Blue Ray to DVD....looks good

[ron spencer]

So I tried [spam removed] for fun last night converting my Blue Ray of The Nightmare Before Christmas to DVD. I was surprised to find that it looked better than my original DVD version. Should this be the case? If this is something that one could hope for then backing stuff up for trips to the cottage just got better. Any comments on this from the video gurus?

[Dark Shikari]

This is completely unsurprising; Blu-rays are sometimes mastered better than DVDs, and sometimes DVDs are not very well encoded either.

(Of course, it can go the other way around, with some DVDs being mastered much better than their respective Blu-rays).

[ron spencer]

it surprised me a bit...I figured what you said would be the case, but convertx2dvd is just a simple one pass encoder....I suspect you would get even better quality with 2-pass (why they do not ofer this I do not know). I looked at some high action scenes again...man is the conversion nice.

[setarip_old]

@ron spencer

Hi!

1) Does this program rip original BluRay disc to your hard drive?

2) Does it make a full DVD backup of the BluRay disc or "movie only"?

[ron spencer]

@setarip

I use AnyDVD to rip whole move...BDInfo to find what mts files are in the MAIN MOVIE play list, then use txmuxer to mux only the main movie an audio into m2ts.

VSO's ConvertX then takes the m2ts and in 1 hour one-pass I have a dvd that looks stunning....mind you the DVD I tried is only 75 mins, so single layer conversion is fine...may try a longer movie for dual layer later.

Impressive....better than my original SD DVD of this movie...may do this for all my blue rays if I have time....still if they had 2 pass is may be better, but perhaps not.

@neuron2

not sure why you put spam in my message...not trying to spam...just curious as to why BR to DVD looks nicer than DVD in this case...esp, since h264 is very highly compressed vs. mpeg-2

[setarip_old]

Thanks for the info ;>}

[lithoc]

I use Avisynth(just crop & resize with no additional filters) > HC_Enc 2pass (HVSBest matrix) ......
Look great!!! Even in medium bitrate +4mbps

You need to tweak HC_Enc settings to get optimum results

IMHO. to get best of DVD. try encode into 16:9 rather than 2.4:1
You'll get full 720x480!!!

[ron spencer]

what is your avs scripts to encode the h264 from BR?

you use graphedit as well?

to get to DVD you would need to resize...you just use lanzcos resize?

[EuropeanMan]

from high to low, use spline64resize

DirectShowSource("F:\movie name\BDMV\STREAM\00011.m2ts",fps=23.9760431376968,audio=false)

Crop()

Resize()

[Lyris]

So I tried [spam removed] for fun last night converting my Blue Ray of The Nightmare Before Christmas to DVD. I was surprised to find that it looked better than my original DVD version. Should this be the case? If this is something that one could hope for then backing stuff up for trips to the cottage just got better. Any comments on this from the video gurus?

This is not surprising in the slightest; because commercial DVDs are subjected to low-pass filtering (usually excessively) prior the compression. This means that their effective resolution is actually lower than you'd expect. High frequency details are removed, to avoid compression artefacts whilst facilitating lower bit rates and faster encoding.

Home made BD->DVD conversions done without any sort of filter are likely to look considerably better than the official DVDs.

[c2turbo]

I seen a prog. here not that long ago i think it was avgo (media recorder). It says that all u have to do is play the BD file on your bd player and avgo will copy it anywhere you want , one Step BD2DVD or BD2 psp ps2 or other media players ! Has anyone tryed it ? I dont have hd or bd player so I cant say it will ,but author says it will .I would think you could play hd movie thats on hard disk and copy it to dvd with out down grading contents- movie !! This is supposed to simple, fast and true !

[mikeylikess99]

hi, chiming in a bit late here, but have a question regarding putting bd content on dvd. i actually followed the process of tsremuxing etc, and splitting, and while it plays on nero fine, when i try burning the movie on to dvd, my samsung player-1500 series says it cant read disk. anyone. tyvm in advance.

[ron spencer]

yep....sorry but it is a major issue now. All has to do with firmware of your player. If you put Blu Ray on DVD, your player needs to have a firmware to read it...many don't. I have gone to many elec. stores to test and alot fail. My LG BH200 had a firmware update that removed this feature...so I flashed it back.

You need:

1. a single layer DVD with BR content on it.
2. a dual layer DVD with BR content on it.
3. A BD-R (blank 25 gig blu ray blank) withg BR content on it.

Take all these to video store BEFORE you buy a blu ray player to be sure they will play blu ray content on writeable disc.

