List of BD-Rebuilder Compatible Players (BD5\BD9 output)

[setarip_old]

@exterminater

I would VERY STRONGLY suggest that you read and understand the clear statements of fact made by "jdobbs" regarding ANYTHING to do with Blu-ray presented in this and all other threads - in this and any other forum and/or subforum.

His depth of knowledge regarding this topic is nothing short of remarkable ;>}

Also, do not confuse "But this works for me with this player under these circumstances" with "This is compliant with Blu-ray standards"

[xterminater]

jdobbs... so what you are saying is I have to add the override in order to keep the DTS audio if converted to BD5 or BD9 without the strict avchd checked?

[Music Fan]

I believe that my explanation was clear enough about the difference between AVCHD format and the MultiAVCHD's format. You are talking very seriously about a problem which is not that important.
Come on guys, xterminater just want to copy a movie to read it on his player, he's not going to create a disc which is supposed to be sold. In this case, I wouldn't recommend to create a hybrid format with MultiAVCHD.
We are on a forum for passionate people with a lot of "vanguard" softwares that we like to test, and I guess that xterminater knows it.
Anyway, as I already said (and as you surely know), most of players (if not all) play Dts on discs created by MultiAVCHD, even if it's not mentioned in their manual.
I would understand your message if 10 % of players only could play MultiAVCHD's disc, but it's not the case, it's probably more than 90 %.
In this situation (the reality, not the theory !), your remarks look like serious omissions. This extreme prudence is a nonsense and is disproportionate compared to the xterminater's objective. He has the right to know what hundreds of other forumers already know.
I like to help people to achieve what they like to do (if possible), and my remark on MultiAVCHD is probably more useful for him than your exaggerated caution.

No we're not both right.
Yes we are. You're right saying that AVCHD can't contain DTS and I'm right when I say that the MultiAVCHD's AVCHD can contain DTS.
The fact that deank didn't chose another name to designate his format is not my fault. And it's not his fault, because he took this name from TSMuxer (which is used by MultiAVCHD). Anyway, I explained the nuance in my first answer which was more complete than yours.

you can multiplex anything into an M2TS and call it AVCHD. You can also put racing stripes on a turd and call it a Ferrari. But it's isn't.
You're exaggerating again, there is a lot in common between the AVCHD (the one and only according to you) and the so called AVCHD produced by MultiAVCHD.

You are spouting nonsense -- and it is my responsibility to call you on it.
Your attitude is a nonsense, mine is realistic. You can blindly follow standard if it amuses you, it's not my case. Would you forbid anyone to use Xvid on a player which is supposed to read Divx5 only, even if you knew that it could play Xvid ?
If everybody thought like you, MultiAVCHD wouldn't exist (as many other softwares shared on doom9).
Sorry but it had to be said. I tried to understand your point of view, try to understand mine. And I'm far to be alone in this situation. Read the MultiAVCHD's topic, you will understand what I mean.
It's amazing, I nearly feel to be guilty of a crime while I helped someone.

[Music Fan]

jdobbs... so what you are saying is I have to add the override in order to keep the DTS audio if converted to BD5 or BD9 without the strict avchd checked?
Try multiAVCHD, it's more complete. And a lot of people will be able to answer your questions on its topic.

[jdobbs]

@Music Fan

You just don't get it do you? Some people just can't admit when they are wrong. It is clear to me that you don't even know what AVCHD is. Otherwise you wouldn't be trying so hard to make is sound like something else.

It is a big deal -- because this kind of misinformation floating around is exactly why YOU are so confused. What's disturbing is that you don't even know it -- and when I try to help you understand, you continue to argue that somehow there are two AVCHD standards for no reason other than an inability to accept that you are wrong.

But from here on out I'll leave it alone... I think I made my point and if you want to go on believing nonsense, so be it.

You can blindly follow standard if it amuses you This is a joke, right? If we didn't follow standards there would be no H.264 (X264), no MPEG, no M2TS, no DVD, no Blu-ray, no PES, no NTSC, no PAL -- pretty much nothing would work.
And I'm far to be alone in this situation. Read the MultiAVCHD's topic So if a group of people decide that lipstick makes a pig a good date -- we all should agree?

[jdobbs]

jdobbs... so what you are saying is I have to add the override in order to keep the DTS audio if converted to BD5 or BD9 without the strict avchd checked? Yes. It is a hidden option to help protect people from accidentally thinking they are creating AVCHD when they choose to keep non-standard streams.

