megui help plz- resolution/bitrate/encode speed

[runLoganrun]

hi,

The other day successfully made nice 720p mkv, at 2000kbps video, and "very slow" speed, and came up with a 783MB file after remuxed with audio. The quality was surprisingly good (vc-1 blu-ray source). So last night I set out to keep the 1080p resolution, raised bitrate to 3000kbps, and set encoding to "slow" as very slow is very true to it's name- very slow, thought the extra bits would offset that. The video I got though is blocking out, fairly significantly.

Not sure if I should scrap trying to keep 1080p resolution, I'd like to keep it as that's what my tv is, not married to it though, or increase bitrate, or go back to "very slow" encoding. The file size I got btw is 1.13GB(with ac3-640), I just want to keep it under 2GB, so increased bitrate is fine, it'd be nice to keep it at "slow", or maybe even try "medium", just want to keep best quality possible. This is not a full movie, but a tv episode ~45m.

Thanks for any help,
rlr

[neuron2]

1080P is going to need 8000+ bps. 3000 is way too little.

[cmw]

You could also try to go for constant rate factor (constant quality). First set your rate factor to something between 20 (good quality) and 18 (very good quality) (the lower the number the better the quality, but everything below 17 becomes neglectible). First try with Medium preset then and look how big the file gets (you cannot predict file size with constant quality). If it's small enough for you so that you are willing to let it get bigger you can a) either decrease the crf further or b) increase the output resolution, both will result in a bigger filesize with the same settings (you won't probably be able to get a 1080p file 45mins under 2gb though even with the slowest preset, but maybe around 2,5-3gb, depends on the source).

However you could also set the preset to fast or faster. In crf mode, this will not or only minimally affect quality, while greatly increasing the filesize since the encoder compensates the lower encoding complexity with MOAR bitrate. Play around with this (I recommend using a movie trailer in 1080p for testing purposes) until you find a good mix between quality, file size and encoding time. Be aware however that every movie behaves a little different with constant quality, so two different 90 minutes movies can potentially have a huge size difference with exactly the same settings. General rule: the more slow or bright scenes a movie has, the bigger the final size will be.

To emphasisze how this all is a good idea: I recently backuped a DVD and first did a normal 2-pass mode encode (preset: medium) with a targeted filesize of ~1,2gb , then i used constant quality mode with crf 19 and slow preset, and the final filesize was something around 800mb with basically identical, if not even slightly better quality than the 400MB bigger 2-pass encode (it's a bit hard to tell which is better because the DVD source has some artifacts aswell). The encoding time was also around the same (took 10 minutes longer for a 1hour 50 minutes movie).

Edit: I did a 1080p test myself now, took the Avatar 1080p trailer which has 9720kbit/sec. With crf=20 and the slow preset, while not resizing/cropping anything, I ended up with a file almost half as small (132MB vs 249MB) which used a bitrate of 5100kbit/sec and looks transparent to me. Had I used slower or even very slow, the file size/bitrate would have been further reduced without quality loss. Alternatively, I could also use a higher crf (like 23 or so) which will result in a loss of quality, but it shouldn't be too bad and will signifcantly reduce the file size further.

[Capsbackup]

If you are trying to hit a certain file size, regardless of quality, automated 2 pass will be the most accurate.
I have used this setting on TV caps of 1280 X 720, 59.94fps, 42 min approx. length content, at 5000kbps and 1 384kbps AC3 audio and final size is about 1.75GB. Quality very similar ( to my eyes :) ) as the original.

[runLoganrun]

Awesome, thanks guys!
rlr

[runLoganrun]

If you are trying to hit a certain file size, regardless of quality, automated 2 pass will be the most accurate.
I have used this setting on TV caps of 1280 X 720, 59.94fps, 42 min approx. length content, at 5000kbps and 1 384kbps AC3 audio and final size is about 1.75GB. Quality very similar ( to my eyes :) ) as the original.

woe, 59.94fps? I've been keeping them as original file.... I didn't realize I could alter that.

