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View Full Version : Changing Blu-Ray structure to AVCHD ???


m1482
25th September 2008, 13:12
After creating a Blu-Ray structure with TsMuxer (H264 and AC3 files), is there an easy way to change it to the AVCHD format ?
Even that this 2 formats are similar, they are not the same, and my player works better with AVCHD !!!

Thanks for any help...

mmace
26th September 2008, 09:55
thought they were identical but AVCHD is on a DVD?

I burnt the same files to DVD as I did to BD-R, one was recognised as BDMV (BD-R) and the other as AVCHD (DVD)

created with TsMuxeR

turbojet
26th September 2008, 12:06
AVC Me (http://www.badongo.com/file/9101936) will rename BD files to AVCHD (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fb/AVCHD_actual_file_structure.jpg) but you'll still have to make some of the directories.

m1482
26th September 2008, 12:51
AVC Me (http://www.badongo.com/file/9101936) will rename BD files to AVCHD (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fb/AVCHD_actual_file_structure.jpg) but you'll still have to make some of the directories.

Sorry, but I cannot download the file, the link doesn't work...

Guest
26th September 2008, 13:05
Link works fine for me.

nwg
9th October 2008, 22:41
I found normal BDMV file structure works fine on a DVD and a player that does AVCHD playback. However, I found if I went to a double layer size, the increased bitrate would make it stutter. As long as it is on one single layer DVD and lower bitrates. I got excellent results.

All I had to to is burn just the bdmv folder to a DVD. It seems a AVCHD structure does not include the certificate folder.

It is down to processing power and a PS3 should play a double layer ok.

That link doesn't work for me either. I get a bad link error when I try to download it.

odin24
9th October 2008, 23:18
http://www.mediafire.com/?ywt2wysnzb1

Awesome application, I mainly use it to verify subtitle position when I do my own AVCHD discs. My playback device is the PS3.

nwg
9th October 2008, 23:49
http://www.mediafire.com/?ywt2wysnzb1

Awesome application, I mainly use it to verify subtitle position when I do my own AVCHD discs. My playback device is the PS3.

Thanks. I found a description and it said that it renames for FAT32 drives. If that is the case, then I don't need it as I use NTFS. Does it do anything else?

odin24
10th October 2008, 00:04
Thanks. I found a description and it said that it renames for FAT32 drives. If that is the case, then I don't need it as I use NTFS. Does it do anything else?

Not that I'm aware of. Try it, it may work for NTFS as well, I have never tried because my player is the PS3. I do believe this works for stand alone players that can do AVCHD as well.

Basically this program tricks the player into thinking the USB is an actual AVCHD disc, so as long as your stand alone can play media from a USB you should be good.

Like I said, I use this for authoring purposes, not neccesarily for entire movie playback.

kaid
11th October 2008, 13:07
Basically this program tricks the player into thinking the USB is an actual AVCHD disc, so as long as your stand alone can play media from a USB you should be good.


That's BS, there's no "tricks" involved (like with H.264 in VOB containers). FAT32 is in the AVCHD standard, because many of the new HD-cameras (e.g. Sony's) record onto FAT32 Flash (or even HD) like this, so this has to work on the PS3...

kaid
11th October 2008, 13:12
Thanks. I found a description and it said that it renames for FAT32 drives. If that is the case, then I don't need it as I use NTFS. Does it do anything else?

You don't understand: The FAT32 version of AVCHD *is* available only on FAT32 devices! That's like saying "I don't need UDF for DVD authoring, I'm using Joliet on my DVDs"

Doesn't matter what you have the stuff on while you work on it, but in order to play an AVCHD structure on an AVCHD compliant player, you need to put it on a FAT32 volume (Flash, HD)...

kaid
11th October 2008, 13:15
After creating a Blu-Ray structure with TsMuxer (H264 and AC3 files), is there an easy way to change it to the AVCHD format ?
Even that this 2 formats are similar, they are not the same, and my player works better with AVCHD !!!

Thanks for any help...

Here's the relevant part of my menu-generator-script (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=141173) that does this:


cd AVCHD
for file in `find . -name "MovieObject.bdmv"`; do newfile=`echo $file | sed 's/MovieObject.bdmv/MOVIEOBJ.BDM/'` ; mv $file $newfile; done
for file in `find . -name "index.bdmv"`; do newfile=`echo $file | sed 's/index.bdmv/INDEX.BDM/'` ; mv $file $newfile; done
for file in `find . -name "*.mpls"`; do newfile=`echo $file | sed 's/mpls/MPL/'` ; mv $file $newfile; done
for file in `find . -name "*.clpi"`; do newfile=`echo $file | sed 's/clpi/CPI/'` ; mv $file $newfile; done
for file in `find . -name "*.m2ts"`; do newfile=`echo $file | sed 's/m2ts/MTS/'` ; mv $file $newfile; done
cd ..


