DTS MA Encoder

[keysersose]

I'm looking for a DTS MA encoder - purpose to backup 5.1 DVD-A and SACD discs to a lossless format..

Thanks

[ron spencer]

you have thousands and thousands of dollars?

DTS have just effectively stuck the boot right in as far as the new HD DVD and BRD codecs all go with the announcement of their new series of HD encoders.
At a list price of $1495 for the DTS-HD Master Audio Suite and $795 for the DTS-HD Surround Audio Suite, the prices compared to Dolby's True HD Media Encoder are far more realistic - and more importantly affordable.
(Dolby's True HD Media Encoder is a whopping $8,000)

Other benefits are perhaps a little more subtle as the Dolby version - if used in Lossless mode, also encodes a second core stream containing the original Dolby Digital codec as well whereas the DTS encoders do everything in one core stream with all the bells & whistles being contained in the extensions.
Also - perhaps even more importantly - DTS-HD is the ONLY one that is actually mandated - fully - for both BRD and HD DVD.
The Dolby lossless is mandated for stereo only.....

[ron spencer]

I meant at least in the thousands....

[keysersose]

Post deleted

[neuron2]

@keysersose

Please remember and follow rule 6. Don't discuss such things here.

[shon3i]

Use FLAC instead becuase is more complex and offer better compession ratios than DTS-MA, if you don't care about hardware compatability. Anyway for DTS-MA you need Blu-ray player probably.

[keysersose]

Use FLAC instead becuase is more complex and offer better compession ratios than DTS-MA, if you don't care about hardware compatability. Anyway for DTS-MA you need Blu-ray player probably.

with DTS-MA I would make the discs as AVCHD so that cheap DVD blanks can be used..or albums can be kept as ISO files on your HD..

and yes a Blu-ray player is needed and that's the main reason for doing this - it's very likely that at some point no one will continue to make players that can play both SACD and DVD-A discs, but BR players will be with us for quite some time..

[rica]

with DTS-MA I would make the discs as AVCHD so that cheap DVD blanks can be used..or albums can be kept as ISO files on your HD..

and yes a Blu-ray player is needed and that's the main reason for doing this - it's very likely that at some point no one will continue to make players that can play both SACD and DVD-A discs, but BR players will be with us for quite some time..

BTW, i wonder if it is possible to rip SACDs?
If you know how to, i'd be appreciated.

[keysersose]

BTW, i wonder if it is possible to rip SACDs?
If you know how to, i'd be appreciated.

There is no way to read and rip from a PC - I have though converted my SACD collection over to DVD-A..

you plug your player into a multichannel soundcard and record the 6 mono waves then re-encode into MLP..

I have a new sound card that has HDMI in so hopefully I can record the discs and avoid the D->A conversion

I haven't tried yet till I could go the DTS-MA route

[rica]

There is no way to read and rip from a PC - I have though converted my SACD collection over to DVD-A..



How and over what cable?

[keysersose]

How and over what cable?

you connect 6 cables from your EXTERNAL SACD player into a soundcard with 6 analog inputs..

new card is HDMI so just one HDMI cable from external sacd player into the card..

[rica]

you connect 6 cables from your EXTERNAL SACD player into a soundcard with 6 analog inputs..

new card is HDMI so just one HDMI cable from external sacd player into the card..

I wonder really what card has 6 analog inputs or what SACD player has HDMI output?

[ron spencer]

In any case this is an ANALOG signal...and it is not passing high resolution anyway. Only way to get full digital is a hack to player to pass toslink out to card with toslink in.

no sacd has hdmi I think

[rica]

In any case this is an ANALOG signal...and it is not passing high resolution anyway.

I beg your pardon???

[ron spencer]

he is passing hi resolution audio throught the 5.1 out on back on unit via analog cable...this is not same as sending the audio via digital out (toslink). The high-resolution audio (say 96/24) is being processed by the DA converters on the player. So the poster is not capturing full bandwidth audio. DVD-A and SVCD do not permit full audio resolution pass through of digital audio data via toslink (digital out) or by coax (digital out). Digital out is only way to capute the audio data unimpeded, but as I said, this is not permitted in the DVD-A, SACD world for copy protection reasons. Only way can be done is to rip to hard drive, which you cannot for SACD.

from hydrogenaudio forums:

First, you (normally) can't read SACD data using your standard DVD ROM drive.

Second, even if you could read it, the data is strongly encrypted.

Third, even if you could decrypt it, it's compressed by a proprietary lossless compression method.

Fourth, even if you could decompress it, the stream format (DSD) is unreadable by most audio processing software.


SACD has copy protection on the physical level, similar to how Playstation 2 discs are copy protected. The data is encrypted and the key stored in an area of the disc not readable by anything except an SACD device. This is similar to the PS2 copy protection where a code is stored in an area of the disc which can't be read by conventional devices. This also prevents the code being written by a standard burner. Both technologies are designed so only pressing the disc will copy the code (or key in the case of SACD).

To read an SACD, you'd need a reader with an adjusted focal length suitable for reading SACD discs (the standard 1.2 mm length will give you the CD audio track if it's a hybrid or nothing if it's SACD only). The reader would also have to be capable of reading the encryption key. Even if you did this you'd be stuck with a Direct Stream Digital stream and as rjamorim said there are very few tools capable of working with a DSD stream.

The only feasible method of losslessly capturing SACD audio at the moment would be a device that captured data after the decryption stage but before the digital to analog stage. You'd need to modify a hardware SACD player to do this.

[keysersose]

The former audio card was a M-Audio 1010 - it had the 6 analog ins

My new card is the ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe Sound card - 192 kHz - 24-bit - It has HDMI in

The Oppo 980 has HDMI out and will convert SACD to 24/96 LPCM and send this out via HDMI..this signal remains digital..

