Main movie that have 2 titles

[kingoffish]

I have a main movie that have 2 title. The whole dvd file size is 4.35 GB. PGC 1 is 1 hrs 43 mins 01 s. PGC 2 is the extended version 1 hrs 44 mins 14 s. I want to add subtitle to the PGC 2. So I demux & remux PGC 2. But I want to keep the menus plus extra & therefore use VobBlanker. After using vobblanker to replace PGC 2, the whole dvd file size increase more than 6GB. So advise is needed on how to keep everything untouched except replacing PGC 2 with added subtitle. Plus i hope the whole file size can remain within DVD5 size. Thanks

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/203/dvdshrink1ff6.jpg

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8498/dvdshrink2rn6.jpg

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/9718/dvddecrypterjc1.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7018/voblankerup1.jpg

[Alex_ander]

You are replacing PGC2, but PGC1 shares most of its cells.
Possibly those cells are already marked by VOBBlanker as successively used (by PGC1) and in this case it creates new cell IDs for the reused cells, then replaces them in PGC2 (keeping the ones shared by PGC1).
From manual:
Successive uses of a shared cell
In this case VobBlanker will not replace the cell. (Except if the first PGC including this cell is also marked to be replaced)

Looks like in case PGC1 contained all the cells, you could replace the cells in both by replacing that PGC (then disable subtitles in the shorter one). I don't know how to solve this in VOBBlanker. In DVDRemake it is possible to create duplicate PGCs (after removing old ones) with shared cells, blank/delete unshared cells in one of them and then copy back old navigation commands with some adjustment of VTS title registering.

[kingoffish]

Thanks Alex_ander, but I not very familiar with using Dvdremake. Can you explained in details how to do it.

[Alex_ander]

I'll try to explain, assuming PGC2 has more cells than PGC1 and all cells of PGC1 are also used by PGC2.
Main editing steps (what and why):
1.Removing video blocks from both PGCs to allow for importing new content into VTS with different stream attributes (subtitle stream).
2.Importing the remuxed material as additional PGC3 and duplicating it as PGC4. Assigning those PGCs to VTS titles 1 and 2 and setting them as entry PGCs of those titles.
3.Finding and deleting cell(s) in PGC3, not used by original PGC1 for getting its original cell structure.
4.Pasting original pre-, post-, cell- (if any, then also assigning those commands to cells) command lists to PGC3,4.
5.Removing dummy PGCs 1,2. New PGCs get original numbers (this brings closer to original navigation).
6.Registering chapters of new PGCs in VTS titles.
7.Restoration of chapter selection commands.
8.Disabling subtitles in PGC1.
9.Optional (needed in case new PGC was prepared in Muxman): editing CLUT for the PGC with subtitles.
10.Testing in 'test DVD' mode and exporting.

In more detail (how).
Step 1. Import original DVD. Expand DVD tree and highlight that PGC1 in VTS1. Find 'Programs' tab on the right, right-click on it -> Select all -> press delete key. Do the same for PGC2. Save this main project (to be able to postpone it if needed), don't close.
Step 2. Import the DVD folder of remuxed PGC2. Expand its VTS in DVD tree, right-click on movie PGC and 'Copy PGC'. Go to main project, right-click on 'Program Chains' in VTS1 and select 'Add Copied PGC(s)'. Right-click on new PGC3 and use 'Duplicate'. PGC4 will appear (keeping original content size). Right-click on PGC3, go to Assign to title,' select Title 1 and tick 'Set PGC as entry for this title' -> press OK. The same way assign PGC4 to Title 2.
Step 3. Open original DVD in separate project for reference. Make sure PGC4 in main project and PGC2 in original DVD have the same cell/program structure (as seen in Programs tab). By block content in preview window find out, which cells are not used in original PGC1, then remove those cells in new PGC3 with delete key. 'Programs tab' should look the same after editing (same programs, same cells) as in original PGC1.
Step 4. Clear pre- and post- command lists of PGC3,4 by select all -> delete. Copy and paste original data from PGC1 to PGC3 and from PGC2 to PGC4 (check if there were also cell commands, that's unlikely here).
Step 5. Remove PGC1,2 by highlighting in DVD tree and using delete key.
Step 6. Highlight 'Titles' in VTS1, on the right edit tab will open. Expand Title 1 to chapters, right-click on each chapter beginning from first (then for each next one correct Program number will be suggested making things faster - you'll use enter key with your other hand) and select (or agree with suggested) program number. Look into original DVD's tab for reference.
Step 7.You'll still see some items in DVD tree highlighted in red, that's because chapter numbers are reset to 0 in chapter selection commands (menu button commands in case chapters are addressed directly, or commands in some list, you can easily find them by floating tip on 'red' item). Edit those numbers using original DVD project for reference.
Step 8. If you don't want subs shown in PGC1, highlight it and open 'SubPicture Tracks' tab. Right-click on sub-stream line and apply 'disable'. This will not modify it for the other PGC.
Step 9. To ensure correct subtitle colors it is important to either use the CLUT (which is PGC property, will be imported with it) applied at subtitle creating or to edit it manually. E.g. Muxman (free version), doesn't keep original colors and uses its default CLUT. To identify color numbers which should be edited you can first make all colors different, then find out (by playing test DVD) which color numbers are used and finally edit those colors in DVDRemake.
Step 10.To test the project, use 'Export test DVD' (red disc button or file menu item). Test DVD (very fast output) has 5 seconds (default length) for each chapter. After fine adjustment you can output the edited DVD with green button.

