Shooting for a Movie Only AVCHD disc

[GaPony]

This thread is in reponse to d62ks821's post in the Bug Related thread... I'm just trying to get the specific BD-P2500 discussion out of that thread.

I'm sorry that I don't remember who posted this link earlier, but it has made it possible to make an acceptable Movie Only AVCHD formatted disc that will play in my PS3 and my Samsung BD-P2500 (Firmware rev. 2.4) as a AVCHD disc.

http://bd.splra.org/

I think where you may have gone wrong is in just copying all the folders and files under the AVCHD folder. I think its important to use the index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv from the template file offered in avchd_leer.zip.

In my successful attempt, I started with a copy of the supplied template and copied only the CLIPINFO, PLAYLIST and STREAMS folders from my BD-Rebuilder resluts to the template and then burned the disc with ImgBurn using UDF 2.5 to a DL disc.

I think from reading your post, you may have doe it slightly differently...?

[d62ks821]

...I think where you may have gone wrong is in just copying all the folders and files under the AVCHD folder. I think its important to use the index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv from the template file offered in avchd_leer.zip...

On initial attempt I used all files from avchd_leer.zip and only over copied the 3 dir's (CLIPINF, STREAM, and PLAYLIST) as indicated. ...then after failing to work, I then tried overwritting index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv as well. Still no joy.

What disks, format and brand, do you use? ..maybe significant.

Do you have a small test.iso you can post that works on your player I can try? ...or I can post mine for you to try.

[alluringreality]

I think the main files from the Nero AVCHD structure expect for there to be a 00000.clpi in CLIPINF, a 00000.mpls in PLAYLIST, and 00000.m2ts in STREAMS. The backup files were in the backup directory, and those were the names used for the playlist and clipinf. Generally streams starts with 00000, so that's what I'd figure it's expecting. In http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1239039#post1239039 your files aren't named that way.

EDIT: I don't expect the original Nero output would have included the AVCHD folder, BDMV would have probably been the main folder on the disk, but I can't tell if GaPony got rid of the AVCHD folder for his working disk.

[d62ks821]

I think the main files from the Nero AVCHD structure expect for there to be a 00000.clpi in CLIPINF, a 00000.mpls in PLAYLIST, and 00000.m2ts in STREAMS. The backup files were in the backup directory, and those were the names used for the playlist and clipinf. Generally streams starts with 00000, so that's what I'd figure it's expecting. In http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1239039#post1239039 your files aren't named that way.

BD-RB output as 00001 rather than 00000. Looks like tsMuxerR named it that way, and BD-RB just followed suit. ..can I just rename them, or will that break links?

Also you refer to STREAMS, but every disk I've look at it is STREAM, not STREAMS. tsMuxeR and BD-RB also named it STREAM.

[alluringreality]

STREAM is correct, that was just a typing error.

People used to do this sort of thing a lot before tsRemux took the Nero output. It's been a while and I forgot that the playlist actually has the clipinf/stream numbering. So the original playlist went to 00000, but the one you're using probably does go to 00001. You can look at the relationships if you open the files in BDedit. The Play PL under MovieObject takes you to the playlist and then the m2ts file name is shown there. The clipinf name should match the stream name. Come to think of it I was probably wrong on the naming comment.

Did you burn the AVCHD folder? I would have deleted the AVCHD folder and burned BDMV to root. Personally I always replace the backup files when I make changes also, but that's probably not the issue.

If you just want an AVCHD to test that your player works we had a report that "the AVCHD disc works great with the Samsung 2500 - at least with firmware version 2.4". That comment was about our v1.0 release from http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

[dav88]

Copy the CLIPINF, STREAM, and PLAYLIST folders and overwrite the same ones in the AVCHD_LEER.zip folder and then burn the (LEER) BDMV folder to DVD with UDF2.5 that should work should it?

This worked for my bluray player but didn't play with PowerDVD until I copied the 'CERTIFICATE' folder to the AVCHD folder.

It looks like this:

AVCHD

-BDMV
-BACKUP
-CLIPINF
-PLAYLIST
-STREAM
-index.bdmv
-MovieObject.bdmv

-CERTIFICATE
-BACKUP

[GaPony]

I think the main files from the Nero AVCHD structure expect for there to be a 00000.clpi in CLIPINF, a 00000.mpls in PLAYLIST, and 00000.m2ts in STREAMS. The backup files were in the backup directory, and those were the names used for the playlist and clipinf. Generally streams starts with 00000, so that's what I'd figure it's expecting. In http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1239039#post1239039 your files aren't named that way.