[runLoganrun]

You could also try to go for constant rate factor (constant quality). First set your rate factor to something between 20 (good quality) and 18 (very good quality) (the lower the number the better the quality, but everything below 17 becomes neglectible). First try with Medium preset then and look how big the file gets (you cannot predict file size with constant quality). If it's small enough for you so that you are willing to let it get bigger you can a) either decrease the crf further or b) increase the output resolution, both will result in a bigger filesize with the same settings (you won't probably be able to get a 1080p file 45mins under 2gb though even with the slowest preset, but maybe around 2,5-3gb, depends on the source).

However you could also set the preset to fast or faster. In crf mode, this will not or only minimally affect quality, while greatly increasing the filesize since the encoder compensates the lower encoding complexity with MOAR bitrate. Play around with this (I recommend using a movie trailer in 1080p for testing purposes) until you find a good mix between quality, file size and encoding time. Be aware however that every movie behaves a little different with constant quality, so two different 90 minutes movies can potentially have a huge size difference with exactly the same settings. General rule: the more slow or bright scenes a movie has, the bigger the final size will be.

To emphasisze how this all is a good idea: I recently backuped a DVD and first did a normal 2-pass mode encode (preset: medium) with a targeted filesize of ~1,2gb , then i used constant quality mode with crf 19 and slow preset, and the final filesize was something around 800mb with basically identical, if not even slightly better quality than the 400MB bigger 2-pass encode (it's a bit hard to tell which is better because the DVD source has some artifacts aswell). The encoding time was also around the same (took 10 minutes longer for a 1hour 50 minutes movie).

Edit: I did a 1080p test myself now, took the Avatar 1080p trailer which has 9720kbit/sec. With crf=20 and the slow preset, while not resizing/cropping anything, I ended up with a file almost half as small (132MB vs 249MB) which used a bitrate of 5100kbit/sec and looks transparent to me. Had I used slower or even very slow, the file size/bitrate would have been further reduced without quality loss. Alternatively, I could also use a higher crf (like 23 or so) which will result in a loss of quality, but it shouldn't be too bad and will signifcantly reduce the file size further.

I haven't done much crf encoding with this, or any other app, because I wanted control over the bitrate and/or filesize, but I may look into that, will make a clip from source, and do it that way, I thought I had a handle on it so went for full encode, but prob the one i'm doing now is fudged as well (4200kbps, on slow), blu-ray source too, so it's bitrate is 19,700kbps! for vid. I'll let it finish out, since I waited this long already, but may just go back to 1280x720 as the one I did earlier (on very slow) came out quite good and was ~780MB, I guess it's quite a jump to 1080p from there.

so for encoding speed, it's more a factor of resulting file size than actual vid quality? ie: medium- larger file, slow- smaller file, but relatively similar quality??

Thanks!
rlr

[cmw]

so for encoding speed, it's more a factor of resulting file size than actual vid quality? ie: medium- larger file, slow- smaller file, but relatively similar quality??

Yes, for crf, the preset will affect both encoding speed and final file size, while the overall quality will stay roughly the same no matter what. (faster preset = faster encoding, but much bigger filesize because it just adds more kbit/sec. however, ultrafast has such limited/bad encoding settings that the quality will be lower and allthough much of that is mitigated by the higher bitrate, it won't just look as good. you should be kinda safe with fast or faster though)

For 2-pass encode, the preset will not affect the final size as that is predetermined, but will affect encoding speed and especially quality. (faster preset = faster encoding, but less visual quality)


As I stated earlier, using slow or slower with crf mode usually produces a smaller yet equal or better quality encode than 2 pass mode with medium or slow, even if you set a fairly good bitrate. Of course, 2 pass with slow/slower gives very good quality too, but sometimes, the given space is "wasted" as certain scenes would be able to have equal quality with a much smaller bitrate and a high bitrate just adds nothing to detail (this depends on the source of course).

The big advantage of crf with a slow preset therefore is that it produces high quality while using as little space as possible, while with 2-pass you will often create a file that is bigger than actually would be necessary for your desired quality.

