Price discussion on AnyDVD - moved from Decrypting

[wildchild77]

Personally I feel SlySoft is becoming just as Greedy as our friends at Sony with there price increase and all of a sudden they break BD+ after HD-DVD throws in the towel. What a coincidence? yeah right! Until a Linux solution arises High Def can **** The DVD format can create a great picture especially on a upscaled HD-DVD player like the one Toshiba offered!

[sarastro]

Personally I feel SlySoft is becoming just as Greedy as our friends at Sony with there price increase

What price increase? Maybe you should read this http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=10394, you shoudn't blame slysoft for the fact that the dollar keeps falling.

[Furiousflea]

Personally I feel SlySoft is becoming just as Greedy as our friends at Sony with there price increase and all of a sudden they break BD+ after HD-DVD throws in the towel. What a coincidence? yeah right! Until a Linux solution arises High Def can **** The DVD format can create a great picture especially on a upscaled HD-DVD player like the one Toshiba offered!

I know it doesn't really belong here, but you are kinda right...

I find it a little strange that Peer has repeatedly said they would rather HD DVD win the format war than Bluray, yet they released the BD+ version of AnyDVD HD straight after HD DVD lost and it started to be reported that Bluray sales were sky-rocketing.

I think this late release was a deliberate one to improve sales, as now, there is only one format as a result of HD DVDs death there will be a lot more people buying into HD, and thus...

More sales for Slysoft...

If they really "supported" HD DVD they should have released BD+ beating software before HD DVD threw in the towel...In some ways one could say they were a cause of HD DVDs defeat.

Think about it, if Slysoft weren't so far ahead of the game with this there would be a lot more motivation for others to have made some effort, instead of, basically the last year where NOTHING happened at all, also stifling non commerical research.

Look I'm not having a go as such, but there are some negatives to Slysofts great achievement, a great a achievment it is and if I were them I'd be laughing all the way to the bank (which is completely fair).

Just wish they wouldn't make out to be whiter than white which some posts their team have made do imply to an extent. Personally feel that AnyDVD HD is over priced. It costs pretty much £50 which is quite a lot for a utility of this nature, if you think of the number of customers they have, and the competetion (none). Well, I don't mind paying it, but I'm not excatly "over the moon" about it :)

Anyways, congrats, just wondering if my thoughts are true etc in regards to the timing of the release and that, or I'm just being rude throwing wild accussations around.

Thanks, :thanks:

[wildchild77]

Anyways, congrats, just wondering if my thoughts are true etc in regards to the timing of the release and that, or I'm just being rude throwing wild accussations around.


At least you did not get smacked with a rule violation and have a complete post deleted as it seems I have. Looking for the rules right now to see which one I violated, it seems there not that easy to find even with the search feature! I will give it another go as I do not want to break any more rules and sorry to anyone I may have offended.

Edit: Found the rules at the top of the page. go figure. I see where the problem was and apologize! fot that error in judgment.

[SamuriHL]

The conspiracy theories are hilarious, that's for sure. You guys are acting as though they had BD+ cracked the day it was released to the market and simply decided to hold on to it. It's my opinion that this is not the case and that it simply took them longer to crack than they originally thought it would. As for the price increase, there was plenty of time to buy it at the old price, and with a discount on top of that. They release discounts all the time for their products, as well. They are a company and as such they are in business to make money. Therefore they need to sell their product for a profit. They have programmers that get paid. If the product costs more than you're willing to pay for it, don't buy it. :)

[neuron2]

Looking for the rules right now to see which one I violated, it seems there not that easy to find even with the search feature! There's a link to them at the top of every page.

[wildchild77]

The conspiracy theories are hilarious, that's for sure. You guys are acting as though they had BD+ cracked the day it was released to the market and simply decided to hold on to it. It's my opinion that this is not the case and that it simply took them longer to crack than they originally thought it would. As for the price increase, there was plenty of time to buy it at the old price, and with a discount on top of that. They release discounts all the time for their products, as well. They are a company and as such they are in business to make money. Therefore they need to sell their product for a profit. They have programmers that get paid. If the product costs more than you're willing to pay for it, don't buy it

There is no conspiracy theory and I have no need or want for what Blu-Ray offers

And if you are up on the news here at Doom9 this is just another reason to never buy anything from Sony!

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9362/Sony%2BBMG%2BSued%2Bfor%2BSoftware%2BPiracy%2B-%2BAssets%2BSeized

There's a link to them at the top of every page.

I edited my previous post as I found them after using the search feature first!

Just a thought when the warnings are sent maybe a link to the rules should be included. Again sorry to those who may have been offended by my post, that was not my intention. Also the post was edited for rule#4 and the warning was for rule #15

[SamuriHL]

There is no conspiracy theory and I have no need or want for what Blu-Ray offers

And if you are up on the news here at Doom9 this is just another reason to never buy anything from Sony!

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9362/Sony%2BBMG%2BSued%2Bfor%2BSoftware%2BPiracy%2B-%2BAssets%2BSeized


That's no problem if you don't want to buy into Blu-ray. Many people don't and I really don't blame them. It's very expensive now and prices have actually gone UP since HD DVD was defeated. That's contrary to my belief that prices would continue to go down due to now having to compete directly with DVD. At this point it's "safe" to invest in BD but it may not be the wisest time to do so. The standard is still changing with BD Live coming out this month. Unless you get a PS3 or build an HTPC I'd be hard pressed to recommend buying into the format right now. So yea, that's completely understandable.

LOL! Yea, I saw that yesterday. Good to see Sony practices what they preach. :D

Anyway, I'm truly glad for this latest version of AnyDVD HD. If I had to make the purchase all over again I would buy it even at the new prices in a heart beat as it provides tremendous value to me. Even though my equipment is all HDCP compliant, many people's equipment isn't. AnyDVD HD can deal with that problem by removing the protection and therefore HDCP requirements allowing their equipment to simply work. This isn't even ripping discs, this is simply about watching them. 50 euros is less than a new video card and/or HDCP compliant monitor in most cases. Just a thought.

[neuron2]

I edited my previous post as I found them after vusing the search feature first!

Just a thought when the warnings are sent maybe a link to the rules should be included. Again sorry to those who may have been offended by my post, that was not my intention. Also the post was edited for rule#4 and the warning was for rule #15
Please stay on topic for the thread. Discuss such matters in PM with a mod. I will send you a PM with an explanation.

[wildchild77]

LOL! Yea, I saw that yesterday. Good to see Sony practices what they preach.

I have been a major Sony hater starting with the fall of DVD Decrypter and even more so so with the demise of Ripit4Me never mind the whole Rootkit deal and there latest attempt at anti consumer crap BD+. That's enough for now before I get myself in trouble by for getting to far off topic.

[blutach]

My views on SlySoft's pricing are well known (see here (http://club.cdfreaks.com/f88/anybody-note-intended-price-change-after-jan-1-08-buy-licenses-fast-use-x_mas-20-off-also-233726/)). Changing the price from $79 to E79 (a 50% increase) overnight is a huge grab for profit. But you don't have to buy their products (I won't ever buy them and wouldn't recommend anyone to do so at that price). Wait for the inevitable discounts and coupons and Antigua federation day celebrations and SlySoft's CEO's birthday etc etc etc offers.

@SamuriHL - of course prices would go up after HDDVD became extinct. It's basic economics - no competitor and prices go up. It was HDDVD that was keeping BD prices in check (and vice versa).

Anyway, this is not what this thread is about, so let's get back on topic. If you wanna start threads about high software prices, go do so in General Discussions.

Regards

[setarip_old]

1) SlySoft is a commercial enterprise - it raison d'etre is to make a profit

2) SlySoft is presently the only complete source for software for creating unprotected/unrestricted backup copies of commercial BluRay discs - as well as providing the means for playing commercial BluRay discs on non-compliant, non-HDCP computer systems

3) Therefore, SlySoft is presently in the position to "make hay while the sun shines" - to both recoup its development costs and make as much profit as possible while in the extremely enviable, albeit temporary monopolistic position - by pricing its product at the highest possible price point, without totally scaring off its present and potential user base

All of this will change when, in the near future, other commercial enterprises, such as DVD95Copy, release competing products. Pricing for such software will be significantly reduced.

Additionally, I have complete faith that, at some point in time (perhaps when BluRay hardware prices drop significantly - likely in time for Christmas 2008, despite comments by SONY flacks), the great freeware developers here will "catch up" and develop a thorough and complete "user friendly" BluRay toolkit...

[gioowe]

My views on SlySoft's pricing are well known (see here (http://club.cdfreaks.com/f88/anybody-note-intended-price-change-after-jan-1-08-buy-licenses-fast-use-x_mas-20-off-also-233726/)). Changing the price from $79 to E79 (a 50% increase) overnight is a huge grab for profit. But you don't have to buy their products (I won't ever buy them and wouldn't recommend anyone to do so at that price). Wait for the inevitable discounts and coupons and Antigua federation day celebrations and SlySoft's CEO's birthday etc etc etc offers.

...

Regards

Don't think that it's Slysoft's fault that the US-Dollar is worthless.

[Doom9]

Actually, AnyDVD HD isn't quite complete.. it doesn't do region codes on BD-J titles, yet. But you do get lifelong updates and they already promised to spend more time on region codes.

And in a free market, price is controlled by demand and supply.. there's ample demand but only one supplier. Even though the price is high, you do get something unique for your Euro.. it's up to you do decide if you need it or not. And there's another way to see it.. at €25 a disc, it takes you 3 Blu-ray discs to make up for AnyDVD HD.

