32k padding: nero 7 vs imgburn

[Godai85]

hi, i read something about nero vs imgburn on dvd-video sl, but i'm confused...
32k padding is different from the problem that nero will write ifo & bup on the same sector or is the same ?
and...
i usually create iso with dvdshrink & burn with imgburn. but now i tried to burn files only with imgburn and i noticed that in this way the video_ts.ifo & bup are modified o_O'... also with 32k padding disabled...
if i burn it with nero 7 it writes exactly as the originals... why ?
it's strange :/
are you sure that lastest version of nero 7 still have problems with dvd files sorting ?
how can i test it ? (for example, i have ultraiso and i think i can see lba start sectors)

thanx in advance and sorry or my english ;)

[blutach]

32k padding refers to ensuring that the IFO and BUP are separated by at least 32k (this is useful for example in VIDEO_TS.IFO, where there is no menu VOB). Ner0, at least in earlier versions, cramped all the files together when it did its reallocation. I think this is still the case in Ner0 7. You can try to see what it does by burning a disk and examing it in ISOBuster.

Regards

[r0lZ]

Nero doesn't have to modify the IFOs if it burns the files with no gaps between them (unless the original IFOs have gaps.) Since ImgBurn doesn't create gaps, it's OK.

Not sure why ImgBurn modifies the IFOs when the gap option is off, but you can trust it! I would not say the same thing about Nero.

[jinjin_jp]

i usually create iso with dvdshrink & burn with imgburn. but now i tried to burn files only with imgburn and i noticed that in this way the video_ts.ifo & bup are modified o_O'... also with 32k padding disabled...
I feel strange, because iso writing (Write Mode) doesn't have option of 32k padding. This option is of Build Mode.
Now I tested. Creating ISO by DVDShrink and write by ImgBurn with 32k padding disabled (although it is of Build Mode). There is no gap.
How did you judge that ifo & bup are modified ?

if i burn it with nero 7 it writes exactly as the originals...
Perhaps when ISO writing, both nero and ImgBurn writes exactly as the original.
When File Writing;
Nero doesn't write exactly as the originals. It always removes gaps. It happend to be same as originals, when original has no gaps.
On the other hand, ImgBurn write exactly as the originals, when there is gap or not, when 32k padding disabled. (edit)=>Sorry it's mistake of my memory.ImgBurn removes gaps as same as nero.
If 32k padding enabled and IFO and BUP is separated less than 32k, it creates gaps of 32k.

how can i test it ?
I think DVDDecrypter's Program debug mode(push F6 key) is convinient.
It shows both start and last LBA of each file.

Regards.

[Godai85]

you can't imagine how much i wish i was born in japan :P
but i'm only one of many otaku gaijin in italy XD

however...
i mean that (also cause i didn't know the 32k problem) i usually make isos with dvd-shrink and burn them with imgburn. but now i would change my habits :P
i made a new "test" (build mode->iso):
this time if i "burn" (make an iso) a full dvd (not the one that i used last time) it unalterate video_ts.ifo (same as nero and both have exactly same lba starting sectors). but, if i erase some vts vob's, imgburn modify video_ts (crc is different and i verified also with an hex editor). even if there is at least 1 vob>32k and even if 32k padding is disabled o_O'
nero, instead, notify me an incompatibility.

the question is: why does imgburn modify video_ts.ifo in some cases?

[r0lZ]

You can't delete VOB files manually! It's a sacrilege! Your DVD will not be standard compliant, and will probably not be playable.

ImgBurn recomputes the VTS pointers according to the files it finds, the 32K gap option, and the layer break position (for a DL only of course.) It does that job very well, but it is your responsibility to give it a good, standard compliant DVD.

If you really want to delete a VOB, do it with PgcEdit. It will recompute and fix everything for you, and ImgBurn should not need to modify anything. (PgcEdit and ImgBurn use exactly the same 32K gap and layer break options and methods.)

BTW, DVDShrink cannot do an ISO suitable to burn a DL.

[Godai85]

i know that's not correct. but it's only a test. so imgburn analyses video_ts.ifo files and modifies it without my permission...
in this case i can accept it, but the previous time (with a complete dvd that doesn't have video_ts.vob if i remember correctly) imgburn modifies video_ts.ifo not for the 32k gap (i also tried with 32k padding disabled)...
why ?

as soon as possible i'll post images of my test

[blutach]

No, it doesn't. If 32k gaps is turned on in ImgBurn, if (and only if) the project requires it, it will create the appropriate start sectors in VIDEO_TS.IFO. If the project doesn't require it, nothing is changed (assuming a correct GetVTS Sectors has been done in the first place by your encoder - if not, it will fix it for you ... in other words, there's nothing to worry about with ImgBurn).

Regards

[Godai85]

i'm not saying that imgburn does a bad job. i only wish to know why it does something (and you are telling me that it does a sort of getvts, right ? probably the dvd that i used wasn't done very well...).
so, if i do a getvts with ifoedit should i have same resulting video_ts.ifo ?

