DXVA for H264 ok but no support for VC1

[rumpumpel1]

I have an Acer notebook model Aspire 1810TZ. It
has chipset grahics (Mobile Intel 4 Series Express)
and an Intel U4100 CPU with 2 x 1.3 GHz and it runs
Windows7 X64.
My goal is to watch HD-movies in 1080p which are
H264 or VC1 coded (Blu-Ray rips).
After doing some experiments with vlc, Nero8, WMP12
I ended up using MPC Home Cinema. Almost everything
works so far, even the PGS subtitles.
After following the instructions on the MPC Help Page
(newest driver, newest DirectX, etc) I can play all
H264 movies (AC3 and DTS) flawlessly using DXVA at
about 20% - 30% CPU load.
The problem are VC-1 movies. Thy do not use DXVA and
are constantly dropping frames. According to the
DXVAChecker there is support for VC1_MoComp and
VC1_IDCT but not for VC1_VLD.
So my question is: why there is no support for
VC1_VLD and what can I do to utilize DXVA for VC1 ?

[roozhou]

Try PotPlayer or system's WMV decoder. They support MoComp and idct level acceleration for VC1 while MPC-HC only supports bitstream DXVA. However the bitstream decoding and idct phase will be done by CPU w/o multi-threading. You may still end up with frame dropping since your CPU is only 1.3GHz.

My laptop is 2x1.8G AMD K8 + NV 6150 Go which supports MoComp level acceleration for VC1/WMV9. If the bitrate goes above 30Mbps it begins to drop frames.

[rumpumpel1]

Try PotPlayer ......

strange player, at least with the trial version I couldn't manage to play any video file.

[roozhou]

strange player, at least with the trial version I couldn't manage to play any video file.
There is no "trial version" because PotPlayer is free.

[edigee]

There is no "trial version" because PotPlayer is free.

Try to add external filters to MPC-HC which can decode VC1 content in DXVA mode. Cyberlink H264 and VC1 PDVD8 or Cyberlink "allinone" decoder PDVD9 are some examples. The 2nd one you can get it fom the latest HDPack 2.2 or 2.3. (note: If you already have a version of Power DVD running on your computer use HD Pack 2.2 -not 2.3!)
http://www.dvbsupport.net/download/index.php?act=view&id=162
http://www.skystar.org/comment.php?dlid=4268
Edit: from HD Pack 2.2 or 2.3 you can get only the specific decoder you're interested ,don't tick the other stuff from there.

[namaiki]

Try the Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder. I'm not sure if it supports VC-1, though I find it is good for H.264 DXVA on the Intel Graphics Processors.

[rumpumpel1]

thanks for all the answers.
As I learned yesterday, my chipset GM45 does not support Varibale Length Decode for VC-1. See here:
http://imouto.my/watching-h264-videos-using-dxva/

[Grendel007]

As I learned yesterday, my chipset GM45 does not support Varibale Length Decode for VC-1. See here:
http://imouto.my/watching-h264-videos-using-dxva/

This is not true.
I have been experiencing similar problem. Look at this chart:
http://www.intel.com/technology/graphics/gma.htm?iid=tech_graphics+gma
there’s no doubt that it supports.

I have been desperately trying to play 1080p mkv movie encoded in VC-1 in MPC HC but the picture stutters.
On MPC there is no info of “DXVA playing” (it is lost) so maybe it is the reason.

When I play 1080p mkv movies encoded x264 with DXVA no problems with them.

How can I offload the processor or/and enable DXVA while playing mkv in MPC HC??
I have tried Coreavc professional codec but to no effect.(While playing the processor usage is about 75-85%)

I have a notebook with Dual Core 2.1 GHz (T4300) and Intel 4500 HD (integrated) with 2 GB RAM Vista 32 Business

I have tried cyberlink codecs (x264 and Vc-1) But during playing in filters I can only see cyberlink x264, there is no vc-1 cyberlink filter.
The problem may be in Intel’s drivers.

