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View Full Version : is there any reference on how ripguard or arccos actually work?


xt5
4th July 2009, 02:33
hi,

I'm looking for an analysis of such methods, what them does?

AFAIK, they make the disc content look bigger, and add bad sectors to difficult sequencial reading...

does anybody have pointers to some technical notes about how this work?? (I can't found anything on internet)

best regards,
xt5

Ghitulescu
4th July 2009, 18:36
You haven't searched hard enough: I've found the info needed within 10 minutes (for arccos):

you have to repeat yourself the search as these links are illegal to be posted here (I do not understand the word questionable in Rule 6 but I assume it may refer to this kind of links).

the most known variant uses bad data in dummy sectors which are not referenced, thus a player will skip them, while a PC drive will die trying to read them. a smart ripper would analyse the "logic" of the movie before attempting a rip.

xt5
5th July 2009, 00:30
You haven't searched hard enough: I've found the info needed within 10 minutes (for arccos):

you have to repeat yourself the search as these links are illegal to be posted here (I do not understand the word questionable in Rule 6 but I assume it may refer to this kind of links).

the most known variant uses bad data in dummy sectors which are not referenced, thus a player will skip them, while a PC drive will die trying to read them. a smart ripper would analyse the "logic" of the movie before attempting a rip.

lot of hours of search yield me to the patent http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1734525.html which is pretty OK for me

but I couldn't found anything copyrighted nor confidencial (the one you say "questionable")

also I couldn't find any info of reverse engineer or anlysis, wich is strange for me due the number of post about copying such disc.... thats why I love the AACS LA free specs and the reverse engineer work done on the format by the community

--xt5

LoRd_MuldeR
5th July 2009, 01:05
Remember that nowadays most people use proprietary software, such as DVDFab or AnyDVD, to backup their "protected" DVDs.

So the people who have the info you are looking for probably won't share it ;)

Ghitulescu
5th July 2009, 07:51
but I couldn't found anything copyrighted nor confidencial (the one you say "questionable")

--xt5

I said something different: the links are related to content that would presumable infringe Rule 6. It's not the patent as such, which is free information, their put into practice is however not.

Also questionable was not my word, it's used in Rule 6 - so that the provisions of Rule 12 which states exactly the opposite ie everything is questionable (nothing is beyond doubt) are overruled almost entirely. It's a fine gap of overlapping.

It's a common mistake most people does, incuding the moderators, of what copyrighted does actually mean - if they understood it then Rule 6 would have been completely different drafted. Rule 6 practically closes down Doom9.org for good - since more than 99.999% of the posts actually infringes this rule. It's the doom for doom9, if I may a joke. So it's on the moderator to decide whether a link or the content of the post is "of questionable nature". I don't take that chance since you can get penalized.

avih
5th July 2009, 10:54
...
It's a common mistake most people does, incuding the moderators, of what copyrighted does actually mean - if they understood it then Rule 6 would have been completely different drafted. Rule 6 practically closes down Doom9.org for good - since more than 99.999% of the posts actually infringes this rule. It's the doom for doom9, if I may a joke. So it's on the moderator to decide whether a link or the content of the post is "of questionable nature". I don't take that chance since you can get penalized.
I don't think people don't understand rule 6, however, you should know that reverse engineering is legal in most countries, fair use exists and covers much within the US, at least theoretically, and most of the world is still outside the borders of the US where the rules are usually much less strict in this regard.

This discussion is therefore legitimate.

Ghitulescu
5th July 2009, 12:27
I don't think people don't understand rule 6, however, you should know that reverse engineering is legal in most countries, fair use exists and covers much within the US, at least theoretically, and most of the world is still outside the borders of the US where the rules are usually much less strict in this regard.

This discussion is therefore legitimate.

The discussion is legitime within certain jurisdictions.

The arguments I brought forth before have unfortunatelly nothing to do with the question posed. I'll better start a new topic under general chat wherein I'll explain what copyright, illegal, jurisdiction and collateral terms are.