Needs BASH, on whatever system! ;-)

odin24
11th October 2008, 13:33
That's BS, there's no "tricks" involved (like with H.264 in VOB containers). FAT32 is in the AVCHD standard, because many of the new HD-cameras (e.g. Sony's) record onto FAT32 Flash (or even HD) like this, so this has to work on the PS3...


Raw m2ts on the PS3 (or USB stick) is no problem, AVCHD on a DVD is no problem, however an AVCHD structured file on a USB stick without the renamed files does not work on the PS3... this is where the AVCHD-ME application comes in.

Maybe I was clear enough in my earlier post, I wasn't stating the PS3 isn't compatible with AVCHD, I was saying that without AVCHD-ME you cannot view AVCHD on a USB stick.

Doesn't matter what you have the stuff on while you work on it, but in order to play an AVCHD structure on an AVCHD compliant player, you need to put it on a FAT32 volume (Flash, HD)...

I'm not following you here... what about DVD as media, AVCHD can be played on a DVD, or am I totally not getting what you are trying to say???

kaid
11th October 2008, 14:14
Raw m2ts on the PS3 (or USB stick) is no problem, AVCHD on a DVD is no problem, however an AVCHD structured file on a USB stick without the renamed files does not work on the PS3... this is where the AVCHD-ME application comes in.

Maybe I was clear enough in my earlier post, I wasn't stating the PS3 isn't compatible with AVCHD, I was saying that without AVCHD-ME you cannot view AVCHD on a USB stick.


You still don't understand: The AVCHD structure *is* the 8.3 one! That's the one that HD-cameras record in! The other one with the longer filenames and the /CERTIFICATE folder is a BD structure that just happens to work on DVD as well!


I'm not following you here... what about DVD as media, AVCHD can be played on a DVD, or am I totally not getting what you are trying to say???

Yes, there are also HD-cameras that record onto mini-DVD. But from what I gathered thus far they also all record in the 8.3 FAT32 structure. There's some sources on the web that say there's a different AVCHD structure for optical media and FAT32 and that the optical media/long filename/UDF 2.5 one is used in cameras with DVD, but I doubt that meanwhile. I think the long filename one is essentially a Bluray structure and that AVCHD is always 8.3!

SeeMoreDigital
11th October 2008, 14:44
Raw m2ts on the PS3 (or USB stick) is no problem, AVCHD on a DVD is no problem, however an AVCHD structured file on a USB stick without the renamed files does not work on the PS3... this is where the AVCHD-ME application comes in. Hmmm....

I have a Panasonic TV with an SD card slot, which allows playback of AVCHD files.

I've been trying to generate compatible muxes using AVCHD Me, but sadly they don't work at all. The TV is unable to find and list any files :(


Cheers

odin24
11th October 2008, 14:50
You still don't understand: The AVCHD structure *is* the 8.3 one! That's the one that HD-cameras record in! The other one with the longer filenames and the /CERTIFICATE folder is a BD structure that just happens to work on DVD as well!



Yes, there are also HD-cameras that record onto mini-DVD. But from what I gathered thus far they also all record in the 8.3 FAT32 structure. There's some sources on the web that say there's a different AVCHD structure for optical media and FAT32 and that the optical media/long filename/UDF 2.5 one is used in cameras with DVD, but I doubt that meanwhile. I think the long filename one is essentially a Bluray structure and that AVCHD is always 8.3!

OK then, I think I'm starting to understand, it's just a little confusing at first. What throws me off is when I insert a DVD, with HD content with the BD structure, in my PS3... the icon says "AVCHD", that same material on a BD it says BD-ROM.

I think I'll read up on the topic a little more to gather further understanding. Thanks for the clarification.

kabanero
11th October 2008, 14:54
I see some confusion here.

Using Nero Vision 5 (Nero 8 package) as example:

When you author AVCHD and burn project to DVD+-R/RW, Nero Vision burns disk with UDF 2.5 format and with these file extensions:

.bdmv
.m2ts
.mpls
.clpi

All file names are LOWER case.

--------------

When you author AVCHD and burn project to hard drive folder, Nero Vision creates BDMV folder with these file extensions:

.BDM
.CPI
.MPL
.MTS

All files are UPPER case and follow 8.3 naming convention.

Then you can copy AVCHD (with BDMV) folder to USB flash drive or external HDD and play it on PS3. Drives MUST be formatted with FAT32.

Period.

-----------------

When you use tsMuxer to generate BD disk structure and then burn to:

1. DVD+R/RW -PS3 shows the disk as AVCHD.

2. BD-R/RE - PS3 shows the disk as BDMV.

kaid
11th October 2008, 15:02
Hmmm....