EDIT: I don't expect the original Nero output would have included the AVCHD folder, BDMV would have probably been the main folder on the disk, but I can't tell if GaPony got rid of the AVCHD folder for his working disk.


I specifically did this to include the AVCHD folder in the root of the disc. Otherwise, with the BDMV in the root, the movie would play on my PS3, but not on my BD-P2500. This has worked on two movies that didn't previously play.

[dav88]

This thread should actually be in the DVD & Blu-ray authoring forum.

[GaPony]

Actually... I may have spoken too soon. I thought I had copied the AVCHD folder to disc, but apparently not. In viewing the disc, it appears that ImgBurn stripped the AVCHD folder, so it must be the just the replacement of the index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv that made the difference.

I thought I had it figured out...now I'm not so sure, but it does cause the movie to play in the BD-P2500. I don't know how to edit a .bdmv file.

[GaPony]

This thread should actually be in the DVD & Blu-ray authoring forum.

It relates directly to the output of BD-Rebuilder... otherwise I'd agree entirely.

I get your point, however, in the beginning of any project it seems helpful to find out what works, what doesn't, and where it does or doesn't apply. After running any program for 4-6-8 or 20 hours, its good to get some kind of feedback for your efforts. Though this AVCHD thing is a side issue mainly brought about by the PS3. It came about due to users making movie only conversions, and has application elsewhere. It appears thar BD5/BD9 on DVD is supported by a very small number of players. If the intended output of BD5/BD9 is unplayable on a number of players, yet that same output is seen as AVCHD by some players and with minor tweaks playable as AVCHD on still more players, that would seem significant to me, if I were the author. Whether or not he takes any action upon what is discovered, is another matter. In any case, more knowledge is better than less... and its just a single thread which he can remove if he deems it immaterial.

[d62ks821]

Actually... I may have spoken too soon. I thought I had copied the AVCHD folder to disc, but apparently not. In viewing the disc, it appears that ImgBurn stripped the AVCHD folder, so it must be the just the replacement of the index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv that made the difference.

BINGO! Same experience here. My BD-RB disk is playing in my BD-P2500 player now. I will now fool with it to determine exactly which files make a difference.

[GaPony]

BINGO! Same experience here. My BD-RB disk is playing in my BD-P2500 player now. I will now fool with it to determine exactly which files make a difference.

I thought you were using DVD media... I'm using Verbatim +R DL discs.. which is where I thought people were having problems. :)

[MikeyBK]

BINGO! Same experience here. My BD-RB disk is playing in my BD-P2500 player now. I will now fool with it to determine exactly which files make a difference.

I thought you were using DVD media... I'm using Verbatim +R DL discs.. which is where I thought people were having problems. :)

LOL Ga, I think you misread his BD-RB disc as a BD-R...:p

[d62ks821]

I thought you were using DVD media... I'm using Verbatim +R DL discs.. which is where I thought people were having problems. :)

Sorry for the confusion. Yes I am using DVD+R disks writing BD-RD (aka, BD REBUILDER) data.

BREAK THROUGH!!!
I have successfully played DVDs on my SAMSUNG BD-P2500 (f/w vers 2.4) player. Output from BD-RB, tsMuxeR, or ripbot, all work. I just had to delete the empty \BDMV\AUXDATA folder and it works! :) It does take about 80 seconds from the time disk is inserted until it plays, but it plays!!!

In addition I found I could delete all the empty FOLDERS hilighted below and it still played. (This also made it playable with powerDVD 7.3)


\BDMV
\BDMV\index.bdmv
\BDMV\MovieObject.bdmv

\BDMV\AUXDATA

\BDMV\BACKUP
\BDMV\BACKUP\index.bdmv
\BDMV\BACKUP\MovieObject.bdmv
\BDMV\BACKUP\BDJO
\BDMV\BACKUP\CLIPINF
\BDMV\BACKUP\CLIPINF\00001.clpi
\BDMV\BACKUP\PLAYLIST
\BDMV\BACKUP\PLAYLIST\00000.mpls

\BDMV\BDJO

\BDMV\CLIPINF
\BDMV\CLIPINF\00001.clpi

\BDMV\JAR

\BDMV\META

\BDMV\PLAYLIST
\BDMV\PLAYLIST\00000.mpls

\BDMV\STREAM
\BDMV\STREAM\00001.m2ts

\CERTIFICATE
\CERTIFICATE\BACKUP

[alluringreality]

If you author AVCHD with commercial programs you will only get the folders you listed, just like the Nero avchd_leer.zip example:
/BDMV
/BDMV/BACKUP
/BDMV/BACKUP/CLIPINF
/BDMV/BACKUP/PLAYLIST
/BDMV/CLIPINF
/BDMV/PLAYLIST
/BDMV/STREAM

Depending on how things are authored, one item I've ran into is that the current ImgBurn version will add /CERTIFICATE. I couldn't quickly figure out how to stop the new behavior, so I dropped back to the 2.4.1.0 version.

