Reference player?

[AntiJw]

Hey,
I wonder, which media-player should I use as a reference player when I'm planning on reencoding a video? I guess PowerDVD is good for that, but I'm not sure.

The colors changes for different decoders and renderers, and I'd like to know what colors to aim for in the reencode.

Thanks

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I'd use something as reference that isn't bound to a specific platform or a specific vendor. This comes down to:
MPlayer (http://mulder.dummwiedeutsch.de/home/?page=projects#mplayer) and VLC Player (http://www.videolan.org/)

And if you are targeting mainly for the Windows platform, you should test at least:
Media Player Classic (http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/) + latest ffdshow (http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/)

[leeperry]

which media-player should I use as a reference player when I'm planning on reencoding a video?
as long as you decode HD in Rec.709, the colors should be identical.
whatever ffdshow or the ATi drivers(in YV12/YUY2) use the same exact Rec. ITU-R BT.601-5(for SD bits)/Rec. ITU-R BT.709-4(for HD bits) YCbPr>RGB decoding matrixes.

..only HR in YUY2 does not, its coeffs are not green enough :rolleyes:

[roozhou]

If you are encoding with mencoder/avidemux, play your source in mplayer.
If you are encoding with directshow based programs, play your source in mplayer2.exe in C:\program files\windows media player.
If you are encoding with avisynth, play your avs script.

[AntiJw]

I'd use something as reference that isn't bound to a specific platform or a specific vendor. This comes down to:
MPlayer (http://mulder.dummwiedeutsch.de/home/?page=projects#mplayer) and VLC Player (http://www.videolan.org/)

And if you are targeting mainly for the Windows platform, you should test at least:
Media Player Classic (http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/) + latest ffdshow (http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/)Thanks all. But with MPC +ffdshow-tryout (which I use often), is Haali the renderer most recommended?

leeperry: Different renderers give me different colors (Haali vs VMR).

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Thanks all. But with MPC +ffdshow-tryout (which I use often), is Haali the renderer most recommended?

It's probably one of the best renderers. But do many people use it?

I'd say Overlay Mixer, VRM9 and EVR should be used as reference, because these are the most commonly used ones...

[AntiJw]

It's probably one of the best renderers. But do many people use it?

I'd say Overlay Mixer, VRM9 and EVR should be used as reference, because these are the most commonly used ones...Okey, I'll use EVR (MPC-HC in WinXP) then, because Overlay Mixer and VRM9 gives me quite bad picture-quality, vibrating pixels even when I pause the video! :P

My question was related to if I need to use ColorMatrix(hints=true) or not when encoding MPEG2. If it looks better with ColorMatrix(hints=true), then I will use it.

EDIT: EVR gave me vibrating pixels even when I pause the video :P

[leeperry]

leeperry: Different renderers give me different colors (Haali vs VMR).
if you want proper colors in any given situation, set ffdshow to RGB32HQ, make a rule to use BT.601 for SD/BT.709 for HD...and you're all set :cool:
HR outputs exactly what ffdshow feeds it with, EVR/VMR are poorly manipulated by either your graphic card drivers or their crappy internal sharpening/scaling algorithms :o

[leeperry]

My question was related to if I need to use ColorMatrix(hints=true) or not when encoding MPEG2. If it looks better with ColorMatrix(hints=true), then I will use it.
well I bet you're encoding with x264, which requires YV12 input...you should only convert the colorspace if you encode SD in HD or the oppposite.

[Leak]

Okey, I'll use EVR (MPC-HC in WinXP) then, because Overlay Mixer and VRM9 gives me quite bad picture-quality, vibrating pixels even when I pause the video! :P
In that case something must be majorly misconfigured in your graphics driver settings, as MPC-HC and/or the decoders used don't do anything while playback is paused.

(And for the record, neither should your display driver, even if it would happen to bob the video...)

[AntiJw]

well I bet you're encoding with x264, which requires YV12 input...you should only convert the colorspace if you encode SD in HD or the opposite.Yeah, I use x264. Although I've used CoreAVC ("auto" on both settings) decoder for h264-video. I've had a bit too bright video using ffdshow, but I'll try "set ffdshow to RGB32HQ, make a rule to use BT.601 for SD/BT.709 for HD". I've read that you should use ColorMatrix(hints=true) if you reencode HDTV MPEG2-video. Thanks


In that case something must be majorly misconfigured in your graphics driver settings, as MPC-HC and/or the decoders used don't do anything while playback is paused.

(And for the record, neither should your display driver, even if it would happen to bob the video...)Yeah I think so too, but strangely, the pixels don't vibrate during pause (or during playback) when I use Haali renderer.

[leeperry]

Yeah, I use x264. Although I've used CoreAVC ("auto" on both settings) decoder for h264-video. I've had a bit too bright video using ffdshow, but I'll try "set ffdshow to RGB32HQ, make a rule to use BT.601 for SD/BT.709 for HD". I've read that you should use ColorMatrix(hints=true) if you reencode HDTV MPEG2-video. Thanks
are you talking about watching encodes, or encoding in x264 ?
you should encode the untouched YV12 cropped source, OTOH for best results you should watch them with the settings I told you about ;)

I'm not sure what (hints=true) does, prolly it's tagging the stream with the matrix info(601 or 709)...but that doesn't really matter as long as you stay in YV12 during encoding and don't make SD>HD or HD>SD encodes ;)

besides DGIndex says BT.709 sometimes for DVD, but it's impossible....SD=601, end of story AFAIK :o

[AntiJw]

are you talking about watching encodes, or encoding in x264 ?
you should encode the untouched YV12 cropped source, OTOH for best results you should watch them with the settings I told you about ;)I'm generally talking about watching encodes, for seeing if it matches (colors, brightness) with the my x264-reencode (I have mostly color-differences with MPEG2 and VC-1 Blu-ray/HD DVD sources). Thanks, I'll try your settings.

[Leak]

Yeah I think so too, but strangely, the pixels don't vibrate during pause (or during playback) when I use Haali renderer.
Well, no surprise there since Haali uses the 3D hardware to convert the YUV images to RGB and display those as textures on a screen-filling 3D rectangle - there's not much the driver can interfere with after the images have been through that...

np: Jah Wobble - I Want (Alpha One Three)

[AntiJw]

Well, no surprise there since Haali uses the 3D hardware to convert the YUV images to RGB and display those as textures on a screen-filling 3D rectangle - there's not much the driver can interfere with after the images have been through that...Thanks for that info, I probably need to reinstall Win XP and the Nvidia-drivers then.

EDIT: Now, when I changed "output-formats" in CoreAVC to all but YV12, then there were no shaky pixels (playing a x264 720p video, strange because x264 uses YV12), even not with different renderers (VMR9 and VMR7).. My graphicsdrivers seems to hate YV12 :P

[Steveo08]

Well, no surprise there since Haali uses the 3D hardware to convert the YUV images to RGB and display those as textures on a screen-filling 3D rectangle - there's not much the driver can interfere with after the images have been through that...

np: Jah Wobble - I Want (Alpha One Three)




how can i get yuv to rgb conversion in haali?

[Leak]

how can i get yuv to rgb conversion in haali?
Ummm... by using it? Every computer monitor can only display RGB, so Haali's renderer has always had to do it...

If you meant to ask how to configure it - don't ask me, I never use Haali's renderer; it's too black box for me.

[leeperry]

how can i get yuv to rgb conversion in haali?
don't bother, its YUY2>RGB32 601/709 coeffs are not accurate at all.
if you want proper colors....stay away from YUY2 in HR :
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1133980&highlight=YUY2#post1133980

it doesn't matter if your display is not calibrated, though ;)