[gioowe]

I have no doubt that they keep their promises. They always have.

[mikeathome]

(...)
And there's another way to see it.. at €25 a disc, it takes you 3 Blu-ray discs to make up for AnyDVD HD.

yupp, I had already sharpened my pencil to write that exact reply, for the reason to avoid a strike I didn't.

Working in the engineering business I can tell you how much it takes to pay for all the fruitless attempts to make something happen. People are used to call these attempts DEVELOPMENT; which takes time and time is money.

I am sure the Slysoft developers have to feed at least themselves -if not their families as well- and that even throughout the periods where their compilers spit out crap.

And if Slysoft developers live in Europe -which my believe is- it is only fair to pay them in EUR.

mike

[Peer van Heuen]

Actually, AnyDVD HD isn't quite complete.. it doesn't do region codes on BD-J titles, yet. But you do get lifelong updates and they already promised to spend more time on region codes.


Yes it does do region codes on BD-J titles - it did that from day one on...
It fails with a few discs because of a special limitation due to the "on-thy-fly nature" of AnyDVD :) We're working on a way around this...

[Peer van Heuen]

Personally I feel SlySoft is becoming just as Greedy as our friends at Sony with there price increase and all of a sudden they break BD+ after HD-DVD throws in the towel. What a coincidence? yeah right! Until a Linux solution arises High Def can **** The DVD format can create a great picture especially on a upscaled HD-DVD player like the one Toshiba offered!

Yes, ok, we're an incredibly greedy bunch and all we really want is squeeze the last penny out of you all.
But let's put that one solid fact aside just for a moment...


I find it a little strange that Peer has repeatedly said they would rather HD DVD win the format war than Bluray, yet they released the BD+ version of AnyDVD HD straight after HD DVD lost and it started to be reported that Bluray sales were sky-rocketing.

I think this late release was a deliberate one to improve sales, as now, there is only one format as a result of HD DVDs death there will be a lot more people buying into HD, and thus...

More sales for Slysoft...


How many HD-DVD's + BDs are being sold compared to DVDs? Is around 1% correct? More? Less?
So how much money us greedy scum is making with high-def? ;)
Now guess - compared to DVD protections - how much effort do we have to put into covering those new protections and updates of AACS and BD+?

At present, the only driving force behind all that high def stuff for us is a little "fame", it promotes our products. It's nice to show off what we can do. :) Yes, admitted... and it's simply what we do.
Do you really think we would hold that back just for some "maybe someday we're going to make real money with this"-attitude?

Believe me - it just took as long as it took. And yes: we could've done it a little faster, but not much. And the price would have been to fall behind with that part of our business that really 99% of our customers expect us to do.
That's all. No complicated games we're playing.

And as for the Dollar - Euro thing: we simply don't live in US dollar land. We got dollars, changed them into "real money" and it turned out that we got less and less real money for the paper that was and is constantly being printed in the US.

So we decided to stop that early enough. BTW: at the time we discussed that, the EUR was around 1.30 USD, and when we started off the EUR was even less than a dollar.
So by no means have we increased the price by 50% - we really simply lifted it back up to the original level we had some years ago.

[blutach]

And as for the Dollar - Euro thing: we simply don't live in US dollar land. We got dollars, changed them into "real money" and it turned out that we got less and less real money for the paper that was and is constantly being printed in the US.
As does every enterprise in the world which trades in USD but is not US domiciled. What is surprising is the magnitude of the price hike. 50% in one gulp. Anyway, it's not for me to set your prices; only to decide whether I will pay them - and I don't see value in it - E79 for a decrypter is off the scale IMHO.

I agree with setarip_old. When other firms come up with a product that effectively competes against AnyDVD, prices will inevitably decline. That's competition for you.

Regards

[bk1987]

I cant Believe people are giving Slysoft crap, they have software that does what no one else can do, they have free lifetime updates,(how many co. do that ? most just up date for a year and some until a new version comes out) Anydvd HD does everything it promises and more, and they seem to care about its customers which is rare these days, Thank you Slysoft for a great piece of software its worth every penny, without it my HTPC would not work as well as it does keep up the excellent work

[Rectal Prolapse]

For $80 Euros you could buy a videocard that has HDCP and maybe have a little left over for a partial sum on an HDCP-capable display. :)

The price is steep for people living on the Americas, but I guess Slysoft is going after the Euro import market. Probably a smart move - the winds are blowing towards the EU and their potentially stronger economy.

Slysoft is a business and they can say whatever they want and get away with it - it's up to us to keep them honest for as long as possible!

Anyhow - I guess the glitches are fixed with the latest release - good work!

[gioowe]

As does every enterprise in the world which trades in USD but is not US domiciled. What is surprising is the magnitude of the price hike. 50% in one gulp. Anyway, it's not for me to set your prices; only to decide whether I will pay them - and I don't see value in it - E79 for a decrypter is off the scale IMHO.

I agree with setarip_old. When other firms come up with a product that effectively competes against AnyDVD, prices will inevitably decline. That's competition for you.

Regards

Well, I don't know. A few months ago 1 US-$ was worth twice that much. Compared to the Euro and other currencies. So if you compare todays price in EUR with the price a year ago exchanged from US-$ to EUR you hardly find a price increase.

50% price increase simply means 50% value loss of the US-$.

[Furiousflea]

The conspiracy theories are hilarious, that's for sure. You guys are acting as though they had BD+ cracked the day it was released to the market and simply decided to hold on to it. It's my opinion that this is not the case and that it simply took them longer to crack than they originally thought it would. As for the price increase, there was plenty of time to buy it at the old price, and with a discount on top of that. They release discounts all the time for their products, as well. They are a company and as such they are in business to make money. Therefore they need to sell their product for a profit. They have programmers that get paid. If the product costs more than you're willing to pay for it, don't buy it. :)

Hi there, might have opened a little tin of worms here as people seem to stand on one side of the "fence" or the other. I'm not too fussed and sorry that it appears that I'm having a dig at slysoft. As far as i'm concerned its purely intellectual and a point of interest to me, their motives\goals etc.

I was basing my thoughts on posts they have made and what has actually transpired, certainly no consipiracy theories! :)

Just felt it was a bit rich that on the sticky in the AnyDVD HD forum and a few others posts in there, they seemed to support HDDVD like Doom9 does in the front page of this site, with similar remarks. I just found there actions not quite matching there un-official stance, and that this could be attributed to...

1. Appeasing the HDDVD supporters, of which they were generally much better informed and helpful than the Bluray supporters.

2. Reaching the situation we are at now, which is ideal for them!

To be completely open about this, I couldn't stand Bluray, not because of the format but generally because the people that supported it were nearly all brainwashed fools. This was my perception and it was a total turn-off to the format. I knew the copy protection would be removed sooner or later, so that wasn't really an issue. But hey we all have our reasons...

Thinking about it though, I'm greatful for Slysoft releasing the BD+ removal now as opposed to before, and I'm actually quite happy that Bluray is the format we must now buy, for PC backup 25GB is much more nicer (when prices eventually come down) DL HDDVDs woild never be ideal (much like DVD+R DL), slow reading\writing.

Also, I can buy a player now (not just the 360 addon I owned) with confidence, only problem now is the price, and I'm not into Sony that much...A PS3 looks like the only real option right now...

Anyway really sorry, for my post, as well as this long one...But things are much better now HDDVD is dead, rather than the deadlock we were at. It's kinda remarkable how fast everything has moved since HDDVD said, "We're finished".

[Peer van Heuen]

E79 for a decrypter is off the scale

You can't be serious.
"a decrypter" applies to several well known simple and free tools we all know, that do just that: decrypt. You even have to supply the keys yourself.

AnyDVD does a lot more, including the automatic removal of annoying stuff, like previews, trailers and such - without even requiring you to rip the disc.
It supports DVDs, HD-DVDs and Blurays all in one and seamlessly.
It's the only tool that allows you to insert a disc and then region code, trailers, user prohibitions are gone instantly as if they had never been on the disc. No extra click, no typing complicated command lines, no chanting mantras, ...
This doesn't exactly make it easier - we often wish we had gone the simple way and created "just a decrypting ripper tool".

We're constantly working on updates to integrate updated keys and remove new structural copy protections, that keep coming and are, unfortunately due to its popularity, aimed directly at AnyDVD.

We have a support staff that answers several hundreds (!) of support tickets every single day (including weekends and holidays).
You know the kind of questions being asked here in your forum, so you can imagine, that the majority of those questions don't even apply directly to our products but are of a more general nature.

This is a service we are providing for a lifetime - and charge a one time fee for it.

So if a customer uses AnyDVD for let's say 10 years, he'll have paid a monthly service fee of 66 cents (!) and even got the program for free on top.

If you really call that "off the scale", then your scale seriously needs some fixing :)

There is a difference between saying "79EUR is more than I'm willing to pay for this", which is a totally acceptable - personal - position, and "79EUR is generally off the scale".

[Inventive Software]

People are just narked because their currency is rubbish! :p

[ron spencer]

@peer

some people just have an axe to grind....you could sell anydvd for $20 and they would still complain....just keep going about your work and ignore it. Just is not worth arguing.

[blutach]

@Peer

Actually, I was very serious. Especially when you consider your competion's pricing. And please do not try to claim credit for innovating those things - we all know the now defunct RipIt4Me led the way (in regular DVDs anyway) in respect of advanced analysis (you call it AI - a fancy name for something someone else pioneered for free), removing ads and annoying PGCs, RC, RCE, PUops, Jump to menu and provided cleaner output and timlier updates than $lysoft while answering plenty of forum questions for E79 lower than $lysoft charges.

