GPU decoding on ATi ?

[zxspectrum]

I just saw ATi recently released stream sdk 1.4 beta that supports interoperability with DirectX API. Shouldnt that ease development of a GPU accelerated frameserver for ATI cards ?

[nm]

Only if the new API version provides access to the video decoding hardware (UVD). I don't think it does. Direct3D interoperability is irrelevant.

[Cyber-Mav]

yes, ati stream is vastly inferior to cuda. its a shame really since ati cards can and are allowed to support cuda. its just ati that refuse to officially support it.

but media player classic home cinema seems to do dxva decoding for ati cards. although it doesnt work on any of my ati cards.

[Sharktooth]

CUDA is a proprietary tech...
ATI (AMD) chosen the open standards.

[squid_80]

What are you talking about? How is CUDA any more proprietary than Stream?

[leeperry]

What are you talking about? How is CUDA any more proprietary than Stream?
hehe, everyone will blame CoreCodec for not supporting Stream....it had to be expected :devil:

[squid_80]

The trick to getting your products supported is to give developers what they need (access to UVD). But that's got nothing to do with my comment. I was wondering if Sharktooth was aware that OpenCL uses basically the same API as CUDA.

[leeperry]

The trick to getting your products supported is to give developers what they need (access to UVD). But that's got nothing to do with my comment.
oh sure, all I'm saying is that ATi don't do their homework, yet they make public promises to end users :rolleyes:

[Sharktooth]

The trick to getting your products supported is to give developers what they need (access to UVD). But that's got nothing to do with my comment. I was wondering if Sharktooth was aware that OpenCL uses basically the same API as CUDA.
yep, but OpenCL is an open standard...

[squid_80]

... which is basically the same as "proprietary" CUDA. Really not surprising since the Khronos Group (in charge of OpenCL) president is also the VP of embedded content at Nvidia.

[dattrax]

It already does GPU decoding via the powerdvd plugin. I use zoomplayer and the codecs from my powerdvd installation. Uses about 1% cpu usage

[nm]

It already does GPU decoding via the powerdvd plugin. I use zoomplayer and the codecs from my powerdvd installation. Uses about 1% cpu usage
Sure, that's DXVA. But you can't get the decoded frames back from the graphics card by using the DXVA API.

[CruNcher]

One thing is sure everyone could do marketing in these times better then the guy who is currently in charge of it @ ATI they had enough time to react to NVIDIAs Openness Attack they didn't i wrote endless times about it here too they just failed in my eyes in a very big area, not sure if they can really say we haven't enough resources to provide this people demand the Openness of the UVD core and they don't react it's a pity :( whatever the reasons. Nvidia even attacked on both sides Linux/Windows providing this to the masses on their demand and made new profitable (developer) connections with it so it helps both sides they globaly improve it daily as we speak with the help of 100s of 3rd Party Developers, for sure it will also help them a lot in their further release cycles speaking about PV4. Though it really shows that ATI isn't the ATI anymore before the fusion when the name ATI stand for perfect Video Quality and Research back in the 90ies :( Nvidia did so much to conquer ground their over the years not only keeping the eye entirely on 3D Research and they did a excellent job with all kind of Research and even final Product releases always faster then ATI in the last years. No doubt Ati still does a excellent job i would say most of it though these days goes into 3D Research their Hardware seems still more Advanced in both areas but a little more Openness on the Video side of things wouldn't be bad :)

[leeperry]

CUDA is a small fish, not worth the energy for ATi I think...before the 4850, everyone said ATi would go bankrupt anytime soon.
some investors put $$$ in the basket, and 99% of their market target are gamers....they go where the money is, what's to blame?

nvidia is having a hard time releasing new chips, so they improve the software....yet their investors would prolly prefer the other way around ;)

[CruNcher]

Sorry but if 99% of their market target are Gamers they would have reacted accordingly to Nvidias TWIMTBP Program back then they failed their too another major hit i would say that pushed Nvidia even further into that Market and they do almost exactly the same error again now in the other area.
And imho i like Balance so both parts of the side have to give some value and currently i see only more value in ATI Products in 3D then in Video :) and Nvidia provides a very nice balanced Product in the end it depends what you need and prefer i was long time ATI Gfx users starting with the Mach Chip then i changed from here to there between Nvidia and ATI TNT2/9800PRO Geforce 3 and so on and currently im on the 8800GT (G92) which i find was the greatest value back then for me and Nvidia didn't lied back then this card is a special one in the Product cycle of theirs and it still does a excellent job, my next card will be the one that provides the best Power per Watt and best Energy Saving currently i see neither of both providing this yet correctly, but im almost sure ATI will provide this first :)

Both Draw currently overall :)


ATI GPU
-----------
+Good Power per Watt Performance
-Medium Power Saving
-Medium Driver Development
+Stream (OpenCL)
+Open Source Driver
- No UVD1/2 core SDK

NVIDIA GPU
-----------
-Not so good Power per Watt
+Excellent Driver Development
-Medium Power Saving
+CUDA (OpenCL)
-No Open Source Driver
+VP2/PV2 Core SDK (available for everyone)

