NTSC or Film, Progressive or Interlaced this is confusing.

[smokeslikeapoet]

This is the first time I've come across this one. I am backing up the Sex in the City first season episodes DVD. I thought it would be a challenge because the original source is TV.

I figured out how to rip the individual episodes with smart rip, but when I went to DVD2AVI I did a preview first to see if I would get NTSC or Film, or if it would say anything else weird. It kept flipping back and forth between Film 55% Progressive and NTSC 25% Interlaced. I captured the screen shots, but I really don't know what it means, or what trouble I'm going to go through. Do I need to deinterlace, if so what option do I choose. This is going to take a while to rip all 6 episodes individually and I want to do it right the first time.

Thanks for all your help, you guys are great.

[smokeslikeapoet]

I almost forgot the screenshots.

http://www.slaprecords.com/personal/sc1.jpg

http://www.slaprecords.com/personal/sc2.jpg

[seoulsteve]

Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon is like that too; it keeps flipping back and forth between FILM 98% (or a different percentage) and NTSC. I used FORCED FILM on it without problems. it's actually quite a beautiful encode!

in your case, i suggest you use FORCED FILM. the stats window in DVD2AVI will flutter back and forth from NTSC to FILM. just bear with it. your end result will be a problem-free d2v.

[jggimi]

I noticed in your first screenshot that the framerate was 23.976, and the content showed as FILM 55%

I assume, therefore, that Force FILM was left on. Your source is video, not telecined film. So turn Force FILM off, then try running your F5 preview in DVD2AVI again.

My guess is, at that point, you'll see NTSC % and either INTERLACED or PROGRESSIVE.

If it's interlaced, you'll have to de-interlace. Choice is "fast" or "smart" -- smart de-interlacing may produce better looking results, but it can extend your encoding time. In my case, by nearly 3X when I had interlaced source.

I hope this information helps.

[smokeslikeapoet]

I took a better look at it with Forced film turned off. It does a bunch of switching back and forth during the opening credits. I think that's what confused me. In the majority of the episode DVD2AVI says Film 75% progressive. I turned forced film back on an I'm encoding the first episode now. I'm should be finished in an hour and I'll let you know what it looked like, that way someone else might be helped as well.

[manono]

Did you scroll through your .d2v in Gordian Knot? My guess is it's heavily interlaced, not to mention jerky. Just a guess, though.

If so, you probably should reconstruct the frames using Decomb or GreedyHMA. If it's interlaced and you just slap a deinterlacer on it, you're liable to wind up with a bunch of ghosted frames. Those TV source DVDs are a bitch to work on.

[slodki]

Sorry, but this might sound stupid....

On all the encodes that i have done, the source was always interlaced, and i never used the de-interlacer...

My question is, are you ment to use it, becuase all the rips that i have done, there is nothing wrong with them.. And if i do use it, will there be an increase in quality??

And, one other thing, what happens when a source is interlaced? Like what does it mean??

Once again, sorry for such a stupid question, if its too stupid, then just reply saying so, and i will try to find the answer somewhere else :P

[manono]

Hey slodki- If you've never had to mess with interlaced material, then count your blessings. It's those parallel horizontal fine black lines that show up most frequently in motion scenes, particularly when the source is TV or anime material. If you've only worked with major Hollywood type movies (you're PAL, right?), then even though DVD2AVI says interlaced, it lies evidently (and if you're working in NTSC land, Forced Film will take care of it). And in spite of what some say, using a deinterlacer only degrades quality.

[smokeslikeapoet]

Oh yeah, I'm already finished with the first 2 episodes and its turning out great, just used force film. The only lines that I see is maybe 10 frames in the opening credits. The rest is gravy, what the Manono said about using DVD2AVI on NTSC must be correct, no deinterlacer either. My girlfriend is going to be so happy, now she can watch Sex in the City at work.

[diji1]

Hi slodki,

manono is exactly right in his answer - as per the norm :) ( count your blessings you have non-interlaced material so far is about right ) , but just to clarify things for you ( i live 800 km from you :) ), if dvd2avi says interlaced for a pal source just watch the picture very carefully - if you see black lines in it you have an interlaced source, if not then treat the video as un-interlaced.

In my experince very few PAL dvds are actually interlaced and the dvd2avi preview does show nearly all PAL dvds as interalced as u say. The ones that have been i used "fast deinterlace" field operation because the smart deinterlace seemed to really mess up the picture quality. Watch out particuarly for "all-region" dvds as all these that i have got were true interlaced PAL - perhaps a fluke anyhow, dvd2avi plus your eyes is the best way to find out.

[smokeslikeapoet]

Newbie question, but I did try to look for the answer first. PAL is the standard in Europe and the rest of the world? NTSC is for North America, correct? I'm not going to find many (if any) PAL DVDs here in the United States? Let me know if that is a correct assumtion. Also if anyone could briefly explain the differences in the two standards I would appreciate it.

[jggimi]

Originally posted by smokeslikeapoet
Also if anyone could briefly explain the differences in the two standards I would appreciate it.

There are plenty of websites that can explain the differences to you ... Doom9 has some great pointers and terrific info for you in his DVD guides right here.

Briefly: In North America, the power supplied by your local electric power company is 110-120 Volts, at 60 Hertz. In most of the rest of the world, power is at varying voltage, but at 50 Hertz.

Now, the ol' console Philco TV, Black & White, way back in the '50s took that 60 cycles-per-second power and used it, with simple electronics, to produce images at 30 fps.

Guess what those TV's in 50 Hertz countries used? Right. 25fps.

NTSC went from -- if I got this right -- 30fps for B/W to 29.97fps for color. The color conversion in PAL didn't need to change framerates.

DVDs in NTSC are primarily for sale in North America and Japan, PAL for primarily the rest of the world -- Region codes notwithstanding.

You've probably seen talk of Telecine content. These are 24fps movies on film -- that old fashioned stuff with sprocket holes on the sides -- that are converted to 29.97fps for display on TV.

For more, you can start with Doom9's guides and links.

[allvov]

You are right guyz, just finished Beyond Suspicion, it was 29.97fps and jumping between Film Progressive and NTSC Interlaced. Just used ForceFilm and GKnot soft deinterlacing and it was OK

[aramo]

In reply to smokeslikeapoets' question on diffs between PAL and NTSC encoded DVDs. I'm in Europe so R2/PAL DVDs are the norm but I happen to have a lot of R1 and R0 DVDs that are NTSC. Some of the R0s are very vexing to work with.

Using gknot and divx412 I can say that given a choice I'd always opt for a PAL DVD - they are much easier to work with and less prone to interlacing and/or telecine issues.

R1 DVDs do tend to have better bonux features, commentaries etc.