So, as setarip_old says, go on and make hay while the sun shines; but I wait for the day when we users have competion in the marketplace and don't have to pay these prices.

And, as a request from a non-user (so feel free to ignore it), perhaps one day you can solve the issue of throwing up burn verification errors while your driver is loaded.

@ron spencer - I have no axe to grind; my comments have, are, and always will be objective.

@Inventive Software - certainly US residents may pause to reflect on the increased cost of AnyDVD, but speaking for myself, the FX rate for the A$ has risen strongly over the past 2 years, so I can't complain about that. Nevertheless, the full AnyDVD HD would today cost me A$135, which I still say is (at least historically) bloody expensive and is a rate I am unwilling to pay.

C'mon folks - compare this price to good old DVD Decrypter and RipIt4Me and even with all its warts, DVD Fab Decrypter - all free. I'm not saying AnyDVD's quality isn't there (in fact, from what I read, the opposite is true) or that the "monthly rate" isn't low, I'm saying look objectively at the price differential.

Regards

[Inventive Software]

Point taken blutach, I have wondered why the A$ rate is so much worse compared to other Western countries.

I must admit, $79 seemed more attractive in lieu of the £-$ exchange rate hovering around £1=$2 mark. Them switching to € is actually hurting UK buyers because the € is getting more stronger against the £, so they might consider dropping the price so it's similar to $100. Oh, and we can't forget inflation either. ;)

$100 for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray decryption. Now where's my chequebook? :)

[setarip_old]

@Peer van Hueun

Hi!This is a service we are providing for a lifetime - and charge a one time fee for it.Excellent business model! (A competitor uses the same one):

SlySoft continues to build and retain existing customer loyalty, while at the same time cultivating the next generation of users who perceive the added benefit of utilizing a well-established, apparently "clean and complete" commercial product.

As I understand, you are a software developer/programmer. As such, I'd suggest that you should, as a Doom9 forum member and SlySoft employee, allow yourself to be involved only in technical, non-financial discussion...

[laserfan]

C'mon folks - compare this price to good old DVD Decrypter and RipIt4Me and even with all its warts, DVD Fab Decrypter - all free.C'mon blutach - none of those decrypts HD discs of any type, much less BD+! DVD Fab HD Decrypter has dropped the HD part...

I think until there is even one competitor to SlySoft, they can charge whatever the heck they want--and what they charge now is extraordinarily reasonable. I further think that "one payment and you get free updates for life" is amazing given that WE KNOW there will be many more attempts on the part of providers to deter "backups".

[ron spencer]

@blutach

I think you are comparing apples and oranges (which, in a way, may mean that you have an axe to grind).

You are comparing freeware tools to commercial tools. Sure, the spirit of forums such as these is for freeware...it is everywhere (Imgburn, eac3to, x264, and I could go on and on and on and on...........and on). AnyDVD is NOT in this vain...they have officies, a technological infrastructure (their website is not free), families perhaps, etc. They make their life on this stuff presumably. The freeware tool makers, who I respect ALOT, are not in this same circle....if they are how do they eat? Simply put they do it for fun and knowledge dissemination, which I appreciate.

So you cannot compare freeware and commercial products....you just can't; it is not fair for people on either side.

If you do compare the commerical products then fine, but it is suprious to say the least to compare DVDFab free and the like to anydvd. How about DVDFab Platinum to AnyDVD? Then compare the incremental features AnyDVD provides to price. Of course, you will need experience in cost accounting (and the data) in order to determine Slysoft's variable and fixed costs components to their pricing structure. You are in no position to determine this...nobody is except them.

So lets compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges....the freeware cost structure vs. commercial cost structure (and the resulting pricing) just cannot be done.

Is there a freeware tool that does EVERYTHING AnyDVD does? Nope....

However, one can compare say Nero Recode to Elby CloneDVD in terms of price/quality.

I cannot do with ANY program now what Slysoft offers. Are they charging monopoly rents? Perhaps (likely even), but without knowing their cost structures any definitive answer is lacking as to what the monopoly rents are...so I think it is a bit insulting to compare it to DVDshrink, Decryptor, etc...that was a totally different era and under totally different business models and much easier decryption algorithms.


G-day mate!!!!

[zeroprobe]

Blutach I think you forget were not in the DVD era anymore and everything is THAT much harder now.

With Blu-ray and Hd-dvd you simply can't just bruteforce a decryption key anymore. I'm sure there is alot of work involved with Anydvd HD and with such a minority actually WANTING to rip HD discs Slysoft are charging a fair price for it IMO.

[mikeathome]

(...)
So, as setarip_old says, go on and make hay while the sun shines; but I wait for the day when we users have competion in the marketplace and don't have to pay these prices.

That's good old capitalism, we all like, don't we?

And, as a request from a non-user (so feel free to ignore it), perhaps one day you can solve the issue of throwing up burn verification errors while your driver is loaded.

I run both apps, a donated ImgBurn and a payed AnyDVD HD. Looking at the features I probably have to get LUK another donation ;-). Anyway are there certain configs where you (Blutach) see these verification errors? Never had any; just curious.

(...)
I must admit, $79 seemed more attractive in lieu of the £-$ exchange rate hovering around £1=$2 mark. Them switching to € is actually hurting UK buyers because the € is getting more stronger against the £, so they might consider dropping the price so it's similar to $100. Oh, and we can't forget inflation either.

C'mon guys, you had the chance an voted against the EUR and couldn't just let the good old £ go :-)

Regards
mike

[deets]

im also a bit confused by the criticism, cracking BD+ was surely harder than DVD? that was kind of the point of having BD+

its all relative i suppose, but personally, given the high cost of HD, the price they charge to enable people to playback their legal purchased movies on any system they chose, its not that high.

i could now rip my movies and play then back in 720p on this laptop which is something i could never have considered before :)

anyway, i suppose you can never please everyone :D

[ron spencer]

never ever had issues with burn verification errors.....never a one

[Inventive Software]

C'mon guys, you had the chance an voted against the EUR and couldn't just let the good old £ go :-)

Regards
mike

I resent that! The £ is a British thing, hence why it should thereafter be referred to as "Pound Sterling". The € just makes things easy for everybody else in Europe! :D

Must donate to LUK though. I consider ImgBurn a complete replacement for CDBurnerXP and Nero. :)

[Furiousflea]

im also a bit confused by the criticism, cracking BD+ was surely harder than DVD? that was kind of the point of having BD+

its all relative i suppose, but personally, given the high cost of HD, the price they charge to enable people to playback their legal purchased movies on any system they chose, its not that high.

i could now rip my movies and play then back in 720p on this laptop which is something i could never have considered before :)

anyway, i suppose you can never please everyone :D

Not at all. There's nothing wrong with being critical of a company\product if its constructive. The term "criticise" is wrongly interpreted these days far too often, nobody has a go at a film critic for criticising a film. He\she is just analysing it and commenting on what he\she found.

Anyway, I'm sure the cocktails taste good and the sun is beautiful in Antigua, my cup of tea tastes quite nice in wales, the sun isn't quite the same though I'm sure... :p

Wonder what would have happened with BD+ had Slysoft not stepped up to the challenge? Any veterens here care to hypothesize?

[blutach]

@Peer van Hueun

As I understand, you are a software developer/programmer. As such, I'd suggest that you should, as a Doom9 forum member and SlySoft employee, allow yourself to be involved only in technical, non-financial discussion...
Sorry, but he can (and should) say whatever he likes on this forum, within the rules.

Regards

[blutach]

And to the others. It is fine to charge whatever they like - I just wait for competition to set in. And I believe the pricing is outrageous and that costs did not go up 50% overnight - that is just malarky and no-one can make me believe it (by the way Ron, I was, in my much earlier days, a cost accountant).

Re the verify errors, if the driver is loaded and active while verifying, it throws up errors (I believe in the VIDEO_TS.IFO file, at least) due to it's on the fly nature of altering things like RC.

Regards

[Zotty]

Wonder what would have happened with BD+ had Slysoft not stepped up to the challenge?
Eventually some solution would come, but hopefully BR would have died a painfull dead by then and the content providers would hopefully get it into their thick heads that they can shove their DRM where the sun don't shine (sorry I couldn't find any better way of putting this).

What I don't get is that most people have no problems at all with paying a lot of money for a decrypter. Why do we need a decrypter in the first place? Because current HD media just screws us. A lot of people are willingly buying into the worst DRM infested format I've ever seen and then find it normal to pay a pretty high price for a decrypter to remove the DRM. I find that disturbing to say the least...

[blutach]

Perhaps we should stop supporting SONY and its cohorts and bypass the format altogether!

If it never takes off, what will be shoved where the sun don't shine is their millions in R&D.

I am so sorry BD won the format war.

Regards

[Peer van Heuen]

Re the verify errors, if the driver is loaded and active while verifying, it throws up errors (I believe in the VIDEO_TS.IFO file, at least) due to it's on the fly nature of altering things like RC.

Regards

I don't know - James is the driver guru, I'll pass it on. Thanks.

[blutach]

Thanks for looking at it - especially since I am not a user!

Regards

[stringer1967]

Anydvd just works for HD DVD(xbox 360)...
Blue-ray(Lite-on pc drive).
I just needed a one stop easy to use decrypter,Back up system.
Works great with my HTPC system(Dell XPS which I believe
is really overpriced)
Anydvd was a small price to pay
have my system up and running to it's full potential.