If I cannot enable dxva, How can I offload the processor?What codecs or/and players do you recommend?

P.S. @rumpumpel1 What directx version and what intel driver have you got?
Can you play this sample smoothly http://www.bigandfree.com/12127741/Planet_Earth_From_Pole_to_Pole_1080p_sample.mkv.html

I will greatly appreciate any help

[Grendel007]

@rumpumpel1
I have just found a player that possilbly can be a remedy to all our problems.

It is called Splash player . Now there is only one version available Splash lite. It is seems to resolve DXVA related problems for owners of Intel integrated HD cards.

Before this player I wasn’t able to enable GPU (DXVA) support while playing one mkv file on MPC HC now with Splash DXVA is visible!!!

Could please test this file on MPC HC and later on Splash and tell me hot it plays

http://www.bigandfree.com/12127741/Planet_Earth_From_Pole_to_Pole_1080p_sample.mkv.html


I look forward to your reply

[ranpha]

@rumpumpel1
I have just found a player that possilbly can be a remedy to all our problems.

It is called Splash player . Now there is only one version available Splash lite. It is seems to resolve DXVA related problems for owners of Intel integrated HD cards.

Before this player I wasn’t able to enable GPU (DXVA) support while playing one mkv file on MPC HC now with Splash DXVA is visible!!!

Could please test this file on MPC HC and later on Splash and tell me hot it plays

http://www.bigandfree.com/12127741/Planet_Earth_From_Pole_to_Pole_1080p_sample.mkv.html


I look forward to your reply

That file plays well on a G45 laptop when I tested it some time back. In fact, all the videos I link at http://wp.me/PrgSo-2n should play well if the reference frame limitation is ignored. Of course, not all videos will play smoothly.

[rumpumpel1]

This is not true.
I have been experiencing similar problem. Look at this chart:
http://www.intel.com/technology/graphics/gma.htm?iid=tech_graphics+gma
there’s no doubt that it supports.
....

well Intel is not vey specific. The document says: full support for VC-1, but it does not specify, what full support means.
The G45 chipset supports the following profiles:
ModeH264_VLD
ModeH264_MoComp
ModeH264_IDCT
ModeVC1_MoComp
ModeVC1_IDC
So the profile ModeVC1_VLD is missing and MPC currently only supports the VLD profile for DXVA. So with this chipset and with MPC there is no DXVA support for VC-1. According to the link above the same is true for the Clarkdale/Arrandale chipset.
The table given here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA is wrong. It seems to reflect what Intel planned to do and here we see what Intel managed to do.
Conclusion: watching HD-videos with a notebook having a small CPU can be done using NVidia or ATI graphics chips, but avoid Intel GPUs.

[rumpumpel1]

@rumpumpel1
I have just found a player that possilbly can be a remedy to all our problems.

It is called Splash player . Now there is only one version available Splash lite. It is seems to resolve DXVA related problems for owners of Intel integrated HD cards.

Before this player I wasn’t able to enable GPU (DXVA) support while playing one mkv file on MPC HC now with Splash DXVA is visible!!!

Could please test this file on MPC HC and later on Splash and tell me hot it plays

http://www.bigandfree.com/12127741/Planet_Earth_From_Pole_to_Pole_1080p_sample.mkv.html


I look forward to your reply



I tried to install this splash player. It says "Installing C++ runtime libraries" and then my notebook freezes.

[roozhou]

@rumpumpel1
Why don't you use MS's built-in WMVideo Decoder DMO for VC1 decoing? Just turn off MPC-HC's internal VC1 decoder(both DXVA and software) and it will work.
I also tested ArcSoft's partial acceleration on nVidia Card. It works but with lots of artifact.

And remember NONE of libavcodec based decoder will work on your card. This includes Splash player.

