Muxman :: Fade & Wipe (program creating Effect statements)

[Anime]

i see that muxman accepts Fade, Wipe
but wondering what programs for creating them within subtitle script that muxman accept.

as it listed
File=*.bmp | *.tga | *.sst | *.sup | *.vob

so the only txt script it accepts maybe SST in case
so what is the command to have in SST script for it to accept?

or is there a way to write it and feed effect subtitle to muxman?

thanks for reading.

[Sir Didymus]

AFAIK, the Professional version of Muxman has the features to directly control the transparency level of the subtitles and to perform advanced manipulation of these assets.

About the production of subtitles with fade in and outs, according to this post:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=125467

the usage of the \fad tag, within the aegisub subtitling application:

http://malakith.net/aegiwiki/Main_Page

should do the job...

I am not sure if also Subtitle Workshop is supporting the production of subtitles effects you are interested on...

Maybe better to ask in the Subtitles forum...

Cheers,
SD

[mpucoder]

MuxMan version 1.0 and later accept fade and wipe effects in .mxp files as described in mxp document (http://mpucoder.com/Muxman/mxp/substrm.shtml) and the fade effect in .scp files, but AFAIK there is no way to specify effects in .sst files.
As SD pointed out in the other thread, you can specify the opacity of each color and simulate a fade effect, but it is neither elegant nor guaranteed to work. If you do this do not specify a duration of 1 frame per subpicture, but rather set the duration to 0 so that no STP_DSP command is generated. Many DVD players do not like this with a high framerate. And, since the subpicture is being encoded repeatedly for each change in contrast, you may run into bitrate problems.

The commands in .sup and .sp files are preserved by MuxMan, so any program that can create effects and render to .sup or .sp will work.

[Anime]

@Sir Didymus

i understand the \fad but problems end up they are in ass/ssa but couldn't bring over to muxman when muxing DVD
-----------------------------------------------
@mpucoder
i understand that SST that muxman accept doesn't provide those function
then how about SCP and .sp? is muxman gonna accept them?
is there a work around ass/ssa >> sp/scp with effects bring over, and let muxman accept?
------------------------------
the main thing i understand is all effect was ignore at the stage of ssa >> SST before feeding to muxman, i couldn't find a work around with ass/ssa >> ?? >> muxman

is there another unicode application like MaestroSBT which able to prepare subtitle for muxman?
~thanks for your time answering...

[Sir Didymus]

...If you do this do not specify a duration of 1 frame per subpicture, but rather set the duration to 0 so that no STP_DSP command is generated...

That's very important to know. Thanks for the precious info...


...Many DVD players do not like this with a high framerate. And, since the subpicture is being encoded repeatedly for each change in contrast, you may run into bitrate problems...

Yes... I was aware about these unpleasant possible consequences...


...The commands in .sup and .sp files are preserved by MuxMan, so any program that can create effects and render to .sup or .sp will work.
Yes... That's the solution to use based on Muxman free...


...and the fade effect in .scp files...

Reading better your post I realised I did not understand the quoted part of your sentence...
Could you expand this part a little bit please? You mean that a possibility is to adopt the scenarist script file (instead of the native mxp) for the whole MuxMan project?

Well, thanks again for your contribution!
SD

[Sir Didymus]

i understand the \fad but problems end up they are in ass/ssa but couldn't bring over to muxman when muxing DVD

You mean that no applications exist to convert subtitles from the ass/ssa format to the sup? That's incredible to know... Let's perform some search on the matter... Some subtitle encoder performing the rendering from ass/ssa should exist somewhere!


...i understand that SST that muxman accept doesn't provide those function then how about SCP and .sp? is muxman gonna accept them?...

AFAIK, Muxman 0.16, which is the freeware version, support .sup, .sst and .bmp assets for the subtitles. The professional version includes also .tga pictures (the fade and wipe effects apply to .bmp and .tga) and the demuxing of subpictures direcly from .vob files...


is there a work around ass/ssa >> sp/scp with effects bring over, and let muxman accept?

At the present time, the possibilities are as follow:
1. Using MuxMan pro: there is the direct support of effects for coloring the pictures (.bmp and .tga assets) in a rectangle (karaoke?), wipe and fade.
2. Using MuxMan free: there is the support to .sup and .sst. The .sup assets are encoded streams that should be prepared externally. All effects created by a subtitle rendering application in this format will be preserved. With the .sst assets the fade-in and fade-out effects can be created only by means of a "trick", which may lead to troubles in the authoring and/or in the playback (e.g. specifying the opacity of each color and encoding each individual picture in the fade sequence).


the main thing i understand is all effect was ignore at the stage of ssa >> SST before feeding to muxman, i couldn't find a work around with ass/ssa >> ?? >> muxman

What we can do is:
1. To ask mpucoder to support in some future version of MuxMan pro also the ass and ssa formats... :)
2. To try to find some applications to perform ass/ssa --> sup
3. To use the sst assets with the fade in and out effects simulated.