[Music Fan]

@ jdobbs
Come on, you are becoming funny.
I said at least three times that MultiAVCHD didn't make the real AVCHD format but something close to it.
I know certainly as well as you what AVCHD is, i read a lot on it and made a lot of tests.
I'm not confused at all, I only try to be more complete and helpful than you.
As moderator, you could have guided xterminater to MultiAVCHD (or any other software in the same kind if it exists), because you should have known that it could help him, even if it doesn't respect the AVCHD norm. But as far as I know, he didn't insist to create a disc respecting absolutely the AVCHD norm, he just wants to play it on his standalone player, nothing else.

[jdobbs]

On and on you go, listening to your own voice, wishing to be right, fighting to be right... but you are still, in the final analysis, simply wrong. Suck it up and move on.

[Music Fan]

What a bad faith ! (sorry, it's a translation from french, I don't know if you say that in english).
I'm not wrong because I only said what MultiAVCHD could do and that most of player could play it, there is nothing wrong in that, hundreds of people tested this program.
Let's admit that you made an omission, it's not a huge problem, but don't try to make believe I'm wrong, its dishonest.

[jdobbs]

It's false. Actually, we can put all formats on AVCHD (Dts, Dolby True HD, DTS HD, PCM 7.1, ...). Are you saying that you didn't say this? Or are you saying that you're talking about "another" AVCHD? I've looked all over the place -- and I can only find one. You mentioned the "real" one... what other one is there? Can you point me to where it is documented? What committee approved it? I'm an engineer and I depend on standards. Is there another "meter" that is a different length than the one I'm using? Another "mile"? Another "kilogram"? I guess I'm just "blindly following" those standards as well.

Go to the WIKI on AVCHD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD) and show me where your point is supported. There are lots of references on the bottom. There is also a table showing acceptable audio formats. Add a reference that shows how all those audio formats you mentioned are supported.

That is the point. Either talk about AVCHD, or talk about something that isn't.

[xterminater]

jdobbs... so even without the strict AVCHD mode check and just selecting the BD9 for the output... BD-RB automatically reencode the original bluray contents to avchd AND convert the DTS stream to AC3? So it would not be possible to literally just shrink down a blu-ray dvd to DVD9 without converting the main video file to avchd and convert audio to ac3? Does bluray structure different a lot from DVD because I know when you encode DVD9 to DVD5 it retains the same vob and ifo structure but for BD-RB I believe it makes it to one big avchd file right?

[jdobbs]

jdobbs... so even without the strict AVCHD mode check and just selecting the BD9 for the output... BD-RB automatically reencode the original bluray contents to avchd AND convert the DTS stream to AC3? So it would not be possible to literally just shrink down a blu-ray dvd to DVD9 without converting the main video file to avchd and convert audio to ac3? Does bluray structure different a lot from DVD because I know when you encode DVD9 to DVD5 it retains the same vob and ifo structure but for BD-RB I believe it makes it to one big avchd file right? Yes. Blu-ray is considerably different from DVD. The Blu-ray BD-25 standard make lots of assumptions that can't be followed on blank DVD discs like bitrates that exceed what a DVD can support. The AVCHD standard was developed to support simpler form of hi-def on other media (like DVD-R or flash media). It was mainly meant for home-recordings, but has lots of capability built in.

BD-RB uses AVCHD for movie-only -- that way it can support it on the largest number of players. The blu-ray standard actually includes a BD-9 format with associated bitrate and format limitations. You can see a nice summary of the Blu-ray standards at the authoritative BD FAQ (http://www.hughsnews.ca/faqs/authoritative-blu-ray-disc-bd-faq). When you do a full backup to BD-5/9, the BD9 standard is used. Unfortunately there are only a very limited number of players that will support it -- that's why AVCHD is the preferred format for hi-def DVD output.

[Music Fan]

@ jdobbs
I was sure that you were going to make this quote without the next sentence ! It was so predictable.
Either talk about AVCHD, or talk about something that isn't.
My second sentence was very clear ;
What you say only concern the "real" AVCHD created by AVCHD cameras, but most of players can play the discs created with MultiAVCHD, which are a mix of AVCHD and BD (even in strict mode).
All is said. I believe that this explanation is sufficient for most of people who are trying to copy a movie.

You mentioned the "real" one... what other one is there?
The MultiAVCHD's one, the most known format of this kind on audio/video forums, even if it's not THE AVCHD. As i said, it's not my fault if we see the name "AVCHD" when we create a project with MultiAVCHD.

Can you point me to where it is documented? What committee approved it?
We don't care, most of people want to play discs on their standalone player, not to know the exact theory !

I'm an engineer and I depend on standards.
Ok, I understand better now why you are so rigid and why you play on words not pretending not to understand, while you understand very well what I mean.

