Jerky Playback result of d2v?

[rtjnyoface]

I've tried encoding the planet earth series (sd-dvd) multiple times now with every instance being no better than the previous. Every time I encode the file the playback of the resulting file is somewhat jerky. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the creation of the dgindex file.

Source:
Planet earth sd-dvd (not including any menus)
Each one is interlaced, 30fps.

Methods of encoding:
I've tried various deinterlacers and once without any deinterlacing.

Settings I use dgindex by itself:
Honor pulldown flags (since the source is 30fps and interlaced)
1180 reference
The yielded file from these settings would have audio out of sync and the film ending much faster than it should with the middle to end of film being blank (as well as being jerky).

If I use megui the d2v indicates the film is 24fps but playback is still jerky.

Xp Pro Sp3
Core i7 3GB ddr3
Divx decoders (both aac and mkv).

Any suggestions would be helpful. I would upload a clip of both the original vob as well as the resulting file but I do not know how to do so :).

[manono]

Every NTSC DVD from a BBC TV series I ever seen (and I've seen plenty, but not this series) has been field-blended garbage. To be sure what you have and how it should be treated, how about a short 10 second sample from the source uploaded somewhere for us to take a look.

To answer your question, though, if you made the D2V using Honor Pulldown flags, the problems have nothing at all to do with DGIndex. If it wasn't jerky originally, then any jerkiness that appeared later would be the result of how it was filtered. If, for example, it really is the result of a PAL2NTSC field-blended transfer, then IVTCing to 24fps would be exactly the wrong thing to do.

To make an M2V suitable for upload, use the [ and ] buttons of DGIndex to isolate a section with steady movement. Then File->Save Project and Demux Video. Upload the M2V to MediaFire and give us the link.

[rtjnyoface]

Wow, I really didn't know it was THAT easy to make a mediafire account.

Don't know what an M2V file is but I uploaded the D2V and the Vob clip. Thanks for the info on making cuts to the film so easily. The years I've used Dgindex I had been unaware of that functionality.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3ea1e7b94ed197170f83d91f6dff7c38e04e75f6e8ebb871

EDIT: ha, now I know what an M2V file is :).

[manono]

Yeah, it's PAL2NTSC. The easiest way to unblend it is with this:

Yadif(Order=1,Mode=1) #or your favorite smartbobber
Repal()

RePAL can be found here:

http://avisynth.org/warpenterprises/

The result will be progressive, smooth playing, and 24.975fps.

[rtjnyoface]

Manono, I am entirely appreciative of your help. No one answering was actually a concern of mine prior to your post. I will follow your suggestions ASAP. Before I wonder off and do as you've told me I would like to ask you a couple of questions regarding your response.

1.
Yeah, it's PAL2NTSC

How exactly were you able to find this out? How can you tell if something is ntsc interlaced vs. PAL2NTSC vs. any other forms of interlacing (i'm assuming there's more?)? ( a brief response would suffice). I ask because I would rather be able to understand it and help myself next time instead of asking what something is (concerning interlacing) or what to do about it.

2. Well...hell. With all the fiddling I've done while trying to compile this response I forgot my other question :).

[rtjnyoface]

The result will be progressive, smooth playing, and 24.975fps.

2. Would the audio then need to be adjusted or encoded differently?

3. How do I load RePAL into the megui install folder? Not inserting it into the script but placing it where within the install directory.

Sorry for asking what may seem to be noob questions by your standard :(. From what I read the PAL to NTSC section didn't mention too much about the PAL to NTSC conversion and offers but one suggestion.

[manono]

If the DGIndex Preview says it's NTSC and Interlaced, it could be any one of a number of things and only a close examination of the frames and fields will reveal what you have and how you should treat it. Don't rely on any kind of automatic analysis, such as the MeGUI one. You first make a 29.97fps D2V using Honor Pulldown Flags, and then use that in a basic unfiltered AviSynth script which you open in VDub(Mod) or something else so you can examine the individual frames. Sometimes you'll have to separate the fields or put on a bobber so you can have a look at the individual fields.

If all frames are interlaced then most likely it was shot using interlaced 30fps video cameras. For some output formats (DVD), you would ordinarily leave it interlaced; for others (AVI) you'd deinterlace it. If, in every 5 frame sequence, you see 3 progressive frames and 2 interlaced ones it's hard telecine, began as film, and an IVTC will restore it to progressive 23.976fps. For the blended stuff, sometimes you separate the fields or bob the video to establish that you have blended fields. Sometimes you can just have a look at the frames themselves and in a 6 frame sequence you'll see one or two that are progressive. If it's a 6 frame cycle it's evidence it began life as PAL. The important thing is that it's a 6 frame cycle.