[runLoganrun]

So, I've been experimenting with a 10min clip of a vid (blu-ray source) that I made. I'm still on 2-pass encode. For 1080p I've got it all the way up to 10,200kbps, on slow, and it's still blocky!!, seriously not that much better than when I had it way down at ~4500, however the 720p clip I made at 2,200, on medium doesn't look that bad, it looks pretty good actually, and is 1/4 the size of the other one.
I haven't done much in the way of tweaking settings, as I don't know that much about them, but it seems like I'd have to go up to 15k...kbps to get anything good out of the 1080p, and then might as well just keep the source.
As far as tweaking though, what is .mbtree for? I deselected it for both these encodes. Another issue, don't have my HDTV with me, so can't view real 1080p anyway, it's in storage temporarily, while I am in the process of moving/looking for housing, so I'm using a 1600x900 monitor, but blocky is blocky, that's not gonna change with tv. I will try the crf with 1080p and see what that yields, otherwise, unless someone has a better suggestion, will scrap that, and go with 720p and get as good quality as possible. Source btw is sci-fi (BSG) so lots going on, yet pretty dark most of the time.

Thanks again, I appreciate it,
rlr

[runLoganrun]

so, check it out, I ran a crf with quality at 17 (wasn't sure if you meant quality or quantizer, don't know the diff tbph), with 1080p resolution, and still blocky, i had re-enabled .mbtree, having not known what that affects. seems like I should be tweaking something else, I don't get it..... I thought with that setting it would produce the quality factor input, and size would be determined by that, ie: it would come out good, regardless of whether or not it's the right file size for me. I haven't changed any other settings, I just set it to constant quality, and 17, and that's it, or in the case of 2 pass encodings, set resolution and bitrate. Is there something else I should be doing?
thx,
rlr

more- lol, ok this is F'd up, with above file, constant quality, I've got a bigger file, and higher bitrate than what I started with, 27.xMb, yet it's still blocky, basically there is little difference between the 2 pass encoding I did at 9000kbps, and this monstrosity at 27.xMb, there's slightly less blockiness, but overall it's similar. I am pretty confused at this point....
thx

[Dark Shikari]

Then perhaps the "blockiness" isn't caused by x264. For example, you might be using a broken decoder. Perhaps you could post a sample?

[nurbs]

When you reencode the video you lose some of the noise (and actual details). Noise hides blocking in the video and a reencode reveals it. When that happens the video often doesn't have much actual detail to begin. (An issue with many/most blu-rays in my opinion which is why I usually resize to 720p.) When you downsize you eliminate(shrink) the blocks and the actual information remains.
Maybe a bit oversimplified, but I think this basically describes your issue.

edit:
Like Dark said, post a source sample. I wanna see what BSG looks like on blu-ray. :)

[runLoganrun]

cool, doing so now, don't wait up though, lol, 1Mb up connection, taking forever to upload, only 10min clip too.... (1.56GB)
thanks, I'll post in a few hours....

And yeah, BSG awesome on blu-ray. I use MyMovies for WMC, so put everything on hdd, have tons of storage atm, wish I could put this whole series on there, in uncompressed splendor, but it would just be a tremendous amount of space. All my other movies are currently on there, uncompressed, and I'm getting to the point where I'd like to start re-encoding them to fit better (wonder how many hours that would take, 4.5TB to re-encode), don't know if I could let go of that Dolby TrueHD audio though, or DTS-MA, they are both spectacular, really brings the movies to life, you hear the smallest details in crystal clear quality, and you really feel all the action, especially (obv.) the low range stuff, if pushed through good system. So, just in audio is a lot of space, something like 4-5GB per movie, I think. Good quality DD or DTS is still very good though, so we'll see. But I did buy all the equipment to support the HD formats (streamed to receiver), wouldn't want to let that go to waste. If I could knock down the video it would help a lot though. Needs to get my file server up and running again, that would help, as far as adding more drives. Def taking another look at things though, as my movie collection increases. This is providing invaluable info, thanks....