Assuming you used ImgBurn to create a UDF 2.5 file structure (blu ray), you are just out of luck. It is your hardware that is not letting you play. Nothing you can do I am afraid (again assuming you made it correctly).

You could sell the unit and buy one that will play the stuff (Sony will I think)

[mikeylikess99]

hi ron, thanks for the heads up. im kinda disapointed that this sumsung wont read dvd disk with bluray content, after reading that others are able to do so. im curtiuos to know which models actually do so. anyone have a link on such info. thanks

[setarip_old]

@mikeylikes99

Hi!

Since you didn't specifically respond to one of the points made by "Ron Spencer", I'll repeat it in question form:

Did you (as you must) burn your disc using UDF 2.5 format?

[mikeylikess99]

@mikeylikes99

Hi!

Since you didn't specifically respond to one of the points made by "Ron Spencer", I'll repeat it in question form:

Did you (as you must) burn your disc using UDF 2.5 format?

Hi Set, yes indeed i did put the udf at 2.5. however im reading that in my manual for the samsung bdp-1500 that discs must be finalized at the burn stage. im wondering if this is the problem.

[ron spencer]

Use imgburn to do this only. What did u burn with

[mikeylikess99]

Use imgburn to do this only. What did u burn with

hey ron i used nero burning rom.

[ron spencer]

That is likely your problem. Use imgburn to burn your stuff to udf 2.5

[TM2-Megatron]

Doesn't really surprise me, either. I edited some footage from the WALL-E Blu-Ray (which uses H.264) for a fanvideo, and I burned a DVD version of it in addition to the 1080p *.mp4 on my computer; and it looked absolutely incredible on played on an upscaling DVD player to a 46" 1080p LCD TV. I encoded the MPEG-2 using TMPGEnc 4.0 Xpress, and I wasn't really sure what to expect; but I can't imagine the regular DVD for this movie looking any better (I haven't seen the film on DVD, though)

[setarip_old]

@mikeylikes99

Check out this thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1237966#post1237966

[rica]

Another method i'd suggest if you have an nVidia card:

DGAVCNVDecode for h264 source and DGVC1Decode for VC1 source.

Create a dga or dgv script file.

Run CUVID Server and serve with these AVS files:

For DGAVCDecodeNV:
LoadPlugin("C:\users\rica\desktop\DGAVC\DGAVCDecodeNV.dll")
AVCSource("G:\CETK\New_out.dga")
LanczosResize(720,480)

For DGVC1DecodeNV:
LoadPlugin("C:\users\rica\desktop\DGVC1\DGVC1DecodeNV.dll")
VC1Source("G:\City\video_out.dgv")
LanczosResize(720,480)

Open those avs files with HC022 and convert them to mpeg2.

Ati owners may use DGAVCDecode for h264; it's a software based application which uses Libav codec. For VC1, there is no SW based solution so far...
_ _ __

[mikeylikess99]

@mikeylikes99

Check out this thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1237966#post1237966

Hey Setarip, thanks for the heads up on those links, as im sure they will help in near future. What i can tell you is that i WAS able to view the movie. Funny thing is i was only able to do so when i did a "test" run using nero and dvd video. i was totally amazed at the video definitely blu ray caliber, and the audio was phenominal. significant other could not elief it with her own eyes. i am however having troubles getting sound(audio) from a copy of a movie a buddy gave me of his own. is there somwere here that deals with that type of discussion, i can even give info from gspot. tyvm in advance.

[setarip_old]

@Ron Spencer

You might want to try (freeware) DVD Flick, which DOES offer two-pass - most impressive results ;>}

[jfcarbel]

Another method i'd suggest if you have an nVidia card:

DGAVCNVDecode for h264 source and DGVC1Decode for VC1 source.

Create a dga or dgv script file.

Run CUVID Server and serve with these AVS files:

For DGAVCDecodeNV:
LoadPlugin("C:\users\rica\desktop\DGAVC\DGAVCDecodeNV.dll")
AVCSource("G:\CETK\New_out.dga")
LanczosResize(720,480)

For DGVC1DecodeNV:
LoadPlugin("C:\users\rica\desktop\DGVC1\DGVC1DecodeNV.dll")
VC1Source("G:\City\video_out.dgv")
LanczosResize(720,480)

Open those avs files with HC022 and convert them to mpeg2.

Ati owners may use DGAVCDecode for h264; it's a software based application which uses Libav codec. For VC1, there is no SW based solution so far...
_ _ __

Also would it not make sense to crop any widescreen black letterbox prior to the encode. Not real familiar with avs to say how thats done. But tools like BD Rebuilder beta may already do this. You might try this tool.