[talon95]

In regards to AnyDVD's price, which BTW has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, seems reasonable to me. PowerDVD Ultra is $100 US and it's full of bugs and gets updated poorly (relative to AnyDVD at least). Heck the Slysoft guys put out so many updates, I almost get tired of AnyDVD popping up and telling me there's a new version! :)

Blutach is right about one thing though. It's purely supply and demand. If more options come available for less, then AnyDVD's price may have to be adjusted. Right now they're doing what no-one else has (in regards to HD media at least) and have likely worked hard to get there. Isn't it only fair that they should make good money for this? Isn't that the point?

[setarip_old]

@blutach

Quoting out of context can lead you to erroneous conclusions ;>}

In my full post directed to Peer van Hueun, I said:Excellent business model! (A competitor uses the same one):

SlySoft continues to build and retain existing customer loyalty, while at the same time cultivating the next generation of users who perceive the added benefit of utilizing a well-established, apparently "clean and complete" commercial product.

As I understand, you are a software developer/programmer. As such, I'd suggest that you should, as a Doom9 forum member and SlySoft employee, allow yourself to be involved only in technical, non-financial discussion... Now, you blutach posted:Sorry, but he can (and should) say whatever he likes on this forum, within the rules.My suggestion to Peer van Hueun was intended strictly in his support and for his benefit - so that he shouldn't believe that he (who's forte apparently is programming and development) has to try to fend off the finance-related digs that have been sprinkled throughout this thread...

Instead, if I were in his position, I'd simply state once that, "Im a tech guy. I don't get involved in finances".

Hopefully you now have a clear(er) understanding of my post which should be taken within the context of the several posts that preceded it, so that to paraphrase you - I too can (and should) say whatever I like on this forum, within the rules...

[setarip_old]

@talon95

(Please take this in the light-hearted but accurate way it's intended)

If you're quoting, please quote the correct member - and read my post #149 in thread ;>}

[frenchglen]

Perhaps we should stop supporting SONY and its cohorts and bypass the format altogether!

If it never takes off, what will be shoved where the sun don't shine is their millions in R&D.

I am so sorry BD won the format war.

Regards
IMO the format is irrelevant. Whatever they chuck at us we will undo. If blu-ay becomes mainstream, there will be strength in numbers and all copy protection will be broken because enough people will want to backup and rip their discs. Only if BD doesn't succeed commercially will it's DRM win.

[Rectal Prolapse]

Perhaps we should stop supporting SONY and its cohorts and bypass the format altogether!

If it never takes off, what will be shoved where the sun don't shine is their millions in R&D.

I am so sorry BD won the format war.

Regards

Well, the other alternative is DRM-infested movie downloads! Pick your poison! :devil:

(At least with optical media we can decrypt the movie and take it with us!)

[blutach]

@setarip_old

If Peer believed that ("he has to try to fend off the finance-related digs"), he wouldn't answer. Enough on this. If you wish to take it further, PM or EM me.

Regards

[Inventive Software]

Apparantly I got striked for this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1120768#post1120768) post, so my apologies to a nation must go out! I don't think I'd had enough caffeine when I read all that and wrote what I did. :D

[Peer van Heuen]

C'mon folks - compare this price to good old DVD Decrypter and RipIt4Me and even with all its warts, DVD Fab Decrypter - all free. I'm not saying AnyDVD's quality isn't there (in fact, from what I read, the opposite is true) or that the "monthly rate" isn't low, I'm saying look objectively at the price differential.

People do ... and buy AnyDVD. Any more questions? :cool:

[Sharktooth]

well, im going to buy it so i think my point of view could be shared.
i think anydvd hd is quite expensive but without any alternatives it is worth its price. i mean, it's a one time pay and forget... there are no subscription costs and you get one year of tech support and updates comes for free and forever.
if new or updated protections schemes comes from the kings of a$$holes (sony), slysoft will be still there to find how to bypass them... and you'll get those updates for free. so i think 79€ is not that bad...

[linx05]

blutach, didn't you buy a $500+ encoder at one point (Procoder)?

Is it "just an encoder" like AnyDVD HD is "just a decrypter"? One would hope not at a few hundred a pop! And that's not even with lifetime updates (correct me if I am wrong but I couldn't find anything on Procoders website regarding lifetime updates).

My point is, how can you justify paying that much for an encoder when AnyDVD HD does so much and more? At least Slysoft offers AnyDVD HD with lifetime updates.

[setarip_old]

@Peer van Hueun

This is reminiscent of the type of "back and forth" that occurred at various forums when DVD95Copy appeared as the first commercial true "one-click" DVD backup program. At that time, I had the following speculations:

Perhaps it's:

1) A generational thing, or

2) Due to the fact that forums such as this one are populated, among others, with freeware developers, or

3) The desire of one or a few to express their support for "favored" programs/authors and "shout down" or "punish" those with a different point of view


Back to the present:

Overall, it seems that (This is a good thing) there continues to be a firmly entrenched "freeware only camp" - who, in my opinion, should simply state that this is what they believe, without offering any possibly less-than-accurate comparisons as justification.

I believe if you count the relevant posts in this thread, you'll find that those who support the value of purchasing AnyDVD outweigh those who question its current purchase price.

Personally, I wish to thank SlySoft, its commercial competitiors, and the wonderful freeware developers, for continuing to develop programs that allow me to make backup copies of my purchased video discs of all formats ;>}

[Ajax_Undone]

I cant Believe people are giving Slysoft crap, they have software that does what no one else can do, they have free lifetime updates,(how many co. do that ? most just up date for a year and some until a new version comes out) Anydvd HD does everything it promises and more, and they seem to care about its customers which is rare these days, Thank you Slysoft for a great piece of software its worth every penny, without it my HTPC would not work as well as it does keep up the excellent work

Agreed there is much to see if you look at it economically they are sitting in the same boat they have been since they started this endeavor... I have purchased slysoft products and will continue to support them as long as they stay current on the formats that they support...

By the way if you want a free program that strips HD and BluRay. Its in your court to discover how and release it... BD+ Wont crack its self and aacs is a half way marker...

I believe Slysoft needs a round of applause for there effort in putting Sony/BMG in there place, and for breaking there 10 year "Unbreakable" Encryption device...:D

As for BD Live I hope it tanks...:mad:

Peer you and your staff are gods amung men...:rolleyes:

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

Let's just look at the simple facts here. Remove all the personal dislikes for Slysoft from the discussion. Some people hold obvious deep animosity toward Slysoft for reasons that, frankly, I couldn't care less about.

It used to be that people bought videos just to watch when they wanted and to just relax. We could watch a great movie in the comfort of our own home w/o going to the theater. Unfortunately, those old tapes used to wear out and became unbearable to watch if they didn't end up snapping or getting eaten. Back then it was actually affordable for a family of four to see a movie in the theaters and get candy w/o filing for bankruptcy but it was still nice to sit at home and watch whatever you wanted when you wanted and make your own popcorn and save money. These days if you have a family of four you are better off investing in a decent home entertainment system. You'll save money in the long run.

The days of simple enjoyment have passed. Now when you purchase movies on DVDs or more recently BD or HD-DVD you are making an investment. Yes, an investment. We no longer live in the days of TVs being pretty similar and a simple VCR. We now have more and more people with very expensive home entertainment systems and invariably discs get damaged. So to protect our investments people make backups. Just as we invest in our purchases we also invest in the software we use to make the backups that protect our investment. We want something that does the job and does it well, do we not?

People can decide which product works for them based on their own personal tastes. I, personally, couldn't care less what product someone uses. If they are happy with the results then so be it. As long as I am not forced to sit through watching a horribly bad backup with a friend that they made of their own DVD then I don't care.

Now, as I said before the backup software is just as much an investment as the original purchase of the movies and the equipment we watch it on. So, having said that, I have purchased AnyDVD, CloneCD, CloneDVD and the AnyDVD HD upgrade. Minus the HD upgrade I made my purchases back in 2003. I also don't have a HD-DVD or BD player but I made an investment knowing I likely would need it at some point. So, doing the math I spent 157 USD for all the products including the HD upgrade. My investment has essentially cost me all of ~2.6166666666666666666666666666667 USD per month since my purchase and as time goes on that will drop, of course. Unlike some other programs out there there are no yearly fees. All updates are free. Was it worth it? Most definitely especially since that figure included 3 programs and not 1! For just AnyDVD HD the figure is ~1.3166666666666666666666666666667 USD a month.

Slysoft continually improves their software and continually protects their customers Fair Use rights. They tackled HD-DVD quickly and AACS is handled as needed, then tackled BD and BD+.

People can decide to not purchase Slysoft products because they think it's too expensive and that's all well and good. For the people who do purchase it now and think it's expensive do the math for the cost if you use the software for the next 5 years. As I type this the cost of just AnyDVD HD is 79 Euro/122.66 USD. It would be ~24.54 USD a year or ~2.0443333333333333333333333333333 USD a month. Is it really that absurd a cost? I don't believe it is. Heck, two new DVDs can cost more than 25 USD.

One final thing I have to comment on is that I've seen some people in different places comment about the price going up and the switch to the Euro. One of the very reasons I purchased the HD upgrade when it was first released was the fact that I wanted to make my investment when it would be at its cheapest w/o fear of inflation. I was looking ahead. I also wanted to support Slysoft's efforts. I didn't know they'd switch to the Euro or that the USD would nosedive but I did know I had no reason to hold off and wait for some undefined future time. In short, I made a wise investment.

Step back and look at the big picture. If you still think AnyDVD is too expensive then so be it.

