k-lite codec wireless streams stutters

[lettcco]

Mod, not sure if this is the right place to put it, please move it if necessary.

I am scratching my head on this one...so I have k-lite codec 3.9.0 full installed. when I stream a avi (mp4 based) over a cat5 connection, it plays fine over the network. When it is played over a WIFI network, then it stutters like hell, especially at the beginning. Now that sounds like the wireless network has topped out on the transfer rate right? Not so, cause when I copy the file to the local harddrive first, it is transferring at a lot higher bitrate.

When I uninstalled k-lite codec and installed xvid 1.1.3, then it plays fine over the wireless network, no stuttering.

Ideally I would like to keep the k-lite codec pack installed so I can play mkv file, but for the life of me I cant figure out why it is giving me problem over the wireless network. Can someone please give me a clue? thanks!

[Dark Shikari]

K-Lite is extremely notorious for being a bad codec pack; it is filled with conflicting codecs that can easily cause problems when you least expect it. More recent versions have gotten a bit better about this, but most people end up getting older versions. Of course, even the more recent ones aren't very good either.

If you need to play MKV files, might I suggest either the CCCP (DirectShow/codec pack solution) or VLC (standalone) or mplayer (standalone)?

If uninstalling K-Lite fixes it, then uninstalling it is probably the right thing to do ;)

Now, I'm actually surprised uninstalling K-Lite fixes it, since I've heard of this problem with all sorts of setups--perhaps it has to do with how much the player buffers or something of the sort.

[clsid]

K-Lite is certainly not a bad codec pack and does not allow the installation of any conflicting stuff. I would love to hear about what Dark Shikari thinks conflicts with each other in recent versions (like lettco is using).

It uses ffdshow by default for decoding Xvid video. So maybe it's ffdshow's fault. You could try selecting the regular Xvid filter during installation (it is the alternative choice).

One thing I don't understand is that you say that your AVI file is MP4 based. So what type of file is it really? Because different source filters (splitters) are used for these two types.

The splitter is the main candidate in this case where things may go wrong. So what you should try is to change the selection of the preferred AVI splitter. Select 'use system default' (=Microsoft) instead of 'Gabest'.

If that solves the problem, let us know. Then maybe Casimir666 (the current developer of MPC-HC) can improve that filter.

[Dark Shikari]

K-Lite is certainly not a bad codec pack and does not allow the installation of any conflicting stuff.
A list of what K-Lite Mega Codec Pack installed last time I looked at it (a long time ago):
* three separate (and by default conflicting) MPEG4 ASP decoders
* two different and incompatible VP* decoders
* no less than FIVE different (and conflicting) MPEG1/MPEG2 decoders - God alone knows which one will actually get used
* three MPEG4 ASP encoders, x264 VfW, three mutually incompatible VP* encoders (3, 6, and 7)
* three or four Intel Indeo encoders (depending on how you count) - versions 2, 3, 4, and 5
* two MPEG4 SP encoders, namely Divx3 and MSMPEG4
* three different and incompatible AC3 decoders, two of which are actually the same (AC3filter, but two different versions, one being a leaked beta never intended for public use)
* various mp3 de- and encoders (the decoders being utterly pointless since Windows comes with one)
* two different AAC decoders
* two conflicting Matroska splitters, two conflicting Ogg splitters (one being the ancient evil crashing OggDS) and two likewise conflicting MP4 splitters
* no less than FOUR different and subtly incompatible MPEG splitters
* TWO different versions of VSFilter, 2.33 and 2.37, the former known for being extremely buggy - also, since these two are basically the same filter, I'm far from sure that Windows even LETS them both being registered at the same time
* at least two utterly pointless and in many cases downright HARMFUL directshow filters (Morgan Stream Switcher and Matrix Mixer)
* ... and as icing on the cake, ffdshow. WITH all the plugins AND the VfW interface.
All codec packs are inherently evil unless proven otherwise. And if uninstalling one fixes the problem, it probably isn't coincidence.

Of course, promoting K-Lite on this forum is probably bannable too (rule 6 violation), since it contains pirated software.

[clsid]

That list is complete bullshit. Full of utter nonsense. Not surprising for a list made in the stone ages. Just the fact that you say that a VP6 and a VP7 decoder are 'incompatible' (which they obviously are since VP6 != VP7), forces me to not take you seriously at all. I suggest you stick with video encoding, something you know much about, and stay far away from anything DirectShow related.

I am not promoting anything. I am just trying to help someone solving a problem. You are the one who suggested usage of an evil codec pack.

[Leak]

Well, the K-lite codec packs Google brought up all contain an MPEG2 decoder from Cyberlink - I don't think that is freely distributable, no matter what...

np: The Notwist - Good Lies (The Devil, You + Me)

[Atak_Snajpera]

Once I had CoreAVC in K-Lite shit. :)
clsid those codecs are really bad. During playback everything seems to be ok but during conversion problems start to appear. I really don't understand people why they use codec packs? You need only two things FFDSHOW and Haali Media Splitter (optionally also MPC-HC)

[clsid]

Which codecs/filters exactly do you mean that are are bad when used for conversion?

K-Lite uses MPC, ffdshow and Haali media splitter by default. The reason why people use packs is because they either don't know what they need or are too lazy to install everything separately.

[Sharktooth]

You dont need a codec pack at all. VLC, Mplayer or MPC HC can play almost all formats without any help of any external decoders.
codec packs are ALWAYS evil (expecially K-Lite... it was complete crap in the past,it is complete crap right now and it will be complete crap in the future...), since they just replace the original installers of the various included softwares with buggy and centralized ones... and it usually ends up in a complete mess or screwed up systems.
if you need a universal decoder for playback with other players, you can get ffdshow (and maybe haali media splitter too) and you're done.