Anyways, up to 26% now, so, slowly getting there.
rlr

[runLoganrun]

all file hosting I can find appears to be hosed. tried filesavr, first after getting to 92% (over 3 hours), I got a "server not found" error, then when retrying I got to 72% only to have it freeze up on me. So I went back to MediaFire and got a premium account so I could upload a larger file, spent another 3.5 hours with that, only to have it auto reset when it got to full, leaving me with no file, I can't believe how annoying this is, never had any problem before. I told filesavr I wanted a full refund, and i'm giving mediafire another shot (a 3.5 hour shot) plus I sent an email to their help desk.

so, for now no file....

I kind of get the part about blockiness being uncovered, when noise removed, but still don't get how I could get bigger file at higher bitrate, and have it be blocky, when I try 1080p, esp. since at fraction of bitrate I get an excellent picture at 720p. Last night I did two full encodes of episodes at 720p, 2500kbps, slow, and they came out great, again, still don't have my hdtv with me, so dealing with 1600x900 monitor, but that's still decent, and I think they'll look good once I get my tv set up again.

I'll continue to try and get clip up,
thanks,
rlr

[runLoganrun]

Then perhaps the "blockiness" isn't caused by x264. For example, you might be using a broken decoder. Perhaps you could post a sample?

do you mean that the x264 encoder.exe in megui is broken? working at 720p though.... def not working, hardly, at 1080p though.

thanks,
rlr

[nurbs]

You don't have to post 10 minutes. A minute where the problem is visible would do.

[cmw]

Yes, please post just 1 minute of it. I also think that the problem has to be somewhere else than x264, becaue the megui version works fine for me. Can you post your avs script aswell?

Constant Quality mode with CRF setting 17 should produce an extremely High Quality file, and with slow setting for full 1080p should by my experience not exceed 10mbit/sec (allthough this again depends a bit on the source, what bitrate does the original blue ray videotrack have?) You may want to try crf 18 though, it should still provide sufficient quality but faster encoding and less space consumption. Maybe even try slower with crf 18 or 19. The blocking though has to be something else.

[runLoganrun]

sorry, didn't realize a minute would do, and just happened to have 10 minute clip, and finally got it uploaded. Here is Link (http://www.mediafire.com/file/wmi0mzyjmmm/s01e01- 33(10m,dts,1080p).mkv).

Here (http://www.mediafire.com/?utenmyzu1gc) is avs script. I didn't have the original, but made another one from original file. There is one change in it however, as I was updating the profile I made, this one has .mbtree enabled, whereas, it appears, that it was turned off for original file encode.

original file is at 20.5Mbps

as far as the blockiness I haven't experienced this for anything else, viewing wise, except one set of files, which someone gave me and oddly enough it's the same BSG season 1.

Per advice on Videohelp.com I removed codec pack which I had installed, and in fact just reformatted my OS drive, and never put it on, so there are def no remnants or anything from that. And I just loaded latest FFDshow and Haali.

Hope the 10 min clip is cool, it took me long enough to upload it, so figured I may as well post it.

Thanks for the help!!
rlr

[Capsbackup]

Have you tried MeGui's AVS Script Creator? Your AVS script is basic, but maybe that's what you want.
If you try AVS Script Creator, click on Filters, and then click Analyse, and see what MeGui recommends.
You also may want to shorten that upload to 1 minute, since 1.56GB may deter many from viewing your sample.

[runLoganrun]

Have you tried MeGui's AVS Script Creator? Your AVS script is basic, but maybe that's what you want.
If you try AVS Script Creator, click on Filters, and then click Analyse, and see what MeGui recommends.
You also may want to shorten that upload to 1 minute, since 1.56GB may deter many from viewing your sample.

HERE (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6b391abe7448ab5e90a82c7bb0fad7ad82614ca6a77b1fb8e91dc00c2f906379) is 1 minute clip as requested.

1m-clip.mkv= source vc1 file in mkv container
1m-clip,2.mkv= source file encoded to 1080p at 2p, 10.2Mbps
1m-clip.avs= avs script

I've used script creator all along, but wasn't really sure what to do with settings. This one I used analyze to get deinterlace settings, and .... some other field it provides, beyond that don't know what to do with script creator.