[blutach]

@linx05

What has my choice of encoder got to do with this thread (btw, I now, almost exclusively use HCEnc)? Most people know that I use a range of commercial and free products and donate liberally to the donationware I use (and help support).

Now, the quality of AnyDVD is not under debate here - at least for me. For breaking BD+, they must be applauded. So, putting that aside, what I wanted to discuss (without the defenders of the faith jumping down my throat) was the price hike - 50% - and the magnitude of the current price vis-a-vis the competition.

I have seen people who question current prices and the price hike. I have even seen AnyDVD supporters say, (paraphrasing) "I'm very glad I have AnyDVD, but if I had to buy it after 1 Jan 2008, I wouldn't". And I'm sure, as Peer says, there are new sales, too.

And yes, it's just a decrypter (at least in my book). It does no editing/en/transcoding/burning/other functions (for that, as DrinkLyeAndDie has observed, you need to buy another SlySoft product or the like or use freeware solutions).

In the end, price vs value is a personal thing. But you can also be objective and say US$122 - does that look "expensive" compared to other similar products (and not compared to the value of your DVD collection - that is not a valid comparison, IMO)? I believe that it does look expensive and hope for competitors to match SlySoft's efforts in terms of product offering at much reduced prices.

Regards

[SamuriHL]

And yes, it's just a decrypter (at least in my book). It does no editing/en/transcoding/burning/other functions (for that, as DrinkLyeAndDie has observed, you need to buy another SlySoft product or the like or use freeware solutions).


So, I guess on the fly removal of PUOs, subtitle transparency, region code removal, "magic file replacement" on HD DVD's allowing you to edit the title and have the files "replaced" in real time when the disc is inserted, etc, etc, etc don't count "in your book" as anything more than a "decrypter"? All of the ACTUAL decrypters you love to compare AnyDVD to do none of those things on the fly. ALL of them require you to rip the disc first. And most of them don't offer even half the of the features I just mentioned. A *LOT* of AnyDVD users own and use it for use on their HTPC's in real time...myself included. Why should I have to rip it to my hard drive if I'm just wanting to watch my original? Yet I'd like to have PUO's removed, skip trailers by jumping straight to the movie or menu, adjust subtitle transparency, etc in real time. AnyDVD provides that. So please stop calling it a "simple decrypter" because that is quite inaccurate does a great disservice to what Slysoft has accomplished.

[blutach]

No, it doesn't, as that is part and parcel of any decrypter (they all remove these things as they write decrpyted files).

I acknowledge that for those who want real time viewing (without writing files), the driver concept of removing these things is unique but is E79 worth it just to watch movies from your DVD without PUOs, trailers, etc?

Regards

[SamuriHL]

And that helps me on my HTPC...how, exactly? Again, I'm not talking about ripping. That is not the only thing AnyDVD is useful for. And that's exactly the point. If all it did was write some decrypted files to the hard drive, then I would agree with you and call it a decrypter. But, that's not all it does. The VALUE to me and others is that it does all those things WITHOUT THE NEED TO RIP. If I have a region B Blu-ray, I don't want to have to rip it just to play it on my HTPC. AnyDVD HD allows me to remove the region coding in real time to allow this...again, without ripping. If I want to skip the download content on my HD DVD's, I can do that with an option in AnyDVD HD, which again, works without ripping. All a decrypter does is rip a bunch of files to the hard drive. That's useless to me when I'm trying to play an original disc on my HTPC. Why rip if I don't have to?

[blutach]

Please see my edit above, which was done at the same time as you were responding.

Why rip if you don't want to? Your preference of course, but it costs nothing and protects your DVD. Probably plays better too as there is no jitter or error correction needed. But this is not the point of this (new) thread.

I recognise that I am not going to convince any AnyDVD lover on this. There are fans of the program, who just don't want to objectively discuss pricing.

Regards

[SamuriHL]

I'll talk about price which is the subject of this thread. The reason I brought up the on the fly features is precisely because I think those features DO bring value to the product. Not everything in this world is free. While it is truly awesome and excellent that a bunch of EXTREMELY talented people have brought us extraordinary freeware products like RipIt4Me, ImgBurn, VobBlanker, PGCEdit, and others, some people want to get paid for their work. I see no problem in software developers making money on their work.

So, as a result, you have to decide what kind of value to place on a product. AnyDVD, to some people, is unique in what it can do. If your only goal is to rip discs to your hard drive, then a freeware decrypter might best suit your needs. In that case, you have absolutely no reason to spend money on a product at all. IOW, there's no value that AnyDVD brings to the table to warrant purchasing it at any price.

However, AnyDVD has features that no other program currently has. The on the fly features plus the ability to remove protections from the latest HD DVD and BD's. Therefore if you DO want to back up your HD collection, AnyDVD HD is currently the ONLY way to do that. When you're spending 25-30 USD per disc on average, the price of AnyDVD HD doesn't look so bad in order to protect that investment. Again, there's NO OTHER WAY to do so.

So what is that worth? To you, not much, as is evidenced by every post in which you bring up the price of AnyDVD and the "sudden price increase." To others, like myself, who've already spent large sums of money to upgrade to HD, the price of AnyDVD HD isn't really all that high given what we feel it does for us. Do you balk at paying 100 USD for PowerDVD 7 Ultra in order to play your HD content? How about another 59 USD for the PowerDVD 8 Ultra upgrade that brings absolutely no new functionality over the existing version? If you'd pay those prices, as some of us were forced to do, then why is the current price of AnyDVD HD such a hard thing to swallow? If you wouldn't pay those prices for PowerDVD, then your position on AnyDVD HD is understandable.

It all comes down to choice. Either you feel there's value to be had in AnyDVD or you don't. No one forces you to buy it. If you feel it's too expensive, don't buy it. As a company, I feel it's their right to charge whatever they want for it. That's the beauty of the free market. If they price it too high, people will stop buying it, and the free market will correct the situation. (I.E. they'll drop the price).

In the end, I'm not going to convince you that it's worth it and you're not going to convince me that it's not. I have no real problem with that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Yours is that they've priced it too high. Mine is that it still is worth purchasing even at the current price. Such is life.

[specise_8472]

To me the reason I use AnyDVD is that it makes it that I can view multiple regions without the annoying 5 change limit screwing over my DVD Drive. Makes it worth the price.
But it does not work on laptops very much - but found a workaround by using a USB DVD.

[blutach]

It should work on laptops - why wouldn't it? It's a very low level driver.

Regards

[SamuriHL]

But it does not work on laptops very much - but found a workaround by using a USB DVD.

This part confuses me. This is not the topic of this thread so let's take this to PM, but, I run AnyDVD on my laptop and it works fine with both my internal and external DVD drives.

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

And yes, it's just a decrypter (at least in my book). It does no editing/en/transcoding/burning/other functions (for that, as DrinkLyeAndDie has observed, you need to buy another SlySoft product or the like or use freeware solutions).

Just to clarify, I didn't imply that a person needed to purchase other Slysoft products. I did because I wished to. Back when I purchased the software I knew nothing and went the easiest route which was using AnyDVD & CloneDVD for making DVD backups. I purchased CloneCD exclusively for dealing with CDs. I can count on one hand the number of times I have used CloneCD for a DVD backup. It works great but that's not why I use it.

Let us also remember the time period that I made my purchase. I don't believe CloneCD even handled DVDs back in 2003 and, to my knowledge, the AnyDVD ripper didn't even exist in AnyDVD. Rather than using another product I just picked CloneDVD. Many changes have occurred in the world of software for making backups since 2003 so taking my statement about what software I purchased and also taking the time period into account doesn't mean the same thing now as it did back then. There are many more options than there used to be.

AnyDVD along with any shareware/freeware burning software will work beautifully making full backups of SD DVDs, HD-DVDs and BDs. That is something that nobody else can offer with the ease that Slysoft does. I believe that the ease of use should also be considered a factor in the pricing. The user really doesn't have to have any intimate knowledge. It just works. So, all you really need to make a backup is a burning program. I don't see that as a problem and I think adding any type of burning engine into AnyDVD would be ludicrous.

Another very important point, IMHO, about AnyDVD and it's value is when watching discs on your HTPC that you rented. No, I'm not talking about anything wrong. I'm just talking about watching a rental on a nice HTPC. There should be no need for me to have to rip it to my HDD. With AnyDVD you don't need to. With other products you do.

Lastly, let's not forget that the 79 Euro price only applies to AnyDVD HD and not everyone needs the HD option and it isn't a required purchase. AnyDVD is 49 Euro/76.08 USD and is still a great product. SD DVD will be around for awhile and if people actually look at the release notes you see just how much work Slysoft continually puts into handling SD DVD protections along with their work on HD-DVD and BD.

Anyone can check out the trial version. If they really like the features then they can ask themselves if it's worth it. From the answer to that question either purchase the software or not.

[DigitAl56K]

I think Slysoft's move to a stable currency was inevitable, and I don't doubt we'll see many other European based companies doing the same, if not a global movement sooner or later. In fact, I've seen as much in some other sectors. I'm a hobbyist musician, and several vendors I buy from sent out newsletters last quarter informing their customers that prices in USD were going to be rising. I think, though, that the pricing jump is a little exorbitant. When I see that (based on todays rates) AnyDVD HD is going to cost me nearly $124, my instant reaction is "No way dude!! *close browser*". I genuinely love the software, but it's too much.

We'll have to let the market sort itself out, though. Even without competition, SlySoft will find that either people are willing to pay that price or that US customers stop buying. I would suspect the latter. I don't think that this is a problem limited to SlySoft, if you look around you'll probably see it from other non-US vendors. Unfortunately, given the economy, maybe these kind of price jumps are something those of us in America are going to have to get used to. That'll be a really nasty hit in the wallet if it happens on a widespread basis..