Get real!!!
I was going to say you exactly the same thing ! You are blinded by theory and you forget reality, the simple words that help users being cool and understanding (especially with people whose mother tongue is not english, which is my case, as you surely noted).

listening to your own voice
It's what you do !
Don't lose your time trying to explain me things I already know.

[xterminater]

according to drmih, the samsung he has should be able to play full back up to dvd9 :) I will try that once I get my player and hopefully that will work out so at least I get to keep the menu!

[jdobbs]

according to drmih, the samsung he has should be able to play full back up to dvd9 :) I will try that once I get my player and hopefully that will work out so at least I get to keep the menu! When you get that one you should be able to do full backups. There are still some limitations. For example HD audio isn't supported (a single HD audio track can be larger than a DVD can hold).

[jdobbs]

@Music Fan

Ok... I've made my point clear and you've made yours. xterminator was looking for useful information and now he's having to dig through this crap, and I've got better things to do than continue to argue the intuitively obvious. I am instructing you as a moderator to stop. Any further posts will be on topic. Rules 3, 4, and 16 are in effect now -- the next argumentative post will result in a strike.

[xterminater]

jdobbs, do u know why they made the audio so huge when our ears can't realy differenciate? I mean going from dolby to DTS is a huge difference but to HD audio that is like almost impossible to hear.

[jdobbs]

jdobbs, do u know why they made the audio so huge when our ears can't realy differenciate? I mean going from dolby to DTS is a huge difference but to HD audio that is like almost impossible to hear. It's much more "salesmanship" than "engineering". If you want to sell new copies of old movies -- you need to include something new.

All the double-blind tests show that the difference isn't detectable once you get to a certain bitrate -- but you still have people with "miracle ears" who swear they can hear it.

Of course now I've opened myself up for another "expert" to contradict me.

[Capsbackup]

All the double-blind tests show that the difference isn't detectable once you get to a certain bitrate -- but you still have people with "miracle ears" who swear they can hear it.

Of course now I've opened myself up for another "expert" to contradict me.

Well my eyes are not the best anymore ( not quite double blind) :o, and my ears leave some to be desired! :rolleyes:

I certainly can't distinguish between HD audio and DD 5.1, but what I do "see" is my receiver says DTS HD MSTR or True HD. So i guess my "eyes" can still "hear" my BD-25 backups HD audio, and I guess that makes me "feel" better! :p

But most of my backups still are to BD5/9, and I am most pleased with both the audio and video quality. I have never been disappointed yet! :)
But I am starting to come around more to the fact that a BD-25 backup can be completed much faster than BD5/9, and with the capacity of BD-25 I do not see any quality loss if I do keep the HD audio. And with the price of BD-25 media becoming very reasonable, this makes good sense.

So I thank you jdobbs for being able to make any and all of these choices! :thanks:

[jdobbs]

Well my eyes are not the best anymore ( not quite double blind) :o, and my ears leave some to be desired! :rolleyes:

I certainly can't distinguish between HD audio and DD 5.1, but what I do "see" is my receiver says DTS HD MSTR or True HD. So i guess my "eyes" can still "hear" my BD-25 backups HD audio, and I guess that makes me "feel" better! :p

But most of my backups still are to BD5/9, and I am most pleased with both the audio and video quality. I have never been disappointed yet! :)
But I am starting to come around more to the fact that a BD-25 backup can be completed much faster than BD5/9, and with the capacity of BD-25 I do not see any quality loss if I do keep the HD audio. And with the price of BD-25 media becoming very reasonable, this makes good sense.

So I thank you jdobbs for being able to make any and all of these choices! :thanks: I'm glad you're getting good use out of it. Yeah, I'm doing less-and-less BD-5/9. Everytime I see a good deal on blank BD-25's I grab some while the getting is good... and it's getting to the point that they're only a few cents more expensive than BD-9. What I really like is how resilient to scratches they are. I seem to always manage to scratch up my DVDs somehow (which is why I need backups).

I agree with you... if you're backing up to BD-25, you might just as well keep the HD audio. The space is there and I never like to "downgrade" anything unless it's necessary. I really don't care if I can hear it -- sometimes it's enough just to know its there ;). The exception might be a really tightly packed series disc or a case where I'm consolidating things. Just for giggles I used multiAVCHD this week to take my whole 1st season of "Bonanza" from 8 DVDs and put it all in one folder. I then used BD-RB to compress it to a BD-25. It looks pretty darn good. Way cool.

[Ghitulescu]

How about using the specialized thread for dealing with your problem with BD-RB? This is the compatibility of a player with BD-RB, now about how slow encodes your PC ....