[rumpumpel1]

Try to add external filters to MPC-HC which can decode VC1 content in DXVA mode. Cyberlink H264 and VC1 PDVD8 or Cyberlink "allinone" decoder PDVD9 are some examples. The 2nd one you can get it fom the latest HDPack 2.2 or 2.3. (note: If you already have a version of Power DVD running on your computer use HD Pack 2.2 -not 2.3!)
http://www.dvbsupport.net/download/index.php?act=view&id=162
http://www.skystar.org/comment.php?dlid=4268
Edit: from HD Pack 2.2 or 2.3 you can get only the specific decoder you're interested ,don't tick the other stuff from there.

I installed PowerDVD9. On its start page it shows what DXVA profiles it found. It shows the same list as the DXVA Checker. An entry for VC1_VLD is missing. Consequently it plays a VC-1 HD-movie with the same CPU load as MPC (without DXVA support).
I have an Intel CPU U4100 2 x 1.3 GHz.
For VC-1 movies it runs at about 60%-80% load.
Scenes with high band-width are dropping frames and sometimes it starts stuttering.
AVC movies are running at 10% - 20% CPU load and they play smoothly.

[rumpumpel1]

@rumpumpel1
Why don't you use MS's built-in WMVideo Decoder DMO for VC1 decoing? Just turn off MPC-HC's internal VC1 decoder(both DXVA and software) and it will work.
I also tested ArcSoft's partial acceleration on nVidia Card. It works but with lots of artifact.

And remember NONE of libavcodec based decoder will work on your card. This includes Splash player.

that's my default configuration. But also the Microsoft codec can not support DXVA if the chipset/driver dos not support it.

[Grendel007]

I tried to install this splash player. It says "Installing C++ runtime libraries" and then my notebook freezes.

The player doesn't install. I have a version without installation. Well, it "installs" like MPC HC zip version

[rumpumpel1]

The player doesn't install. I have a version without installation. Well, it "installs" like MPC HC zip version

I downloaded the file for a second time and now I was able to install it. Probably the first time the file was broken. Upon startup a window pops up, which says: video hardware acceleration available. Very promising. But when playing my test-videos it turned out, that video acceleration is not used.
For VC-1 the CPU load was 60% - 70% as with MPC. For AVC it was even worse: 100% CPU and a framerate of 18fps. So no acceleration at all. Interesting also that during playback you can open an information window which gives you various technical info about the video, but no info about DXVA.
Hmm, may be with some future version ....

[namaiki]

Not that I like Splash Player, but did you enable hardware acceleration in the options?

[rumpumpel1]

Not that I like Splash Player, but did you enable hardware acceleration in the options?

Good point! So I checked this option and now AVC is much better: 10% - 20% CPU load as with MPC. But VC-1 still does not show any acceleration. So splash player shows the same result as MPC.
I'm pretty sure, that the chipset/driver has no support for the VC1_VDL profile. Maybe with a future driver version.

[roozhou]

Good point! So I checked this option and now AVC is much better: 10% - 20% CPU load as with MPC. But VC-1 still does not show any acceleration. So splash player shows the same result as MPC.
I'm pretty sure, that the chipset/driver has no support for the VC1_VDL profile. Maybe with a future driver version.
As I stated in the second post, you need a decoder/player that supports partial acceleration on VC1. But you wasted so much time testing on players and decoders supporting only vld acceleration. How can you enable DXVA using these decoders on a chip that does not have vld decoding? Future driver won't help because there is no chance that a chip has both partial and bitstream level acceleration.

You have the following choice:
1) MS WMVideo Decoder DMO (seems it fails)
2) PotPlayer's internal DXVA decoder.
3) ArcSoft's VC1 decoder

And again do not waste time testing any libavcodec based decoders/players. They will never work.

[Grendel007]

You have the following choice:
3) ArcSoft's VC1 decoder


I read somewhere that ArcSoft's TMT doesn't support mkv files any more. Is it true?

[namaiki]

Just use Haali Media Splitter or other.

[rumpumpel1]

As I stated in the second post, you need a decoder/player that supports partial acceleration on VC1. But you wasted so much time testing on players and decoders supporting only vld acceleration. How can you enable DXVA using these decoders on a chip that does not have vld decoding? Future driver won't help because there is no chance that a chip has both partial and bitstream level acceleration.

