Adding subtitles to DVD with menus+extras

[Weirdo]

I want to add an extra subtitle stream to a complete dvd (with menus etc.), I've done it in the past but now there's a problem.
I demux the dvd, reauthor just the main movie, with all its streams plus the extra .sup subtitle (colors are wrong in this reauthored movie dvd but that is fixable with dvdsubedit).
Enter vobblanker. I select the original dvd's main movie VTS and in the lower PGC window, I select the movie PGC, to be replaced by the previously authored, movie-only dvd.
The problem with this one, is that in the lower PGC window I get 4 almost identical main-movie entries (screenshot), and if I replace the first one, or even all of them, the resulting dvd, does not include the extra subtitle, or it is shown in the available subs choices, but is not selectable.
Also, I'm not quite sure what to select in the vobblanker 'replacing' options.
If anyone knows how to do this it'd be great... Thanks.

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1671/vobblankeryr7.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vobblankeryr7.jpg)

[blutach]

TTNs 2-4 (titles 3-5) appear to be copies of TTN 1 (title 2). Replace TTN 1 and adjust the subs in PgcEdit to account for your extra stream. Also adjust the Domain attributes (Ctrl-A).

The way I'd do it though is this (assuming the cells of TTNs 2-4 are the same as TTN 1):

1. Reauthor as you have till your main title is as you want it.
2. In PgcEdit, clone the title 3 times, accepting the offer to create new titles. Save the project.
3. Open the original project in PgcEdit and File --> Replace VTST titles. Follow the screens to import from step 2 above. Check the subtitle streams are the same as in step 2 and save. Test in a software player.

Regards

[Weirdo]

Thanks blutach, it's appreciated. Your tip to use PgcEdit/"Replace VTST titles" instead of Vobblanker worked, the "new" dvd plays fine.
I have to sort out the colours now, but this will be easier. I get weird results with Dvdsubedit, on some hardware/software players, they are ok, on some others they are a bit messy, too transparent or showing in a weird 'low-quality' striped fashion.
Thanks again.

[blutach]

Use PgcEdit's Copy/Paste CLUT feature. Open 2 instances of PgcEdit - the first with the original where the CLUT is OK. Open the PGC and in the CLUT area, click Copy All. Now open the reauthored DVD in the 2nd instance of PgcEdit. Open the corresponding PGC and Paste All. Do for all 4 PGCs (the colours should be identical). Save.

Regards

[Alex_ander]

While putting back the original CLUT is a necessary step, it doesn't garantee correct colors for your new subtitle. If you see them differ, you'll be able to edit CLUT colors it uses (unless the same color ## are used in reverse pattern/emphasis order by older subtitle streams; then you'd need DVDSubEdit to remap color ## for the new subtitle).

[Weirdo]

After fiddling with the colours, I get this effect:

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1262/subtitleproblemir5.th.png (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=subtitleproblemir5.png)

This happens in most subtitles, but not all. This is the existing english stream which also got affected by the changes, not the extra one I added. (same problem there too)
The next is from the same film, same stream, and it's ok:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6926/subtitleproblemokce8.th.png (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=subtitleproblemokce8.png)

Two strange things: 1. Some subtitles show ok, and some don't and 2. this effect is visible on the pc only, hardware player plays all subs fine.

[Weirdo]

While putting back the original CLUT is a necessary step, it doesn't garantee correct colors for your new subtitle. If you see them differ, you'll be able to edit CLUT colors it uses (unless the same color ## are used in reverse pattern/emphasis order by older subtitle streams; then you'd need DVDSubEdit to remap color ## for the new subtitle).
I can't say I understood exactly what you said (:confused:) but you're right of course about CLUT copy/paste not being enough. On some DVD's with added subs the colours are not right for all streams.
I then resort the DVDSubEdit for some fairly random messing around to fix the colours.
Still ffdshow's libmpeg2 dvd decoding has problems displaying correctly DVD subs altered with DVDSubEdit (not visible at all, or like the screenshot on my previous post).
No such problems exhibited with hardware player or PowerDVD for example.

[r0lZ]

The problem you have experienced with DVDSubEdit is strange. I have had a similar problem in the past, and have helped Jean to fix it. Obviously, it is not yet completely fixed. Are you sure you use the latest version?

Anyway, this problem can happen only if you modify the subpic bitmap, for example by moving it around, or by cropping its background, as it needs to be re-encoded. Modifying the CLUT indexes ONLY should never produce those artifacts, as the bitmap is not modified.

Method:
Load the VOBs, and select the stream you want to modify in the subpic selection dropdown menu.
Use the Zoom Window and click on the little b, p, e1 and e2 buttons near the color buttons to identify what color you have to change and how.
Click on each color button and select the right color in the color picker. (Do not shift-click to modify the CLUT itself.)
Apply to all (Control-A) and save.

You can also modify the colors of the CLUT itself with PgcEdit. PgcEdit doesn't touch the VOB files at all, but if you have several subpic streams using different color indexes, it might be impossible to obtain the right result. For example if the foreground color used by one stream is the same as the outline color of another stream, you cannot assign white and black to the same color in the CLUT at the same time! If it's the case, you have to use DVDSubEdit as explained above (or rebuild your new subpic stream using the right CLUT and remux it.)

[Weirdo]

Thanks for the info, if by moving around the bitmap you mean to alter the vertical/horizontal sub position then yes, I usually do that too with the reauthored dvd's. (DVDSubEdit v.1.41)

[r0lZ]

Moving the subpic up or down requires sometimes to re-encode the bitmap. When the bitmap has a small transparent background around the visible portion of the subpic, it can freely be moved up or down as long as the background stays completely in the image. Unfortunately, on most commercial DVDs, the subpic background covers the whole image, and if you move it, it will be positioned partially outside of the screen.

If you move such a big subpic DOWN, it is theoretically not needed to re-encode the bitmap, as only the Y position offset must be increased. However, some players do not like that subpics partially outside the visible ares, even if the part that is outside is fully transparent. Therefore, for those players, it might be necessary to force DVDSubEdit to crop the background manually with the "Crop subpic background" button.

Moving such big subpics UP requires always to re-encode the bitmap, as it is not possible to give a negative Y offset. The subpic is automatically cropped when needed.

IIRC, it is also necessary to crop the bigs backgrounds manually if you want to move the subpics left or right.

So, to be sure that DVDSubEdit will not need to re-encode the bitmap, you should always have a look at the background size (using the little "b" button, or another one if the subpic has not been encoded the standard way), and verify that your move doesn't put it partially outside the visible area. You should not use Crop Subpic Background neither, of course.

Note also that I've noticed in the past that the problem occurs on one of my players only when the subpic is moved up or down by an even number of lines. It is easy to move it only by odd number of lines, except if you use the vertical borders to control the move. For this reason, there is an hidden option in the INI file to force DVDSubEdit to move the subpic only by an odd number of lines.

Under Win XP, the DVDSubEdit INI file is located in "C:\Documents and Settings\<your login name>\Application Data\_DVDSubEdit.ini". The interesting options are:

ForceEvenMoves=1
MoveCommandsToEndOfDataAfterCrop=0

ForceEvenMoves is by default at 0 (off). I suggest you set it to 1 (on).

I don't remember why Jeanl has added the MoveCommandsToEndOfDataAfterCrop option, but he has found recently a bug that causes strange things in the display of the subpics. Maybe that option is related to that bug.