Anyone tried using the Ogg format yet?

[soujir0u]

Just saw that Ogg thing on the front page...anyone tried it yet?

[ppera2]

Yes. But didn't work in AVI.

[Corby]

Yes, successfully muxed Divx4 video (25fps) and Vorbis audio into Ogg stream in GraphEdit using DS muxer. Works great. Only problem is you have to time-shift audio in some sound editing app if DVD2AVI or SR report a delay in audio part, since this muxer doesn't support delays.

Resulting Ogg stream doesn't play as audio-only in Winamp: it's either a bug in Winamp in_vorbis plug-in (PP's version) or guy who wrote those DS filters broke Ogg specs.

[MaTTeR]

Arghh..I'm trying to mux in NanDub and it just crashes. I was hoping this would be easy.

[Corby]

Nandub cannot mux into Ogg. You have to use DS muxer which is the part of the filter pack.

[MaTTeR]

@Corby

If you replace the Vorbis files in your NanDub folder with files in Vorbis SDK package then you can mux. Problem is when I play the AVI I have no sound. So, I'm going to try your method and se what happens.

[Corby]

@MaTTeR

OK, I misunderstood you about AVI support.

You're right, it seems that these DS filters doesn't support Vorbis in AVI, only in Ogg. But Divx video stream in Ogg works nice, at least with PAL sources. There was some reports that player crashes if FPS is not a round number (author is the European :) ). Didn't try with NTSC sources, so I don't know if it is true.

About Vorbis in AVI, I guess we'll have to wait for MediaXW. But it would be nice if they start to cooperate.

[DarkAvenger]

Hey Corby,

as you seem to have more experience with this, could you be so nice and dl the newest HeadAC3he and try out the OGG implementation, ie. if the files are OK and everything. I didn't have any problems of loading them into CE with the cool_in filter.

[Corby]

DA,

I just tried new HeadAC3he. After some trouble with setup (you used CDex vorbis.dll instead of SDK, right?) I made it to work. Didn't tried full-featured movie rip yet (that's next on my TODO list), but with few trailers and music videos it seemed to work fine. They played as audio file in WinAmp and WMP and also muxed successfully into video Ogg file.

There is one small problem that may occur with HeadAC3he and Vorbis audio: DS muxer in it's current version doesn't support audio delay, so to have a correct synch you would have to apply some time-shifting in SF or CE (is there some cmd line tool that can do that?) on decoded WAV before conversion to Vorbis. Other than that, Ogg support in HeadAC3he seems to work fine.

[DarkAvenger]

After some trouble with setup (you used CDex vorbis.dll instead of SDK, right?)

Hmm, i thought the error message made it clear, guess I must make it clearer.;) libvorbis was much too complicated and vorbis.dll was easy to link dynamically, so I chose this way for the time being. I am using the *modified* CDEX vorbis.dll. After RC4 is out and CBR and ABR are supported for 48kHz, I will either make the dll understand VBR by default or hope it is already there (unmodified).

They played as audio file in WinAmp and WMP and also muxed successfully into video Ogg file.

YES! This is what I wanted to hear. Thx a lot! :)

you would have to apply some time-shifting

Damn, it was on my to-do list, I just forgot about it. If it is not in 0.22pre, I forgot it again, so then you are welcome to bug me. :D

Please keep me updated, esp. if you find bugs.

[MaTTeR]

Thats interesting as I encoded an AC3 to Ogg using the supplied vorbis.dll and the ogg played fine in WinAmp. However, I tried encoding to a multi-channel ogg last night with 5 channels....well it took forever to encode. Encoding is very slow but that's because the code isn't optimized. The resulting multi-channel file tries to play in WinAmp but the sound comes out like high pitched screams or something.

[DarkAvenger]

Could someone verify, whether winamp *can* actually play mc oggs correct? Then it may be a bug in HeadAC3he.

[Peters]

Originally posted by Corby
Yes, successfully muxed Divx4 video (25fps) and Vorbis audio into Ogg stream in GraphEdit using DS muxer. Works great. Only problem is you have to time-shift audio in some sound editing app if DVD2AVI or SR report a delay in audio part, since this muxer doesn't support delays.

Resulting Ogg stream doesn't play as audio-only in Winamp: it's either a bug in Winamp in_vorbis plug-in (PP's version) or guy who wrote those DS filters broke Ogg specs.

It works but only with 25 fps or you got an awful video.
So it's a problem for NSTC :(

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by Peters

It works but only with 25 fps or you got an awful video.
So it's a problem for NSTC :(

No NTSC/23.97??? This is really strange. I guess it explains why I was unsuccessful then:mad:

[Corby]

@DA

I don't know if CDex DLL support multichannel encoding at all, so maybe problem isn't in HeadAC3he but in vorbis.dll. But WinAmp should play front channels of mc Ogg files correctly, although for full surround support (and complete AC3->Ogg) transcode there has to be some kind of correct mapping (which channel goes where) and I'm not sure if such mapper exists.


@Peters

Yes, it seems that filter has the problem when fps is not round number :(

I hope it will be fixed soon.