[r0lZ]

Probably, yes. Or save the IFOs with PgcEdit (without the 32K option.)

It would be interesting to know which bytes has been changed. If you compare the files with the DOS command "comp", it will print the offsets of the bytes. Can you post them here?

[Godai85]

here're the differences:

Confronto di VIDEO_TS-imgburn.IFO e VIDEO_TS-orig.IFO in corso...
Errore di confronto a OFFSET F
file1 = 25
file2 = 15
Errore di confronto a OFFSET 813
file1 = 26
file2 = 16
Errore di confronto a OFFSET 81F
file1 = 75
file2 = 65
Errore di confronto a OFFSET 82B
file1 = 84
file2 = 74
Errore di confronto a OFFSET 837
file1 = 58
file2 = 48
Errore di confronto a OFFSET 843
file1 = E1
file2 = D1
Errore di confronto a OFFSET 84F
file1 = 86
file2 = 76
Errore di confronto a OFFSET 85B
file1 = 25
file2 = 15
Errore di confronto a OFFSET 867
file1 = C7
file2 = B7
Errore di confronto a OFFSET 873
file1 = 6B
file2 = 5B
10 differenze - confronto terminato

ifoedit finds many problems and video_ts-original is changed very much (even with the video_ts-imgburn, so imgburn doesn't do a getvts, and the result is the same video_ts).
i repeat: what does imgburn do ?

ps: i confirm that there isn't video_ts.vob, but also disabling the 32k padding the resulting video_ts.ifo/bup is the same...

EDIT: wait... i installed the 2.4.1.0 version (before i used the 2.4.0.0). i changed the setting. i closed and reopened the appz anche remade the iso... this time video_ts is identical to the original :D
but... the size of the original is the same as the imgburn+32kpadding enabled. how does 32k padding work ? i thought that it increases the size of video_ts.ifo/bup.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

ImgBurn does a 'get vts sectors' type process based on the physical layout on the disc.

Any padding sectors added between the IFO and BUP are lost the second you look at them as files or copy them to your hdd and run 'get vts' inside another program (i.e. IfoEdit).

ImgBurn doesn't make the IFO / BUP files bigger, it just inserts empty sectors between them.

[blutach]

Anyway, there is a better method than this.

Just before burning, open your project in VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm) and ensuring the "Smart Gaps" option is ticked in More Settings, from the menubar, run Adjust Sectors --> In Input Folder.

This puts small files where required into your project and ensures your IFOs and BUPs are not adjacent to each other.

Regards

[Godai85]

ImgBurn does a 'get vts sectors' type process based on the physical layout on the disc.

does it mean that imgburn modify address in video_ts in order to point on bigger address (cause other files are shifted) ?

[r0lZ]

That's right. This is the way the gaps are implemented. There are a lot of pointers in VIDEO_TS.IFO telling where on disc the other IFO and VOB files begin, relatively to the start sector of VIDEO_TS.IFO. They have to be modified if the files do not occupy the same relative location on disc.

[Godai85]

ok, now i understand :P
thanx :)

ps: is there a method to backup 1:1 dvd but making a slideshow of a particular vts ? i tried dvd shrink, nero recode and dvd-rebuilder. but all change something other the vts that i want :(
i want to backup a dvd9 in 2 dvd5 (1 full movie, 1 full extras), but i want that is possible to fuse them togheter to have the original dvd9 files :P
i know that is off-topic, i don't know which is the correct section, so if you want to answer via pm ;)

[blutach]

To split, you can use VobBlanker - keeps menus on both disks (and blanks the unwanted portions on each disk - no slideshow, although you cold substitute one using Replace).

To put back together, you can use Zacoz's method - see IFO/VOB Editors sticky - or use DVD Remake Pro (http://www.dimadsoft.com/dvdremakepro/index.php) (one click).

Regards

[r0lZ]

Not sure I understand. What do you want to do exactly?
A slideshow is a collection of still images with background music. Nothing related at all to DVD5 or 9.
And if you split a DVD9 in two discs, it's obviously not to do a DVD9, so why do you want to fuse them? It is easier to back your original up to a DL directly.

[Godai85]

what i want to do is a full backup in 2 dvd5 (less expensive). but i will that all (but the compressed/slideshow) vts are exactly as the original.
unfortunately, based on what i read, there's no way... all progz needz to modify others vts (ifo and vob sizes). so it is easier to do with dvd shrink right ? :)

[r0lZ]

Anyway, if you remove some material, you have to modify the IFOs, yes.

Personally, I use PgcEdit to split the DVDs. (I do two copies of the original, and I blank out the useless material on both copies.) You can also use VobBlanker for this part of the job.

If it's not sufficient for a DVD-5, I use then MenuShrink to convert the animated menus to still, and finally DVDShrink to compress the main movie.

Note also that if the movie is too long, and must be heavily compressed, I burn a DL, or I split the main movie (and I keep the bonuses on both discs when there is enough room.)