Multipage menues layout preferences

[Sir Didymus]

dear all,

In the design of the some new features to add to BatchMux.exe (it is the middleware application used to perform the MuxMan authoring with FAVC and AVStoDVD) I have some doubts about the proper decisions to take for introducing the support to the multipage menues. See the following picture to clarify (in red) the parts where I need to know your preferences, if you have any.

[img=http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1229/image2lo0.th.png] (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image2lo0.png)

What do you think about?

P.S. Please do not expect a very quick implementation on the matter, we are talking about something that will be ready not before one month or two from now...

Cheers,
SD

[MrC]

IMO

- PlayAll button: in all pages
- PrevPage button: in all pages but the first
- NextPage button: in all pages but the last

What about adding GoToLastPage and GoToFirstPage buttons too?

;)

Bye

[Sir Didymus]

Hmmm. GoToLast and GoToFirst...
It's a possibility...

I did not consider it up to now for the sake of the simplicity: less buttons you have for moving, more buttons you have for the titles...

However at the current time I would like to collect all opinions on the matter before writing a single line of code...

So, thanks for your contribution...

:-)

Cheers,
SD

Edit: ah... I am actually assuming that for the multipage menu all of the pages should be of the same type: in case the menu is static (no audio and a plain bmp as background) then all pages should be of this type; in case it is dynamic (bmp+audio or m2v background) then all pages should by dynamic... do you agree?

[MrC]

ah... I am actually assuming that for the multipage menu all of the pages should be of the same type: in case the menu is static (no audio and a plain bmp as background) then all pages should be of this type; in case it is dynamic (bmp+audio or m2v background) then all pages should by dynamic... do you agree?

Yes, absolutely.

Will every page be customizable? I mean, i.e., picture xxx.bmp for page 1 background, picture yyy.bmp for page 2 background, etc.

;)

Bye

[Sir Didymus]

Yes!

Each page may have different assets (audio & video). Also the position, the shape and the style of the buttons may eventually change among the different pages.

The number of pages will be tunable too.

What will be hardcoded is the navigation, meaning (for instance) that the buttons to go from one page to the previous or to the next should exist. Otherwise an error will be issued and the BatchMux session will end... :-(

For this reason it is important to take now some good decisions on the overall layout of the multipage menues...
In the future it will be very complex to change what we will implement as a consequence of such decisions...

Edit 24-07-2008. Do you think it could be also useful/needed to have menues for selecting audio and or subtitles for each title in the compilation?

[gizzin]

I find what I saw looks good, keeping a play all button on ever page would be good. Or even maybe going to the extent of maybe on different page having the the play all button, start the playing from the first video on that page. As far as the next page stuff goes thats good, because if you want to go from the first to last it gives you that option. Because maybe you want to play one of the last episodes or whatever it may be. Having different audio, video per page isn't something I would go out of my way to do but having it as a option never hurts. Some people might like having different buttons etc per page, but for me I think it would look ugly and wouldn't go with the flow per say. Thanks for the effort also there didymus.

[Sir Didymus]

- PlayAll button: in all pages
- PrevPage button: in all pages but the first
- NextPage button: in all pages but the last

What about adding GoToLastPage and GoToFirstPage buttons too?


At the current time the implementation proceeds with assuming the following design:

1. PlayAll button: in all pages
2. PrevPage button: in all pages but the first
3. NextPage button: in all pages but the last

Afraid, for the moment no GoToLastPage and GoToFirstPage buttons...


...keeping a play all button on ever page would be good. Or even maybe going to the extent of maybe on different page having the the play all button, start the playing from the first video on that page...

Your concept is that the "play all" button should have a "local" span, right ?

Let's say, for instance, I have a compilation of 12 titles, with 4 menu pages.
In the page 2 of the menu I have the titles 4, 5 and 6 displayed. When I push the play all button in this page the navigation should start playing from the title 4 and should stop to the title 6, bringing the control back to the menu page...

I am proceeding with the implementation following this concept, since I see no good reasons for having a "play all" button bringing the navigation to some titles that you don't see in the given menu page...

The doubt is what to do after the title 6 is played. My preference is to go back to the menu, but I see there is also some reasons to support the possibility of continuing the playback automatically with title 7, 8, ...

What do you think about ?

[ricardo.santos]

The doubt is what to do after the title 6 is played. My preference is to go back to the menu, but I see there is also some reasons to support the possibility of continuing the playback automatically with title 7, 8, ...

What do you think about ?

My opinion is that it should go back to menu, i dont find this function really interesting, if i have a dvd with 4 lets say tv recorded episodes, its very unlikely that i watch them all in one go, but i see the usefulness of it on shorter videos(music video clips), play one after the other.

Would it be to much trouble to let the user decide what to do? Return to menu or play each clip after another?

[Sir Didymus]

My opinion is that it should go back to menu...

...Would it be to much trouble to let the user decide what to do? Return to menu or play each clip after another?

Hi Ricardo! Thanks for your contribution! The end users opinion is very valuable for me at this stage of the development...
Going back to the menu is also my personal preferece...

Well, it is not an "huge effort", within BatchMux, to let the user decide what to do, by means of a different "navigation switch" such ar the "-hcn1" or "-hcn2" CLI parameters. The problem is that for the two different choices the DVD navigation, which is currently harcoded, changes. So additional switches should be designed and implemented...

Please remind that BatchMux is a middleware sw, and the "users" of BatchMux are the application developers (such as MrC) interested in using these features in their applications.