UPDATE: LOL, Ron I see you already are checking into this in another thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144354).

[rica]

But tools like BD Rebuilder beta may already do this. You might try this tool.


Yes there are one click solutions like BDRebuilder and AVStoDVD.
But what i would like is to choose my filters/ or methods by myself.
So it was just a suggestion; another one would be using a graph based avs method.
Sure you may prefer to use an one click application; it's up to you. :)

Edit: This encoding has been done using the method i gave on previous post:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=610f03b89c15442e91b20cc0d07ba4d2866e9feea9a88b46


_ _ _ _ _ _

[setarip_old]

@ron spencerI was surprised to find that it looked better than my original DVD version.Would you be good enough to post a couple of images for comparison?

[rica]

set,
you will find most surprising when you check what encoders have been using by professional studios: most of them is 50 dolar ones; you may check with MediaInfo...
So, encoded files to mpeg from a BD with HC might be look much better than the original DVD.
Check uploaded file on my previous post.



_ _ _ _ _

[setarip_old]

@rica

Thanks, but I was already aware of the link in your previous post.

I'm curious to see the results obtained by "ron spencer" using the methodology he described...

[rica]

Oh, OK.
Sorry set.

[SquallMX]

My own comparation using The Dark Knight:

Top Retail DVD9 NTSC (Warner, 4.5 Mbps), Bottom Bluray2DVD Backup DVD5 (CCE SP2, 3.0 Mbps using Avisynth with DGAVCDecode):

http://www.imagechile.net/img/img4_1228591298z.png
http://www.imagechile.net/img/img9_1228581303e.png

http://www.imagechile.net/img/img6_1228581123i.png
http://www.imagechile.net/img/img9_1228581001v.png

Conclusion: Warner MPEG-2 encoder sucks really bad :mad:, Cinema Craft Encoder SP2 at 2/3 of the original bitrate is the absolute winner :cool:.

[nwg]

It's not hard to create a DVD better than the orignal. Too many DVD's have things like Edge Enhancement that can ruin a DVD. The R2 Iron Man DVD is very poor sometimes and the Blu Ray to DVD I made is much better and has none of the edge enhancement that plagues the original DVD.

[Sharc]

Confirmed.
DVDs created from BD are often better than the retail DVD, and always better that backups of retail DVDs in my experience.
I use HCenc for mpeg-2 recoding and DVDAuthorGUI for muxing and authoring.
Script which I open in HCenc (for PAL):

loadplugin("...your path here....\DGAVCDecodeNV.dll")
AVCSource("...your path here...\your movie.dga")
Spline36Resize(720,576)
AssumeFPS(25)

AssumeFPS(25) is for PAL speedup.
For audio "speedup" I use eac3to.

Added:
Btw, as all BluRay discs are either 24.000 fps (film) or 24/1001=23.976... fps, how is this handled during playback in PAL countries? By pulldown, or some other technology? Just curious....

[gizzin]

god damn it, now I'm going to have to screen the dvds, and bluerays I buy. Thanks guys :)

[~bT~]

Btw, as all BluRay discs are either 24.000 fps (film) or 24/1001=23.976... fps, how is this handled during playback in PAL countries? By pulldown, or some other technology? Just curious....

not an issue here in the UK as most of the stuff can handle both formats.

[Sharc]

Yeah, it's handled here as well. I am just wondering about the technology behind it i.e. how the "odd" BD frame rates align with the 25 or 50 frames (50Hz power frequency sync) of PAL playback devices for a smooth playback. Maybe the 25 or 50 are just historic and modern (progressive) devices synchronize directly to any (23.976, 24.000, 25, 39....) progressive source frame rate?
For DVD there have always been 2 different versions for NTSC and PAL using their dedicated methods like pulldown or speedup as far as I understand. For BD there are no NTSC or PAL versions any more (not as I would regret....).

Oh well, this is perhaps getting somewhat off topic. Never mind.

[Sysmic Wave]

Doesn't really surprise me, either. I edited some footage from the WALL-E Blu-Ray (which uses H.264) for a fanvideo, and I burned a DVD version of it in addition to the 1080p *.mp4 on my computer; and it looked absolutely incredible on played on an upscaling DVD player to a 46" 1080p LCD TV. I encoded the MPEG-2 using TMPGEnc 4.0 Xpress, and I wasn't really sure what to expect; but I can't imagine the regular DVD for this movie looking any better (I haven't seen the film on DVD, though)

Has anyone tried to encode to MPEG-2 after compressing a M2TS to fit on a DVD-R using TMPGEnc 4 Xpress.