[kingoffish]

Thanks for the guides. But regarding Step 1. Find 'Programs' tab on the right, right-click on it -> Select all -> press delete key. There are 3 choice, 1) delete block 2) delete program 3) delete block & program, which one should I choose?

[Alex_ander]

If you want to do it with mouse (instead of delete key) and all blocks are selected, both 1) or 3) should work. Those options are mainly for selective deleting like removing program attribute from a selected block, etc.

[kingoffish]

I have another question regarding step 2. Import the DVD folder of remuxed PGC1. Does it mean I need to demux & remux PGC1 or PGC2 (with added subtitle)? And whether I need to add subtitle to PGC2 before or after I do all the steps using dvdremake? Thanks

[Alex_ander]

I have another question regarding step 2. Import the DVD folder of remuxed PGC1.
My mistake, meant PGC2 of course (the one which uses all cells, with added subtitles) and you already have it remuxed, probably in DVD folder form. That's all you need for replacement.

[kingoffish]

Regarding Step 3,
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6789/pgc4pgc2av2.jpg
Can you check whether PGC4 in main project and PGC2 in original DVD have the same cell/program structure?

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2038/pgc3pgc1ti1.jpg
Plus which cells in new PGC3 to be removed? I abit confusing because it my first try in using this program. I hope you can be patience with me for slow learning. Thanks

Regarding Step 4,
-Clear pre- and post- command lists of PGC3,4 by select all -> delete. When I try to clear pre- and post- command lists in PGC3,4, it seem to delete everything in cell command. Is it normal?

-Copy and paste original data from PGC1 to PGC3 and from PGC2 to PGC4. Does it refer to that I have to right-click on movie PGC and 'Copy PGC1 & PGC2' from original DVD . Go to main project, right-click on 'Program Chains' in VTS1 and select 'Add Copied PGC(s)' to PGC3 & PGC4 respectively? Thanks

[Alex_ander]

Those PGCs are a bit different, but it is easy to correct. The remuxed PGC4 has as many cells, but it has an extra program - for cell 10 (by default, all remuxed cells get program attributes), while in the original PGC2 cell 10 is the second cell in program 9. You can remove program attribute from cell 10 by right-click -> 'delete program' and the cell will go to program 9 (like in original PGC). Do the same in PGC3.
As for deleting cells. In the very beginning I assumed that original PGC1 is shorter for the reason it doesn't use some cells from PGC2 and all its cells are the same as in PGC2. In this case the size of 'Program Chains' content would be the same as that of PGC2 but it's originally bigger, while both PGC1,2 have the same cell structure. This means that original PGC1 might also contain some cells different from cells in PGC2. This needs comparison of original PGC1,2 by cell content and cell length. If you identify those different cells, you will be able to replace them in PGC3 using 'replace block' right-click command (then select the right block in original disc from the dialog which suggests blocks from all imported projects) instead of deleting. Of course, this is more complicated editing.

So the most actual thing now is to identify which cells are the same in PGC1,2 and which are different (at least, by length). Use preview window and sequential block views (by highligting Program Chains in DVD tree - all blocks are shown; by opening 'blocks' tab for PGC - its blocks are shown with cell# and program# which use that block, etc.).

About pre- post- commands. As you intend to replace the commands in remuxed material with commands copied by list from original PGCs, it is normal to previously delete all commands in PGC3,4. To copy original commands you don't copy PGCs, only their command data - by going to original pre-(-post) command list, 'Select All' (or Ctrl+A on keyboard) -> 'Copy' -> (in new, cleared list) 'Add Copied'.

[kingoffish]

Thanks Alex_ander for your help. I manage to edit but not sure correct or not. Below are the result:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8738/pcg1editedwm1.jpg
PGC1

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/872/editedgr9.jpg
PGC2

But by doing so, PGC1 & PGC2 become the same extended version. Plus 4.35GB reduce to 3.5GB. Is this correct?

