L5.1 on ATI cards research thread

[tetsuo55]

Some time ago rumors emerged that some XP users have been able to "trick" ATI cards into flawless playback of 5.1 content.

It's time we do something with these rumors and find out if its really possible, and if so how to reproduce it.

With this information Team MPC-HC will be able to natively support L5.1 and maybe even bring it to vista/7.

As a starting point i give you this blogpost:
http://zachsaw.blogspot.com/2009/08/watching-hd-video-in-mpc-hc-dxva-for.html

[mariush]

If you give me a test movie I'm willing to do tests, I don't have any sample that I know for sure it's L5.1 and with all the specs mentioned in that blog.

ATI 4850/512 MB original oem design, windows 2003 here (acts pretty much like windows xp as functionality goes)...

[tetsuo55]

Here is a sample with 16 reference frames

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CSJZCJU0

[edigee]

Some time ago rumors emerged that some XP users have been able to "trick" ATI cards into flawless playback of 5.1 content.

It's time we do something with these rumors and find out if its really possible, and if so how to reproduce it.

With this information Team MPC-HC will be able to natively support L5.1 and maybe even bring it to vista/7.

As a starting point i give you this blogpost:
http://zachsaw.blogspot.com/2009/08/watching-hd-video-in-mpc-hc-dxva-for.html

Can you specify the limits for DXVA compatibility in MPC_HC (with "no check" -DXVA compatibility in MPC decoder) for ATI cards ? I mean from users reports and from your experience. Also the UVD type(UVD, UVD+, UVD2 and UVD2.2).
For me ,with HD3650AGP(UVD+) ,AGP hotfix 10.2, Vista 32bit MPC_HC latest build(1694) ,EVR Sync renderer, Sync video to display it goes something like that:
Limits:
H264 ,720p ,2.35:1 aspect/ratio ,L@5.1 prof. ,12 ref.frames .Above that specifications 720p videos play with artifacts.
H264 ,1080p,2.35:1 aspect/ratio ,L@5.1 ,5or6 ref.frames.
Same video with 16/9 format(1980x1080) won't play properly in DXVA mode in MPC_HC.
So i guess not the L@5.1 profile is the issue( unless Mediainfo is wrong in reading file's header) but the number of ref. frames and the aspect ratio. I will come back with more observations later.

Edit: My son runs a HD2600XT AGP on XP-SP3 and the limits are the same.

[tetsuo55]

Can you specify the limits for DXVA compatibility in MPC_HC (with "no check" -DXVA compatibility in MPC decoder) for ATI cards ? I mean from users reports and from your experience. Also the UVD type(UVD, UVD+, UVD2 and UVD2.2).
For me ,with HD3650AGP(UVD+) ,AGP hotfix 10.2, Vista 32bit MPC_HC latest build(1694) ,EVR Sync renderer, Sync video to display it goes something like that:
Limits:
H264 ,720p ,2.35:1 aspect/ratio ,L@5.1 prof. ,12 ref.frames .Above that specifications 720p videos play with artifacts.
H264 ,1080p,2.35:1 aspect/ratio ,L@5.1 ,5or6 ref.frames.
Same video with 16/9 format(1980x1080) won't play properly in DXVA mode in MPC_HC.
So i guess not the L@5.1 profile is the issue( unless Mediainfo is wrong in reading file's header) but the number of ref. frames and the aspect ratio. I will come back with more observations later.

Edit: My son runs a HD2600XT AGP on XP-SP3 and the limits are the same.

The encoder/muxer can put any random value in the level section, and by default x264 fills in L5.1.

The problem is the number of ref frames and the use of b-pyramids.

rule of the thumb:
1280x720 = 9 ref frames
1920x1080 = 4 ref frames

[sneaker_ger]

The encoder/muxer can put any random value in the level section, and by default x264 fills in L5.1.

Not true, x264 will try to estimate the level according to input and settings.

[tetsuo55]

Not true, x264 will try to estimate the level according to input and settings.Nice! I did not know that got fixed, thanks for the update

[Underground78]

Some time ago rumors emerged that some XP users have been able to "trick" ATI cards into flawless playback of 5.1 content.

But it does only work with specific UVD types, "classic" UVD (of HD2600 for example) does not permit this according to my tests ...

[DGMurdockIII]

you sold try the media player splash http://mirillis.com/splash.html

[edigee]

you sold try the media player splash http://mirillis.com/splash.html

Most of us used it since it first came out , at the end of last year. There is also a thread here about Splash. It has the same behaviour with ATI cards as the others DXVA decoders. Almost the same limitations on playing L@5.1 profile videos with higher number of ref.frames. The good thing is that Splash automaticly switches to software decoding when it fails to play a file in DXVA mode(at least the last versions)

[namaiki]

How is L5.1 on ATi with the Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder? (can use DXVA, just make sure VSFilter is not there (use MPC-HC's internal subtitle filter if you need subtitles) and EVR-Custom/EVR as video renderer still applies) I found it does miracles for the Intel 4500MHD.

[tetsuo55]

The leaked catalyst 10.5 beta supports L5.1 files to some degree, please test and confirm.

Many files work now on my system that did not before, but some still hang.

[CiNcH]

The leaked catalyst 10.5 beta supports L5.1 files to some degree, please test and confirm.
Do you mean driver package '8.73-100316a-097167E-ATI'? Just installed it on Win7 for my HD 3650 with UVD+. I played the famous 'Quantum of Solace' trailer with 9 reference frames @ 1080p. A lot of blocking with DXVA being used. I did not try to apply any trick...