[jdobbs]

How about using the specialized thread for dealing with your problem with BD-RB? This is the compatibility of a player with BD-RB, now about how slow encodes your PC .... Moved to a thread of its own. It really wasn't even a bug post, more a "How long should it take?" post. Actually I should probably move a whole string of arguments about the AVCHD standard somewhere else as well...

[xterminater]

sorry jdobbs... i didn't want to keep moving back and forth since we are discussing at the list of compatible BD5 and BD9 I figured I am doing BD9 so I posted here... and ghitulescu ... that tone of voice will not get u anywhere so unless u are either helping out, don't complain.

[xterminater]

Here's my result with the Samsung BD-C5900:

-Full Backups with java menu works for BD5 AND BD9 encodes
-Movies Only for BD5 AND BD9
-MKV, XVID, DIVX, X264, MP3, AVI, basically all format that it lists

Thank you to drmih for this recommendation! This player is now my favorite blu-ray player! Another good thing is that it's touched activated, no buttons on the front :) It's now on sale for $133 at amazon, shipping not included. I recommend using www.eastcoasttvs.com for anyone located on the east coasts to get free shipping. They are selling it for only $150 shipped. For a limited time you get 2% off as well.

[Ameic]

Thanks DRMIH for confirming my free DB-C5900 is worth keeping :)

[Ghitulescu]

sorry jdobbs... i didn't want to keep moving back and forth since we are discussing at the list of compatible BD5 and BD9 I figured I am doing BD9 so I posted here... and ghitulescu ... that tone of voice will not get u anywhere so unless u are either helping out, don't complain.

First learn to search, then how to select the right thread (it comes naturally but only after you searched a bit to see how things get organised).

And I am complaining because I always perform a search before asking, and people like you that post everywhere where they think they get the attention simply poison the results with unwanted noise. Of course, people that do not search but jump directly to questions are not affected by this ... :)

[gg72]

Here's my result with the Samsung BD-C5900:

Can play this Samsung C5900 AVCHD discs in 24p? My Panasonic BD85 plays AVCHD only in 60p unfortunately...

[Ch3vr0n]

Can play this Samsung C5900 AVCHD discs in 24p? My Panasonic BD85 plays AVCHD only in 60p unfortunately...

Thats nonsence mate. I've got the dmp-bd85 myself and i output in 24p. Follow the below mentioned button sequence.

On your remote hit:

Function menu > Other (if thats what its called in english) > Setup > Connections TV / Devices (or similar)

In that menu just below your "TV-Aspect" should be an entry called "HDMI-Connection". Select it and enter the menu. There should be an entry called "24p Output". Set that one to "On/enabled" and your Blu-rays will be output at 24 frames from now on.

[gg72]

Thats nonsence mate.

This is not nonsence... ;) I have this setup also and on AVCHD playback I haven't 24p output, BD playback is OK. I have an european version of BD85 and in a german forum I found this (the same problem):

Lässt sich beim 85er jetzt endlich auch mal 24p erzwingen? Kannst Du das mal mit einer DVD testen? Denn bei meinem 35er geht das nämlich nicht.
Brauche nämlich einen Player, der eine AVCHD-Disk mit 24p ausgeben kann, zum Kalibrieren mit der AVS-Disk.

Nein, leider funktioniert das bei Panasonic immer noch nicht. Panasonic weigert sich standhaft seit dem DMP-BD30, bei AVCHD Discs, 24p Material enthalten, die 1080p24 Ausgabe zuzulassen.
Außerdem gibt der Player bei BD-Rs/REs, die 720p24 Material enthalten, KEIN 1080p24 aus, sondern nur 1080p60.

[Ghitulescu]

From another German forum and various A/V magazines one can find that 24p output with Panasonic is tricky also for commercial BDs, one needs to set it always in Movie Mode before playing BDs or DVDs. That is another reason why I don't buy Panasonic (the first one was its inability to play some/many AVCHDs).

[laserfan]

For Sony player owners, e.g. S360 and others -- have you updated to most recent 008 firmware, and are there any problems playing your DVD-based backups.

[Capsbackup]

For Sony player owners, e.g. S360 and others -- have you updated to most recent 008 firmware, and are there any problems playing your DVD-based backups.

I have not updated my S360, it still has the original firmware it came with (007).
All my backups work fine, so I am hesitant to update at all.
Do you know what this update addresses?

Found this:
http://esupport.sony.com/CA/perl/swu-download.pl?mdl=BDPS360&upd_id=6155&os_id=46

I dont believe I will update based on this. :cool:

[laserfan]

I have not updated my S360, it still has the original firmware it came with (007).
All my backups work fine, so I am hesitant to update at all.
Do you know what this update addresses?