[Ajax_Undone]

This is the biggest financial flame war I have ever seen and the Mods are participating...:p

If I were the one to start this I know it would have been deleted...:confused:

So why is it being allowed to continue...

Not to be contrary to any one person but I think its a little bias toward someone elses well being and is demeaning to all involved...

[foxyshadis]

If slysoft had forced all purchases to be converted to euros from the beginning, then there would have been no one-time price hike - just a long steady price increase to everyone outside the EU over the last two years. All this did method was save everyone outside some money for a long time. In fact it's still saving some, since the dollar has fallen even further in the last few months.

My money buys less every year. It's unfortunate, but inflation is nasty here in the US lately. I just kind of have to accept that, since I'm not in the mood to move out just yet, and do what I can to make more. (Thus my reduced presence here.... well, and a new relationship.)

[linx05]

@linx05

What has my choice of encoder got to do with this thread (btw, I now, almost exclusively use HCEnc)? Most people know that I use a range of commercial and free products and donate liberally to the donationware I use (and help support).
I was trying to work out how you justified your purchases. My thought process would be if you paid that much for *that* program, why would it be such a struggle to do the same for AnyDVD HD?

It doesn't bother me you don't want to buy AnyDVD. I couldn't care less but I'm naturally a curious person by nature and can't get my head around your thought process.

[Shinigami-Sama]

US customers stop buying

how about 'pirate haven' Canada
our money is equal now

I was going to buy anydvd this summer but with that huge price jump I just can't afford it

[setarip_old]

@Ajax_UndoneThis is the biggest financial flame war I have ever seen and the Mods are participating...
If I were the one to start this I know it would have been deleted...(I shared your) Interesting observations ;>}
Lord Acton comes to mind...

[blutach]

@Ajax_Undone and setarip_old - no-one is flaming and if they were, they would be struck.

This forum stands for people being able to express their opinions in a polite manner, within forum rules.

Please leave the modding to the moderators.

Regards

[setarip_old]

@blutach

Perhaps you can openly make something eminently clear to those of us who are participating in and/or reading this thread:

In this thread, are you, as we are, acting as a member expressing his/her opinions in a polite manner, within forum rules, or are you acting as a moderator?

I ask because it seems apparent to me that your doing both concurrently makes for inhibitive "unequal footing" if one chooses to comment on something you've said in this thread.

Your thoughts will be appreciated...

[blutach]

As a member, of course (except when making a statement of moderation - eg post 75). Am I not allowed to participate in discussion because I am a mod?

And please, gimme a break about the absolute power reference.

I am trying to have an objective, polite discussion. That is it. I have views; you all have views. Sometimes we differ. Do we all wanna be sycophants? Or is a healthy debate something we can cherish?

Because I am a mod, doesn't mean that you or anyone has to agree with my views. But all posters need to observe forum rules - without snide references to, for example, Lord Acton.

Regards

[setarip_old]

As usual, we seem to have entirely different trains of thought. Any reference to the trite "absolute power" quote would have been a far too easy "cheap shot".

Actually, my reference to Lord Acton pertains to the following quote, which I believe is quite applicable to this thread:The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks.

[blutach]

And sadly, on that one, I will say that we are getting into political discussion. Please remember R15.

Regards

[Peer van Heuen]

Do you balk at paying 100 USD for PowerDVD 7 Ultra in order to play your HD content? How about another 59 USD for the PowerDVD 8 Ultra upgrade that brings absolutely no new functionality over the existing version?

Interesting, now that you mention it ;)
Has anyone ever seen CyberLink's online store? They let you choose your currency.
If you want to pay with USD, PowerDVD 8 ultra will cost roughly 100$. If you decide to pay in Euros, the price will be 80 EUR.
(or 1,20 AUD, while we're at it :) ).
Ok, let's call this a strange anomaly...

But thinking about it - you might throw in that nobody has to upgrade PowerDVD for nearly the full price if he doesn't want to.

But then he's going to be stuck with his old discs when the next revocation comes up. HD is the best thing that could happen to cyberlink et al. It forces customers to keep buying updates.
Unless, that is, if they own AnyDVD HD - then they can play MKB5 discs with their old PowerDVD 7.1 if they like :D

But it does not work on laptops very much - but found a workaround by using a USB DVD.

No specific laptop problem known - have you contacted support?

I was going to buy anydvd this summer but with that huge price jump I just can't afford it

Wait for the next discount - Blutach has already pointed out that we frequently offer those :)

[woah!]

if you want to remove bd+ then slysoft at this time is the ONLY software that can do it. that means they can charge whatever they want to as they have no competition. if you cant afford it, dont buy it, its not a god given right you know....

will there be OS software at some point for free? maybe but until then you have 1 option really, and be thankful its not more expensive to be honest...

or you could start working on a way to break open BD+ and release it for free...

[Furiousflea]

...There are fans of the program, who just don't want to objectively discuss pricing.

So true ^

[Furiousflea]

I'll talk about price which is the subject of this thread. The reason I brought up the on the fly features is precisely because I think those features DO bring value to the product. Not everything in this world is free. While it is truly awesome and excellent that a bunch of EXTREMELY talented people have brought us extraordinary freeware products like RipIt4Me, ImgBurn, VobBlanker, PGCEdit, and others, some people want to get paid for their work. I see no problem in software developers making money on their work.

So, as a result, you have to decide what kind of value to place on a product. AnyDVD, to some people, is unique in what it can do. If your only goal is to rip discs to your hard drive, then a freeware decrypter might best suit your needs. In that case, you have absolutely no reason to spend money on a product at all. IOW, there's no value that AnyDVD brings to the table to warrant purchasing it at any price.

However, AnyDVD has features that no other program currently has. The on the fly features plus the ability to remove protections from the latest HD DVD and BD's. Therefore if you DO want to back up your HD collection, AnyDVD HD is currently the ONLY way to do that. When you're spending 25-30 USD per disc on average, the price of AnyDVD HD doesn't look so bad in order to protect that investment. Again, there's NO OTHER WAY to do so.

So what is that worth? To you, not much, as is evidenced by every post in which you bring up the price of AnyDVD and the "sudden price increase." To others, like myself, who've already spent large sums of money to upgrade to HD, the price of AnyDVD HD isn't really all that high given what we feel it does for us. Do you balk at paying 100 USD for PowerDVD 7 Ultra in order to play your HD content? How about another 59 USD for the PowerDVD 8 Ultra upgrade that brings absolutely no new functionality over the existing version? If you'd pay those prices, as some of us were forced to do, then why is the current price of AnyDVD HD such a hard thing to swallow? If you wouldn't pay those prices for PowerDVD, then your position on AnyDVD HD is understandable.

It all comes down to choice. Either you feel there's value to be had in AnyDVD or you don't. No one forces you to buy it. If you feel it's too expensive, don't buy it. As a company, I feel it's their right to charge whatever they want for it. That's the beauty of the free market. If they price it too high, people will stop buying it, and the free market will correct the situation. (I.E. they'll drop the price).

In the end, I'm not going to convince you that it's worth it and you're not going to convince me that it's not. I have no real problem with that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Yours is that they've priced it too high. Mine is that it still is worth purchasing even at the current price. Such is life.

You lay a good case, albeit with an atmosphere ala PR marketing spiel, but it does sound nice to the ear :)

Basically there are numerous programs out there that can do pretty much what AnyDVD can do - I doubt anyone is buying AnyDVD for its "on the fly" bits, or very few.

An issue I have is that, like most people who will pay for it other than the ignorant. Is that we only really want the "HD" part of AnyDVD, which is E29.99 I think...

A very reasonable price, certainly not "cheap" though!

The problem is that we can't buy this "HD" bit, we have to pay for the "SD" bit too....which more than doubles the price.

Think how many customers Slysoft must have because they are the only company that can remove BD+. We're talking serious $$$$$, they could still be making serious money at E20, and most likely nobody on their team would ever need to work again...

The amount of bad press companies like microsoft get, from the same type of people that support Slysoft to the hilt make you wonder where exactly these people stand

They're both a monopoly, and they both like to milk, they both make fantastic software (people can say what they like, but if windows didn't exist, then it suddenly appeared without all the jadedness that everyone automatically applies to them...People would be amazed)...

[Furiousflea]

@blutach

Perhaps you can openly make something eminently clear to those of us who are participating in and/or reading this thread:

In this thread, are you, as we are, acting as a member expressing his/her opinions in a polite manner, within forum rules, or are you acting as a moderator?

I ask because it seems apparent to me that your doing both concurrently makes for inhibitive "unequal footing" if one chooses to comment on something you've said in this thread.

Your thoughts will be appreciated...

This is an informal discussion, with some intellectual points being made. This isn't a court room so "seperation of powers" type thing doesn't really matter does it?

[SamuriHL]

Interesting, now that you mention it ;)
Has anyone ever seen CyberLink's online store? They let you choose your currency.
If you want to pay with USD, PowerDVD 8 ultra will cost roughly 100$. If you decide to pay in Euros, the price will be 80 EUR.
(or 1,20 AUD, while we're at it :) ).
Ok, let's call this a strange anomaly...


They are not the only ones to allow you to pick your currency. That practice is done by many international companies and it is an interesting one. Depending on the current exchange rate you may or may not make out well for your particular currency. That's the inherent trouble with a world economy based on unequal currencies. :) But that's not the problem of one company, is it? That's more of a global problem that all companies (and consumers!) face.