For example, I ripped, muxed to M2TS and then, using MeGui compressed the file to a 4.37 GB MKV.

Then, I stuck that back into TSMuxer and recreated a M2TS which plays brilliantly on my PS3.

I then decided to reencode the DVD sized M2TS to MPEG-2 with TMPGEnc but even after a 2 pass encode the video is really jerky.

If i try to encode the original M2TS, the blu-ray rip, or the MKV the video is fine.

Any ideas?

Thanks

[smok3]

i doubt one would be able to do it better from a lossy source, even if it is HD and even if you use '3 times' better mpeg2 encoder.

[Rumbah]

@Shark: The ideal situation is if the player can output 24p and the TV can understand it and do its own thing.

Unfortunately, no player can do a PAL speedup although it would be great.

Normally the player does a 3:2 pulldown to 60i. The TV has to deinterlace it to 60p. If the TV does not accept 60 Hz, then it discards 10 fields per second. As the whole process is not very clever most modern TVs detect that and apply inverse telecine and do their own thing.

[Sharc]

Thanks Rumbah. I thought it must be something rather tricky for the PAL/50Hz world.

[nwg]

Added:
Btw, as all BluRay discs are either 24.000 fps (film) or 24/1001=23.976... fps, how is this handled during playback in PAL countries? By pulldown, or some other technology? Just curious....

It is the same as in the US. If the display cannot handle 1080p/24 properly then it defaults to 1080p/60. My display is 720p so while it accepts 1080p/24 it comes out as 720p/24.

I have done Blu Ray on DVD and kept the 24hz while resizing down to 720p. On playback it turns into 720p/60. If I upscale it to 1080p it comes out as 1080p/24 again which is then back down to 720p/24. Although, all the up and downscaling doesn't sound ideal, it still does look good.

I always use 720p for BD to DVD as 1080p processing takes a lot longer to do. I barely get 1fps processing.

[Lyris]

Yes, BDs of movies in Europe are just mastered at 23.976fps, just as they are in the US. The player will output this as 60i or 60p for compatibility with TVs that do not support 24p input natively.

It's not so much the detail reduction that surprises me on Hollywood titles, it's the amount of compression artefacts they still manage to get despite having almost no high frequency video data left. Shocking...

[Surf]

I have lurking around for quite sometime now and found that my preference in backup is not too popular.

Blu-Ray/HD-DVD to sdDVD dual layer, movie only for upconverting standalones. Oh well.

Question on dealing with VC1...how and what's the substitute to Neuron's Nvidia based dgvc1decNV? I have an ATI 2600XT...

2nd, there was a brief debate of the choice of resizer...so which is it appropriate? Bilinear, Lanzco4, spline...?

3rd, FOX1 is the suitable matrix for over 7000kbs?

TIA

[Blue_MiSfit]

1) A good substitute would be WMVideo Decoder DMO, or ffdshow
2) Downsizing from HD to SD - I usually prefer spline36, but that's just me.
3) Not sure :) I recall the FOX matrices are "high bitrate" as they say, but I don't do a lot of MPEG-2 encoding.

I bet that will be one nice looking DVD when you're all finished. A pity you're not doing at least 720p :P

~MiSfit

[tom942]

@Surf

I just talk from my experience enconding backups with DVD-RB and using sometimes a standalone encoder, mainly HC.

To question 3, it is recommended for bitrates over 4000 kpbs, but mainly you must take into account the final quant. It is a matrix that fits perfectly between an average quant of 7 to 10. Even up to 12. Just check the final encode with Bitrate Viewer, similar app or if you use HC, enable log report.

I hope it helps you :).

[Surf]

Blue_MiSfit
I bet that will be one nice looking DVD when you're all finished. A pity you're not doing at least 720p :P

Lol, that's what I hope to achieve! The reason I avoided 720p means I still to play either through the computer or a blu-ray standalone. I am sure that the movie down convert to a dual layer with max bits and one ac5.1 and a subtitle is plenty satisfactory when played with a upconverting player. Someday I probably will, when the player's $49 and the i7 with 8ghz...:D

Now will any kind soul share a simple script to feed the VC1 to HCenc? Read somewhere about Haley comet aligned with graphedit...

TIA

[Brazil2]

I want to make a DVD from a BD which is 23.976 fps progressive. I don't want to speed it up to 25 fps so I have a question:
is 23.976 fps progressive content allowed on a NTSC DVD ? Or is a 3:2 pulldown soft telecine required to be applied during the encoding ?