You have the following choice:
1) MS WMVideo Decoder DMO (seems it fails)
2) PotPlayer's internal DXVA decoder.
3) ArcSoft's VC1 decoder

And again do not waste time testing any libavcodec based decoders/players. They will never work.



I tested Pot Player. I always wanted to learn korean.
I configured to use always DXVA, to use VLD for AVC and IDCT for VC-1.
Playing an AVC-video there seems to be no acceleration at all, because the CPU load goes up to 90%, but at least it plays the video.

Playing an VC-1 video seems to use DXVA because the CPU load drops to 40% but unfortunately the screen remains black ... The same holds for MoComp.

Unless I've overseen one the numerous options, it's unusable. It says it is beta and so it is.

Next I'll try the arcsoft codec.

[rumpumpel1]

the best results I've ever seen so far is MediaTheatre from Arcsoft. Absolut smooth video for AVC and VC1 by <10% CPU load. But of course this costs $$.

[Grendel007]

the best results I've ever seen so far is MediaTheatre from Arcsoft. Absolut smooth video for AVC and VC1 by <10% CPU load. But of course this costs $$.

What player, codec are you refering to?

I read on arcsoft's forum that some problems appeared with compatibility of mkv files.

[edigee]

I read somewhere that ArcSoft's TMT doesn't support mkv files any more. Is it true?

With the latest patch(170) the mkv support is back :with the wellknown limitations-no subtitles for mkv files ,no support for multi audio on mkv files .

[rumpumpel1]

does anyone know, how the arcsoft codec can be used for MPC ?

[namaiki]

If you can find the name of the filter, you can add and set it as preferred under options-> external filters.

[edigee]

does anyone know, how the arcsoft codec can be used for MPC ?
You can't use the Arcsoft decoder out of the box from any Arcsoft player (TMT or TMT Extreme)!
You can only use it from Hd Pack 2.3 and 2.2:
http://www.dvbsupport.net/download/i...ct=view&id=162
http://www.skystar.org/comment.php?dlid=4268

You can add Arcsoft decoder from those ones .
Caution:The Arcsoft decoder comes with the Arcoft installer both in HD Pack 2.3 and 2.2 .If you already have any version of ArcSoft Total Media Theatre or Total media Extreme installed on your pc DON"T USE the HD pack because that 2nd Arcsoft installed would mess up the Arcsoft player already installed. If you don't have any Arcsoft player , you can use HD pack with no problems.

[rumpumpel1]

You can't use the Arcsoft decoder out of the box from any Arcsoft player (TMT or TMT Extreme)!
You can only use it from Hd Pack 2.3 and 2.2:
http://www.dvbsupport.net/download/i...ct=view&id=162
http://www.skystar.org/comment.php?dlid=4268

You can add Arcsoft decoder from those ones .
Caution:The Arcsoft decoder comes with the Arcoft installer both in HD Pack 2.3 and 2.2 .If you already have any version of ArcSoft Total Media Theatre or Total media Extreme installed on your pc DON"T USE the HD pack because that 2nd Arcsoft installed would mess up the Arcsoft player already installed. If you don't have any Arcsoft player , you can use HD pack with no problems.


I removed my Total Media Theatre installation before I installed HD Pack 2.3. It seems to do all necessary configuration in MPC-HC. But again I end up with playing a VC-1 coded video with 90% CPU load. Did I miss something ?

[rumpumpel1]

Finally I managed to reach my initial goal: having MPC Home Cinema playing all HD videos smoothly without stuttering on my Acer Timeline (Intel GPU: GMA 4500MHD) including all features like multiple audio and PGS-subtitle tracks (Blu-Ray).