[d62ks821]

If you author AVCHD with commercial programs you will only get the folders you listed, just like the Nero avchd_leer.zip example...

Yes. that example got me going and curious, but initial problem was my player didnt like having BDMV as a subdir of /AVCHD as indicated in the example.

Thank you everyone for your help this evening :)

[GaPony]

Using the avchd_leer template worked great for me. It takes about 2 munutes to copy the files and no other authoring tools are required. Having the certificate folder from ImgBurn doesn't cause any problems. There are no abnormal pauses in playback on the BD-P2500 either.

I'm curious to see what changes jdobbs made with the next version, since he did a rework of the Movie Only mode... but in the meantime, I have an easy workable solution.

[GaPony]

Yes. that example got me going and curious, but initial problem was my player didnt like having BDMV as a subdir of /AVCHD as indicated in the example.

One other thing of interest. Although removing AUXDATA directory made the disk work in my BD-P2500 player, It breaks powerDVD 7.3 playback, "a disk with an unsupported format in drive D:". I added AUXDATA folder back as a test and powerDVD worked again. ..but this is only a nit.

Thank you everyone for your help this evening :)

So you're looking at an either/or situation? It will either play in your BD-P2500 without the AUXDATA folder or only play with PowerDVD if it is present?

I got sick of messing with PowerDVD's quirks and switched to Total Media Theatre (TMT) and have never looked back. It works well and even allows me to make screenshots..which PowerDVD abandoned several updates ago.

[dav88]

My blu-ray format on dvd+r works also on the bd-p1500. All I did was remove the AUXDATA folder from the BDMV folder.

[yonexsp]

Summary: Delete AUX folder before you burn the DVD+r DL and the output from BDR should work on players that had problems before..

BUT

Will not work with PowerDVD

Is this correct?

[GaPony]

My blu-ray format on dvd+r works also on the bd-p1500. All I did was remove the AUXDATA folder from the BDMV folder.

This method worked for my BD-P2500 also... and still plays in my PS3.

It also works with TMT (Total Media Theatre) from the disc or the HDD.

I'm happy now.

Thanks dav88!

[d62ks821]

So you're looking at an either/or situation? It will either play in your BD-P2500 without the AUXDATA folder or only play with PowerDVD if it is present?

My blu-ray format on dvd+r works also on the bd-p1500. All I did was remove the AUXDATA folder from the BDMV folder.

Summary: Delete AUX folder before you burn the DVD+r DL and the output from BDR should work on players that had problems before..

BUT

Will not work with PowerDVD

Is this correct?


If you delete all empty dirs I have hilighted in prior append, powerDVD and P2500/P1500 players will work. See: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1239167&postcount=14

[jdobbs]

Just for clarity... you don't have to have that AVCHD folder in the root? So the most successful structure is simply taking the output from TSMUXER and deleting those empty directories?

Do you replace the index.bdmv file or leave the one created by TSMUXER?

[chaseruk]

just tried this method and can confirm movie only to bd-9 now plays in my panasonic bd35

[d62ks821]

Just for clarity... you don't have to have that AVCHD folder in the root?

Correct. No AVCHD folder.

So the most successful structure is simply taking the output from TSMUXER and deleting those empty directories?

Correct. Simply delete empty dirs.

Do you replace the index.bdmv file or leave the one created by TSMUXER?

Leave them as is. Don't replace.

Here is the final structure, just as output from BD Rebuilder, minus the empty directories.

\BDMV
\BDMV\index.bdmv
\BDMV\MovieObject.bdmv

\BDMV\BACKUP
\BDMV\BACKUP\index.bdmv
\BDMV\BACKUP\MovieObject.bdmv

\BDMV\BACKUP\CLIPINF
\BDMV\BACKUP\CLIPINF\00001.clpi

\BDMV\BACKUP\PLAYLIST
\BDMV\BACKUP\PLAYLIST\00000.mpls

\BDMV\CLIPINF
\BDMV\CLIPINF\00001.clpi

\BDMV\PLAYLIST
\BDMV\PLAYLIST\00000.mpls

\BDMV\STREAM
\BDMV\STREAM\00001.m2ts

The result is playable by both BD-P2500 and PowerDVD.