[CiNcH]

Same with 8.74.

[tetsuo55]

I mean 8.74.

From what i read so far 5.1 only appears to be supported on HD4xxx and up.

[peek]

Confirmed !
On my HD 3450 there are indeed a few improvements for L5.x but still a lot of corruption and macro blocking remains. Unfortunately, my L5.x tricks don't work anymore with these new drivers.

[CiNcH]

I now did a direct comparison with drivers and things indeed improved big time with my HD 3650. With 10.3, the Quantum of Solace trailer is unwatchable. With the 8.74 package, it is much better, but still a lot of blocking as already mentioned.

[littleD]

That (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WH2U3WZG) one is not recommended for 3450 AGP. My system booted only once after installing them. After second and any other boot only black screen and constant HDD read. Ill wait for official ones. But there may be problem with my system too.

[edigee]

That (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WH2U3WZG) one is not recommended for 3450 AGP. My system booted only once after installing them. After second and any other boot only black screen and constant HDD read. Ill wait for official ones. But there may be problem with my system too.

Only this one:
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=319691
works for ATI AGP HD2xxx and HD3xxx cards.
And it's newer(8.74)

[tetsuo55]

I reverted too due to the black screen thing

[onomatopellan]

Tried the 7.4 ATI drivers on Win7 and I still can't watch L5.1 videos. Even worse I can't use any 'trick' that worked for me anymore. :(

That (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WH2U3WZG) one is not recommended for 3450 AGP. My system booted only once after installing them. After second and any other boot only black screen and constant HDD read. Ill wait for official ones. But there may be problem with my system too.
I had this problem too and it was an incompatibility with the motherboard that can't output hdmi sound through AGP port. (it's an Abit NF7-S, too old)
You have to disable in device Manager "Microsoft UUAA HD Audio" or something like that and it should boot ok again.

[littleD]

Wow, nice find.. i have also nforce-2 based motherboard. And installed UAA HD much earlier too, because i thought its the case of problems with hdmi audio.. my naiveness..
Maybe ill try now the ones edigee suggested.

[sillKotscha]

Here is a sample with 16 reference frames

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CSJZCJU0

never had the chance to test it ... could you possibly re-up this sample, please. Thank you

[tetsuo55]

I don't have it anymore :(

[edigee]

That one?

Quantum of Solace HD H264 L5.1 9 Reframes Trailer
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1907430/test_hd_9refs_high_l5.1.mp4

[buzzqw]

which one sample ?

i have lots of sample

BHH

[edigee]

1080p h264 L@5 or higher profile ,no. of ref.frames >8
720p h264 L@5.1 prof. ,no. of ref.frames > 12 or13
This stuff is tricky for ATI cards to decode(DXVA).

[littleD]

Hmm weird. All the dxva tricks always worked very well on my card, but after intall non whql drivers, i cant play any file with hardware acceleration. I see improvements in opengl part of drivers though. I get 3.3 Ogl ver. but pre 2.0 is somehow buggy.

[Mr Alpha]

In the Release notes of Catalyst 10.4: ATI Catalyst – Video enhancements
H.264 Level 5.1 support

ATI Catalyst™ can now playback 5.1 level streams on all supported players
Allows for playback of high resolutions (4Kx2K)

[HowlerX]

Using ATI Radeon 4650, the Quantum of Solace sample doesn't work with Catalyst 10.4. Well I can get it to play, but with artifacts.

[mariush]

The 10.4 driver is bad. Lots of artifacts on videos that worked good with 10.2, at least on my system... and it happens with SD content too. See this thread where i posted SD samples which now have artifacts: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154264

It appears to me SD content with >= 8 reference frames cause artifacts but it's very weird because some videos with 16 reference frames play and they have the same resolution and frame rate otherwise and other samples with only 5 reference frames don't even work with dxva at all.

[edigee]

Using ATI Radeon 4650, the Quantum of Solace sample doesn't work with Catalyst 10.4. Well I can get it to play, but with artifacts.

Same for me(HD 3650) ,but with the previous drivers that sample didn't work at all with DXVA ,unless I ticked the "no check" for compatibility in MPC-HC H264 decoder. With this option(no check) the artifacts were much more present than with the 10.4 drivers.

@mariush:
There is a problem with the latest ATI drivers and some SD H264 video content. That's why they added in the latest builds of MPC_HC the option for disable DXVA for SD content.

[ajp_anton]

Everything works fine here, both with UVD2 (HD4850) and UVD+ (integrated HD3300, as long as there is enough graphics memory).
All the way from SD to 1080p 16refs.

[edigee]

Everything works fine here, both with UVD2 (HD4850) and UVD+ (integrated HD3300, as long as there is enough graphics memory).
All the way from SD to 1080p 16refs.

Integrated HD3300 is UVD2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder
See the tab below.

[ajp_anton]

Integrated HD3300 is UVD2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder
See the tab below.
The wiki page is changed since I last checked. But I'm pretty sure the 790GX has UVD+, I remember that was kinda the big point in the newer 785G because it introduced UVD2. That's also why the 785G has 4000-series graphics, even though it was pretty much identical to the old 3000-series. It had UVD2, which only exists on 4000 and newer.