Found this:
http://esupport.sony.com/CA/perl/swu-download.pl?mdl=BDPS360&upd_id=6155&os_id=46

I dont believe I will update based on this. :cool:I read somewhere that 008 fixed some problems on an S5000, and suspect there is (much?) more to the update than is in the release notes.

But like you perhaps, I am suspicious of what nasties Sony might have sneaked-in there. I don't think there is any way to revert to 007 once "updated"?

[Ch3vr0n]

This is not nonsence... ;) I have this setup also and on AVCHD playback I haven't 24p output, BD playback is OK. I have an european version of BD85 and in a german forum I found this (the same problem):

Whatya think mine is. I live in belgium = R2 = Europe and mine plays 24p just perfectly. The only catch is if you want to play 24p is that your TV has to support 24p playback AND 24p is only supported through HDMI connection. If it doesnt well, then it gets upscaled.

My setup = Panasonic TX-P42S20 + Panasonic DMP-BD85 = blu-ray playback at 24p (24FPS) without even a single problem. Ya just gotta follow the instructions in my previous post.

The BD85 not supporting 24p is complete nonsence:

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Video/Blu-ray-Disc-Players/model.DMP-BD85K.S_11002_7000000000000005702#tabsection
> 1080/24p Playback 14 Yes
> 14: For BD-ROM /BD-R and DVD-Video via HDMI.

I have no issues whatsoever playing back my BD's at 24hz (24p)

[gg72]

My setup = Panasonic TX-P42S20 + Panasonic DMP-BD85 = blu-ray playback at 24p (24FPS) without even a single problem.

Have you read my post carefully? :sly:
My Blu-ray playback at 24p is also OK, I have trouble with AVCHD only, this discs are DVD's and not Blu-rays and my BD85 plays it only in 60p. And I'm not alone with this problem, see my previous post with an quote from a german forum.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whatever. My original question was: Can play the Samsung BD-C5900 AVCHD discs in 24p?

[Ch3vr0n]

Couldnt find anything via google. Did ya try to contact samsung themselves ?

[gg72]

Couldnt find anything via google. Did ya try to contact samsung themselves ?

I have found a person in a forum (in Hungary) an hour ago, he has the Samsung C5900 and I send him tomorrow an AVCHD Disc for testing. Then I will report about the result.

[burticus]

I just picked up a Sony BDP-S370 and was very happy with it until I started playing some backups. Some work fine but others have stuttering audio or distorted screechy sound (the blue alien people movie). My old Pioneer BDP-51FD played all these just fine. These are all movie-only backups, some are bd-25 (keep hd audio) some are bd-9 (downmix to AC3). I have gone through every audio option available. The thing updated to the newest firmware the second I plugged it in.

This sucks because I REALLY LIKE this player. It is LIGHT YEARS faster than my pioneer plus it does all the streaming stuff.

A bd-9 version of the movie I did last night was all stuttery, I'm going to redo it tonight as bd-25 and keep the hd audio to see if it makes a difference (a third story about toys).

This was on sale for $129, if it has to go back to the store what else is comparable that people have good backup experience with? One of the Samsungs or LG? I want to stay in the same price range (under $150) I've read that the Panasonics really suck with backups.

And BTW I am not buying a PS3. I already have a 360.

[jdobbs]

I think the one down side to the S370 is that it doesn't support full backups on DVD-9 (unless the firmware has been updated). Movie-only backups to BD-9 and BD-5 should work fine, though.

[burticus]

I have now been through a ton of discs and half don't play right on the S370. Not life-ending if I can find out what the common denominator is but still not pleasant.

[Ghitulescu]

The last good Sony is the 360 & Co. It's what I intend to buy as a replacement. It's extremely tolerant and accepts a lot of videos that are not BD-compliant. I'm not sure about the last FW revision.
Probably Sony Corp. has reached the market turning point and doesn't care any longer to promote its products as before.

[burticus]

Re: my Sony S370 I have figured out that for BD9's if I select "use 448kbs for AC3", and deselect "strict AVCHD" that stuff works perfectly. I have been re-encoding movies since last week and all the ones I have redone this way work great.

So I'm happy enough, redoing 30ish movies isn't a deal breaker for me. Now if that had been 300, I would be less pleased.

Looks like the Pioneer P51FD will be going on ebay soon, I don't even have an HDTV in my bedroom so no real point to keeping it. Unless I wanted to play 1080p BD9 movies in SD for some reason... hmmmm.