Also tried this clip with crf 18.0 med, and still ended up with larger file than what I started with, however there was no blockiness for first time (at 1080p), but moot really as bitrate was increased, not decreased, still noteworthy though, I thought.

Last night I was continuing with the 720p settings I had created which came out very good (not using analyze though), but encodes I did last night failed, no idea why, used exact same settings as previous successful encode, have it as a preset now. I'll have to recheck that as I'm not sure what could've happened.

thx,
rlr

[Capsbackup]

As I mentioned above, If you are trying to hit a certain file size, automated 2 pass will be the most accurate. You can either accept the quality for your desired file size or increase bitrate and accept the file size.
This sample shows a frame rate of 19.1808fps with tsMuxeR. How did you achieve that?
What is the original source? What is the frame rate of the original source?

EDIT: It looks like, if this is the AVS you used on your original source, that your source is 23.976fps. That is what you want to keep. So I am not sure why the script shows TDecimate(cycleR=1).
If it is a clean, progressive, 23.976fps source, just reduce the bitrate to the desired file size. If resizing is desired, convert to 720P.
Also, whatever audio you are selecting will greatly affect the file size, so choose carefully there. DD 5.1 AC3 at 448kbps can sound very good with smaller file size.
What is your ultimate goal for playback?

[runLoganrun]

As I mentioned above, If you are trying to hit a certain file size, automated 2 pass will be the most accurate. You can either accept the quality for your desired file size or increase bitrate and accept the file size.
This sample shows a frame rate of 19.1808fps with tsMuxeR. How did you achieve that?
What is the original source? What is the frame rate of the original source?

EDIT: It looks like, if this is the AVS you used on your original source, that your source is 23.976fps. That is what you want to keep. So I am not sure why the script shows TDecimate(cycleR=1).
If it is a clean, progressive, 23.976fps source, just reduce the bitrate to the desired file size. If resizing is desired, convert to 720P.
Also, whatever audio you are selecting will greatly affect the file size, so choose carefully there. DD 5.1 AC3 at 448kbps can sound very good with smaller file size.
What is your ultimate goal for playback?

the source is blu-ray disc, VC-1 codec, 20.5Mbps, exactly what's in mkv container, prob is no matter what I choose for bitrate on 2p encode, I've gone up as high as the 10.2Mbps in sample, it's still blocky.
IDK why script says that either, I didn't add it, just selected analyze file to see about deinterlace settings, aside from that did not touch avs script, and in all previous attempts did not even use that.

My ultimate goal would be to get 1080p in as high quality as possible but still reducing file size significantly.

Secondary to that, which I've been able to produce fairly easily, is to convert to 720p, with greatly reduced bitrate, but still retaining high quality. It's strange because I can get very good 720p encode at 2500kbps (vid only), and a file size of under 1GB, from a ~6-7GB source (1080p), yet when I have it set to 1080p, and use a much higher bitrate, 10.2Mbps, it's as blocky as if I did half that bitrate. Someone explained earlier, about the noise and such, and the smaller resolution getting rid of it, but I've also been told that at 2p, slow-med speed, 10.2Mbps should yield high quality file, and something about a broken decoder, not sure what that means exactly.

But this is for encoding TV shows, and I'm ok with 720p, esp with BSG where there's a fair amount of graininess to it anyway, so I don't think much difference could be noticed.

I would like to encode some movies I have (a lot of movies) using megui, at 1080p, so would like to get the settings dialed for that. When I analyzed file, and came up with above settings you mentioned, it did seem to help, albeit not that much, someone else had suggested I try that also. I also did an encode with crf 18 at medium, which was also suggested, but that yielded a larger file than what I started with?? Although he stated it should have been around the 10.2Mbps mark, IDK what other software or filters, or whatever I'm using that would change this.

Would person mentioning "broken encoder" please chime in, not sure what you mean.