Even though I've read tons of FAQ's I couldn't find a clear answer to this question. I live in PAL land so I don't know much about NTSC material.

[Blue_MiSfit]

@Skurf:
So... you're going to spend all that cash on (verbatim, right?) dual layer DVD+R discs, go through all the hassle of doing a 2 pass MPEG-2 encode, then authoring a DVD, then burning it (at 2.4x, right?), all so you can save some money on a player?

My advice? Save up and get one of the awesome little network media players like the WDTV (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572&language=en) or the Popcorn Hour (http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/).

Then just do a nice high quality 720p or 1080p x264 encode, and keep all the quality of your source, and stream it across the network or direct connect with an external drive.

The script you asked for will look something like this:

DSS2("movie.mkv") #This should be the MKV containing H.264 or VC-1 that eac3to rips off the disc
Spline36Resize(720,480) #God help you.

That's all you really need for downconverting to 480p for DVD encoding.

@Brazil2
Yes of course it is. That's what soft pulldown is for!

Simply encode the video with an MPEG-2 encoder like HC which supports soft pulldown. It will encode at 23.976, and apply the pulldown flags. Author / burn the result and you will get perfect 24p out of your progressive scan dvd player or PC, and perfect 60i when hooked into an interlaced set.

~MiSfit

[manono]

Author / burn the result and you will get perfect 24p out of your progressive scan dvd player or PC, and perfect 60i when hooked into an interlaced
It's correct that it'll play the fields in a 3 2 3 2 pattern at 59.94 fields per second to an interlaced display. With a player set for progressive scan and outputting to a progressive display, it'll still play in a 3 2 3 2 pattern, but at 59.94 frames per second, and not 24p (or 23.976fps). What happens when played on a PAL set is determined, as I understand it, by whether or not the display can play NTSC or must convert it first to PAL.

[Brazil2]

OK, thanks for clarification :)

[Surf]

Just tried an AVC test clip on a "making of". Pretty good except it seems slightly soft(or it's my imagination). Neuron's MSsharpen may help??

Blue_Misfit, yes it is Verbatim which I hoarded when it went on sale and burn @6x, too impatient at 2.4x !! I don't need to save for WD or Popcorn...more of working up the courage to face the nagging. Already have 3 players and 2 Tosh A3...but will definitely consider WD's 2nd version which should have a slot for a 2TB. That would be awesome!

Question, can the mkv step be avoided? Not that it's a big deal...

Loadplugin(c:\Haali\avss.dll)#wherever that is
DSS2(x:\greatmovie.???)#mkv or?
#lol, what's this "god help me"?

[Lyris]

I want to make a DVD from a BD which is 23.976 fps progressive. I don't want to speed it up to 25 fps so I have a question:
is 23.976 fps progressive content allowed on a NTSC DVD ? Or is a 3:2 pulldown soft telecine required to be applied during the encoding ?

Even though I've read tons of FAQ's I couldn't find a clear answer to this question. I live in PAL land so I don't know much about NTSC material.

You can create an NTSC DVD which has a 2:3 or 3:2 pulldown flag contained in the video stream, yes. That means that only the 24 frames per second will be stored on the disc and the MPEG decoder in the player will repeat the necessary fields upon playback.

[Brazil2]

Simply encode the video with an MPEG-2 encoder like HC which supports soft pulldown. It will encode at 23.976, and apply the pulldown flags.

You can create an NTSC DVD which has a 2:3 or 3:2 pulldown flag contained in the video stream, yes. That means that only the 24 frames per second will be stored on the disc and the MPEG decoder in the player will repeat the necessary fields upon playback.
Encoding done, thanks for the answers :)

The scan type is shown as progressive in MediaInfo but Gspot says it's interlaced with 3:2 telecine (Pics/s: 23.976, Frames/s: 29.97, Fields/s: 59.94) which appears to be the same as some other NTSC DVD's I have.

Now one last thing which is still not clear for me:
Since there will be this movie only on the DVD, only one title, should I author the DVD as a NTSC DVD or a NTSC-film DVD ?

[manono]

Since there will be this movie only on the DVD, only one title, should I author the DVD as a NTSC DVD or a NTSC-film DVD ?
It might help if you told us what authoring program makes such a distinction. If you're giving it already compliant files to author, you shouldn't have to make such a choice. It also sounds as if it'll reencode it if you don't give it the answer it's looking for. Personally, I'd be very suspicious of any program that offers a choice like that.

[Brazil2]

It might help if you told us what authoring program makes such a distinction.