[Capsbackup]

@burticus;
I doubt the 448 kbps AC3 had anything to do with it, but more likely the strict AVCHD. I never have selected strict AVCHD, and almost always use 640kbps AC3 audio. Mine are BX-1 and S360.
I am not sure, but full movie backups may not be affected by the strict AVCHD selection anyway. Just movie only.
If you are doing movie only, you could just copy the BD5/9 back to your hard drive from the disc, demux it with tsMuxeR, and remux with tsMuxer selecting Blu-ray as your output.
Might be worth a try. :)

[jdobbs]

@burticus;
I doubt the 448 kbps AC3 had anything to do with it, but more likely the strict AVCHD. I never have selected strict AVCHD, and almost always use 640kbps AC3 audio. Mine are BX-1 and S360.
I am not sure, but full movie backups may not be affected by the strict AVCHD selection anyway. Just movie only.
If you are doing movie only, you could just copy the BD5/9 back to your hard drive from the disc, demux it with tsMuxeR, and remux with tsMuxer selecting Blu-ray as your output.
Might be worth a try. :) I'm sure the AC3 isn't important and the strict AVCHD is ignored for full backups. It only has an effect on movie-only. I doubt, though, that BD-9 full backups would work on that player at all.

Strict AVCHD movie-only backups should work on all players that accept AVCHD. All it really does is prevent the user from using non-compliant streams and it doesn't add the folders/headers that are unique to blu-ray.

[burticus]

To test that theory I ran a re-encode of a problem movie and unchecked "use 448kbs for AC3" for a BD9 movie and the audio is still stuttering and jacked. I have had very good luck with that option selected, I guess the S370 cannot handle the higher AC3 bitrate.

These are BD9/25 movie only encodes. I don't really care about doing the full backup, all I care about is the movie.

I got a new firmware pushed to me tonight, but it didn't make any difference on my test. I don't care. Now that I know what to do to produce workable backups I'm happy.

[jdobbs]

To test that theory I ran a re-encode of a problem movie and unchecked "use 448kbs for AC3" for a BD9 movie and the audio is still stuttering and jacked. I have had very good luck with that option selected, I guess the S370 cannot handle the higher AC3 bitrate.

These are BD9/25 movie only encodes. I don't really care about doing the full backup, all I care about is the movie.

I got a new firmware pushed to me tonight, but it didn't make any difference on my test. I don't care. Now that I know what to do to produce workable backups I'm happy. I guess there might be some kind of twisted logic there. DVD is limited to 448Kbs for DD. Since you're using the red laser, the player may put a limit on itself... but... the AVCHD standard allows DD to get up to 640Kbs. So if the S370 says it supports AVCHD but doesn't allow it, there has to be a firmware issue of some kind.

[Music Fan]

I have the Sony 370 and it plays a lot of formats on dvd, including True HD and Dts MA (thus I guess that DD in 640k should be ok). If the audio is stuttering, the problem comes probably from the video rate. On another forum, an owner of the 370 had the same problem and solved it encoding the video at a lower rate.

[burticus]

Since you're using the red laser, the player may put a limit on itself... but... the AVCHD standard allows DD to get up to 640Kbs. So if the S370 says it supports AVCHD but doesn't allow it, there has to be a firmware issue of some kind.

Oh I agree it's some kind of firmware issue, like I said all these played fine on the old player so not like it's out of spec or anything. But it's not like I'm going to call Sony up and complain that their player has issues playing back my BR backups.

You mention the red laser, but actually I test all my encodes first on a BD-RE before I commit them to disc. I don't think it matters.

Thanks all for your input.

[Music Fan]

No, it's not a firmware issue. Have you seen my message ?

[jdobbs]

I have the Sony 370 and it plays a lot of formats on dvd, including True HD and Dts MA (thus I guess that DD in 640k should be ok). If the audio is stuttering, the problem comes probably from the video rate. On another forum, an owner of the 370 had the same problem and solved it encoding the video at a lower rate. It's unlikely that reducing the audio by 192Kbs would fix a problem that is associated with video... that's a drop in the bucket for an HD video bitrate. But I guess anything is possible. Still, BD-RB encodes the video wll below the AVCHD specified maximum bitrate.

It could be that the drive in the S370 doesn't spin at 2x as is required...

[Music Fan]

I made a test myself this morning (non standard AVCHD made by MultiAVCHD burnt on dvd-rw) and there's no problem with DD in 640k, even with a high bitrate video (peaks at 40Mbps !) on the Sony BDP-S370. It also plays non standard formats for dvd, like Dolby True HD, Dts HR and Dts HD MA.
Thus it should work with projects made by BD-Rebuilder. So the firmware is not the cause of burticus's problem (if he has the same firmware than me).
My player's firmware is M03.R.623, which is not the last one.