Thanks,
rlr

[Capsbackup]

I'm not sure how much more help I can be, but I"ll try. If the source is Blu-Ray, 1080P, 23.976fps, this is a great start. Just reduce the bitrate for the desired file size, taking into account the audio type and file size as well. No filters should be necessary, the easiest to backup.
My ultimate goal would be to get 1080p in as high quality as possible but still reducing file size significantly.
What will you be playing back the reencoded file with? PC, standalone, HTPC, PS3, AVCHD burned to DVD media, etc... Whatever your answer is, then you prepare accordingly.( you never said )
But this is for encoding TV shows, and I'm ok with 720p, esp with BSG where there's a fair amount of graininess to it anyway, so I don't think much difference could be noticed.
TV shows will be set up differently with MeGui than Blu-Ray rips. Frames per second is important here, which is where MeGui"s analyse can be helpful. But again, playing back to ?.
Would person mentioning "broken encoder" please chime in, not sure what you mean.
I have reencoded many Blu-Ray rips and TV shows with MeGui, and they have all always been too close to tell the difference from the original. So I think you can forget about a "broken encoder".

[runLoganrun]

I'm not sure how much more help I can be, but I"ll try. If the source is Blu-Ray, 1080P, 23.976fps, this is a great start. Just reduce the bitrate for the desired file size, taking into account the audio type and file size as well. No filters should be necessary, the easiest to backup.

What will you be playing back the reencoded file with? PC, standalone, HTPC, PS3, AVCHD burned to DVD media, etc... Whatever your answer is, then you prepare accordingly.( you never said )

TV shows will be set up differently with MeGui than Blu-Ray rips. Frames per second is important here, which is where MeGui"s analyse can be helpful. But again, playing back to ?.

I have reencoded many Blu-Ray rips and TV shows with MeGui, and they have all always been too close to tell the difference from the original. So I think you can forget about a "broken encoder".


Cool, thanks,

Well the TV shows I'm talking about here are from blu-ray source, so should be same as anything else, I would imagine. These will go into .mkv's for pc playback (on HD screen, 37", 1080p)

The blu-ray movies, also for pc playback (on same HDTV/monitor), but these I will remux into blu-ray file structure, and debating whether or not to keep HD audio, for use in MyMovies for WMC, (awesome plug-in).

As far as encoding the blu-rays though, movies, or whatever, what kind of bitrates are you ultimately getting? At 10.2Mbps I was still getting blockiness- unwatchable. I did my little clip today at 14Mbps, which worked, but that's pretty up there, and I expected better results, def going to try and shave it down from there, but I was surprised, as I got such good results from 720p encode, currently doing 2500kbps for those, but seems like I could go lower, but from a 6GB file, I'm getting it down to only ~1GB, which is perfectly fine, and looking great. That was with BSG episode. Movies def want to keep 1080p. Are you doing anything different with avs script, or adjusting any other settings? Unfortunately my HDTV is in storage at the moment, and I'm using a 1600x900 20" monitor, so it's tough to tell what the results would look like on my regular viewing screen, aside from the blockiness which is clearly an issue, and would prob be worse on bigger screen. What kinda bitrates, in general, are you getting for blu-ray encodes?

Thanks!
rlr

[Capsbackup]

I backup my blu-ray rips to movie only BD-5, 1080P, AVCHD, with one 640kbps DD 5.1 AC3, and one Eng Subtitle. Movies up to 2 hours that have low action look indistinguishable, to my eyes,:p, from the original, and movies from 2.5 to 3 hours, though rare, I use BD-9, DVD+R DL.
Playback is on a 50", 1080P Samsung plasma with a Sony BDP-S360 Blu-Ray player.
I keep 1080P, and have never been disappointed with the results. Others will say to reduce to 720P, which may be acceptable, but not my choice.
You might also take a look at BD-Rebuilder, which can simplify the encoding choices and produces excellent results. You may be pleasantly suprised! :)

[runLoganrun]