It also sounds as if it'll reencode it if you don't give it the answer it's looking for.
DVD Flick.
And I'm using its "copy stream" feature so it won't reencode.

I've already made some PAL DVD's with DVD Flick and never had any problem but this will be my very first NTSC DVD so I just need to know if I should use NTSC DVD or NTSC-film DVD format.

[manono]

This guide seems to say those are encoding settings, based on the source file framerate:

http://beginwithsoftware.com/videoguides/dvd-flick-guide.html

However, if you also have to make the choice when just authoring (makes no sense), then you definitely want NTSC-Film.

[simonhowson]

I'm trying to convert a VC1 encoded Blu-ray to DVD, but when I open my script in HCenc023, it says that the film is over 12 hours long (it is actually 2 hours 44 minutes). This means even after it has gone through one pass of the entire film, it keeps on encoding, instead of going to the 2nd pass.

I can play the TS file in Media Player Classic Home Cinema, so I thought that meant I would have the right decoders installed to decode the file properly. I create the script in MeGUI and CAN'T play back the file in the window that opens.

I also have PowerDVD 7.3 on my computer, is there a way to use those decoders?

Edit: I just tried converting the same script to x264 using MeGUI, and it too thinks the video is 12 hours long.

[setarip_old]

@simonhowson

Hi!

1) What's the title fo the BluRay?

2) What software and procedures did you use to rip your original BluRay disc?

3) Does a mounted image of the rip play properly under PowerDVD v.7.3? If so, what running time does it display?

[simonhowson]

1) What's the title fo the BluRay?
How the West Was Won (according to AnyDVD HD, it doesn't have BD+ protection if that is what you were alluding to).

2) What software and procedures did you use to rip your original BluRay disc?
I am running AnyDVD HD 6.5.4.0. I ripped it using TSMuxer by just selecting the main video track, and the Dolby Digital audio track and selecting demux. This produced a VC1 file and the Dolby Digital file.

3) Does a mounted image of the rip play properly under PowerDVD v.7.3? If so, what running time does it display? [/Color]
I haven't ripped it as an image, I will do that. Playing back the VC1 file in PowerDVD works, but it says it is 12 hours 5 minutes as well.

EDIT: I have ripped the entire disc, when I play the TS file it says the film is 5 hours 28 minutes long. WHich is closer, but still not 2 hours 44 minutes which it should be.

EDIT 2: I have successfully ripped the disc to an image, and mounted it in VirtualClone Drive. It plays perfectly, and shows the right time 2 hours 44 minutes 40 seconds.

I still can't figure out how to rip just the video and dolby digital track that I need without the vc1 file being read as if it is 12 hours or 5 hours long.

I am trying to rip the files from the image (i.e. not from the disc) using tsMuxeR now.

EDIT 3: If I use TsMuxer to extract the VC1 file to a TS file, it plays properly with the right time. If I just extract it to a VC1, it says the video is 12 hours long.

EDIT 4: I muxed the VC1 and Dolby Digital files into a MKV file using MKVmerge in MeGUI. The file plays properly in VLC including displaying the correct duration, even though VLC can't play the VC1 file on its own.

[turbojet]

If you haven't had success yet. What I would suggest is instead of demuxing the VC-1 track, load the m2ts directly with an avs like: directshowsource("00000.m2ts",audio=false) you may also need fps=23.976 depending on what decoder you are using.

The problem I believe is the .ts stream doesn't have fps info. I don't know if this is a bug of tsmuxer demux or not.

To tell what decoder you are using you can use graphstudio or graphedit, I would suggest using WMV9 from WMP11 as it handles almost everything and is the fastest decoder. You might be able to powerDVD 7.3 decoders, depending on the version if you make a graph like: file source (async) -> cyberlink demux -> cyberlink vc-1 decoder and use this in place of the m2ts in directshowsource of the avs.

[Surf]

After hours spent, I finally made my very first movie-only copy from a blu vc1. Dual layer, dwngrade to AC5.1, one subtitle and WOW! "Hi-def" enough to me carrot-starved eyes.

Simonhowson,

I did not come across your "12 hour movie" problem on a wild guess that I have installed the Haali splitter. In AVSP, I fooled around to come to the following:

Loadplugin(avss.dll) #Haali's
Loadplugin(Msharpen.dll) #Neuron's great sharpener!
DSS2(greatmovie.m2ts) #I didn't even demux!
Splineresize32(720,480)
Msharpen(9,100,hq=true,mask=false) #magnifico!