[jdobbs]

I made a test myself this morning (non standard AVCHD made by MultiAVCHD burnt on dvd-rw) and there's no problem with DD in 640k, even with a high bitrate video (peaks at 40Mbps !) on the Sony BDP-S370. It also plays non standard formats for dvd, like Dolby True HD, Dts HR and Dts HD MA.
Thus it should work with projects made by BD-Rebuilder. So the firmware is not the cause of burticus's problem (if he has the same firmware than me).
My player's firmware is M03.R.623, which is not the last one.It could be a hardware problem unique to his player then...

[Music Fan]

Yes, or a problem between the player and the receiver, or an encoding problem only with this movie, ... there are many possibilities.

[Bullet1979]

So are there any players that are currently on the market that play full BD-9 discs dependably? I took a disc to Best Buy and put them in all the players they had and none of them seemed to play the disc. Granted, there was no television to fully verify and probably none of them had updated firmware, but many of them displayed an error or ejected the disc. Is the Sony BDP-S360 the best bet? I was just hoping to get a player that I'd be able to buy new with a warranty (and the newer features on recent models are always a plus).

[Music Fan]

I read that some players (like the Sony 370) can play full BD-9 discs when their authoring is in HDMV but not when it's in BD-J (Java). And some others (like the older Sony 360) can play HDMV but also BD-J on dvd (BD-5/9).

[jdobbs]

I read that some players (like the Sony 370) can play full BD-9 discs when their authoring is in HDMV but not when it's in BD-J (Java). And some others (like the older Sony 360) can play HDMV but also BD-J on dvd (BD-5/9). That's because AVCHD supports HDMV menus but not BD-J.

There are many players that support DVD-9 full backups... but with the price of BD-R's now around $1, you're much better off making bull backups to BD-R. That way you can be sure they will still work in the player you buy next time. It's probably best to reserve BD-5 and BD-9 for movie-only.

[Music Fan]

I also think that. I already said that here actually ;
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1431358#post1431358
Why do some people want to keep absolutely Java menus but accept to recompress the video to put it on dvd-9 ? The movie is more important than the menus (in my opinion). If we accept to lose video quality, we can accept to lose the menu.
BD-9 with Java menus is nearly not useful, except if the original disc contain less than 8500 Mo (the size of a dvd-9), because it allows to make an exact copy without recompression, but BD-25 with Java menus and containing less than 8500 Mo, it's has to be very rare.
That's because AVCHD supports HDMV menus but not BD-J.
Yes, but as already said, some players can play Java on dvd, thus they allow more than the norm. And if the 360 can do this, the 370 could also do this. So, it's not a question of norm, it's a choice surely linked to piracy.

[Bullet1979]

That's because AVCHD supports HDMV menus but not BD-J.

There are many players that support DVD-9 full backups... but with the price of BD-R's now around $1, you're much better off making bull backups to BD-R. That way you can be sure they will still work in the player you buy next time. It's probably best to reserve BD-5 and BD-9 for movie-only.

Whoa whoa whoa... where can you get BD-R's around $1? The best I can find is around $3 each!

[JJB]

Whoa whoa whoa... where can you get BD-R's around $1? The best I can find is around $3 each!

Used a bunch of these, no problems @.99 each:

http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/optical-quantum-bd-r-25gb-4x-logo-on-top-blu-ray-recordable-single-layer-media-oqvbdr04lt-10-10pk

Update: .90 each today.
http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/optical-quantum-bd-r-25gb-4x-white-inkjet-hub-printable-blu-ray-recordable-single-layer-media-oqvbdr04wip-h-10-10pk?utm_source=emailSonic&utm_content=Media&utm_medium=campaign&utm_term=DV%20008%203702&utm_campaign=101129%20CYBER%20MONDAY%20EXPLOSIVE%20DEALS!

[burticus]

Whoa whoa whoa... where can you get BD-R's around $1? The best I can find is around $3 each!

Fry's sells the 15 packs for $20 pretty regularly now (memorex or kodak) and Amazon has them for a little more.

FYI - the Sony S370 was on sale this weekend at Target AND Best Buy for $99. I like it.

[jdobbs]

Whoa whoa whoa... where can you get BD-R's around $1? The best I can find is around $3 each! I usually get mine from Meritline.com -- they always have a few brands at around $1.00 to $1.30...

[belgab]

Hi,

Before reading this thread I was up to buying a Panasonic BDT300 (415€) (or its little brother BDT100 (215€)) but I've seen that they are not very compatible with BD-5/BD-9.