I have a Panasonic TV with an SD card slot, which allows playback of AVCHD files.

I've been trying to generate compatible muxes using AVCHD Me, but sadly they don't work at all. The TV is unable to find and list any files :(


Cheers

Wasn't there something about Panasonic-AVCHD requiring the files to be in a special folder? I gotta go, I'll look it up later!...

nwg
11th October 2008, 16:17
Yes, there are also HD-cameras that record onto mini-DVD. But from what I gathered thus far they also all record in the 8.3 FAT32 structure. There's some sources on the web that say there's a different AVCHD structure for optical media and FAT32 and that the optical media/long filename/UDF 2.5 one is used in cameras with DVD, but I doubt that meanwhile. I think the long filename one is essentially a Bluray structure and that AVCHD is always 8.3!

My Sony S350 BD player uses UDF 2.50 for BD/AVCHD on optical. I have done AVCHD double layer with a 7.29GB m2ts file from a Blu Ray movie.

SeeMoreDigital
11th October 2008, 17:51
Wasn't there something about Panasonic-AVCHD requiring the files to be in a special folder? I gotta go, I'll look it up later!...The following folder layout is from a "working" AVCHD file: -

http://i36.tinypic.com/del360.png


Cheers

rica
11th October 2008, 19:32
Hey guys,

Can anybody make a quick tutorial on how to make an AVCHD?

kaid
12th October 2008, 01:13
I see some confusion here.

Using Nero Vision 5 (Nero 8 package) as example:

When you author AVCHD and burn project to DVD+-R/RW, Nero Vision burns disk with UDF 2.5 format and with these file extensions:

.bdmv
.m2ts
.mpls
.clpi

All file names are LOWER case.

--------------

When you author AVCHD and burn project to hard drive folder, Nero Vision creates BDMV folder with these file extensions:

.BDM
.CPI
.MPL
.MTS

All files are UPPER case and follow 8.3 naming convention.

Then you can copy AVCHD (with BDMV) folder to USB flash drive or external HDD and play it on PS3. Drives MUST be formatted with FAT32.

Period.

-----------------

When you use tsMuxer to generate BD disk structure and then burn to:

1. DVD+R/RW -PS3 shows the disk as AVCHD.

2. BD-R/RE - PS3 shows the disk as BDMV.

All of this *could* be just fault tolerance. I know f.ex. for a fact that there is some fault tolerance going on in the PS3 already, since you do NOT need to change the filename in the .MPL/.mpls files to match the stream filename (.MTS/.m2ts). Also, the support of DTS, which is not in the AVCHD standard seems suspicious... I guess the PS3 just checks if it's a DVD with a BDMV folder in the root and then writes "AVCHD", but when you launch it it is treated as if it were a Bluray. I've seen this before that the XMB "lies" about stuff, i've seen Video where the XMB says its fine - until you play it, when the PS3 says it's b0rked! The same thing also happened the other way around with some .ts files recorded from TV (and renamed to .MTS or .m2ts!): The XMB said it's b0rked, but when running it it plays fine..

So, until I see a HD-camera actually recording in the long filename convention, I'll stand by my opinion that AVCHD is *always* in the 8.3 naming convention!

Yeah, and Nero could just be "exploiting" this fault tolerance, I could well imagine that other AVCHD players have a similar tolerance built in....

kaid
12th October 2008, 01:18
The following folder layout is from a "working" AVCHD file: -

http://i36.tinypic.com/del360.png


Cheers

Yeah, PRIVATE, that was it! I found meanwhile where I read that, on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD):

At the file system level, the structure of AVCHD is derived from the Blu-ray Disc specification, but is not identical to it. In particular, known Canon and Panasonic implementations use old-fashioned "8.3" file naming convention, while Blu-ray discs utilize long filenames. Another difference is location of the BDMV folder, which contains media files. On a DVD-based camcorder the BDMV folder is placed at the root level, just like on a Blu-ray disc. On the HDD-based Canon HG10 camcorder the BDMV folder is located in the AVCHD folder, which is placed at the root level.[6] Solid-state Panasonic and Canon camcorders nest the AVCHD folder inside the PRIVATE folder.[7] Following a standard agreed upon by many still camera manufacturers, solid-state camcorders have a root-level DCIM folder for still images.[8]

kabanero
12th October 2008, 02:21
So, until I see a HD-camera actually recording in the long filename convention, I'll stand by my opinion that AVCHD is *always* in the 8.3 naming convention!

kaid,

you can stand by your opinion if it works for you.

I didn't say anything about long file names. My post was about file extensions and media format.

I am going to repeat one more time.

Using Nero Vision 5 (Nero 8 package) as example:

When you author AVCHD and burn project to DVD+-R/RW, Nero Vision burns disk with UDF 2.5 format and with these file extensions:

.bdmv
.m2ts
.mpls
.clpi

All file names are LOWER case.