Now questions for the inhouse experts:

The above is proper? resize then sharpen or vice versa? Mild denoising thrown in? This particular new movie is very "clean".

Thanks again for all the help.

Now I am still waiting for that OXtail to brush up with his great but rough bdsup2sub prog.

[ron spencer]

@surf...do you find you NEED to use msharpen?

[Surf]

Apparently so, Ron.

I have been playing inside AVSP which is great with the ability of allowing a noobie user like me to use sliders for the settings. And Msharpen does NOT contribute noise, just making the picture with more "pop", more "hi-def" look. My eyes honestly could not distinguish the diff. I know I know it's still not hi-def....

[Lyris]

The problem I believe is the .ts stream doesn't have fps info. I don't know if this is a bug of tsmuxer demux or not.That would make sense, when I author BDs, I have to feed it the FPS info for each Clip by hand.

[ron spencer]

@surf...I never thought to try msharpen...will try it out!!!

[simonhowson]

Simonhowson,

I did not come across your "12 hour movie" problem on a wild guess that I have installed the Haali splitter. In AVSP, I fooled around to come to the following:
.

I got it to load properly using Haali splitter!

but now I have another problem. I want to encode the 2 hour 44 minute films to two single layer blanks. So I need to split the audio and video files at the 84 minute mark. What would be the best way to cut BOTH the VC1 image and the Dolby Digital audio files at exactly the same point?

[Surf]

Aww Simple Simon,

Don't go cheap now....using 2 single layer blanks. Might I suggest using dual layer disks instead? Then go nuts with the 1-pass 9000bits HC encoding cuz now you have tons of room?

Seriously, you may want to consider using AVIdemux instead of HCenc if you still insist on using 2 single layers. That's all I can think of. Write a simple script mentioned earlier and feed it thru avsproxygui(?) something like that.

The best solution? Sell you my never-opened sd version of that movie. :D

[davidcw]

After hours spent, I finally made my very first movie-only copy from a blu vc1. Dual layer, dwngrade to AC5.1, one subtitle and WOW! "Hi-def" enough to me carrot-starved eyes.


Hi Surf,
Do you mind listing the software you used to do this?
Thanks.
davidcw

[simonhowson]

Aww Simple Simon,

Don't go cheap now....using 2 single layer blanks. Might I suggest using dual layer disks instead? Then go nuts with the 1-pass 9000bits HC encoding cuz now you have tons of room?

Seriously, you may want to consider using AVIdemux instead of HCenc if you still insist on using 2 single layers. That's all I can think of. Write a simple script mentioned earlier and feed it thru avsproxygui(?) something like that.

The best solution? Sell you my never-opened sd version of that movie. :D
I was converting the Blu-ray version because it was released in Smilebox format (http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews40/how_the_west_was_won_blu-ray.htm) to simulate the film's correct appearance on a deeply curved Cinerama (http://widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingcr1.htm) screen.

Unfortunately Warner Home Video hasn't released the Smilebox version on DVD, but I needed to show some clips from the film in the Smilebox format over a Standard Definition projector. The film doesn't look right when shown on a flat screen. The screen curvature is designed to remove some of the barrel distortion caused by the three wide angle lenses on the cameras.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews40/how%20the%20west%20was%20won%20blu-ray/%20smiley%20800%20snapshot20080911190312.jpg

Regarding using single layer blanks. I thought these are generally considered more compatible than dual layer blanks? I needed to make sure the DVDs would work on an old player in a lecture theatre that I don't ordinarily have access to. So I didn't want to burn a dual layer blank only to find out that it wouldn't play. By using single layer blanks I was still able to use an average bitrate of around 6.5 Mbps, which worked out fine. In most Cinerama films that camera is usually static, because fast camera movement on the massive and deeply curved screens could cause motion sickness!

[simonhowson]

Hi Surf,
Do you mind listing the software you used to do this?
Thanks.
davidcw

I know you addressed your post to Surf, but this is what I used.

Haali Media Spliter to decode the VC1
http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/
MeGUI to create an AviSynth script for the video and to convert the audio:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/megui/
HcENC23 to load the AVIsynth script, and convert the HDVC1 to MPEG2
http://www.bitburners.com/software/hc-encoder-v023/4036/

To get the audio and video files off the disc, I just use the HD Stream Extractor in MeGUI (Tools, HD Stream extractor).

That took out the VC1 file and the Dolby Digital file. I had to convert the DD file down to 448 Kbps, because I don't think 640 Kbps files can be used for DVDs.