But thinking about it - you might throw in that nobody has to upgrade PowerDVD for nearly the full price if he doesn't want to.

But then he's going to be stuck with his old discs when the next revocation comes up. HD is the best thing that could happen to cyberlink et al. It forces customers to keep buying updates.
Unless, that is, if they own AnyDVD HD - then they can play MKB5 discs with their old PowerDVD 7.1 if they like :D


That's another interesting point. I've mentioned this possibility on the Slysoft forum before...what happens if, now that 8 is out, they decide to either no longer update 7 or delay the updates so long that it becomes impractical to use it? That would, as you say, in effect force people to make the upgrade. I have personally looked at 8 and find it brings no value to me whatsoever. But I'm concerned that if we face a situation with BD Live like we did for profile 1.1 titles that we may end up with a player that doesn't work for new titles. If they choose not to "fix" it by adding BD Live support to the 7 code line, I'm screwed, regardless of the MKB v5 issue. (That one I have confidence in you guys to fix. ;) Yet another reason to purchase AnyDVD HD IMO)

So in the end we have two programs that are related to playing back HD. We have PowerDVD Ultra which cost me 100 USD and if I wanted ANOTHER 59 USD a year later just to be able to watch my discs. And we have AnyDVD HD that costs slightly more, but, comes with lifetime upgrades and protects my investment in HD DVD and BD media. (Note...I own about 20 HD DVD's. That format is dead. AnyDVD HD is the only program that allows me to back up that investment. One set of those HD DVD's cost me 150 USD. It is worth it to me to have a program that protects that investment!) Until we find out for sure whether there will be problems playing BD Live titles in PowerDVD Ultra 7, I have no reason to shell out another 59 USD for a useless "upgrade" that brings no value to me. If they release a new MKB and don't update the 7 code line, AnyDVD HD will provide even more value by allowing me to watch new titles on an older player. IMO, the price of AnyDVD HD is worth it for me.

[SamuriHL]

You lay a good case, albeit with an atmosphere ala PR marketing spiel, but it does sound nice to the ear :)


Oh man, that hurts! :D I've never considered myself a marketing person. DOH! LOL!


Basically there are numerous programs out there that can do pretty much what AnyDVD can do - I doubt anyone is buying AnyDVD for its "on the fly" bits, or very few.


Actually, I think it's far higher than most people believe. A great many people I talk to use it for the on the fly abilities. A lot of them use it for region code removal so they can watch discs outside their region on their HTPC without messing around with it. Those people have no interest at all in ripping discs. They just want to watch their discs without any issues. The subtitle transparency may seem like a fairly useless feature at first, but, have you ever had a movie where the subtitles were just in your face and ridiculously bright? With the subtitle transparency option you can soften them a little bit and make it more bearable. A nice touch.


An issue I have is that, like most people who will pay for it other than the ignorant. Is that we only really want the "HD" part of AnyDVD, which is E29.99 I think...

A very reasonable price, certainly not "cheap" though!

The problem is that we can't buy this "HD" bit, we have to pay for the "SD" bit too....which more than doubles the price.

Think how many customers Slysoft must have because they are the only company that can remove BD+. We're talking serious $$$$$, they could still be making serious money at E20, and most likely nobody on their team would ever need to work again...


That's an interesting point. Currently you can purchase a license for the SD features of AnyDVD and leave the HD features inactive, but, the reverse isn't true. I wonder if Slysoft would ever consider changing the licensing so that you could enable just the HD functions and leave the SD features inactive? I think that's something that could be asked of them. The answer may well be no, but, it doesn't hurt to ask. At the very least it's an interesting idea for discussion.


The amount of bad press companies like microsoft get, from the same type of people that support Slysoft to the hilt make you wonder where exactly these people stand

They're both a monopoly, and they both like to milk, they both make fantastic software (people can say what they like, but if windows didn't exist, then it suddenly appeared without all the jadedness that everyone automatically applies to them...People would be amazed)...

I personally have few issues with Windows. I use it daily. I use Linux, as well. I'm the type of person who uses the right software for the job. Windows works for me quite well in most of the tasks I do. The same is true of AnyDVD HD. It does everything I need and more. I personally find a lot of value in it and if I didn't already own it, I'd be willing to purchase it at the current price. That's MY personal decision, however. I fully recognize that not everyone feels the same and that some people feel the price is too high. I don't see that as being an issue, tbh.

Look at it another way...it's similar to purchasing a car. There are plenty of cars out there that are cheap and provide basic transportation. They would do the average person just fine. However, there are luxury cars that offer options that aren't entirely necessary, but, are nice to have. Some of those options might be exclusive to that particular model of car. They all provide the same basic functionality, but, the luxury car is nicer, easier to drive perhaps, and has more features. No one balks at paying more for a Ferrari than they do for a Ford Focus, yet, the basics...moving your butt from one place to another...are the same for each vehicle. You pay more for luxury. The exact same concept is true of AnyDVD HD vs the other programs on the market. AnyDVD HD is the luxury model of decrypters. (I still don't consider it solely a decrypter, but, anyway...) It provides features other decrypters do not have. Not everyone may need those features. In that case, the basic model will do. See, it's not really so hard to understand. :) If you don't want to pay the price for the luxury car, buy one with less features. :)

[blutach]

The SD vs HD is an interesting thought. As it stands now, an SD licence (admittedly which, of course, amortises the considerable R&D over the whole product) costs E49, versus competitor pricing generally around $0.

So, while it is a bit fallacious to say the HD bit is E30, I bet if it were priced there (and you only got a HD license), sales would be very much stimulated.

Perhaps Slysoft would consider this?

Regards

[DigitAl56K]

A slight side, but I think relevant in addressing competition: How goes the community effort on BD+?

[blutach]

Please address that question in Decrypting.

Regards

[elizerrojas]

i didn't really read thru the whole thread so, just in case noone point it out, whatever happen with: faddecrypter(free and undated as much as anydvd)/ vobblanker/shrink/imgburn. no need to pay, and these programs work on any tittle outthere.

[prOnorama]

80 euro seems like a little steep to me upon first look

but

The HD market is still very much niche compared to DVD, so I guess SlySoft is betting on the fact that people (still early adaptors) who are able to shell out their money on HD content they will not mind spending the extra bit on AnyDVD.

That's fair. If Blu-Ray (or another new HD format, who knows?) is ever going to be a DVD replacement then prices will inevitably drop. Of course I guess other companies will have figured out BD+ by then, it's programmed by humans and not magic.

To make SlySoft look like the demons in this is a bit ridiculous IMO, they are a business and I'm sure they have a guy who studied Economics in their office to set a price level in conjunction with the laws of supply and demand.

PS: not an early adaptor myself, I would not buy at 80 euro, 50 euro or even 30 euro, simply because I haven't jumped on the HD band wagon yet, just like the average consumer. SlySoft caters to a niche market at the moment and should BR go mass market prices will drop.

Usually you always pay the full price for new technology (X38/48 mainboards or new Intel 45nm processors for example). SlySoft offers new technology as well (without competition) so their price setting must be measured according to the level of technology offered.

[casio7131]

out of curiosity, i plotted up the price of the ordinary (ie. non-HD) version of anydvd to see how it has changed over the years (from 2003).
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/5127/slysoft01uu6.th.png (http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slysoft01uu6.png)

[casio7131]

i found another site (http://www.ozforex.com.au/forexguru.asp) that gave monthly average forex prices, so i redid the graph of anydvd prices.
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/985/slysoft02xx2.th.png (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=slysoft02xx2.png)

[blutach]

@Ajax_Undone

Given your PM in the same terms and my reply, your (now deleted) post is definitely a R4 infringement. Struck for R4.

Please also delete the spam from your sig or risk a R5 strike.

Regards

[blutach]

@casio7131

Very interesting graphs. If I read them correctly, the price of AnyDVD (not HD) on 1/1/07 was around E30 and just before the 1/1/08 price rise, and even given the largish decline in the USD in the last quarter of 2007, it was about E35 - at least 15% higher than at the beginning of the year (25% in USD terms) - and all this before the recent big price hike.

As many posters have said (including me), it's their product and they can price it as they like. But posters arguing about the decrease in USD purchasing power should note your graphs carefully.

This is not to say that it is not value for money. To each his own in that regard.

Regards

[setarip_old]

@elizerrojas

Hi!i didn't really read thru the whole thread so...This thread is about the pricing of the AnyDVD "HD package" that is presently the ONLY program that can properly fully process BluRay DVDs...

[Beastie Boy]

When the HD formats launched, I was over the moon at the possibility of getting some real hiqh quality audio and video into my home cinema. However, the advanced copy protection schemes held me back as I prefer to stream media over my network rather than use my original discs.
Then I started reading the events leading upto the processing key being found and the possibility to rip HD media and thought I was sorted. But of course, AACS is not broken, and so such a breech is and was only temporary.
This is the reason I opted to purchase AnyDVDHD. It may stop working as the AACS codes are updated, but I know that the Slysoft team will be actively working to help me rip my movies, and when they do, I will be OK again.
I purchased AnyDVD before BD+ was cracked. I looked upon my payment as not just a purchase price, but also as a donation to help support their work in cracking BD+ and staying ahead of AACS. That made the price acceptable to me. I purchase very little software, but for me, this was worth the asking price (as there was a sale on at the time :) )

Cheers, Beastie.

[casio7131]

@casio7131

Very interesting graphs. If I read them correctly, the price of AnyDVD (not HD) on 1/1/07 was around E30 and just before the 1/1/08 price rise, and even given the largish decline in the USD in the last quarter of 2007, it was about E35 - at least 15% higher than at the beginning of the year (25% in USD terms) - and all this before the recent big price hike.

your reading seems fine to me.