[GaPony]

Just for clarity... you don't have to have that AVCHD folder in the root? So the most successful structure is simply taking the output from TSMUXER and deleting those empty directories?

Do you replace the index.bdmv file or leave the one created by TSMUXER?

I thought the AVCHD folder was being processed to the root, but I was mistaken... ImgBurn skipped the AVCHD folder and put the BDMV and CERTIFICATE folders in the root anyway.

As it turns out, the only thing that has to change from the BD-Rebuilder output for a "Movie Only" setting is to delete the AUXDATA folder before burning to disc. At least thats all that's needed for the disc to meet the AVCHD specs required for the Samsung BD-P2500 player.

The avchd_leer.zip template is just taking the long way around. The fix is much simpler than that.

On the other side of the coin... PowerDVD appears to have a problem with the disc missing the AUXDATA folder, but Total Media Theatre (TMT) doesn't care if its there or not... again this is for "Movie Only" output from BD-Rebuilder.

I hope this helps...

Here's the tree for "The Terminator" done with the "Movie Only Setting" and the AUXDATA folder removed.

Folder PATH listing for volume THE_TERMINATOR
Volume serial number is C5FC-C996
E:\
+---BDMV
| | index.bdmv
| | MovieObject.bdmv
| |
| +---BACKUP
| | | index.bdmv
| | | MovieObject.bdmv
| | |
| | +---CLIPINF
| | | 00000.clpi
| | |
| | \---PLAYLIST
| | 00000.mpls
| |
| +---CLIPINF
| | 00001.clpi
| |
| +---PLAYLIST
| | 00000.mpls
| |
| \---STREAM
| 00001.m2ts
|
\---CERTIFICATE
\---BACKUP

[dav88]

Same for me with bd-p1500 I just deleted the AUXDATA folder from the output of BD Rebuilder or TSMuxer. I have only tried it for movie only.

[dav88]

I just burned a full backup (complete movie with menus and extras) with BD-Rebuilder, a BD-9(DVD-9). Actually I burned two of the same movie, one with the AUXDATA folder and one without. The Samsung BD-P1500 would play the BD-9 without the AUXDATA folder but not the other BD-9 with AUXDATA folder. The menus, extras, and movie play perfect.

[jdobbs]

Did it have any BD-J content? One way to tell is if there is anything in the BDJO directory.

[yonexsp]

Same for me with bd-p1500 I just deleted the AUXDATA folder from the output of BD Rebuilder or TSMuxer. I have only tried it for movie only.

I did a movie only and it still would not work with a BDP-U5000, but I did not edit any directories etc

[dav88]

Did it have any BD-J content? One way to tell is if there is anything in the BDJO directory.


Yes there is but when I skipped to a few chapters it started hesitating, maybe media TDK dual-layer. I'll try again tommorrow when I get some Verbatim.

UPDATE: I just burned another TDK dvd+r dl with a different burner and at a slower speed(4x instead of 8x) and it plays without hesitation. I skipped through the chapters and it played without any problems.

[d62ks821]

Did it have any BD-J content? One way to tell is if there is anything in the BDJO directory.

I just successfully did 3 full movie backups. All of them played on my BD-P2500, but only if I deleted the empty \BDMV\AUXDATA folder. No problems playing menus, main, or other content. Yes, all 3 had content in BDJO folder.

FYI, ...on an unrelated note, I have seen that AVCHD has problems playing in the BD-P2500 iff I have 24p=ON selected in the SETUP menus. (I was able to work around this by toggling 24p=OFF, then back to ON, just prior to playing 24p content. I have submitted problem description to SAMSUNG.)

[dav88]

@d62ks821

I was hoping someone else was checking full backups. I've got a slow pc which takes me a while to do full backups. Did you use bd-5, bd-9, or bd-25?

[d62ks821]

@d62ks821

I was hoping someone else was checking full backups. I've got a slow pc which takes me a while to do full backups. Did you use bd-5, bd-9, or bd-25?

Have only tried these, all worked:
BD-9 DVD+R DL
BD-5 DVD+RW
BD-5 DVD-RW

NOTE: The Samsung BD-P2500 manual and box label both have warnings that state that DVD+R[W] is not supported, and that DVD-R[W] is supported. I wonder what's behind that notice??? ...both seem to work fine for me.