[ChristianHJW]

Forget Vorbis in AVI .... its doomed to fail, AVI simply can not contain true VBR audio streams. Check these links here http://www.powerdivx.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=164 and here http://www.powerdivx.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=154 .

The PowerDivX bettesting team had a very close look at Tobias' Ogg muxing tool and Vorbis DirectShowFilters .... as stated here by others, its working fine now for integer framerates like 24, 25 or 30 fps. So, if you have NTSC movies simply change the frame rate from 23.9x to 24 fps or 29.9x to 30 fps in Vdub, the audio sync should be fine in most cases because the deviation is not much .... check these threads here for more info : http://www.powerdivx.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=108 and http://www.powerdivx.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=176 .

Good news :

Both DarkAvenger ( HeadAC3he ) and DSPguru ( BeSweet ) are looking into ading Vorbis support ( vorbis.dll ) into their programs now ..... so it seems DivX with Vorbis sound may be becoming reality soon now ...... :)

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by Corby
Yes, it seems that filter has the problem when fps is not round number :( I hope it will be fixed soon.

Tobias W. is still on vacation ..... he probably has no idea of the hype going on about his soft now ....

[DarkAvenger]

@Chris

What means adding? I have added it.

@corby

I encoded a 6ch wav (created with HeadAC3he) with the CLI version and winamp didn't play it gave me an error. Something about not able to create secondary buffers or alike.

BTW, doesn't his belong to the audio section. Hello, mod, wake up! :D

[Peters]

Darkavenger, i tried the 0.20 version of your prog for doing AC3->Ogg conversion. It works great; just a question, do you plan to let us choose a more precise number for the quality (not only integers)

Thank's

@ChristianHJW

Muxing ogg with divx using Tobia's tool gives great results but it seems to me that the ogg video is not very editable.

How do we cut,join files?

By the way changing the frame rate from 23.976 fps to 24 fps is not nothing ; after playing one hour you got 4s of difference beetwen sound and video

[DarkAvenger]

do you plan to let us choose a more precise number for the quality (not only integers)

Therefore I've to mod the .dll, but it is not a problem though, if many want more quality steps.

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by DarkAvenger

Therefore I've to mod the .dll, but it is not a problem though, if many want more quality steps.

From what I've been reading over at hydrogen it does appear we need the extra qulity steps. Sorry D A;)

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by Peters
@ChristianHJW
Muxing ogg with divx using Tobia's tool gives great results but it seems to me that the ogg video is not very editable.
How do we cut,join files?

Peters,

this format is on its very start, so there are no editing soft like Vdub for now ..... but be assured there will be ;)

[DarkAvenger]

Aaarghh the sources are really a mess. I hope I will find the latest soon, as it seems everything is already put in...

[ChristianHJW]

Just updating you :

1. Alpha 7 of HeadAC3he ( mail DA ) is working fine for transcoding AC3 to Vorbis, even all 6 channels.

2. Tobias promised he will modify his Vorbis DSF to make it multichannel capable.

More to come ..

[Emp3r0r]

I would like to force my encodes to make keyframes on each new chapter so there is a keyframe to seek to when I change chapters. Is this unneccessary if I switch to OGG? Also, if should I switch from divx to xvid to accomplish this using GKNOT stats editor? Is there an easy way to do what I want using the INFO file from SmartRipper?

Thanks

[Emp3r0r]

well if this ogg thing takes off i may consider 5 running another 4 wires to replace my one that does it all digitally. Depends on how much bitrate Ogg saves me. Anybody got an idea of what an acceptable bitrate for multichannel ogg files will be? think it'll get down to maybe 225kbps?

[DarkAvenger]

Once a good channel coupling is in, probably you can go down, but right now, you should be about 300kbps, I guess.

[buba king]

yup! 3 dvd rips so far ...
Ogg Vorbis Aduio (-q3)
XviD (2pass luma masking)
Muxed into a nice cleen Ogg Media Stream :D

DVD ripping dosen't get any better than this :)

[Emp3r0r]

@Bubby King: I have heard that seeking is instant? in Ogg Media Streams. Is this accurate or do you have any comments?

Also, how is your quality on average for a 2cd 5 channel ogg audio 2 hour movie look using xvid 2pass?

[MaTTeR]

@Emp3r0r

Currently 5.1 Ogg Vorbis files are pretty much useless due to the speaker mapping issue(dialog only on right front & rear speakers). HeadAC3he encodes the 5.1 Ogg files nicely but the DSF maps the channels incorrectly. Tobias is working on the DSF along with DarkAvenger and trying to fix the problem.

Yes seeking in Ogg files is wicked fast:D

[buba king]

@Emp3r0r
Who is bubby king? ;)

Instant seek, perfect sync.
-q3 is good enough for me.. (if you want to spend more bits on audio increase it to -q4.99)

[kxy]

What is the size of a typical 2 hour movie using -q4.99?

What is your favorite oggenc -q 'sweet spot' for typical 1CD or 2CD movies?

What about multi stream how much increase would it be compare to the standard stereo ogg?