[CruNcher]

The only problem i see in most codec Packs technicaly is avisplitter.ax (it's very unstable crashes randomly on every architecture) and also some versions of mpegsplitter.ax (slow, except version 1.0.0.5, also parses some Mpeg-2 PS streams wrong that Microsoft does correctly), tough in K-lite Mega Codec pack avisplitter.ax is not enabled by default (a good decission) :P

But mpegsplitter.ax is, unfortunately it seems the Devs of the Pack forget that Microsofts own mpg2splt.ax is working still (thx to the automatic chaining) and that couses problems in combination with Gabest Source/Splitter so better is people unregister Microsofts mpg2splt.ax they can do it from inside this Codec Tweak tool that comes with K-lite (tough it's not really designed for the average user, to complex) also the splitter is wrongly named Microsoft mpegsplitter, but it doesn't parse mpeg-1 at all only mpeg-2 bitstreams a pro of it is that it can parse elementary mpeg-2 streams which unfortunately Gabest source/splitter doesn't yet) or manualy regsvr32 /s /u mpg2splt.ax.

K-lite seems to be very carefully made, definietly by guys who know what they do with just some flaws in OSS with commercial filter combination (speaking about the current version)
But in reallity the Design behind DirectShow is flawed (a outdated framework by a oldshool Unix guy), just recently i tried G-streamer on Linux and i was amazed how well it works without any interference in the graph generation (tough here interoperability is ofcourse better also because the fact you only have 1 main component most of the time doing everything (ffmpeg) :)
And also the Codec Detection works very nicely (really dumb proof, and application independent) compared to Microsofts inbuild Windows Media Player Codec Detection :D

Btw can somebody confirm that Microsoft broke the Indeo Video 3.2 and 5 support with Service Pack 3 ?

@Sharktooth
The problem is not really within the Codec packs @ all it is in the Design of Directshow the more different filters you have installed the more problematic it becomes (even some commercial filters are buggy as hell) and so the whole chain colapses (the bigest problem here is buffer overflow resulting in a loop). And by Nature it's bound to happen with alot of Applications installed it will break sooner or Later. Maintaining Directshow for example with 400 or more filters is HELL "Codec Hell", as each of these companies has their own way todo different stuff Parseing/Splitting/Demuxing/Decoding (you are constantly reporting interoperability problems). Nero and many others are nowdays going a more harsh way to prevent such problems shuting of their Programms entirely from the Public chain and maintain their own internal one (much more error proof).

And yeah sooner or Later Vista and Windows 7 (Blackcomb) are gonna bring an end hopefully to this with http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa468614.aspx the new Media Foundation, Microsoft says itself it's more "stress resistant" and with support of the Multimedia Sheduler also more stable "Playback wise less glitches through better CPU/GPU prioritization less or non DPC latency based dropouts.
Tough the first bug was allready here with the release of Vista and the Network transfer problems when @ the same time playing back Video, also if you read the documents it becomes clear that alot of resources where put more into DRM then anything else, also the Multimedia Sheduler needs to be supported by each application independently and i think for now only Microsofts own Media Player, PowerDVD 8 and WinDVD 9 do (im not sure but i think neither Media Player Classic nor Media Player Classic Home Cinema do support MMCS yet on Vista).

@lettcco
you said .avi mp4 based hmm how was it muxed alot of files aren't correctly interleaved (especialy old ones, old applications like nandub or old mencoder) and ready for such transfers in combination with libavcodec this could cause problems i think with changing bandwith scenarios like Wireless lan. If you created such files in the past it's better to remux your complete collection of those for better compatibility in the future with for example http://www.alexander-noe.com/video/amg/


PS: Im no Fan of Vista but im a Fan of the Kernel Improvements (all those that have todo with better process and I/O sheduleing) and the new wind Mark Russinovich brought into the Core Team with his ideas of Performance optimizing the old Monolithic Windows Kernel and i can't wait for Blackomb it will be the first time after a century that Microsoft gonna reach Linux and Mac OSX quality "Kernel wise")

[clsid]

The latest build of "mpegsplitter.ax" from the Guliverkli2 project has a very low merit. That was done so that the standard splitters from DirectX will be used when possible.
Casimir666 is going to make some improvements to this filter, such as better M2TS parsing. Suggestions for other improvements can be posted in the MPC-HC topic.

I would love to get more info on those AviSplitter.ax problems. I have never experienced any crashes with this filter. Mainstream files all play perfectly fine with it. There is the occasional rare file that b0rks, but the standard MS splitter isn't perfect either. Sample files are very much welcome in order to improve this filter.

[lettcco]

thank you for all the replies. The reason I went with a codec pack was because I wanted to play and see thumbnail of .mkv videos in MCE.

I have done some more experimenting. First I install k-lite codec but select the xvid codec during the installation option. Played a file over a network using mpc and it choked. Then I uninstalled k-lite codec and installed the pure xvid codec, wmp played the file over the network and it is smooth. Then I downloaded just mpc and play the same file...it choked! I didn't think the player have a role in this?!?

I uninstalled the xvid codec and put on vista codec pack. now the file I previously played over the network can be played on wmp no problem, and it also let me play that along with mkv on mce. Again, playing with mpc choked as I watched the buffer dips down to 0 on several occasions.

so for now I think I found my setup, thanks for all who have chimed in!