[leeperry]

well about TWIMTBP, mostly nvidia helps game coders.....where ATi can't afford anything like that, so they patch, patch and patch again their drivers so they act nicely in games. they mostly reverse engineer nvidia work IMO, as random as it can get....I've seen many 4850 owners complaining about new drivers that killed older games support.

a graphic card is nothing w/o proper drivers, but fanboys buy benchmarks results not drivers ;)

my GF9600 has lower 2D clocks, that I could lower even further if I wanted to....but I actually patched the BIOS to disable that, it messes w/ my custom timings/Reclock stability :o

[G_M_C]

Sorry but if 99% of their market target are Gamers they would have reacted accordingly to Nvidias TWIMTBP Program back then they failed their too another major hit i would say that pushed Nvidia even further into that Market and they do almost exactly the same error again now in the other area.
And imho i like Balance so both parts of the side have to give some value and currently i see only more value in ATI Products in 3D then in Video :) and Nvidia provides a very nice balanced Product in the end it depends what you need and prefer i was long time ATI Gfx users starting with the Mach Chip then i changed from here to there between Nvidia and ATI TNT2/9800PRO Geforce 3 and so on and currently im on the 8800GT (G92) which i find was the greatest value back then for me and Nvidia didn't lied back then this card is a special one in the Product cycle of theirs and it still does a excellent job, my next card will be the one that provides the best Power per Watt and best Energy Saving currently i see neither of both providing this yet correctly, but im almost sure ATI will provide this first :)

Both Draw currently overall :)


ATI GPU
-----------
+Good Power per Watt Performance
-Medium Power Saving
-Medium Driver Development
+Stream (OpenCL)
+Open Source Driver
- No UVD1/2 core SDK

NVIDIA GPU
-----------
-Not so good Power per Watt
+Excellent Driver Development
-Medium Power Saving
+CUDA (OpenCL)
-No Open Source Driver
+VP2/PV2 Core SDK (available for everyone)


I see at least one thing that Ati has above Nv, that yoy havent mentioned;
Newer Ati cards have the abillity to decode HD audio formats & stream them as 7.1 PCM through HDMI. Nv has not got that, so if you want anything similar with an Nv card, you need to buy one of the expensive HDMI audio cards (Asus / Auzentech).

The abillity to decode&stream HD audio formats is very interesting to HTPC builders. To bad Ati hasnt picked up on that marketshare, by also providing good video decoding + support (like Nv has with Neuron2 for instance). Cause very usable audio-options should go hand in hand with very usable video options (and not beeing stuck to overpriced brands, or bloatware, like PDVD).

PS: If Nvidia is smart, they "broadside" Ati by adding a audio-capable cart to ther line-up. Call it the Home-theatre version/line-up, and possible add some HDMI 1.3 features too. And that what would we have ? The shure choise for many of us ;)

[nm]

I see at least one thing that Ati has above Nv, that yoy havent mentioned;
Newer Ati cards have the abillity to decode HD audio formats & stream them as 7.1 PCM through HDMI. Nv has not got that, so if you want anything similar with an Nv card, you need to buy one of the expensive HDMI audio cards (Asus / Auzentech).
ATI cards do not decode HD audio, they only support 7.1 LPCM bitstreaming. Decoding is done by software, such as Cyberlink's PowerDVD or FFmpeg/libavcodec.

NVIDIA 8200/8300 and 9300/9400 mGPUs also support HDMI 1.3 and 8-channel LPCM output. These integrated solutions are quite interesting for HTPC enthusiasts -- especially the 65 nm 9300/9400 chips that are a bit more energy-efficient. AFAIK, AMD/ATI does not yet offer an integrated GPU with 8-channel LCPM support.

The abillity to decode&stream HD audio formats is very interesting to HTPC builders. To bad Ati hasnt picked up on that marketshare, by also providing good video decoding + support (like Nv has with Neuron2 for instance). Cause very usable audio-options should go hand in hand with very usable video options (and not beeing stuck to overpriced brands, or bloatware, like PDVD).
Well, any properly implemented DXVA decoder works with ATI's hardware just fine. MPC-HC is a viable alternative to PowerDVD.

[leeperry]

NVIDIA 8200/8300 and 9300/9400 mGPUs also support HDMI 1.3
no kidding? :eek:

hopefully, they will also add it to their next PCI-E cards, so we'll finally get 10bit output :cool:

[Cyber-Mav]

is it the 8200/8300/8400 and 9300/9400 cards that also use VPU3??

[nm]

is it the 8200/8300/8400 and 9300/9400 cards that also use VPU3??
Yes, those that are G98 chips. There are also G86 8400 GS and G96 9400 GT cards that only have VP2.

[leeperry]

http://www.amdzone.com/index.php/news/37/8998-nvidia-geforce-8200-hdmi-13-compliant

I'll wait for PCI-E graphic cards, their chipsets are known to have very high RMA rates and lousy compatiblity..