I bobbed yours, saw the blends and knowing it was BBC stuff knew it was PAL2NTSC and that a bobber/RePAL combination would do the job. These things aren't perfect. Maybe not all frames will get unblended. Maybe in fine lines you'll get aliasing/line jitter. You can use a better bobber (TempGaussMC), but you may take until Christmas to get the job done. The only real fix is for them to have produced a proper NTSC master.

The length stays the same, so you don't have to stretch the audio. The only reason you might slow the audio would be if you also slowed the video using something like AssumeFPS(23.976). I suspect, however, that these things were shot using 25fps cameras, but don't know for sure.

I know nothing (and care even less) about MeGUI. Sorry.

[rtjnyoface]

Thanks for all the info. It was similar to what was in the sticky above but the whole PAL2NTSC lingo made me think there was more to it than the sticky had stated.

I know nothing (and care even less) about MeGUI. Sorry.

Ha. Thats funny. So then how would I add it to the script because I added the plugin in the vdub plugins folder but was still unable to load it through the script and received an error.

[manono]

LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\DGDecode.dll")
LoadCPlugin("C:\Path\To\Yadif.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\RePAL.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Path\To\Video.d2v")
Yadif(Order=1,Mode=1)
RePAL()

Most people recommend sticking them in the AviSynth Plugins folder to be loaded automatically. Or you can include a line in the script loading it. Yadif is tricky, though. Notice that you load a 'C' plugin. There's another way to do it also. Read the included doc. Or use a different bobber.

[rtjnyoface]

I now have a different source. It is 30fps with the 2/3 combo of progressive and interlaced frames. I read that simply forcing film in the dgindex file would correct the film, reinstating it back to 24 fps. Is this a good idea or would a better idea be to ivtc?

[Inspector.Gadget]

That depends on whether the content is actually FILM with soft pulldown or VIDEO with hard telecine. If DGIndex reports that the source is >95% FILM, then yes, force film is often a good choice (but stray combing can be annoying, so preview it in Avisynth before encoding). In all other cases, honor pulldown flags and then IVTC (and for hybrid content, generally one of the hybrid modes of TIVTC is the proper choice; read the manual for more guidance).

[rtjnyoface]

Oh my gosh. Really? All the hoops. It seems like there is too much going on with film. Are the standards lax or something? It just seems like too much variety in types of film. I wonder if implementation such as cable could be better served if there were fewer varieties in the types of video. Maybe I just have a pea sized brain.

Maybe this would help.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3ea1e7b94ed197170f83d91f6dff7c38ec2b86eea449fe5892595bc19e6628dc

[Inspector.Gadget]

I can't do anything that you can't do just by using DGIndex. If DGIndex reports FILM, then you have film. If not, and you see a 3:2 pattern, then you have hard telecine content and must IVTC. If you have hybrid content, you should IVTC and use one of the decimate functions with hybrid handling. Take a few minutes and read all the relevant manuals and use search. Both our time and yours is poorly used by having people write IVTC scripts for you.

[rtjnyoface]

Both our time and yours is poorly used by having people write IVTC scripts for you.

I wasn't asking for a script. And yes, I would rather do this myself than wasting time by asking people who seem to be not so interested in helping. I'm not asking you to do it for me.

Thanks for the help.

[Inspector.Gadget]

I would rather do this myself than wasting time by asking people who seem to be not so interested in helping

Missed my point entirely. That Mediafire link doesn't go anywhere, btw. What I was pointing out is that (a) DGIndex works exactly the same on your system as it does on mine, and you'll get the answer quicker by just doing it yourself, and (B) when you get to know DGIndex/TIVTC/etc., using them becomes automatic so you'll also save time in the long run.

[rtjnyoface]

I've been using DGIndex for a couple of years now. I've come to not give much credit to what the window defines the film as. As far as using and becoming familiar with what IVTC does exactly and how to use it, yes I am fairly new to these processes and therefore looking for help.

using them becomes automatic

That often requires another person's input - hence the forum. Reading the material in the sticky is a bit hard for me to read as I suppose it would be for many others. I've read many times but still come up with very few answers.

[Inspector.Gadget]

I've come to not give much credit to what the window defines the film as

Why? DGIndex is ALWAYS accurate as to the presence of pulldown flags. That's all neuron2 has ever claimed it does. You indicate above you know you have a telecined source (whether hard or soft), therefore you should be able to resolve the present issue quite quickly, knowing already (a) what the source appears to do and (b) what DGIndex tells you about the use (or not) of pulldown flags.

[neuron2]

I've come to not give much credit to what the window defines the film as. You're probably thinking of the interlaced/progressive frame indication, which, as the manual clearly describes, tells you only how the stream was encoded, and not the nature of the actual content. But as the Inspector points out, that is different from what it reports about soft pulldown. That is unambiguously correct.