[Steff 320i]

So, Dav88, you're not doing the trick with the AVCHD-leer template anymore?
And your player is a Samsung P1500? With latest firmware?

I gotta do some more testing tonight.

[dav88]

So, Dav88, you're not doing the trick with the AVCHD-leer template anymore?
And your player is a Samsung P1500? With latest firmware?

I gotta do some more testing tonight.


Correct. I'm just removing the AUXDATA folder from the output.
Yes I have the BD-P1500 with latest firmware(v2.3)

[turbojet]

Deleting the AUXDATA folder fixed an artifact issue with powerdvd 8 on long gop's too. Amazing what deleting an empty directory can do.
I'll be testing this on Panasonic BD30, Sony PS3 and the Magnavox within the next few days, unless someone beats me to it.

[GaPony]

This issue has been taken care of with the latest beta. If you check the "Stricter compliance with AVCHD" box in Setup, it won't create the AUXDATA folder. This fix works with the latest firmware for the BD-P2500, I don't think you should have to be using an old firmware for the BD-P1500 either.

[Steff 320i]

Thanks for your reply, Dave88. I just did some more testing with my Samsung P1500 (latest firmware, January 2009) and BD-Rebuilder (beta 0.18.4).

I made a full backup of "Ultraviolet" PAL. High quality, target size was BD% (DVD-R). After encoding, I deleted the Auxdata folder before burning with ImgBurn.
I threw the disc in my Samsung and it works! Everything's in there: movie, menus, extras, etc... I love it.

Now: if I don't delete the Auxdata folder, the player will reject the disc. Just tested it again.

But this Auxdata-deleting-trick does not always work. I have a backup of "Lost" PAL, with 3 episodes and extras. I did a full encode of it, deleted the Auxdata, but it would not play at all. The P1500 gave me the "media cannot be played" message. I hope it's a BD-Rebuilder issue, cuz I know the creator Jdobbs is a genius and he will get it sorted eventually.

[d62ks821]

OK, deleting AUXDATA folder is all well and good for a disk the has an empty AUXDATA folder, ...but what if it has something in it? Well, I tried just that. I did a backup and sure enough it would not play until I deleted the AUXDATA (including its contents). Menus, main and features all work ...as far as I can tell. Interesting....

[GaPony]

I copied Hancock earlier (Full movie) and had to delete the AUXDATA folder which wasn't empty... it was a little slow to load, but everything works.

I'm not really literate on the exact workings of a Blu-Ray disc, but I know what works and what doesn't with these copies.

The full copy still doesn't play on my PS3, but it does play on my BD-P2500...

[jdobbs]

This issue has been taken care of with the latest beta. If you check the "Stricter compliance with AVCHD" box in Setup, it won't create the AUXDATA folder. This fix works with the latest firmware for the BD-P2500, I don't think you should have to be using an old firmware for the BD-P1500 either.
It is removed in movie-only backups only. AUXDATA should be a requirement for a full backup... but apparently SAMSUNG doesn't agree...

[GaPony]

I'm finding Samsung has other ideas about alot of things, where Blu-Ray players are concerned. I think I see a Sony in my future. Trying to find the most compatible make and model appears to be the challenge. I have no brand loyalty on this issue, so what works best is what I'm looking for.

[jwgallardo]

In the bg report thread, I post about Denon player behaviour. Denon use to follow stardard rules so here are my findings for model 3800 for AVCHD (Movie Only) DVD-5 and DVD-9:

v0.17.3 (the first version)
Movie Only played perfect on Denon 3800
If I remove AUXDATA folder, then disc is not longer recognized as BD and player indicate a disc error.

v0.18.3 and 0.18.4
Movie Only is not working.
Strictly AVCHD Option: Player don't recognized the disc as BD and refuses to play indicating a disc error.

Without Strictly AVCHD option: Player recognize the Disc as BD but got confused and finally stuck without playing audio or video.

Bottom line, for AVCHD (movie only), all directories structure as full movie need to be on the disc to be recognized as BD. It was working on original BD-RB version but now it is not longer working. I don't about new version 0.18.7 as I'm waiting to hear from Jdobbs if it can be different than 18.4 to test it.

Full Movie working on all versions either DVD-5 and DVD-9.

[GaPony]

Does it strike anyone else, as odd, that there seems to be so many variations on acceptable standards for playability?