. Also, DVD Decrypter is pretty old. But also should not be overlooked. Sometimes it can do discs other stuff can't.

[hatetea58]

DVDFabDecrypter
Save VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders inside another folder named after the movie.
DONE