PgcEdit - PUO question

[tom942]

I have a doubt with PUO's.

I've seen that on the plugin, when you select "Selectively clear VOB PUO" there is an advice about not to clear "GoUp" and "Angle change", so is it a good rule to do the same with the IFO's?.

I have read what blutach do with menus (192) and also what r0lz do (leave all the PUO's checked in the menus).

Would be a good rule to set:

1. In menu domain (included VMGM and First Play PGC)

GoUp
TopPg or PrevPG
NextPG
Angle change

2. In title domain

GoUp
Angle change (although in the VOB's are not present)

I'm asking this because I want to avoid strange behaviours like typical angles jumps between same scenes with different languages.

Could this settings be taken as a minimum of PUO's to be set or do you have any other suggestions?

Other question, have the PUO's in the IFO's priority over the ones in the VOB's?.

[r0lZ]

The GoUp PUO is special, because due to an absurd limitation in the DVD-Video standard, it cannot be used in the IFOs, and therefore should be set only in the VOBs. The player should ignore it when it is set in the IFOs only, but I'm almost sure most players take it into account anyway. Take care: if you clear it in the VOBs, you have no easy way to put it back. It's why it is dangerous to clear it, but if you are sure it is useless, there is no reason to keep it.

The Angle Change PUO is sometimes useful, as some players display an icon on screen when they play a multi-angle cell, to inform the user that he can use the remote to select another angle. That icon is not shown if the PUO is set, and therefore, if you don't want to see that icon when playing the movie, you should leave it. Note that the Angle Change PUO is useless in the menu domains, since a menu cannot be multi-angle.

I do NOT leave all PUOs in place, but I don't like to let the ripper remove them, because I prefer to verify if some of them are really useful, and selectively clear the other PUOs.

As a general rule, you should not set PUOs that are not enabled in the original DVD, unless you know what you are doing. And it is usually safe to remove most of them, except in some cases, such as in games as it might be too easy to cheat if the PUOs are removed!

There is no IFO/VOB precedence. If a PUO is set in the VOB or in the IFO's PGC or in the Title Play Map Table, it will be taken into account. So, if you want to clear a PUO, it must be clear in all locations. Note however that it is theoretically possible to have PUOs on some cells or even on some parts of some cells in the VOBs. In the IFOs, they are global to a whole PGC or Title. It is, for example, possible to set the Angle Change PUO in the VOBs on the multi-angle cells only, and clear it on the normal cells. That should be sufficient to remove the icon, but leave the possibility for the user to change the angle when a normal cell is played. (However, PgcEdit cannot do that currently. It's on my TO DO list...)

BTW, don't forget to upgrade to PgcEdit v9.1. This thread is devoted to PgcEdit v8.X, and should normally not be used any more.

[tom942]

Ok. I asked in this thread because although I already donated, I still use 8.6 until I get use to the new functions of the new version, and then I din´t know where to ask :).

I mean that you leave all PUO's in place that comes in the original menues, sorry about that :).

I though that setting "Angle change" in the IFO's have precedence over VOB's PUO's, something similar to 16:9 MPEG2 stream, but the IFO is the one that has the last word.

Setting "Angle change" in the IFO's, I thought that could avoid jumps between cells in DVD's like "Wall-E" or "Ice Age" (I mean see a cell in english, later in spanish, english, spanish, and so on...).

The question comes because when you read DVDRemake related guides always recommend "Enable all operations" and I would like to know which ones are the minimum or recommended for a proper playback (apart the ones that are in the original).

Well, if I got more questions I continue in the other thread, ok?

[r0lZ]

I don't know what you call "jumps between cells". In a multi-angle cell, only one cell should be played at a time, and no "jumps" should occur. However, if you reauthor the title with a tool that does not rebuild the IFOs correctly, or if you play the VOB as a MPEG file with a player, you will see all interleaved angles, with constant jumps between the cells. Anyway, the Angle Change PUO is not related to the way the cells are played, and setting it will not solve the problem. It is used only to prohibit the change between the angle cells with the remote, in a correctly authored DVD.

You can continue this discussion in this thread if you wish, although it is not related directly to PgcEdit.

[tom942]

Yes, I refer to multi-angle cells, like for example, Disney's DVD's or Wall-E DVD.

As you say, for instance in PGCEdit's preview I can see "jumping" between one VOB ID to other.
I thought that "Angle change" PUO in the IFO's avoid this "jumps" and maintain the angle that is choosen when you select for instance the audio.
If you choose english audio, the video is played in english, if you choose other, then the video is played in the other one.

So then does everything depend of the pre, post or cell commands to select one angle or other?.

In the past, when I used to use DVDRemake, when I export the DVD, the angles didn´t work properly, even the playback got freeze after the angle playback. Then, as in the guides were always recommended to remove PUO, I thought that it was the reason.

And reading this thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1218119#post1218119

I assumed that angles thing was PUO related.

[r0lZ]

The SetSTN command is used to select the angle to show. If the PUO is set, you cannot change it manually. The SetSTN command can be set almost everywhere in the DVD (except in VIDEO_TS.IFO or VOB) and affects all multi-angle titles. It doesn't need to be set in the pre-commands of the title.

The PgcEdit preview shows the multi-angle cells interleaved because it is only a raw preview, and not a real player. And in PgcEdit v9+, only one angle is shown, as it should (but you still have the possibility to see all angles, like in the old versions, if you wish.)

Removing the PUOs doesn't help to play the multi-angle cells. But reauthoring the multi-angle cells is something really difficult to do, and most programs like DRM or VobBlanker cannot do that. It's probably why you've experienced problems.