I backup my blu-ray rips to movie only BD-5, 1080P, AVCHD, with one 640kbps DD 5.1 AC3, and one Eng Subtitle. Movies up to 2 hours that have low action look indistinguishable, to my eyes,:p, from the original, and movies from 2.5 to 3 hours, though rare, I use BD-9, DVD+R DL.
Playback is on a 50", 1080P Samsung plasma with a Sony BDP-S360 Blu-Ray player.
I keep 1080P, and have never been disappointed with the results. Others will say to reduce to 720P, which may be acceptable, but not my choice.
You might also take a look at BD-Rebuilder, which can simplify the encoding choices and produces excellent results. You may be pleasantly suprised! :)

I think BD rebuilder is the one that only specifies DVD5 or DVD9, right?

I had previously stayed away from that because it seemed like too much compression. I had tried some 1m samples using deblocking +1, and continued to use analyse, with mixed bitrates between 10.2Mbps and ~12.5Mbps, all came out blocky. I think I'll take a look at what settings are default for dvd5/9 to maybe get a better idea, but will take your advice and try the presets although I admit I'm a bit skeptical, it just doesn't seem possible, but you've got a 50" screen, so.... The settings must be tweaked much differently though bcz I had to go up to 14Mbps to get good picture, but that would only be reducing file size by a little over 25%, I think anyways, just going by bitrate, so I s'pose I'll start with dvd-9 first. Would love to keep in 1080p for this series, and def for movies.

Thanks a lot, I'll post my results,
rlr

[runLoganrun]

results: 1080p encode,
I went for the highest, or near, quality settings, so these could prob be tweaked more, unfortunately still have prob of not having my HDTV, so obviously viewing won't be as accurate on current monitor, it is 1600x900 though, but only 20"
1 min. clip source file, muxed to mkv for megui: 135MB (vid only), 18.9Mbps (this is kinda weird as if you check original .m2ts stream bitrate is 19.6Mbps, I guess remux to .mkv alters that slightly.
Anyways....

1) blu-ray insane preset- 26.7Mbps, 191MB file!! guess I'm not using that one, may try HQ, or something though
2) did same as 1, but analyzed file with avs script creator first, results weren't exactly choppy, but picture did jump, very slightly.
3) AVCHD DVD5/9 insane- 13.8Mbps, 99.3MB file
4) x264 scratchpad, AVC@4.1, 12.5Mbps- 88.2MB file @ (obv.) 12.5Mbps
5) bluray 2pass preset (comes out in config as 3pass automated)- 8,000Kbps, 56.6MB file!!

All of them came out excellent (on this screen), excluding #2, with #5 clearly being the winner with the smallest file size and bitrate with no distinguishable loss in quality, however that was a 1 min clip, I wonder how long a whole movie would take.... prob a long ass time. That one was preset to "slow" encode whereas others were all set to "medium".

The AVCHD DVD 5/9 I didn't quite get as there's no specification for either as far as I could see, and the bitrate was consistent with the results I had on my own using x264 scratchpad (previously), being that I had to keep it at 14Mbps to prevent blockiness. Don't see how that would fit on a DVD 9 though, as the resulting file size was ~74% of the original, so for your typical 25GB blu-ray, that's still 18.5GB, so a bit confused on that one.

Doing my own x264 scratchpad, auto 2pass, at 12.5Mbps seems to be the best candidate, as file size came out at ~65% of original, can't remember if I had that one on med or slow, pretty sure med, and the key there (for me) was to manually set AVC rate to 4.1, as I observed that's how the presets were, because previously when I had done it at that rate, it was quite blocky. I think that could be lowered to judging by the bluray 2 pass preset, which was at a whopping 8,000Kbps, yielding an output size ~42% of original, but again even though it says 2 pass, the config settings come out as auto 3 pass, so I don't want to spend an eternity re-encoding my movies, still very impressive.

I think I will stick with the 2 pass as that kinda landed in the middle, keeping the AVC@4.1 profile, and trying to lower the bitrate to around 10Mbps, that should do nicely, on a slow encode.

So, that's that

Thank you for everyone's contribution, esp Capsbackup,
Cheers,
rlr