Since I'm out in the net through a non-filtering ISP I could find non-English hacker sites (far East ;), you know, "The enemy") where some info are given. Posting them here will go through the scrutiny of a moderator - chances are that they considered illegal. In any case the links were found yesteday, now they are deleted since a new image is copied on the PCs each day by the companys' network administrators.

xt5
5th July 2009, 13:57
Ghitulescu:

If you have interesting information regarding the subject of this topic, and you belive it is against what rules says (being them well written or nonsense) or against doom9 intrinsic policy, please send me the references that you found to xt5 (a t) ingenieria-inversa.cl...

I'm based in Chile and I really don't care about DMCA, reverse engineer this stuff here is not ilegal!! For example I've already authoring the software to read the VID from the 360 HDDVD drive (and published it here in doom9), have disclosure the format of Wii and Gamecube optical discs and release tools and info on debugging commands of drives, full disclosure the Wii signing bug, and a lot more stuff, and never has been censured in any way in sites very similar from this...

anyway I'm 99.999% sure this is in the line of doom9, unless the info is under copyright (or at least what 99.999% that we understand as copyright)...

hope to see what the non-filtered internet with access to the far east can have access.

also when you post a thread in the general forum regarding copyright, jurisdiction, DMCA, doom9 policy put a link in this thread to give an interesting read :)

sorry my english,
--xt5

Ghitulescu
5th July 2009, 14:41
Ghitulescu:

If you have interesting information regarding the subject of this topic, and you belive it is against what rules says (being them well written or nonsense) or against doom9 intrinsic policy, please send me the references that you found to xt5 (a t) ingenieria-inversa.cl...

I'm based in Chile and I really don't care about DMCA, reverse engineer this stuff here is not ilegal!! For example I've already authoring the software to read the VID from the 360 HDDVD drive (and published it here in doom9), have disclosure the format of Wii and Gamecube optical discs and release tools and info on debugging commands of drives, full disclosure the Wii signing bug, and a lot more stuff, and never has been censured in any way in sites very similar from this...

anyway I'm 99.999% sure this is in the line of doom9, unless the info is under copyright (or at least what 99.999% that we understand as copyright)...

hope to see what the non-filtered internet with access to the far east can have access.

also when you post a thread in the general forum regarding copyright, jurisdiction, DMCA, doom9 policy put a link in this thread to give an interesting read :)

sorry my english,
--xt5

Well, I'll study first the patent you provided, it may be at the first glance more relevant that what I've found yesterday at work. While the patents do not lie (they are checked against technical background), the hacker sites offer personal "experiences". The links are gone now, I'll do another search only if the links are more relevant than the patent. I'll post (patents) or PM you (links) accordingly.

PS: As I'll explain later in the copyright thread, it doesn't matter if you're located in Chile - the very same thing as provoking a car accident in UK then trying to escape the law for being a foreign citizen. ;)

PS2: Everything is copyrighted. Indeed.

Doom9
5th July 2009, 14:58
It's a common mistake most people does, incuding the moderators, of what copyrighted does actually mean - if they understood it then Rule 6 would have been completely different drafted. Rule 6 practically closes down Doom9.org for good - since more than 99.999% of the posts actually infringes this rule. It's the doom for doom9, if I may a joke. So it's on the moderator to decide whether a link or the content of the post is "of questionable nature".Don't you think it's the least bit arrogant, nay preposterous, of you to come here and tell us not only how to run this place but what our rules really mean? Don't answer that.. just make sure you never bring anything like that up ever again.

Ghitulescu
6th July 2009, 09:36
So here we are: public information

go back where you found your patent or goto to espacenet of epo.org and read these patents:
EP1528557 - appears to be more relevant than yours
EP0724264 - less relevant, however it's nice to notice the publication date ;)

Espacenet lets you browse the category G11B20/00P which contains all the protections ;)

It's better than what I've found in internet, at least because it's in English.