So I've started looking around and I've seen a good player from Yamaha (the S1067 @520€) or the more cheap Sony s570 (230€) and s770 (280€).

Reading that Sony is one among the best in term of compatibility with BD-5/BD-9 I'm more oriented on buying the sony S770 (The Yamaha is way too expensive, and lacks built-in WiFi)

Does anyone know how the Sony S770 and S570 compete in terms of BD-5/BD-9 compatibility?

Regards,
Gabriele

[Music Fan]

I read several times that the new Sony players (370, 470, ...) couldn't play BD-5/9 with Java menus (BD-J). It should be OK with HDMV menus and AVCHD.
The Sony 360 used to play BD-J on BD-5/9.

[jdobbs]

I read several times that the new Sony players (370, 470, ...) couldn't play BD-5/9 with Java menus (BD-J). It should be OK with HDMV menus and AVCHD.
The Sony 360 used to play BD-J on BD-5/9. The Sony BDP-S301 and BDP-S360 (both of which I own) will play all formats (BD-5/9 & BD-25 with or without BD-J).

I've also heard good things about the Samsung BD-C5900 -- as it has been reported to play all formats, and it is 3D ready. Even if you're not ready for a 3D player yet, they're generally faster and this one is relatively inexpensive.

[belgab]

Thanks for the information.

As long as I understand the major "issue" is the Java Menu, while any player compatible with AVCHD can at least run "Movie-Only" AVCHD discs, right? (so, even the "infamous" Panasonic players can at least run such kind of backups).

I can find a Samsung C5900 for about 120€, which would be a great buy compared to the others 3D players.

[Ghitulescu]

As long as I understand the major "issue" is the Java Menu, while any player compatible with AVCHD can at least run "Movie-Only" AVCHD discs, right? (so, even the "infamous" Panasonic players can at least run such kind of backups).

You have to test it yourself.

There are several threads here about certain compatibilities of certain brands and models, but the BD world is a changing world, and each firmware and/or model may change the things.

There are models that do not accept certain codecs on particular media (like VC-1 on DVDR). There are models whose FW update withdrew the ability to play certain MKVs. There are players those FW update allowed them to play HD content on DVDR media but withdrew them the ability to play certain MKVs.

So, test your future player yourself, carefully and if you like it, keep it like this (resist hard to any FW upgrade and keep yourself some copies of older FW, just in case).

[mr3p]

I have a Sony BDP-S570 and it will not play BD-9 full back-ups although will do movie only.

[Music Fan]

Are you sure you're not talking about BD-J back-ups ?

[mr3p]

Are you sure you're not talking about BD-J back-ups ?

The discs I've tried to back-up to BD9 have probably had java. Somewhere I vaguely recall reading there was a way to modify the jar folder contents to allow the discs to play, is something like this true?

[jdobbs]

The discs I've tried to back-up to BD9 have probably had java. Somewhere I vaguely recall reading there was a way to modify the jar folder contents to allow the discs to play, is something like this true?Not that I know of -- if your player doesn't support BD-J on BD-5/9 and a disc uses it, the only choice I know is to do movie-only.

[mr3p]

Not that I know of -- if your player doesn't support BD-J on BD-5/9 and a disc uses it, the only choice I know is to do movie-only.

Thanks. Thats essentially why I made the comment above that the 570 doesn't do BD9 ;)

[thghgv]

Anyone here know how this player fares with BD-5/9 and BD-J ??

[laserfan]

Does anyone here know if our BD5/9 discs with high-def content will play-back in an Apple Mac? My wife has the hots for one of the new iMacs but I understand they have only DVD ("Superdrives" indeed :p). Will these play on a Mac out-of-box? Or maybe a special player software is need for the Mac?

[jdobbs]

Anyone here know how this player fares with BD-5/9 and BD-J ?? This is a pretty late response, but I think that's the same player as a BD-5900, except it supports wireless (someone correct me if I'm wrong) -- and the BD-5900 has been reported to work with BD-J (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1541710#post1541710).

[laserfan]

Does anyone here know if our BD5/9 discs with high-def content will play-back in an Apple Mac?
Ok I guess I asked in the wrong place, tho creators of BD5/BD9 discs must know SOMEONE with a Mac? Maybe not...

Anyway I think I found my answer in that it appears no Mac has ever had Blu-ray support--Apple has never wanted to go along with Sony's licensing requirements. But apparently even the non-protected discs we make have not heretofore had player support, though lately two products have come-onto the market that probably will work, from Macgo and Aurora.

Very strange that for as innovative as Apple has been, they've never even ack-ed BD much less supported it! :bizarre: