Nero sucks...

[jamewoong]

In the past years, I built my own DVD movie through Tsunami MPEG DVD Author Pro 2 and burnt it from their external program provided by Sonic with DVD-R/+R because I have no knowledge on how to do it... Now that I've gain some knowledge here, I can start to build my own DVD through PgcEdit or similar program. After a time, I've heard from some site that Nero is capable to burnt DVDs that most DVD will support it, so I've decide to use this program as the source to burn DVDs. I'm still using it today (version 6).

In the past month, my friend asked me to loan the video project that I've made (old one - burnt through Tsunami and new one build burnt through Nero) to him so he can watch them. He replied to me that his DVD player cannot read them all. The DVD player (Toshiba - VHS/DVD) show DVD logo, but it keep spinning... Sometime, it shows error on it. It's not a problem from the DVD player because he can watch DVD retail. I was like :confused: and can't understand why. May be it was because of the speed (old DVD are burnt via 6X and new one via 12X)? From that time, I was not able to resolve it and don't care... because I thought that may be his DVD player's sucks. :rolleyes:

Today, after a new DVD creation. I've decide to make a new test just to convince my mind. I burn that project through Nero with 6X. I test it and it is not working... :( There must be a problem with it because how come some DVD (even DVD+) work on that player and some not? It's not normal and I'll seek that answer now!!! So, time for a second test and the last one because I don't want to waste DVD. I want that my video is compatible for all DVD player, so I can loan them to everyone because if a media work on that DVD, then it should work on all other DVD. Let pretend that my friend's DVD are sucks.

Now, instead of using Nero to burn that video project, I switch to the external burner (from Tsunami MPEG DVD Author) provided by Sonic. Guess what? It's working!!!

Omg... So, all that time, all my new projects is a waste... :(

Well, from now, I'll not trust the Neror anymore. This is what I call a blind support. This CD program will go through the Shelter... hehe

P.S: Nero and Sonic use different kind of method to burn data...

[communist]

I must be special but my DVDs burned with Nero 6.6 at 8x speed seem to work just fine on every DVD player I've encoutered so far.

Since a different software already fixes your problem I can only advise you to make sure you use DVD+R and set Booktype to DVD-ROM.

[Shinigami-Sama]

my old nero discs especially the vcds crash my PC on access
so I had to throw them all out

was mostly bad music from when I was a teen though so no loss thankfully

[setarip_old]

@jamewoong

Just as noted by "Communist", I too have used NERO v.6.6 for quite some time now and it has always performed admirably for burning to single-layer media (DVD5) - always being sure to purchase only high quality burnable media and (for about the last two years) burning at either 4x or 8x, not faster...

[jamewoong]

@jamewoong

Just as noted by "Communist", I too have used NERO v.6.6 for quite some time now and it has always performed admirably for burning to single-layer media (DVD5) - always being sure to purchase only high quality burnable media and (for about the last two years) burning at either 4x or 8x, not faster...
The DVD media that I use is Verbatim (MCC) which I think it's already one the best behind Sony.

Well, a good burning program should burn DVD that is compatible to almost all DVD Player.

And Nero is one of the best burning program... and it can't be watched on that Toshiba, but burning over the Sonic DVD Writer (software) is watchable... And the DVD burnt trough Sonic could be watch on all DVD player so far. What's wrong in this?

Shareware VS free program (Sonic)!

[Ajax_Undone]

The way I see it Nero strayed from its customers when they joined that anti Piracy league and released Nero 7 +...

They will have no future on my desktop and that is for darn sure...

[setarip_old]

@jamewoongAnd Nero is one of the best burning program... and it can't be watched on that Toshiba, but burning over the Sonic DVD Writer (software) is watchable... And the DVD burnt trough Sonic could be watch on all DVD player so far. What's wrong in this?I notice you haven't said anything about burn speeds.

Did you burn the IDENTICAL DVD "package" (.IFOs, .BUPs, .VOBs) at the same speed with both programs?

[mpucoder]

Nero has a history of problems with 32k (or other size) gaps used for improved error recovery. The gaps are specified by the authoring program, and the exact sector location of each file specified in the ifo's, but Nero reallocates file locations without updating the ifo pointers.
If you specify no gaps Nero will burn a playable disk. The projects are always playable on a computer becasue computers use the file system and not the ifo pointers to locate files.

[shevegen]

In my experience, it is actually the Video Player that sucks.

I no longer have one.

One day I realized that computers do a *MUCH* better job at all these kind of tasks, and when my last video player broke, I didnt buy a new one (and I wont buy a new one knowing how much they suck).

This is of course just my personal experience but these days I am wary if a product I will buy, will actually ENABLE me or LIMIT me (limit me in my ways I want to use something).

[Inventive Software]

All the more reason to use ImgBurn really. :)

[Dr.Khron]

All the more reason to use ImgBurn really. :)

Agreed, I have NO IDEA why people still resist using ImgBurn, IMO one of the greatest pieces of free software ever.

(that said, I still use Nero to compose and burn audio CDs)

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Well, I like ImgBurn a lot. But it has failed several times during "Write Lead-In" phase on my machine.
Every time this happened, the application just stalled. The GUI was sill responsive, but the burning process just didn't go on and it also refused to abort!
While the LED of the burner was still flashing, I couldn't kill the ImgBurn process with ProcExplorer and I even can't shutdown/reboot the system. How can this happen?
Only way to go on was pressing the RESET button and of course the Disc was unusable afterwards.

First I thought there might be a problem with my drive or with the media.
But then a friend reported the exact same behavior with ImgBurn to me, so this obviously is a general problem in ImgBurn itself. That really is a pity :(
I never encountered anything like that with Nero so far...

[blutach]

Have you posted a log of your problems on the ImgBurn Forum (http://forum.imgburn.com/) (or here).

Regards

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Nope. I didn't try again since that happened the last time (a few weeks ago), because I didn't want to waste another DVD-R media.
But maybe I will give it another try soon and then create an error report if it fails once more...

Nevertheless I doubt the log will be useful, because there was no error (message). As mentioned, ImgBurn just stalled.

[blutach]

Are you on the latest version - there was some traps built in where the IO subsystem was non-responsive.

Regards

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Are you on the latest version - there was some traps built in where the IO subsystem was non-responsive

Yes :)

[Shinigami-Sama]

Are you on the latest version - there was some traps built in where the IO subsystem was non-responsive.

Regards

still IO locks me for a few moments when it access the drive though
but is still far far superior to nero imo
I've only had about 4 bad discs with imgburn, and that was most likely from using that horrible media I got for xmass

[Perplx]

I stopped using Nero when I had some friend over and was watching a video, I tried to burn the same video I was watching while I was playing it. It lagged the video and the audio was jerky, unwatchable. Keep in mind this is a 3GHz quad core, 4 GB ram 500GB sata drives blah blah etc, so I'm there blaming Nero cause my ~$3000 computer cant watch and burn an SD xvid at the same. Imgburn had no such problem.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I have not installed any of Nero's software since they lumped all their products into one big download.

I'd still prefer to have Recode 3 and ShowTime 4 available as a separate package!

[khagaroth]

Agreed, I have NO IDEA why people still resist using ImgBurn, IMO one of the greatest pieces of free software ever.

(that said, I still use Nero to compose and burn audio CDs)
Are you using the latest version of ImgBurn? It can now burn audio CDs too, so you can ditch Nero altogether (as did I).

[LIGHTNING UK!]

ImgBurn uses synchronous I/O. If your drive has trouble processing a command (or the drivers do), ImgBurn has no choice but to wait until it's finished - ImgBurn has NO control during this time. That's just the way this I/O stuff works.

You cannot abort once the command has been sent, you MUST wait for it to finish (doesn't matter if it's successful or if it errors out, it just has to do one of the two). If it never does, that's not really ImgBurn's problem. The only way out of it is to perform a bus reset - and it seems only special tools can do that... everyone else has to press the 'reset' button on their pc or turn it off.

[Shinigami-Sama]

well it never happened before your latest update so I'm not 100% sure about that statement, but its been so long since I've used nero I can't confirm if nero does it as well, or what

[LoRd_MuldeR]

ImgBurn uses synchronous I/O. If your drive has trouble processing a command (or the drivers do), ImgBurn has no choice but to wait until it's finished - ImgBurn has NO control during this time. That's just the way this I/O stuff works.

You cannot abort once the command has been sent, you MUST wait for it to finish (doesn't matter if it's successful or if it errors out, it just has to do one of the two). If it never does, that's not really ImgBurn's problem. The only way out of it is to perform a bus reset - and it seems only special tools can do that... everyone else has to press the 'reset' button on their pc or turn it off.

Yes, I see. But only ImgBurn did produce such "Deadlocks" several times on (at least) two different machines, while Nero never did so far.
So there must some difference. The problem might be in the drive itself or in the drivers. But then Nero workarounds those problems somehow...

BTW: I think both machines that show the problem (mine and the other one) use the same CPU and Board: Core2 Quad Q6600 on P35 Chipset.
But the DVD-Drive definitely is a different one and even the OS is very different (WinXP x64-Edition vs. Vista) ...

[Dr.Khron]

CPU and Board: Core2 Quad Q6600 on P35 Chipset.

Hmmmm, I have the exact same set up (Abit P35 Pro), and I have not had any problems with ImgBurn. Then again, since I built my video jukebox PC, the number of DVDs I burn for backup purposes has dropped dramatically.


Are you using the latest version of ImgBurn? It can now burn audio CDs too, so you can ditch Nero altogether (as did I).

I'm pretty sure I'm on the latest version. I know that ImgBurn has done CDs for a while, but I'm pretty sure that it can't do what I use Nero for: every day, I download podcasts, and burn them to an MP3 CD for use in my car(each CD lasts me about two weeks before its full).

Does ImgBurn support burning multi-session CD-Rs? I thought it was stricly for burning whole discs at once.

[menno]

This is getting pretty off-topic :D

Anyway, @TS: I suggest you contact Nero tech support (there's an email address somewhere on the Nero site). They might be able to help you.

[blutach]

Does ImgBurn support burning multi-session CD-Rs? I thought it was stricly for burning whole discs at once.You are right - there's no multi-session in ImgBurn.

And the latest version is 2.4.1.0

Regards

[Shinigami-Sama]

You are right - there's no multi-session in ImgBurn.

And the latest version is 2.4.1.0

Regards

oh?

http://shinigami.ca/stuffage/imgburn.JPG

[blutach]

That doesn't make it multi-session. That's just the method it uses to write the session. Google it to find out more.

Regards

[LIGHTNING UK!]

LoRd_MuldeR,

Is this 'deadlock' you're experiencing just when it's on the 'Writing LeadIn...' bit?

That's actually a bit of a made up term, ImgBurn isn't writing the leadin, it's just sent the command to write sectors 0 - 31 and the drive then does whatever it does to achieve that.

Some drives will accept the command, return control to the program and keep returning 'long write in process' if you try to send any other 'Write' commands. Others will not return control to the program until it's finished whatever it has to do (for the leadin etc) and written sectors 0 - 31.

So yeah, if the 'deadlock' happens during those times then your drives must be like case b. Drives performing like those in case a shouldn't make the system seem like it's deadlocked.

ImgBurn changes the current state from 'Writing LeadIn' to 'Writing Sectors' after the drive has accepted more data than it's internal buffer can handle (i.e. normally 2meg these days).

If you're saying Nero isn't deadlocking, try using its winaspi32 file and changing the I/O interface in ImgBurn to ASPI. Likewise, you can try ElbyCDIO and Patin-Couffin too.


Dr.Khron,

Multisession is supported but not at different sittings - if that makes sense! You can burn an image that contains multiple sessions (i.e. a CD Extra disc) but you cannot add to a disc at a later stage.

[ookzDVD]

I never use Nero above 6.6.1.15 :)
ImgBurn is still my Hero! now and forever!
Trust me I know what I'm doing :)

[LoRd_MuldeR]

@LIGHTNING UK!
Thanks for the explanation. The thing is: It doesn't happen every time, but it has happened several times so far.
This makes it hard to investigate, because you have to burn several discs until it fails... maybe...

One night ImgBurn failed two times to burn a disc that needed to be delivered the next morning :(
So I switched to Nero and it worked with the very first attempt.
Nevertheless I burned three disc of the same Image file yesterday and everything worked fine.
All using discs from the very same package (Verbatim CD-R's) ...

And remember: A friend has experienced the very same problem, using a different drive and a different OS (WinXP vs. Vista).
Just fortuitousness ???

I will try 'winaspi32' instead of SPTI and see if it works any better (or worse).
But somewhere I read that ASPI drivers under NT-based OS will simply emulate ASPI by calling SPTI internally...

[LIGHTNING UK!]

Yeah but the Nero ASPI drivers might use asynchronous (overlapped) I/O.

I believe Nero also defaults to using the Incremental 'Write Type' rather than DAO (For DVD anyway). You might like to give that a try.

Of course what you have to remember is that I've never hit this problem where it just stops burning at the start, to me that sounds very hardware/firmware/media-ish. The program is only ever as good as what it's sending data to - the program actually has very little control and just sends the 'Write' command over and over again from start to finished. There's very little room for error.
To my knowledge, none of the beta team have run into this problem either - if they had, I'm sure they'd have told me.

[Inventive Software]

I must say this. Since I've recovered some data from my "dead" hard drive that I dropped (hint, don't. Ever. Backups are now my main priority!), I've used DamnSmallLinux (DSL) to burn said data to CD, and it's a pig to use really. It has no real DVD support. If only something like ImgBurn was around for Linux...

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Of course what you have to remember is that I've never hit this problem where it just stops burning at the start, to me that sounds very hardware/firmware/media-ish.

Forgot to mention, the drives in use are:
Pioneer DVR-111D (Firmware 1.29) and BenQ DVD DD DW1620 (Firmware B7W9)

[LoRd_MuldeR]

If only something like ImgBurn was around for Linux...

It seems ImgBurn runs in Wine :)

I did not run a real test though, because Wine processes run incredible sloooow in the VBox :rolleyes:

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6932/imgburnwine1ye5.th.png (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgburnwine1ye5.png)

[r0lZ]

Are you using the latest version of ImgBurn? It can now burn audio CDs too, so you can ditch Nero altogether (as did I).
The only thing I haven't been able to do with ImgBurn yet is mixed mode CDs (audio + data). But is it really useful?
LUK!, is it something I missed?

[cdanddvdpublisher]

I haven't had problems with Nero, but... perhaps just saying so is going to change that (that's the way my luck often tends to go)

[LIGHTNING UK!]

r0lZ,

audio + data would be CD Extra - multisession.
data + audio is like a game or something.

The latter is far easier as the data partition would already be configured for LBA's starting at 0.

For CD Extra you have to work out where session 2 starts and offset all the file system LBA's by that amount when building the ISO part.

In short, it's much easier to create an image of a CD Extra disc and burn it than it is to build one from your own custom tracks.

[r0lZ]

Thanks for the info. And I mean first session = audio and 2nd session = data, to be compatible with all audio CD players.

In short, it's much easier to create an image of a CD Extra disc and burn it than it is to build one from your own custom tracks.But it's what I would like to do!

Is it difficult for you to modify "Create CD CUE file" to allow creating data sessions as well? Currently, it refuses any non-audio file.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Would it be possible to split all the "non Nero" posts into a new thread?

[prOnorama]

I must say this. Since I've recovered some data from my "dead" hard drive that I dropped (hint, don't. Ever. Backups are now my main priority!), I've used DamnSmallLinux (DSL) to burn said data to CD, and it's a pig to use really. It has no real DVD support. If only something like ImgBurn was around for Linux...

I'm not a Linux user but I do do have a few Knoppix Linux Live CD's lying around in case Windows fails. At one point my system HD with WinXP died and I could not reach the data on my 2nd data HD anymore (no matter what I tried I could not install WinXP on the data HD!).

So I used a Knoppix Linux Live CD -needs no install on HD- which has the k3b burning program to sucessfully burn > 100 Gb of data (including DVD's in VIDEO_TS format ) from the data HD, after which I could format the data HD and make it my new system HD.

So k3b is a great little program IMO (if a complete Linux n00b like me can use it shouldn't be too hard for others as well)

[Inventive Software]

Thanks. I've just discovered something which makes burning DVDs with DSL much easier. I found it via the MyDSL repository: tkDVD. It erased my DVD no problem, it burnt without issue. I've just gotta find a way of getting said data onto another HDD somehow. :)