My AVS script just resized the image to 720 X 480. I then used the soft telecine (Pull Down) function in HCenc to create a 23.976 progressive NTSC DVD.

[davidcw]

I know you addressed your post to Surf, but this is what I used.


Thanks Simon. :thanks:

[Jan Marijniszoon]

After hours spent, I finally made my very first movie-only copy from a blu vc1. Dual layer, dwngrade to AC5.1, one subtitle and WOW! "Hi-def" enough to me carrot-starved eyes.

Simonhowson,

I did not come across your "12 hour movie" problem on a wild guess that I have installed the Haali splitter. In AVSP, I fooled around to come to the following:

Loadplugin(avss.dll) #Haali's
Loadplugin(Msharpen.dll) #Neuron's great sharpener!
DSS2(greatmovie.m2ts) #I didn't even demux!
Splineresize32(720,480)
Msharpen(9,100,hq=true,mask=false) #magnifico!

Now questions for the inhouse experts:

The above is proper? resize then sharpen or vice versa? Mild denoising thrown in? This particular new movie is very "clean".

Thanks again for all the help.

Now I am still waiting for that OXtail to brush up with his great but rough bdsup2sub prog.


Did you not forget the folowing:

LoadPlugin("ColorMatrix.dll")
ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601")

[ron spencer]

colormatrix??? what for?

ColorMatrix corrects the colors of MPEG-2 streams of dvds. More correctly, many MPEG-2 streams use slightly different coefficients (called Rec.709) for storing the color information than AviSynth's color conversion routines or the XviD/DivX decoders (called Rec.601) do, with the result that DivX/XviD clips or MPEG-2 clips encoded by TMPGEnc/QuEnc are displayed with slighty off colors (which looks like a small difference in brightness). This can be checked by opening the MPEG-2 stream directly in VDubMod.

this needed for hcenc? I have never used....stuff looks great

In addition, you need to use DGIndex to figure out colorimetry forst right? Dgindex is not used here

[manono]

colormatrix??? what for?
Because Hi-Def uses BT.709 and Std-Def uses BT.601. If you don't take the change into account when down converting the colors will change slightly.
In addition, you need to use DGIndex to figure out colorimetry forst right?
No.

[ron spencer]

So all HD is this? Necessry for hc as well?
Good to know

[laserfan]

And Msharpen does NOT contribute noise, just making the picture with more "pop", more "hi-def" look.I'm surprised to see this filter in the chain. One would think a "sharpen" when converting from HD to SD would be the *last thing* one would need, meaning "not needed" of course. I know I should just try it myself, but I wonder if anyone can comment on why this might be needed, apart from Surf's personal preference.

[ron spencer]

I know with digital imaging when you downsize for the web sharpening is really needed for nicer images. I suspect the same holds true for downsizing from HD. I do not know a mathematical reason why, but it does seem to be useful. The MSHARPEN setting of 9 is really conservative and does no damage. I quite like it and find it is a good suggestion....I never changed colorspace though, as was mentioned a few posts above, but will try that later.

[Jan Marijniszoon]

So all HD is this? Necessry for hc as well?
Good to know

I compared my conversion with a retail dvd.
Without "ColorMatrix" the colors were alot darker than the retail dvd. With "ColorMatrix" the colors looked simular to the retail dvd.
So it is recommended to use "ColorMatrix" before you resize.

[laserfan]

I compared my conversion with a retail dvd.
Without "ColorMatrix" the colors were alot darker than the retail dvd. With "ColorMatrix" the colors looked simular to the retail dvd.
So it is recommended to use "ColorMatrix" before you resize.Where in the chain did you put it, or...can you just share your script?

[SquallMX]

Where in the chain did you put it, or...can you just share your script?

You can put it after the resize, it's faster than before the resize, with pretty much the same quality but with faster processing.

:helpful:

[Rumbah]

My script for the video BluRay to DVD conversion looks like this:
Directshowsource("movie.mkv")
Assumefps(25)
Lanczos4Resize(720,576)
ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601", threads=0)
I use the Assumefps(25) for a PAL speedup.

[Jan Marijniszoon]

You can put it after the resize, it's faster than before the resize, with pretty much the same quality but with faster processing.

:helpful:

Yes but I am a quality freak, so does it matter? I don't mind the extra time, even if it adds only little quality.

So for maximum quality, when to apply ColorMatrix? Before or after downscaling?

[Rumbah]

Just test it and create three test clips, one without ColorMatrix as negative reference and one with Colormatrix before and one after resizing. If you cannot distinguish the latter two, then you can safely use ColorMatrix after resizing.