[ron spencer]

That is cool, but signal is transformed from Sony DSD to PCM, which is not completely lossless, but probably acceptable. DTSMA is not needed. Keep LPCM or use FLAC

[keysersose]

That is cool, but signal is transformed from Sony DSD to PCM, which is not completely lossless, but probably acceptable. DTSMA is not needed. Keep LPCM or use FLAC


well yes sure I could do what I already have (Ie convert over to DVD-A) but I'm looking at DTSMA simply to go Bluray - I have a MC DVD-A player in the car and I can see these no longer being available soon - whereas I'm sure there will be affordable BR players for the car in a couple of years..

I have no experience with MC Flac - what options would I have to play them on standalone players both for your car and HT? - I would not want to be forced to use a PC to play them..

[ron spencer]

well for me I think you are out of luck as no encoder exiasts for u. stick to dvd-a only then...sorry. FLAC is not used on car decks..why do you need high resolution audio for a card deck anyway? Seems more trouble than it is worth. The exercise is fun to figure it out, but in the long run, you are still stuck becuse there is no working dtsma encoder for "regular" people.

Good luck in any case....

[keysersose]

I am a surround sound fanatic with only so much time to listen to MC music in the HT - having DVD-A in the car gives me time to listen to 2 MC albums a day..

[specise_8472]

I wonder really what card has 6 analog inputs or what SACD player has HDMI output?

My M-Audio Delta 10/10 has 6 inputs.
My marantz DV9500 has HDMI. But sadly, no SACD over HDMI. I think this is a feature that we will rearly see, and if implemented, will be subject to HDCP.

[Elektra999]

Hi specise_8472
My DV600 Pioneer has HDMI and Motherboard ASUS M3N WS HDMI, connected to Denon 2808CI is decoded in PCM Multichannel (SACD and MLP).

Another question is that, I installed the ASIO4ALL and Sony Sound Forge 9:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5928/dispositivohdmienwindow.jpg

8 Channels HDMI Audio for the playback :) 7.1 Surround.

[cscsacsa]

I think the Dolby True HD is better thand dtsHD.

[ACrowley]

I think the Dolby True HD is better thand dtsHD.

no, both Formats (whne its DTS HD MA) are lossless ,so the quality is the same :)

[specise_8472]

Anyway, Dolby True HD is only MLP Encoding. They did not develop it. Oh I suppose just adding their header to it makes it that they developed it.

[cscsacsa]

The MLP is a losless. Or not? I have some 24/96 sacd transcoded Dolby TrueHD disc, in a special BD format. I think that's very good quality. And I have some dtshd audio... I don't understand what is a different. I made some transcoding from dtshd toTrueHd, I don1t find great difference...

[cscsacsa]

I would like to wonder what are a different from two lossless format. Who say somting he tested it or write because this an opinion. I have an THD Encoder with realy old MLP core, but this core is good. I don't hear different...
Any idea?

[keysersose]

I would like to wonder what are a different from two lossless format. Who say somting he tested it or write because this an opinion. I have an THD Encoder with realy old MLP core, but this core is good. I don't hear different...
Any idea?


In theory there would be NO difference encoding between Dolby THD and DTS-MA..using MLP as the core is lossless and both THD and DTS-MA keep it lossless..

[madshi]

There is no such thing as an "MLP core". TrueHD has no core. DTS-HD Master Audio has a core which is conventional (lossy) DTS.

[keysersose]

There is no such thing as an "MLP core". TrueHD has no core. DTS-HD Master Audio has a core which is conventional (lossy) DTS.


I think what he means here is that if his source was an MLP track, from say a DVD-audio disc, and re-encoded it, there would be no sound quality difference if it was re-encoded with either THD or DTS-MA..

I am the one looking for a DTS-MA encoder and his point is that I could use THD instead and get the same results..

since then I have another thread going about BDAudio here and DeanK is looking at integrating a BDAudio app into his programs..

[jolson]

What he may have meant is that the core of source code for Dolby True HD comes from the MLP used in DVD-Audio. Meridian licensed that to Dolby.

The DTS-MA package has the upper hand on Dolby True HD for a (rich) home user: the included DTS-HD Streamplayer. It can run on your music server and be controlled from another PC, like a laptop. And it can play absolutely all variants there are of DTS.

There are people that transfer multi-channel SACD 100% digitally to a PC, usually for reauthoring to DVD-A. It requires a modified player and (usually) three soundcards with world clock.

You can archive DVD-A as "Mini-Blu-ray" discs. I believe TsMuxer is used to create this mini-BD and burn it to a single- or dual-layer DVD.

[keysersose]

I too converted my SACD collection over to DVD-A using an analog MC card - I'm waiting to buy a Xonar Slim card and plan to redo the SACD's but this time stay all digital..

I have another thread going here about BDAudio and plan on converting all my DVD-A and SACD over to AVCHD in case standalone DVD-A players become obsolete..

thanks for pointing out the DTS stream Player - I *love* the idea of having my entire hires collection converted over to DTS-MA and playable on a media server..

[banker_rishad]

DTS mas is available free on the net, but wont work as it requires dongle

[ACrowley]

DTS mas is available free on the net, but wont work as it requires dongle

yeah, you can download the Full Versipn uptodate from their Site....But you must pay/buy the License with Dongle.
Thats the Deal...:)

[xkodi]

yeah, you can download the Full Versipn uptodate from their Site....But you must pay/buy the License with Dongle.
Thats the Deal...:)

actually, it seems that in DTS-HD MAS version 1.1 the DTSEncSubBandProc.dll is not protected by the Dongle.