[wnmnkh]

OK guys. Consider this.

1) the complexity of cracking that BD+
2) Targeting the niche market.
3) Does a lot of stuffs other than cracking copy protection.
4) Ensuring protection of your investment on those $$$$ stuffs (yes, if you spend only $$$, you are not in HD world yet)
5) Lifetime free support/upgrade (not charing $$~$$$ per a year)
6) One of very few companies which REAL developers and employees/ers directly talk to customers in the forum.

140$+ is dirt cheap IMHO (yes, thus I purchased the AnyDVD HD.) Even with competition, I highly doubt the price change due to all of those reasons.

By the way, if you think 140$+ is very expensive, think again. There are countless number of crappy softwares, which do absolutely nothing, cost about same or even more.

WinDVD, for example, probably the worst piece of software written by human kind ever, costs you 100$ bucks without tax.

Adobe Premiere Pro which I bought a few years ago, while it is actually good to use, demanding whooping 300 bucks only for a update (still better than 800 bucks... but..)

PowerDVD, while a bit more usable than WinDVD, it is slow as hell, tons of errors and problems, costs you 100$ and 60$ more if you want the latest version.

Those so called 'dvd rippers,' while do no more than free Imgburn, cost around 40~80$.

It is not a software, but Creative, selling those expensive 200$ sound cards, intendedly cripple their products' functions to force customers to buy new ones.

You know, there are so many rip-offs on software pricing, and Slysoft is in fact one of the few cases that having reasonable pricing.

[linx05]

I agree wnmnkh. There are many programs out which cost too much. Procoder was my example. Silly me was going to purchase it a couple of years ago. I came to my senses and realised for what it did, it was simply not worth the money.

And that's where AnyDVD HD is different. I have just moved into a new house this year and we are in the process of adding a HTPC to the theatre room. We will be going halves in AnyDVD HD so we can play all the latest Bluray (sigh) movies we're getting (plus my single HD DVD disc).

blutach, is there something else to your reasoning? Because I truthfully cannot work it out.

[blutach]

@linx05 - if you wish to discuss the merits of Procoder, please start a new thread. Try to stay on topic in this one.

And trying to find out my motives for buying or not buying anything is hardly objective or relevant - it is simply one person's feeling. I am trying in this discussion to stay objective - i.e. examining measurable facts which don't simply reflect how I feel.

Regards

[setarip_old]

Presently vaporware but, there is buzz about an apparently competing product, from an established firm, in the later stages of development - to be offered in the $59.95 to $79.95 range.

This probably should be taken with a grain of salt until/unless specific information is made public...

[SamuriHL]

Well, when it gets to the market, I'll take a look at it. AnyDVD HD does all I personally need and more but I'm always curious as to what the competition brings to the table. I wonder if it'll just do ripping or whether they'll do real time processing like AnyDVD HD.

EDIT: Also, it'll be interesting to see if they can handle MKB........v7. :)

[setarip_old]

@SamuriHL

Hi!

Please keep in mind that this thread is specifically a discussion about the price(s) of programs/tools that can process BluRay DVDs (presently limited to SlySoft).

As such, my curiosity is limited to how much of an impact such a competing product (should it eventually be released) might have on SlySoft's pricing...

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

I don't think a competing product will have any real impact on the pricing of AnyDVD HD when it finally arrives. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Those charts posted showing the pricing of AnyDVD didn't really do anything to surprise me. AnyDVD remained the same price from 2003 until 2007. It went up in 2007 which wasn't surprising. I think people overlook the many discount coupons that are offered and the discounts people receive when they purchase a bundle. So, the price isn't always exactly the same straight across the board. The charts didn't reflect any of that.

Lastly, I can't not reply but in reponse to blutach and FuriousFlea, as much as you both may think that some Slysoft fans can not objectively discuss pricing I have to say the same thing applies to some people who dislike Slysoft.

If people like the software and want to pay for it then they can. If they think the price is too high then no one is forcing them to buy it. *shrug*

[SamuriHL]

@SamuriHL

Hi!

Please keep in mind that this thread is specifically a discussion about the price(s) of programs/tools that can process BluRay DVDs (presently limited to SlySoft).

As such, my curiosity is limited to how much of an impact such a competing product (should it eventually be released) might have on SlySoft's pricing...

Ok, but, don't you think the features being offered at the price points you quoted will have an effect...or not? I mean, if you're talking about simple decrypting with no on the fly capabilities for that price point, then why would Slysoft react? If it has everything that AnyDVD HD has for a cheaper price(unlikely), then obviously Slysoft might react and lower the price. So yes, I think the feature set of such a program is DIRECTLY related to the pricing discussion IMNHO.

[setarip_old]

@SamuriHLdon't you think the features being offered at the price points you quoted will have an effect...or not?

That is a question of degree only - and is far too specific at this point in time.

Presently, the significant point is that, with absolutely no competition, there is no reason for SlySoft to consider reducing its price - and the question is, will the appearance of a new functional BluRay "ripper" (with or without additional bells and whistles) in the $59.95 to $79.95 range, cause SlySoft to reduce its price significantly?

if you're talking about simple decrypting with no on the fly capabilities for that price point, then why would Slysoft react?Because the PRIMARY market for BluRay-related software is software that will allow purchasers of BluRay DVDs to make viable backup copies - and any software that offers that capability will be in direct competition with SlySoft.

You can't possibly believe, can you, that unless such a competing program duplicates each AnyDVDHD "whistle and bell", that SlySoft would not be pressured to reduce its present monopolistic pricing?

[blutach]

Anybody who doesn't think that a competing product won't put price pressure on the existing one should note the prices of BDs now compared to when HD-DVD had not given up the ghost. It was HD-DVD that was keeping BD prices down and vice versa.

Now, they didn't need to be exactly the same in terms of features or limitations - no-one could say they were. But they were sufficiently similar to put price pressure on each other.

This will inevitably happen to Any HD DVD if a similar product (i.e. one with BD(+) ripping capabilities) arrives. It's Milton Friedman 101, I'm afraid.

Regards

[SamuriHL]

It MIGHT have an impact on pricing, maybe. However, according to your theory, if we go back to my car example of pricing, there should be a downward trend on pricing in Ferrari's because a cheap Ford Focus exists and does "pretty much the same thing." How's that working out for us? Can I go pick up a cheap Ferrari now?

[blutach]

Here's one - don't like the colour though :D :D :D

http://www.channel4.com/4car/gl/gallery/gallery/456/1

Regards

[SamuriHL]

Ewww! That's one UGLY car!! :D

Back on topic, though, the point I was making is that there are potentially different markets being served. If you have a "low end" decrypter, that might fit the needs of one client base whereas some people would pay extra for the features that you deem unnecessary and frivolous in AnyDVD HD. It all depends on your target audience. But, it's difficult to know what Slysoft would do when a competitor comes out with a product because that hasn't happened yet. If their sales are massively affected, then sure, I could see them lowering the price. That's obvious. But if people decide that AnyDVD HD is a better product and sales are not affected, then why would they drop the price? So this is one of those "we'll have to wait and see" situations.

[blutach]

I think we are in heated agreement! My contention is that the competing product needs to be sufficiently similar (see post 108) - i.e. have BD+ ripping capabilities to put price pressure on.

You can't compare the Ford (non BD decrypter) vs Ferrari (AnyDVD HD) as they serve different markets (as you and others say). However, in the non-HD version, you might be able to make a very valid comparison, since very similar competing products exist at much lower price points).

And, what do you expect for 5,000 quid?

Regards

[SamuriHL]

I would agree that if a competing product was sufficiently good as to rival AnyDVD HD, then that could put some pressure on them to lower the price. There is another point that I haven't seen brought up yet, though. The competing product needs to do more than release a product with these capabilities. It has to show that they can keep up. Slysoft is fairly quick to release new versions when problems are found or protections are changed. BD+ is a moving target at the moment as we've seen on the latest discs. It's one thing to release a product at a lower price that can handle today's titles, but, quite another to show your customers that you can handle tomorrow's titles just as quickly and easily. Slysoft has a proven track record in that area. That might be worth the extra cost to some people. Especially when you consider that those are lifetime upgrades.

Let's take your comparison of AnyDVD non-HD vs competing products at lower price points. Even before AnyDVD HD came out, AnyDVD was competing against free products. Yet, somehow, they were able to build a fairly large market. How is that possible? If a free product that roughly does the same thing is available, why would anyone CHOOSE to purchase a product? :) They perceive value in that paid for product. When you pay for a product, you expect a certain level of service. That's NOT to suggest or say that a free product can't have the same level of service! It's more of a perception thing. We all know the freeware products for SD discs were updated just as regularly as AnyDVD to defeat new protections and fix bugs. However, when you purchase a product, that level of support is guaranteed. With a free product, sure, it's likely that it's going to be supported, but, what if it isn't? So, I think support has quite a bit to do with it. Slysoft has shown themselves to listen to their customers. That adds value to their product. But again, there are also differing markets here. Someone who doesn't need or want support can get by just fine using a freeware product. They're not interested in paying for something they can get for free. That's fine. Others want the security of knowing that if they run into problems, they can be guaranteed to get help. Just something to consider.

Well, it IS a cheap Ferrari, I'll grant you that! :D

[datman]

All I have to say is AnyDVD is the best money I ever spent on software. I hope they make a few bucks. I also hope they will develope a BD,HD,DVD player program with some of that money.