Here is a short guide:
- install MPC-HomeCinema.1.3.1249.0.x86.exe
- install HDPack2.3.EXE out of the many codecs choose
only the Arcsoft video codec and nothing else
- the installation routine of the HD Pack configures the
MPC. Some of these configurations you have to revert.
Make sure you have set the following configuration options:
Options -> Output -> EVR Custom
Render Settings -> Presentation -> Enable Frame Time Correction
Render Settings -> VSync all off
External Filters -> ArcSoft Video Decoder preferred, you can safely remove all entries marked as not registered
External Filters -> WMV Video Decoder DMO blocked
Internal Filters all on except both H264 and VC-1

Keep in mind that for HD videos the selection of the audio track and the subtitle track is done via the context menu -> Filter -> last entry. It might take up to 30s until all subtitles show up.

The CPU load on my Timeline 1810TZ (U4100 2 x 1.3 GHz) when playing HD videos is about 20% and MPC always indicates that DXVA is used.

2010/04/07
Oh well, this HDPack2.3 is not what I expected: it stops working after 20 days. Re-installation helps (at least once).

2010/06/20
with HDPack2.4 this problem seems not to exist anymore.

[namaiki]

Render Settings -> VSync all off

^ You probably don't want to do that.

Aero on -> default renderer settings
Aero off -> optimal renderer settings

though you will have to enable frame time correction again.

[edigee]

Glad you have finally done it! But as namaiki says VSync all off means not a very smooth video playback. Plus , I don't think the VSync settings can harm in any way the DXVA. You also might try the EVR -Sync -it behaves the same way as EVR CP.

[rumpumpel1]

Render Settings -> VSync all off

^ You probably don't want to do that.

Aero on -> default renderer settings
Aero off -> optimal renderer settings

though you will have to enable frame time correction again.

I started with the default configuration but I noticed, that my test-video for VC-1 was totally out of sync. It was in sync again after I switched off all VSync options. Also the other test-videos were not affected by this.
I'll test it again tonight.

[Grendel007]

@rumpumpel1

Congratulations on your success with DXVA.

Could you please try and test this file wthether it plays smoothly and most importantly if it is with DXVA.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/530/mirrors.php

Please write the reply.

I have been following your posts. I have given up but maybe too early.

[rumpumpel1]

@rumpumpel1

Congratulations on your success with DXVA.

Could you please try and test this file wthether it plays smoothly and most importantly if it is with DXVA.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/530/mirrors.php

Please write the reply.

I have been following your posts. I have given up but maybe too early.



yes, it plays smoothley and MPC shows that DXVA is used.
CPU load is about 20%.

[Grendel007]

@rumpumpel1

I am about to achive your success!!!

I managed to enable DXVAsupport. However when I connect the notebook to the tv and the film is played on 1092x1080 at60Hz.

There are some very slight but (noticable splits of the picture)

The CPU load is VERY low 10-20% but...

What Can I do to eliminate these splits. There should be something about the settings. What else can change to eliminate this?

Help me! I am so close...

[namaiki]

First:
Aero on -> default renderer settings
Aero off -> optimal renderer settings


If no effect, try use the EVR renderer(not EVR-Custom) or Overlay.

[Grendel007]

Sorry to bother and ask you and excuse me my lamer's question.

What are default render settings and what are optimal renderer settings?

I am experimenting with the picture now and it seems that I am really really close.

However, UNLIKE you wrote earlier all the VSync all are ON at the moment on my MPC HC.

It seems to be working but I need some more tests. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

[namaiki]

They can both be found under: View-> Renderer Settings-> Reset.

The difference is that optimal renderer settings will disable aero if not already disabled and it will enable alternate vsync. vsync and accurate vsync are also enabled for both.

None of these options apply to 'EVR,' nor to 'Overlay.'

[Grendel007]

Strangely enough.
Everything seems to be perfect but...
I wanted to play this known sample
http://www.bigandfree.com/12127741/Planet_Earth_From_Pole_to_Pole_1080p_sample.mkv.html

but on the settings with arcsoft decoder

the picture stops there is info about dxva but the clip cannot be played. Only the audio is heard.

Can you help me with this?
What's the matter?