The point is to keep (...hem... urgently...) some decisions on the matter, and not to change them while the development is running...

:-)

Cheers

[MrC]

I see no problems in adding a user preference (go back to menu or go ahead with next title) in AVStoDVD DVD Menu Settings. So, if this feat is not very "time hungry", I would say, SD, put it in BatchMux. :)

A question. I have made a multi track DVD with BatchMux. If I press Play All and then, after few seconds of track 1 playback, I skip to next track, what should happen at the end of track 2? Go back to menu or play track 3?

;)

Bye

[Sir Didymus]

I see no problems in adding a user preference (go back to menu or go ahead with next title) in AVStoDVD DVD Menu Settings. So, if this feat is not very "time hungry", I would say, SD, put it in BatchMux. :)

OK. It is in the todo list, but for the moment (i.e. next release of BatchMux), lets keep it as "go back to the menu": I feel this behaviour as more "natural"...


...A question. I have made a multi track DVD with BatchMux. If I press Play All and then, after few seconds of track 1 playback, I skip to next track, what should happen at the end of track 2? Go back to menu or play track 3?

;)

Bye

:(

OK. Very bad behaviour...

I need to change the navigation also for the single page menus... I am surprised nobody reported this before: the single page menus are there (in FAVC) since some time now...

Well, as soon as I have something to show I will upload in this thread the "reference implementation" for the static and motion menus, both for the single page and for the multipage menus...

This should provide a practical example for discussing the menus behaviour within BatchMux...

Stay tuned...

[gizzin]

Ya, like you said "local" but it should still continue to the end. So if you started at 4 it went to 12.

[Sir Didymus]

...I have made a multi track DVD with BatchMux. If I press Play All and then, after few seconds of track 1 playback, I skip to next track, what should happen at the end of track 2? Go back to menu or play track 3?


Well, the fix to the "problem" of the user interaction, for the menues produced with BatchMux, has been implemented...

1. The Prev and Next buttons on the remote control should be now functional...
2. The DVD and Title Menu buttons should also be Ok...
3. Following the hints of blutach, now also the "resume" function, together with other fundamental improvements have been introduced in the DVD navigation...

I have prepared some "reference DVD", (few hundreds of KB each) showing what will be obtained starting with release 1.2 of BatchMux.exe for the single page menus. I will prepare ASAP similar "design use cases" for the multipage menus.

sample DVD with 3 titles, static
http://www.mediafire.com/?ofgn9tew13o

sample DVD with 3 titles, static no "PlayAll" button
http://www.mediafire.com/?99dx00onvc4

sample DVD with 9 titles, static
http://www.mediafire.com/?ykemoy3izdw

sample DVD with 9 titles, static no "PlayAll" button
http://www.mediafire.com/?zt0nbyyf2ob

sample DVD with 9 titles, motion
http://www.mediafire.com/?ymfjet21xjy

sample DVD with 9 titles, motion no "PlayAll" button
http://www.mediafire.com/?l9juzsxmsm1


Cheers,
SD

Edit: 12-08-2008. I asked for the assistance of blutach (he is IMO one of the topmost experts we have here at doom9 on the DVD navigation). The suggestions I received via PM are very relevant and will lead to significant improvements to the navigation for the above use cases. I will refresh the links as soon as the work progresses... Hey blutach, thanks a lot for the precious help!

Edit 16-08-2008. Links changed including hints & contributions from blutach...

Edit 25-08-2008. Links changed; minor modifications to the navigation...

[Sir Didymus]

Following links contain the reference layout of DVDs with multipage menues.

sample of static menu with 3 pages and 9 titles:
http://www.mediafire.com/?2jwke2cne7v

sample of static menu with 3 pages, 9 titles, without "PlayAll" buttons:
http://www.mediafire.com/?tzzs1bz2zjz

sample of motion menu with 3 pages and 9 titles:
http://www.mediafire.com/?iadjmgtim4o

sample of motion menu with 3 pages, 9 titles, without "PlayAll" buttons:
http://www.mediafire.com/?iib3y0simme


Please get a look at the overall layout and navigation...


Some of the authoring features for the multipage menues, supported by BatchMux.exe:
- the menu pages can be different each other (i.e. each one can be based on static or motion background, with or without a "PlayAll" button, it can have a different number and layout of buttons leading to titles, etc.);
- possibility of building "non circular" or "circular" menues (i.e. the first page can have a button to go back from the first page to the last - and the last page can have a button to go from the last page forward to the first);
- support for the "auto activation" property in all buttons (useful for the buttons linking the different pages of the menu);
- support for additional navigation buttons (for instance "go to first page" or "go to last page" buttons);
- in each page the "Play All" button - if present - can be built in order to start from a generic title (not always from the first in the DVD);
- for the moment the end of the "Play All" function - if present - is more rigid: one title after the other is played back, until the last title of the whole DVD is reached;
- while watching at a given title, moving of one title forward or backward with the "Prev" and "Next" buttons of the remote is supported;
- while watching at a given title, pushing the "DVD menu" or the "Title Menu" buttons will bring to the main menu of the DVD;
- the "Resume" function is supported: if the playback of a given title is interrupted by the keypress of the "DVD menu" or the "Title Menu" buttons in the remote, it is possible to resume the movie by pushing the button corresponding to the interrupted title from the main menu;

Examples of usage and further details are present in the main discussion thread of BatchMux here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=116297

Cheers,
SD

[MrC]

Great Job, SD.

Lookin' forward to test it and implement it in AVStoDVD

;)

Bye