EDIT: IMPORTANT!!! JUST PERFORMING A SHORT SEACH ON THE SUBJECT, I FOUND THAT MANUSSE JUST RELEASES A NICE GUIDE ON HOW TO CONVERT ASSDRAW FILES TO THE SUP FORMAT (it was not difficult: it's just a sticky in the Subtitles forum...)...:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=139478

HOWEVER I DID NOT TEST YET THE METHOD, SO I AM NOT SURE IF (AND IN WHICH MANNER) SOME ADVANCED EFFECTS LIKE FADE, WIPE, KARAOKE COLOURING, ARE KEPT IN THE PROCEDURE DESCRIBED...

[manusse]

Hi,

HOWEVER I DID NOT TEST YET THE METHOD, SO I AM NOT SURE IF (AND IN WHICH MANNER) SOME ADVANCED EFFECTS LIKE FADE, WIPE, KARAOKE COLOURING, ARE KEPT IN THE PROCEDURE DESCRIBED...

At present those effects are not supported. The method I show in my guide allows converting sequence of bitmap images to sup files. This allow for creating SUP animations.

About the fading effect, you can use DVDSubEdit. In the future we plan for supporting ASS files.

Cheers
Manusse

[Sir Didymus]

...At present those effects are not supported....

... Sigh... Bad to know...


...
In the future we plan for supporting ASS files...

You mean to directly load ass file within SC?
That's good to know! :)

Thanks for clarifying!

Cheers,
SD

[manusse]

You mean to directly load ass file within SC?


Probably if it's not too difficult. ASS rendering frighten me a bit. Maybe we could resort to VobSub for this??

Cheers
Manusse

[Anime]

hi, manusse happy to hear that there is a new sc... i havent use it for a very very long year... had been with maestrosbt for about 400+ dvd since sc 2.2
---------------------------------------------------------
is there fix for dirty pixel yet? (should be cropped bmp issue)
is there fix for sup>idx+sub>sup (vic versa) situation, without lowering the size of .sup?
is there fix for continous time subtitle, sc trying to change previous subtitle end_time
is there fix for end-time continous subtitle without flickering
is there any changes in supicture quality rendered?
-------------------------------------------------
i really loved dvd subtitle thats the reason i pester SC 2.2 quality long way back~ there, and is also the reason i gave up using SC 2.2 after so long of using when SC subpicture quality cannot enhanced in the past

nice stuff i see in SC change log like chinese split sentence for too long lines, i actually going for something like variable setting sentence = 16, if longer than that "TOTAL(+1 if odd)/2", and split AI for specific.txt where split is recommend after that character if requires splitting

i give SC a try, let SC thread know if i find something.

anyway i made this using maestrosbt...and such, incase anyone want to refrence or anything at rendering results

Maestrosbt.Plain.AA
youtube for result DVD non-flicker continous end_time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ1gDY9vU-M

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/vaxva/DVD/_C/Claymore/CHAPTER7---00003.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/vaxva/DVD/_C/Claymore/CHAPTER1---00002.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/vaxva/DVD/_C/Claymore/CHAPTER1---00003.jpg

Maestrosbt.AA+Dropped Shadow (opaque)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/vaxva/DVD/_D/DeathNote/L_CHANGE_THE_WORLD---00009.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/vaxva/DVD/_D/DeathNote/L_CHANGE_THE_WORLD---00010.jpg

Maestrosbt.NO-AA.opaque outline+Dropped Shadow (translucent)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/vaxva/DVD/PM_ANA_SHORTS_4---00002.jpg

Maestrosbt.Plain.AA.translucent font body.opaque outline+Dropped Shadow (opaque)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/vaxva/DVD/_P/Pokemon/R2J_Movie_5---00006.jpg

[manusse]

Hi Anime,

I've just found your message. Let me answer your questions:

is there fix for dirty pixel yet? (should be cropped bmp issue)
NOT YET
is there fix for sup>idx+sub>sup (vic versa) situation, without lowering the size of .sup?
I THINK
is there fix for continous time subtitle, sc trying to change previous subtitle end_time
No because it's DVD standart to have an entire number of field duration
is there fix for end-time continous subtitle without flickering
YES, put end time to 0 and it will work
is there any changes in supicture quality rendered?
No but with the new version you can use images rendered by other softwares

Cheers
Manusse

[ManOfHonor]

hanyway i made this using maestrosbt...and such, incase anyone want to refrence or anything at rendering results
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/vaxva/DVD/_C/Claymore/CHAPTER1---00002.jpg
Please, please can you tell me which font and colors do you use in this case? I realy love their look. In my country subtitles on commercial DVDs look similar to those. I also use MaestroSBT but I can't get these subs. :thanks:
EDIT: Sorry for my (bad) English

Regards

ManOfHonor