@rumpumpel1

Can you try this?

P.S
I eventually played this clip but I had to disable arcsoft and made a change with registry. Is this clip really so complicated to be played. Why arcsoft was't able to play it in dxva???

[Grendel007]

@rumpumpel1

Can you play this clip of Planet Earth with the arcsoft decoder?

[Grendel007]

I am very grateful for all the support I have received from all the users on this thread.

Particularly I would like to thank: rumpumpel1, namaiki, edigee

You wouldn’t believe but I was going to give back my recently bought (brand new notebook) because of the unresolved issue connected with Intel incompatibility.

You have been very helpful. THANK YOU VERY MUCH

[Grendel007]

I am still testing different mkv movies with the settings you recommend.

However, I encountered some problems with one file.

It is encoded in h264.

I tried to play in MPC HC with only arcosoft decoders and the settings above but...The picture stuttered.

CPU load was OK, DXVA enabled but the movie couldn't be played smoothly.

What makes things strange I blocked arcsoft decoders and played this film with enabled internal x264 decoders in MPC HC and it was almost flawless(there were just a few artifacts).

What's wrong with arcsoft x264 decoders?

What can I do about the settings of MPC HC and arcsoft decoder to play this film (x264) without stuttering.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[namaiki]

For stuttering, you can try enable or disable 'Frame Time Correction' under 'View-> Renderer Settings-> Presentation'.

[Grendel007]

Thank YOU namaiki for your advice.

Unfortunately, my problem is a bit complicated.

On the notebook screen and its resolution 1280x 800 the picture seems flawless.

However, when I connect my notebook to the tv and the output resolution is changed to the native of the tv 1920x1080 on the same settings of the MPC HC there appear either stuttering or tearing which so far I haven't been able to overcome.

What is it about???
Is it connected with different refresh rates? What refresh rate should on 1080p output from notebook from the card?

I will be very grateful for any answer.

[namaiki]

What's the graphics card, operating system, and is Aero enabled or disabled? Generally if you are using Vista/7 and your GFX is like worse than current gen integrated, you could try the EVR video renderer (does not apply if you need subtitles).

[Grendel007]

This is Intel 4500 HD and the system is win 7 pro 64 bit.

I tried both with enabled and disabled aero.
I play with soft external subs.

[namaiki]

The stuttering might go away if you disable subtitle animation or you don't enable subtitle animation (In MPC-HC: View-> Options-> Subtitles)

if aero is disabled and there is tearing, then make sure Vsync, accurate vsync, and alt vsync are all enabled under 'View-> Renderer Settings-> Vsync'

[edigee]

Thank YOU namaiki for your advice.

Unfortunately, my problem is a bit complicated.

On the notebook screen and its resolution 1280x 800 the picture seems flawless.

However, when I connect my notebook to the tv and the output resolution is changed to the native of the tv 1920x1080 on the same settings of the MPC HC there appear either stuttering or tearing which so far I haven't been able to overcome.

What is it about???
Is it connected with different refresh rates? What refresh rate should on 1080p output from notebook from the card?

I will be very grateful for any answer.

Normaly the display refresh rate should be a multiple of the framerate of the video material ,to avoid such behavior. For example, when you're playing a 23.976 fps video the display refresh rate should be 23.976 ,23.976x2, 23.976x3Hz.....Of course this is not possible ,but you can set the refresh rate at values as closer as possible( 24Hz, 50Hz, 75Hz). To play a 23.976fps movie on a 60Hz display it would be more tricky: the result is the behaviur you're talking about. Basicly the player tries to syncronize the video with the display-the result is:droping some frames ,stuttering ,not a smooth movement. That's why MPC-HC has the renderer Sync options, to minimize those issues . See also Al-Jaar builds(GothSync tryouts)-same ideea behind those ones. The perfect (well, almost)combination is to use those Sync option in MPC-HC together with Reclock (for a good audio sync too).
I'm sure there are guys here that knows 1000 more than me about sync problems, their advice would be more useful.