--------------

When you author AVCHD and burn project to hard drive folder, Nero Vision creates BDMV folder with these file extensions:

.BDM
.CPI
.MPL
.MTS

All files are UPPER case and follow 8.3 naming convention.

Then you can copy AVCHD (with BDMV) folder to USB flash drive or external HDD and play it on PS3. Drives MUST be formatted with FAT32.

kaid
12th October 2008, 12:20
kaid,

you can stand by your opinion if it works for you.

I didn't say anything about long file names.


And what exactly is 'MovieObject.bdmv' for you?


My post was about file extensions and media format.

I am going to repeat one more time.


Oh, one more time only, thanks for that! Dude, do you even read what I'm saying? I heard you the first time...

btw, Wikipedia seems to say the same thing:
At the file system level, the structure of AVCHD is derived from the Blu-ray Disc specification, but is not identical to it. In particular, known Canon and Panasonic implementations use old-fashioned "8.3" file naming convention, while Blu-ray discs utilize long filenames.

Therion
13th October 2008, 13:25
Is there a way to convert the 'UDF2.5'-AVCHD to the 'FAT32'-AVCHD? Without reencoding that is.

I've tried renaming the long filenames to 8.3 names, and changed the directory-structure accordinly (added \PRIVATE\AVCHD\ folders), but that didn't work.

I have a working 'FAT32'-AVCHD video on a SDHC-card, so I thought I'd just copy the STREAM,PLAYLIST and CLIPINF directories from the 'UDF2.5'-AVCHD (+ renaming to 8.3) into this structure, but that didn't work either.

Other ideas?

nwg
13th October 2008, 15:20
UDF is for discs. So all you should need to do it copy the SD card onto the HDD and then copy it onto a disc using UDF2.50. I use Imgburn to make the discs as that automatically changes to UDF2.50.

Therion
13th October 2008, 15:39
UDF is for discs. So all you should need to do it copy the SD card onto the HDD and then copy it onto a disc using UDF2.50. I use Imgburn to make the discs as that automatically changes to UDF2.50.

That's not the problem, I want the opposite: from UDF2.50 to SDHC

kaid
13th October 2008, 16:25
Is there a way to convert the 'UDF2.5'-AVCHD to the 'FAT32'-AVCHD? Without reencoding that is.

I've tried renaming the long filenames to 8.3 names, and changed the directory-structure accordinly (added \PRIVATE\AVCHD\ folders), but that didn't work.


It must work. Are you sure the files are <4GB? 4GB+ no worky on FAT32!
.clpi -> .CPI
.mpls -> .MPL
.m2ts -> .MTS
MovieObject.bdmv -> MOVIEOBJ.BDM
Index.bdmv -> INDEX.BDM

You sure you got all of them? Also the ones in /BACKUP?

Also keep in mind that the BDMV (and CERTIFICATE, but I don't think you really need that!) *have* to reside in a directory called AVCHD in the root of the FAT32 volume...


I have a working 'FAT32'-AVCHD video on a SDHC-card, so I thought I'd just copy the STREAM,PLAYLIST and CLIPINF directories from the 'UDF2.5'-AVCHD (+ renaming to 8.3) into this structure, but that didn't work either.


That for sure won't work, since all the info about the streams and the order they're played in is in the .CPI/.MPL files...

Therion
13th October 2008, 17:03
Thanks for the reply, but I still can't get it to work. :(

It must work. Are you sure the files are <4GB? 4GB+ no worky on FAT32!
Yup, I'm testing with a 500Mb video.

.clpi -> .CPI
.mpls -> .MPL
.m2ts -> .MTS
MovieObject.bdmv -> MOVIEOBJ.BDM
Index.bdmv -> INDEX.BDM

You sure you got all of them? Also the ones in /BACKUP?

Also keep in mind that the BDMV (and CERTIFICATE, but I don't think you really need that!) *have* to reside in a directory called AVCHD in the root of the FAT32 volume...
I think this is wrong, but I tested it anway, but it doesn't work.

The samples I have that DO work, al have a /PRIVATE/ folder in the root, then the /AVCHD/-folder etc. Btw, the working samples all have an empty /BACKUP folder, so I don't think it's that important.


That for sure won't work, since all the info about the streams and the order they're played in is in the .CPI/.MPL files...
Guess in what directories those files are... :rolleyes:

edit:
p.s. maybe you should know that I have a Panasonic DMP-BD30 player on which I'm trying to get this to work (and not a PS3)

vpapanik
14th October 2008, 12:49
This may help : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1196334#post1196334

Therion
14th October 2008, 17:02
This may help : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1196334#post1196334

I don't see how this would help, your tool only accepts MKV-files, not M2TS.