I haven't read the whole thread again, but in post #37, jmartinr says that the angle information in the IFOs is missing. That's the cause of the problem, not the PUOs.

[blutach]

I have a doubt with PUO's.

I've seen that on the plugin, when you select "Selectively clear VOB PUO" there is an advice about not to clear "GoUp" and "Angle change", so is it a good rule to do the same with the IFO's?.

I have read what blutach do with menus (192) and also what r0lz do (leave all the PUO's checked in the menus).

Would be a good rule to set:

1. In menu domain (included VMGM and First Play PGC)

GoUp
TopPg or PrevPG
NextPG
Angle change

2. In title domain

GoUp
Angle change (although in the VOB's are not present)

I'm asking this because I want to avoid strange behaviours like typical angles jumps between same scenes with different languages.

Could this settings be taken as a minimum of PUO's to be set or do you have any other suggestions?

Other question, have the PUO's in the IFO's priority over the ones in the VOB's?.

Here's what I now do:

I leave the following ticked in all menus and titles domains:


Title play (I prefer to use menus to go between titles and not the remote since registers usually need to be reset)
Angle change (except for title domains which actually contain angles)
Karaoke audio mix change
Video presentation mode change (this refers to LB to PS - it's a personal preference as when watching on 4:3, I always watch Letterbox because I think Pan and Scan is absurd and horrible)
In addition, in the menus domain, I prohibit:


Top PG search (since I don't want to be able to use anything but a button to go somewhere)
Next PG search (ditto)
Subpicture stream change (I prefer to use the menu for this in the menu domain)
As well, in both domains, I prohibit menus that are not there. For example, if there is no such thing as an angle menu in a particular VTS, I will prohibit Menu Call - Angle in all menu and title PGCs of that VTS.

Finally, since 99% my DVDs will end up with just one audio stream, I usually prohibit Audio stream change everywhere (if there is more than one audio stream, I will relax this in the titles domain which has the additional streams).

Depending on your personal preferences and the way the DVD has been authored, you may also wish to prohibit Menu Call - Title. Sometimes, this essentially "restarts" the DVD, breaking your resume point and stream selections. Now, maybe this is what you want, so don't set it. Or, if it isn't, you can set it, or better still, remove the Title menu as a "named menu" (check to see if there are commands to the Title Menu and not just VMGM ##). However, this makes no sense at all if VMGM actually contains the "real menu" and the Title menu is a real, functioning menu - in this case, you would want to use the Title menu button to return to the main menu.

Regards

[r0lZ]

Honestly, I wonder if it is useful to set a PUO that cannot be used anyway, for example the Audio Stream Change PUO when there is only one audio stream, or the GoUp PUO if the GoUp link is zero. The player should refuse to do any operation anyway. (However, on one of my players, the message is different when the PUO is set.) Many commercial DVDs have a lot of "useless" PUOs sets, and I've always wondered why.

(Thanks for having split this thread, blu!)

[tom942]

@r0lZ

Thank you for briefly clarify me how the angles are selected :).

I think it is time to read the books that everybody recommends (you among them) and I've just received :)

Many commercial DVDs have a lot of "useless" PUOs sets, and I've always wondered why.

Because they also don´t know how to use them in the proper way? :D

@blutach

Thank you for create the thread :).

And thanks for the explanation for the PUO's that you use. I'll see how behaves in my player and if it is ok, I'll use it as guideline :).

[Alex_ander]

In the past, when I used to use DVDRemake, when I export the DVD, the angles didn´t work properly, even the playback got freeze after the angle playback.
I did it yesterday with properly switching angles, using current version (2-angled VTS had been added from other project).

[tom942]

@Alex_ander

I'm talking about 2 or 3 years ago. Maybe then, the current version didn´t work fine, was a bad rip, my fault of knowledge or everything together :).

Since then, I don´t have "Remaked" a DVD with angles, maybe because I use PGCEdit more :).

[Alex_ander]

BTW, I even created individual BOVs in those 2 angles for switching between them (with enter key) and it works.

[r0lZ]

That's a nice idea! What tool did you use?

[linx05]

BTW, I even created individual BOVs in those 2 angles for switching between them (with enter key) and it works.Yes, please do tell! Hopefully it is not too difficult!

[Alex_ander]

That's a nice idea! What tool did you use?
@ r0lZ & linx05
That's not my idea, recently explored 'Tommy Live [1989]' DVD (the opportunity is also discussed in DVDLab help file). They organized switching on/off the visual commentary this way. The commentary angle placed the commentator before the picture of musical show (along with switching to audio commentary). They also used subpicture (very simple: a thick circle in the centre) to visualize the event of switching (very useful due to existing delays). So a big, transparent (in normal view) button in the centre becomes visible for a moment when activated. I didn't make sub-pictures and used DVDRemake 3.6.3 for just making 2 invisible buttons upon a musical clip. Default angle 1 showed musicians playing over an image of their LP cover and switching turned it to full-screen and back. I highlighted Program chains in DVD tree and used angle selection buttons on the left side of preview. This allowed for putting different buttons (as usual by Add Button) to different angles. The commands used were 'angle=1(2), LinkNoLink'

[r0lZ]

Thanks!
Nice idea anyway.

[Alex_ander]

However, after exploring some commercial multi-angle DVDs, I have to admit that there are actually problems in DVDRemake with recognition of interleaved cells in PGC structure (there had been no problem in the case I described earlier). Very often some cells in a program may be shown sequential rather than interleaved (same on export). So everyone please be warned!