[Alex_ander]

This is different from original DVD and in its current state will give the same playback for both PGCs. You can export test DVD to find out if it's OK with your new subtitles (edit CLUT colors if needed) and chapter selection (it may work since nothing is highlighted in red), then go on.
If you want to restore PGC1 to its original state, some further exploration is needed. The difference in file size can come from the following reason. Some cells are different in original PGC1,2 (most likely). So far we supposed that all cells 'incomplete' PGC1 has, also belong to the 'complete' PGC2, and intended to remove 'extra' cells from PGC1 but it appeared to have the same cell structure -> probably PGC1 uses some different cells. If you highlight Program Chains in original DVD tree and look at block thumbnails of the VTS (somewhere on the right), there might be more than 13 (number of cells in both PGCs) blocks. You can identify which blocks are used by PGC1 only (and for which cells) and replace them using replace block command on cells, the file size will increase at this.
I don't know how and in which titles different audio streams and angles are used on this disc (there are menus marked as 'audio' and 'angle'), try to explore it in original DVD project for PGC1,2 (Audio Tracks tab) - is there more than one track displayed? What does menu (or DVD cover) say about these 2 versions?

[kingoffish]

Audio menu has a selection audio of dolby Surround 5.1ch & commentary audio of the version 1.

Angle menus is same as the root menu.

Version 1 is without extra scene & version 2 have an extra scene that take up 1min 13s 15ms. Version 2 have the extra scene at the beginning of Pg 12 cell 13, while after 1min 13s 15ms, the rest is the same as version 1. Version 1 is without the extra scene of Pg 12 cell 13.

The Question is how to identify which blocks are used by PGC1 only (and for which cells) and replace them using replace block command on cells? Thanks

[blutach]

The Question is how to identify which blocks are used by PGC1 only (and for which cells) and replace them using replace block command on cells? ThanksOpen the project in VobBlanker or PgcEdit and see which cells are not re-used in PGC 2.

Regards

[Alex_ander]

OK, then there are no angles; two audio tracks (did you mux both back?), Track 0 is used in PGC2 by a pre-command directly and in PGC1 on some condition (unless commentary selected from menu) using a # written to register15.

How many blocks will be shown as pictures if you highlight Program Chains in DVD tree?
Probably there is an extra block for cell 13 of PGC1 (almost same content, but shorter than the one used in PGC2 for cell 13 - you can select it and scroll in preview window). This could explain difference of original PGCs1/2 in file size, but I still wonder why total size of 4300MB is shown in original DVD, maybe there are more unshared cells.

[kingoffish]

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/5281/pgc1yz3.jpg
PGC1 information using pgcedit

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8356/pgc2kw5.jpg
PGC2 information using pgcedit

Above is the information of PGC1 & PGC2, do help me analyse. For basic, I am ok. But I am learning. Thanks

Note: I mux back two audio tracks on PGC2.
For original data: There are 13 block in both PGC1 & PGC2. The last block is the only difference whereby PGC1 is 200.40mb with 6mins 32s and PGC2 is 234.55mb with 7mins 45s 15ms.

[Alex_ander]

This explains the difference in file size (4300/3400): there are 4 cells (##10-13) independently added at authoring. They have different VOB IDs and entry sectors for PGC1/2. Only cell 13 is different by content (test it to be sure there's no difference in audio etc. for the other 3 cells) and unlikely there' s a reason to also replace the other 3 cells since there's one more problem to solve: how to restore seamless attributes for replaced cells.
Before replacing cell 13 disable subtitle track in new PGC1 from right click on the line in subtitle tracks tab (with PGC1 selected in the tree). Then right click on cell 13 -> replace block -> find the movie for original project (the items are shown in replacement tab in order of importing into projects) and select the block thumbnail for replacement. You may still get a warning of different streams in old/new material, but the cell should be replaced. Check PGC2 for keeping the subtitle stream in its place. Try to set seamless attribute for just replaced cell (right-click -> edit block attributes -> check 'seamless playback'), most likely you will not see it restored (unsuitable entry sectors) but there's a chance to restore it after exporting the project (on rewriting blocks).

[kingoffish]

Regarding "Try to set seamless attribute for just replaced cell (right-click -> edit block attributes -> check 'seamless playback')", do I need to set it for PGC1 or PGC2 or both? After exporting the project, do I still need to do editing? Thanks

[Alex_ander]

Only for the replaced cell in PGC1. All cells in PGC2 are seamless due to fresh authoring (muxing) and they remain untouched. After exporting and testing (also for subtitle colors) it may be useful to look at that seamless attribute and to try setting it once again (unless it is shown seamless now), maybe it will work (shown 'yes' in programs tab if set).

[kingoffish]

Thanks you very much, Alex_ander. Finally, it worked. I replace the last block of PGC1. Version 1 & 2 are retained. It was a valuable lesson I learn here. It would help if I come across such Dvd format again.

And thanks to blutach for reminding me to use PgcEdit to copy out the PGC1 & PGC2 info to let Alex_ander analysed for me.